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Posted to docs-dev@perl.apache.org by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org> on 2002/03/05 15:25:56 UTC
search box
I don't care about the javascript. I go to google 20 or 30 times a day and
it's nice that I can just type and hit enter. If I really cared, I'd just
add a google search box to my browser, I suppose, and save the trip to
google in the first place. And I doubt having to click on the search box
will cause anyone any grief at the mod_perl site.
I do think it's a bit much to argue that because some javascript is bad all
javascript is bad - people that think that way can just turn off javascript
in their client. I think we will find that the CSS stuff is probably less
supported than a simple focus() javascript bit. But I would support a
pop-up window saying we are a pop-up window free site.
I do think standard form buttons are a bit big and ugly. If that search
box is going to be on the same line as the other widgets I agree it would
be nice to make it look the same.
Sorry if I missed something, but why not use <input type="image" ...>
submit button? Wouldn't that make it possible to make the search form look
more like the other links on that same line?
There was also talk of having an option to limit the search to just that
area of the document tree, which I've implemented on the search page, but
we would need a way to pick the type of search on each page, too. That
either means a checkbox, or a second submit button. Might be able to use
two submit buttons as graphic images in a more attractive (less obtrusive)
way than a real check box and a real submit form button.
BTW -- is the larger fonts (and thus the wider search input field) on NS4
just a fact of life?
Oh, I just resized in NS4 and see that the site still falls apart -- that
is all the text in the content section ends up in a single narrow long
column. Was that decided that is also a fact of life? Maybe a solution
there it so use javascript -- reload on resize?
--
Bill Moseley
mailto:moseley@hank.org
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RE: search box
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
:: > Huh??? Can you back up that statement?
::
:: heh :) I'm talking about winFU users mainly, I saw quite a few at
:: "work". Unfortunately a majority of them are clueless and don't even
:: know they can resize windows.
::
:: So i guess it was blatant to name it a fact, so please
:: s/fact/personal observation/ multiplied by the "fact" that there are
:: many clueless winFU users out there. ;) Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Stas, please don't misunderstand me, I wasn't challenging you. I was
hoping that you COULD have pointed me to evidence of this behaviour. I
could have used that to back up a potential argument here.
:: I guess I'm very wrong if we are talking about mod_perl
:: users. It's hard
:: to be clueless and mod_perl user at the same time. ;)
+1 :-)
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
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Re: search box
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
> :: Also consider the fact that most people
> :: don't resize their browsers. Usually they minimize/maximize
> :: them only.
>
> Huh??? Can you back up that statement?
heh :) I'm talking about winFU users mainly, I saw quite a few at
"work". Unfortunately a majority of them are clueless and don't even
know they can resize windows.
So i guess it was blatant to name it a fact, so please
s/fact/personal observation/ multiplied by the "fact" that there are
many clueless winFU users out there. ;) Correct me if I'm wrong here.
I guess I'm very wrong if we are talking about mod_perl users. It's hard
to be clueless and mod_perl user at the same time. ;)
Then I'm simply wrong ;)
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RE: search box
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
:: Also consider the fact that most people
:: don't resize their browsers. Usually they minimize/maximize
:: them only.
Huh??? Can you back up that statement?
:: I'm -1 on using @import trick because I don't like the idea
:: of maintaining two versions of a big file like style.css is.
:: It also requires JS to figure out the useragent. If many
:: people complain we will reconsider I guess.
-1 on @import here too.
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
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Re: search box
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> At 03:34 PM 03/05/02 +0100, Thomas Klausner wrote:
>
>>On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 06:25:56AM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:
>>
>>>Oh, I just resized in NS4 and see that the site still falls apart -- that
>>>is all the text in the content section ends up in a single narrow long
>>>column. Was that decided that is also a fact of life? Maybe a solution
>>>there it so use javascript -- reload on resize?
>>>
>>Thats a bug in NS4. I don't think it's a good idea to add the reload on
>>resize, thats going to affect all users (some pages are quite long and could
>>take a while to reload, and it's causing unneeded traffic), just to solve
>>a problem that's caused by someone else (i.e. NS4).
>>
>
> Sorry, I was joking about the reload on resize. I forgot to add ;).
>
> So it's acceptable behavior?
>
> That bug is from using CSS to format. Are there CSS tweaks that could
> solve that in NS4? That is, could we use the @import trick to load a
> different CSS for NS4 that would avoid or reduce the problem?
Sorry, I don't know of any. Also consider the fact that most people
don't resize their browsers. Usually they minimize/maximize them only.
Of course I'm not against a better solution :)
> Or have we decided that the number of people using NS4 *and* resizing will
> be so small that we don't need to worry about it?
I'm -1 on using @import trick because I don't like the idea of
maintaining two versions of a big file like style.css is. It also requires
JS to figure out the useragent.
If many people complain we will reconsider I guess.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
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Re: search box
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 03:34 PM 03/05/02 +0100, Thomas Klausner wrote:
>On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 06:25:56AM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:
>> Oh, I just resized in NS4 and see that the site still falls apart -- that
>> is all the text in the content section ends up in a single narrow long
>> column. Was that decided that is also a fact of life? Maybe a solution
>> there it so use javascript -- reload on resize?
>
>Thats a bug in NS4. I don't think it's a good idea to add the reload on
>resize, thats going to affect all users (some pages are quite long and could
>take a while to reload, and it's causing unneeded traffic), just to solve
>a problem that's caused by someone else (i.e. NS4).
Sorry, I was joking about the reload on resize. I forgot to add ;).
So it's acceptable behavior?
That bug is from using CSS to format. Are there CSS tweaks that could
solve that in NS4? That is, could we use the @import trick to load a
different CSS for NS4 that would avoid or reduce the problem?
Or have we decided that the number of people using NS4 *and* resizing will
be so small that we don't need to worry about it?
Thanks,
--
Bill Moseley
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Re: search box
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
> :: Also please check that the look and feel hasn't changed on
> :: your favorite
> :: browsers.
>
> Checked with:
>
> IE 6 on Win2K --- +1
> NS 6 on Win2K --- +1
> IE5 on Mac (OS9) --- +1
> NS 4.73 on Mac (OS9) --- +1
> Mozilla 0.9.2.1 on Linux (7.2) --- (ok but the "Welcome to the mod_perl
> world" title bar is condensed into a small box whereas, in all my other
> tests, it spans the available width)
Should be OK with the latest mozilla. I've
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 and
it's fine.
> Galeon 0.11.3 on Linux (7.2) --- same as Mozilla
> NS 4.78 on Linux (7.2) --- +1
>
> I'd say we'd got a good, graceful site here...
;)
_____________________________________________________________________
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http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
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RE: search box
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
:: Also please check that the look and feel hasn't changed on
:: your favorite
:: browsers.
Checked with:
IE 6 on Win2K --- +1
NS 6 on Win2K --- +1
IE5 on Mac (OS9) --- +1
NS 4.73 on Mac (OS9) --- +1
Mozilla 0.9.2.1 on Linux (7.2) --- (ok but the "Welcome to the mod_perl
world" title bar is condensed into a small box whereas, in all my other
tests, it spans the available width)
Galeon 0.11.3 on Linux (7.2) --- same as Mozilla
NS 4.78 on Linux (7.2) --- +1
I'd say we'd got a good, graceful site here...
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
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Re: search box
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
> :: Let's simply try to use autofocus and if people complain we
> :: will remove
> :: it. Though I agree with Allan that we need to use named
> :: property, rather
> :: than numerical order
> ::
> :: onLoad="document.search_form.query.focus()"
>
> +1
Done. http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/
Also please check that the look and feel hasn't changed on your favorite
browsers. I've moved the start of the form to the search template. It
seems that it doesn't break anything. I've placed the <form ...> just
before the table formatting the search widget. Now we don't have a
duplication of the same thing in the templates 'page' and 'index'.
Bill, I'll take care of the actual search soonish. Luckily the design
issues are orthogonal to the search's functionality.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
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RE: search box
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
:: ok, let's not argue about this and concentrate on more
:: important thing.
Well said.
:: Let's simply try to use autofocus and if people complain we
:: will remove
:: it. Though I agree with Allan that we need to use named
:: property, rather
:: than numerical order
::
:: onLoad="document.search_form.query.focus()"
+1
:: Because there are browser where using the image as a submit button,
:: breaks the 'Enter to Submit' feature. Again if you think we
:: want to give
:: it a try, let's do it.
-1
:: I suggest to always use the current context for searching
:: and to have no
:: checkboxes on every page. And display all the options on the
:: dedicated
:: search page.
+1
:: It may confuse a few people in first place, but if we
:: clearly state on
:: the results page that 'You have searched FOO section', followed by a
:: search form with all the options in it, users will learn
:: fast that if
:: they want to have a global search they can do it from / or
:: by going to
:: the search page.
+1 I think this is logical and intuitive enough (and I'm quite picky
:-) ).
:: To me now it's a fact of life. Our goal is to make the site
:: look great in modern and/or properly implemented browsers
:: and be usable in old and/or broken browsers. Currently NS4
:: is quite usable. It's definitely not pretty.
+1 How much longer will NS4 survive anyhow?
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
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Re: search box
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> I don't care about the javascript. I go to google 20 or 30 times a day and
> it's nice that I can just type and hit enter. If I really cared, I'd just
> add a google search box to my browser, I suppose, and save the trip to
> google in the first place. And I doubt having to click on the search box
> will cause anyone any grief at the mod_perl site.
>
> I do think it's a bit much to argue that because some javascript is bad all
> javascript is bad - people that think that way can just turn off javascript
> in their client. I think we will find that the CSS stuff is probably less
> supported than a simple focus() javascript bit. But I would support a
> pop-up window saying we are a pop-up window free site.
ok, let's not argue about this and concentrate on more important thing.
Let's simply try to use autofocus and if people complain we will remove
it. Though I agree with Allan that we need to use named property, rather
than numerical order
onLoad="document.search_form.query.focus()"
> I do think standard form buttons are a bit big and ugly. If that search
> box is going to be on the same line as the other widgets I agree it would
> be nice to make it look the same.
>
> Sorry if I missed something, but why not use <input type="image" ...>
> submit button? Wouldn't that make it possible to make the search form look
> more like the other links on that same line?
Because there are browser where using the image as a submit button,
breaks the 'Enter to Submit' feature. Again if you think we want to give
it a try, let's do it.
in that case we need a button which looks the same as the prev|next
buttons. let's say that the query is white bg, so the search button
should use the dark bg. Anybody?
> There was also talk of having an option to limit the search to just that
> area of the document tree, which I've implemented on the search page, but
> we would need a way to pick the type of search on each page, too. That
> either means a checkbox, or a second submit button. Might be able to use
> two submit buttons as graphic images in a more attractive (less obtrusive)
> way than a real check box and a real submit form button.
I suggest to always use the current context for searching and to have no
checkboxes on every page. And display all the options on the dedicated
search page.
It may confuse a few people in first place, but if we clearly state on
the results page that 'You have searched FOO section', followed by a
search form with all the options in it, users will learn fast that if
they want to have a global search they can do it from / or by going to
the search page.
I'm +1 on this logic.
> BTW -- is the larger fonts (and thus the wider search input field) on NS4
> just a fact of life?
looks like it. you could try to reduce the fonts in the preference.
> Oh, I just resized in NS4 and see that the site still falls apart -- that
> is all the text in the content section ends up in a single narrow long
> column. Was that decided that is also a fact of life? Maybe a solution
> there it so use javascript -- reload on resize?
To me now it's a fact of life. Our goal is to make the site look great
in modern and/or properly implemented browsers and
be usable in old and/or broken browsers. Currently NS4
is quite usable. It's definitely not pretty.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
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Re: search box
Posted by Thomas Klausner <do...@zsi.at>.
Hi!
On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 06:25:56AM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:
> Oh, I just resized in NS4 and see that the site still falls apart -- that
> is all the text in the content section ends up in a single narrow long
> column. Was that decided that is also a fact of life? Maybe a solution
> there it so use javascript -- reload on resize?
Thats a bug in NS4. I don't think it's a good idea to add the reload on
resize, thats going to affect all users (some pages are quite long and could
take a while to reload, and it's causing unneeded traffic), just to solve
a problem that's caused by someone else (i.e. NS4).
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