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Posted to users@wicket.apache.org by Gaetan Zoritchak <g....@moncoachfinance.com> on 2011/10/07 00:27:55 UTC
Community tools
First of all, I love wicket. I think it's a very effective framework,
with an active community.
But ...
I regret that some tools reduce its visibility. I think, in particular, the
mode of exchange based on a mailing list is quite outdated. This mailing
list which requires subscription limits the number
of participants. Moreover, research on old messages are poorly referenced. I
have recently experienced it one more time during the migration of my
project on Wicket 1.5. The solution to my problem has already been discussed
and resolved but it took me a long time to find it. Why not drop this
mailing list and discuss all questions
onStackOverflow. The business community would be more visible.
Source management and bugs are also outdated. The version on github is much
better.
My 2 cents,
Gaetan
Re: Community tools
Posted by nino martinez wael <ni...@gmail.com>.
+1, totally agree this is a big plus for me, also I can answer mails
on my phone easy..
2011/10/7 Josh Kamau <jo...@gmail.com>:
> I like the mail. Atleast i can get the answers even on my not so smart
> phone.
>
> Josh.
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Chris Colman
> <ch...@stepaheadsoftware.com>wrote:
>
>> >Source management and bugs are also outdated. The version on github is
>> much
>> >better.
>>
>> I recently had to get up to speed with github. Not sure what all the
>> fuss is about. The learning curve was about 20x that of Subversion and
>> I'm still not confident about how to do things or whether what I'm doing
>> is the 'right' thing to be doing. Subversion on the other hand is really
>> easy to understand (and most developers already know it) and even though
>> it has 'theoretical' shortcomings compared to a distributed VCS like git
>> in practice I never saw any difference in performance or usage apart
>> from git being a lot 'weirder' ;)
>>
>> >
>> >My 2 cents,
>> >
>> >Gaetan
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: Community tools
Posted by manuelbarzi <ma...@gmail.com>.
>> So what is the best way (official? permanent?) to link to a previous
>> response?
>
> Link to a posting on Nabble or one of the other mailinglist-aggregators out there perhaps? :)
and keep patience while "somentity" is re-implementing stacko, making
it os, waiting it's fully established and tested, convincing apache to
adopt it, and finally saying aleluya.
here some "good" intentions on the network, may worth attending on flowing time:
http://www.webappers.com/2010/02/26/stack-overflow-like-open-source-qa-systems-for-download/
http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/30269/is-there-any-open-source-code-we-can-get-similar-to-stackoverflow
http://code.google.com/p/stacked/
http://code.google.com/p/cnprog/
http://www.osqa.net/ (this one seems to convince... a bit?)
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RE: Community tools
Posted by Wilhelmsen Tor Iver <To...@arrive.no>.
> So what is the best way (official? permanent?) to link to a previous
> response?
Link to a posting on Nabble or one of the other mailinglist-aggregators out there perhaps? :)
- Tor Iver
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Re: Community tools
Posted by Gaetan Zoritchak <g....@moncoachfinance.com>.
2011/10/7 Clint Checketts <ch...@gmail.com>
> So what is the best way (official? permanent?) to link to a previous
> response?
>
> In 6 months when someone has a similar question, what is the official way
> to
> link to previous answers? Equally, what is the best way to improve those
> answers if the answer 6 months back worked at that time, but now is invalid
> and a 'bad practice' due to wicket improvements?
>
> That is part of the problem. On the wiki, the pages are not tagged
WICKET-1.4 or WICKET-1.5 so you don't know if you can use them.
Is's the same with mail.
The avantage with a Q&A tool is that you tag, rename and edit the question
and the answers. At the end you have a good question with the best answer
and no duplicates. When you search something you just have to look at the
tags to know if you can use the answer.
> Folks so rarely use the mailing list archives (
> http://wicket.apache.org/help/email.html), (not easily searched!) I doubt
> that is the solution.
>
> -Clint
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:32 AM, manuelbarzi <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > it sounds great, but why not fully concentrate on wicket. apache will
> > adopt whatever magic-solution asa it'll be licence compliant, and
> > affordable by resources and directives.
> >
> > for the moment this mailing list has been a very successful machine,
> > and still has much to bring. outside, whatever wrapper (wicket-based
> > or not, may be assembled to pull all posts, order and make them as far
> > confortable-searcheable as low-patience eager-brains demand).
> >
> > as other expressed: markmail and nabble are pretty enough, and
> > managing issues by mail - on smart or not phones - is simply a
> > pleasure.
> > .
> >
>
Re: Community tools
Posted by Clint Checketts <ch...@gmail.com>.
So what is the best way (official? permanent?) to link to a previous
response?
In 6 months when someone has a similar question, what is the official way to
link to previous answers? Equally, what is the best way to improve those
answers if the answer 6 months back worked at that time, but now is invalid
and a 'bad practice' due to wicket improvements?
Folks so rarely use the mailing list archives (
http://wicket.apache.org/help/email.html), (not easily searched!) I doubt
that is the solution.
-Clint
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:32 AM, manuelbarzi <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> it sounds great, but why not fully concentrate on wicket. apache will
> adopt whatever magic-solution asa it'll be licence compliant, and
> affordable by resources and directives.
>
> for the moment this mailing list has been a very successful machine,
> and still has much to bring. outside, whatever wrapper (wicket-based
> or not, may be assembled to pull all posts, order and make them as far
> confortable-searcheable as low-patience eager-brains demand).
>
> as other expressed: markmail and nabble are pretty enough, and
> managing issues by mail - on smart or not phones - is simply a
> pleasure.
> .
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Josh Kamau <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On a light note:
> >
> > we can build our version of stackoverflow as a Q/A for wicket. We can
> build
> > it in wicket and let everyone access the code. We can use it as a demo
> > wicket application.
> >
> > Josh.
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Gaetan Zoritchak <
> > g.zoritchak@moncoachfinance.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I fully understand the risk of relying on an external and uncontrolled
> >> party. The best of breed solution would be to have SO like a Q & A
> >> for wicket based on an open source implementation like Bert mentionned.
> >>
> >> For the mailing list, I think the advantage of reading the messages on
> his
> >> phone is less important than the gate of a partially closed system that
> >> requires a subscription by email. See on
> >> http://softwareandsilicon.com/chapter:2 # toc2 "- Freedom of Access
> and
> >> - Weak Group Identity"
> >>
> >> Markmail:
> >> The traffic is constantly increasing from 1999 until late 2009 early
> >> 2010 before being reduced significantly. I think the reason is due to
> the
> >> tool a little bit old. Even if the interface allows to search for
> messages,
> >> ergonomics and the quality of responses is not equivalent to what is
> >> available on intenet today.
> >>
> >> My point is not to criticize but to point out that this is negative for
> the
> >> adoption of wicket. Today when I choose a technology for a project, even
> >> though I prefer Wicket for its design, I have to "sell" the framework
> to a
> >> team that does not necessarily find it very sexy.
> >>
> >> Gaetan
> >>
> >>
> >> 2011/10/7 Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>
> >>
> >> > The biggest issue with moving to Stack Overflow is that we deliver our
> >> > community to an external party which can do anything with the
> >> > questions, show stupid ads, etc. Have no mistake: stack exchange is a
> >> > commercial venture. So one criterium is to be able to pull the plug on
> >> > it whenever it goes sour. While the content of stack overflow is
> >> > publicly available, it is not licensed with an Apache friendly license
> >> > (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/). This issue was the
> >> > biggest hurdle SO needs to take to become a viable alternative for the
> >> > user list at Apache.
> >> >
> >> > As for this list not being visible, you can always shop around for
> >> > list archive providers. Nabble has a nice forum like interface, Mark
> >> > mail provides awesome search tooling.
> >> >
> >> > Martijn
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Bert <ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > I had a discussion about this with martin dashorst when we meet this
> >> > > year at a conference. Apparently, he does like the idea of a SO like
> >> > > Q&A site for wicket. But wicket being an Apache project, there are
> >> > > certain requirement if i recall our discussion correctly.
> >> > >
> >> > > One of the problems is the hosting of such a side. The mailing list,
> >> > > bugtracker, wicki,... are all hosted and maintained by the apache
> >> > > admins. Getting a new tool into there is not easy. One could host a
> >> > > solution outside of apache, but this opens questions about long term
> >> > > support of the infrastructure, privacy issues and so forth.
> >> > >
> >> > > There are a few opensource implementations available:
> >> > >
> >> > > http://gitorious.org/shapado (used by debian at
> http://ask.debian.net/
> >> )
> >> > > http://www.osqa.net/
> >> > >
> >> > > I do like the SO style (never been a fan of mailing lists), but on
> the
> >> > > other side registering here is not much of a hassle.
> >> > >
> >> > > My 2 cent
> >> > > Bert
> >> > >
> >> > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 07:25, Josh Kamau <jo...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >> I like the mail. Atleast i can get the answers even on my not so
> smart
> >> > >> phone.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Josh.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Chris Colman
> >> > >> <ch...@stepaheadsoftware.com>wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> >Source management and bugs are also outdated. The version on
> github
> >> is
> >> > >>> much
> >> > >>> >better.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> I recently had to get up to speed with github. Not sure what all
> the
> >> > >>> fuss is about. The learning curve was about 20x that of Subversion
> >> and
> >> > >>> I'm still not confident about how to do things or whether what I'm
> >> > doing
> >> > >>> is the 'right' thing to be doing. Subversion on the other hand is
> >> > really
> >> > >>> easy to understand (and most developers already know it) and even
> >> > though
> >> > >>> it has 'theoretical' shortcomings compared to a distributed VCS
> like
> >> > git
> >> > >>> in practice I never saw any difference in performance or usage
> apart
> >> > >>> from git being a lot 'weirder' ;)
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> >
> >> > >>> >My 2 cents,
> >> > >>> >
> >> > >>> >Gaetan
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> >> > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best:
> http://wicketinaction.com
> >> >
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: Community tools
Posted by manuelbarzi <ma...@gmail.com>.
it sounds great, but why not fully concentrate on wicket. apache will
adopt whatever magic-solution asa it'll be licence compliant, and
affordable by resources and directives.
for the moment this mailing list has been a very successful machine,
and still has much to bring. outside, whatever wrapper (wicket-based
or not, may be assembled to pull all posts, order and make them as far
confortable-searcheable as low-patience eager-brains demand).
as other expressed: markmail and nabble are pretty enough, and
managing issues by mail - on smart or not phones - is simply a
pleasure.
.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Josh Kamau <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On a light note:
>
> we can build our version of stackoverflow as a Q/A for wicket. We can build
> it in wicket and let everyone access the code. We can use it as a demo
> wicket application.
>
> Josh.
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Gaetan Zoritchak <
> g.zoritchak@moncoachfinance.com> wrote:
>
>> I fully understand the risk of relying on an external and uncontrolled
>> party. The best of breed solution would be to have SO like a Q & A
>> for wicket based on an open source implementation like Bert mentionned.
>>
>> For the mailing list, I think the advantage of reading the messages on his
>> phone is less important than the gate of a partially closed system that
>> requires a subscription by email. See on
>> http://softwareandsilicon.com/chapter:2 # toc2 "- Freedom of Access and
>> - Weak Group Identity"
>>
>> Markmail:
>> The traffic is constantly increasing from 1999 until late 2009 early
>> 2010 before being reduced significantly. I think the reason is due to the
>> tool a little bit old. Even if the interface allows to search for messages,
>> ergonomics and the quality of responses is not equivalent to what is
>> available on intenet today.
>>
>> My point is not to criticize but to point out that this is negative for the
>> adoption of wicket. Today when I choose a technology for a project, even
>> though I prefer Wicket for its design, I have to "sell" the framework to a
>> team that does not necessarily find it very sexy.
>>
>> Gaetan
>>
>>
>> 2011/10/7 Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>
>>
>> > The biggest issue with moving to Stack Overflow is that we deliver our
>> > community to an external party which can do anything with the
>> > questions, show stupid ads, etc. Have no mistake: stack exchange is a
>> > commercial venture. So one criterium is to be able to pull the plug on
>> > it whenever it goes sour. While the content of stack overflow is
>> > publicly available, it is not licensed with an Apache friendly license
>> > (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/). This issue was the
>> > biggest hurdle SO needs to take to become a viable alternative for the
>> > user list at Apache.
>> >
>> > As for this list not being visible, you can always shop around for
>> > list archive providers. Nabble has a nice forum like interface, Mark
>> > mail provides awesome search tooling.
>> >
>> > Martijn
>> >
>> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Bert <ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > I had a discussion about this with martin dashorst when we meet this
>> > > year at a conference. Apparently, he does like the idea of a SO like
>> > > Q&A site for wicket. But wicket being an Apache project, there are
>> > > certain requirement if i recall our discussion correctly.
>> > >
>> > > One of the problems is the hosting of such a side. The mailing list,
>> > > bugtracker, wicki,... are all hosted and maintained by the apache
>> > > admins. Getting a new tool into there is not easy. One could host a
>> > > solution outside of apache, but this opens questions about long term
>> > > support of the infrastructure, privacy issues and so forth.
>> > >
>> > > There are a few opensource implementations available:
>> > >
>> > > http://gitorious.org/shapado (used by debian at http://ask.debian.net/
>> )
>> > > http://www.osqa.net/
>> > >
>> > > I do like the SO style (never been a fan of mailing lists), but on the
>> > > other side registering here is not much of a hassle.
>> > >
>> > > My 2 cent
>> > > Bert
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 07:25, Josh Kamau <jo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >> I like the mail. Atleast i can get the answers even on my not so smart
>> > >> phone.
>> > >>
>> > >> Josh.
>> > >>
>> > >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Chris Colman
>> > >> <ch...@stepaheadsoftware.com>wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> >Source management and bugs are also outdated. The version on github
>> is
>> > >>> much
>> > >>> >better.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I recently had to get up to speed with github. Not sure what all the
>> > >>> fuss is about. The learning curve was about 20x that of Subversion
>> and
>> > >>> I'm still not confident about how to do things or whether what I'm
>> > doing
>> > >>> is the 'right' thing to be doing. Subversion on the other hand is
>> > really
>> > >>> easy to understand (and most developers already know it) and even
>> > though
>> > >>> it has 'theoretical' shortcomings compared to a distributed VCS like
>> > git
>> > >>> in practice I never saw any difference in performance or usage apart
>> > >>> from git being a lot 'weirder' ;)
>> > >>>
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> >My 2 cents,
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> >Gaetan
>> > >>>
>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Community tools
Posted by Josh Kamau <jo...@gmail.com>.
On a light note:
we can build our version of stackoverflow as a Q/A for wicket. We can build
it in wicket and let everyone access the code. We can use it as a demo
wicket application.
Josh.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Gaetan Zoritchak <
g.zoritchak@moncoachfinance.com> wrote:
> I fully understand the risk of relying on an external and uncontrolled
> party. The best of breed solution would be to have SO like a Q & A
> for wicket based on an open source implementation like Bert mentionned.
>
> For the mailing list, I think the advantage of reading the messages on his
> phone is less important than the gate of a partially closed system that
> requires a subscription by email. See on
> http://softwareandsilicon.com/chapter:2 # toc2 "- Freedom of Access and
> - Weak Group Identity"
>
> Markmail:
> The traffic is constantly increasing from 1999 until late 2009 early
> 2010 before being reduced significantly. I think the reason is due to the
> tool a little bit old. Even if the interface allows to search for messages,
> ergonomics and the quality of responses is not equivalent to what is
> available on intenet today.
>
> My point is not to criticize but to point out that this is negative for the
> adoption of wicket. Today when I choose a technology for a project, even
> though I prefer Wicket for its design, I have to "sell" the framework to a
> team that does not necessarily find it very sexy.
>
> Gaetan
>
>
> 2011/10/7 Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>
>
> > The biggest issue with moving to Stack Overflow is that we deliver our
> > community to an external party which can do anything with the
> > questions, show stupid ads, etc. Have no mistake: stack exchange is a
> > commercial venture. So one criterium is to be able to pull the plug on
> > it whenever it goes sour. While the content of stack overflow is
> > publicly available, it is not licensed with an Apache friendly license
> > (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/). This issue was the
> > biggest hurdle SO needs to take to become a viable alternative for the
> > user list at Apache.
> >
> > As for this list not being visible, you can always shop around for
> > list archive providers. Nabble has a nice forum like interface, Mark
> > mail provides awesome search tooling.
> >
> > Martijn
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Bert <ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I had a discussion about this with martin dashorst when we meet this
> > > year at a conference. Apparently, he does like the idea of a SO like
> > > Q&A site for wicket. But wicket being an Apache project, there are
> > > certain requirement if i recall our discussion correctly.
> > >
> > > One of the problems is the hosting of such a side. The mailing list,
> > > bugtracker, wicki,... are all hosted and maintained by the apache
> > > admins. Getting a new tool into there is not easy. One could host a
> > > solution outside of apache, but this opens questions about long term
> > > support of the infrastructure, privacy issues and so forth.
> > >
> > > There are a few opensource implementations available:
> > >
> > > http://gitorious.org/shapado (used by debian at http://ask.debian.net/
> )
> > > http://www.osqa.net/
> > >
> > > I do like the SO style (never been a fan of mailing lists), but on the
> > > other side registering here is not much of a hassle.
> > >
> > > My 2 cent
> > > Bert
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 07:25, Josh Kamau <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >> I like the mail. Atleast i can get the answers even on my not so smart
> > >> phone.
> > >>
> > >> Josh.
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Chris Colman
> > >> <ch...@stepaheadsoftware.com>wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> >Source management and bugs are also outdated. The version on github
> is
> > >>> much
> > >>> >better.
> > >>>
> > >>> I recently had to get up to speed with github. Not sure what all the
> > >>> fuss is about. The learning curve was about 20x that of Subversion
> and
> > >>> I'm still not confident about how to do things or whether what I'm
> > doing
> > >>> is the 'right' thing to be doing. Subversion on the other hand is
> > really
> > >>> easy to understand (and most developers already know it) and even
> > though
> > >>> it has 'theoretical' shortcomings compared to a distributed VCS like
> > git
> > >>> in practice I never saw any difference in performance or usage apart
> > >>> from git being a lot 'weirder' ;)
> > >>>
> > >>> >
> > >>> >My 2 cents,
> > >>> >
> > >>> >Gaetan
> > >>>
> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: Community tools
Posted by Gaetan Zoritchak <g....@moncoachfinance.com>.
I fully understand the risk of relying on an external and uncontrolled
party. The best of breed solution would be to have SO like a Q & A
for wicket based on an open source implementation like Bert mentionned.
For the mailing list, I think the advantage of reading the messages on his
phone is less important than the gate of a partially closed system that
requires a subscription by email. See on
http://softwareandsilicon.com/chapter:2 # toc2 "- Freedom of Access and
- Weak Group Identity"
Markmail:
The traffic is constantly increasing from 1999 until late 2009 early
2010 before being reduced significantly. I think the reason is due to the
tool a little bit old. Even if the interface allows to search for messages,
ergonomics and the quality of responses is not equivalent to what is
available on intenet today.
My point is not to criticize but to point out that this is negative for the
adoption of wicket. Today when I choose a technology for a project, even
though I prefer Wicket for its design, I have to "sell" the framework to a
team that does not necessarily find it very sexy.
Gaetan
2011/10/7 Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>
> The biggest issue with moving to Stack Overflow is that we deliver our
> community to an external party which can do anything with the
> questions, show stupid ads, etc. Have no mistake: stack exchange is a
> commercial venture. So one criterium is to be able to pull the plug on
> it whenever it goes sour. While the content of stack overflow is
> publicly available, it is not licensed with an Apache friendly license
> (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/). This issue was the
> biggest hurdle SO needs to take to become a viable alternative for the
> user list at Apache.
>
> As for this list not being visible, you can always shop around for
> list archive providers. Nabble has a nice forum like interface, Mark
> mail provides awesome search tooling.
>
> Martijn
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Bert <ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I had a discussion about this with martin dashorst when we meet this
> > year at a conference. Apparently, he does like the idea of a SO like
> > Q&A site for wicket. But wicket being an Apache project, there are
> > certain requirement if i recall our discussion correctly.
> >
> > One of the problems is the hosting of such a side. The mailing list,
> > bugtracker, wicki,... are all hosted and maintained by the apache
> > admins. Getting a new tool into there is not easy. One could host a
> > solution outside of apache, but this opens questions about long term
> > support of the infrastructure, privacy issues and so forth.
> >
> > There are a few opensource implementations available:
> >
> > http://gitorious.org/shapado (used by debian at http://ask.debian.net/)
> > http://www.osqa.net/
> >
> > I do like the SO style (never been a fan of mailing lists), but on the
> > other side registering here is not much of a hassle.
> >
> > My 2 cent
> > Bert
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 07:25, Josh Kamau <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I like the mail. Atleast i can get the answers even on my not so smart
> >> phone.
> >>
> >> Josh.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Chris Colman
> >> <ch...@stepaheadsoftware.com>wrote:
> >>
> >>> >Source management and bugs are also outdated. The version on github is
> >>> much
> >>> >better.
> >>>
> >>> I recently had to get up to speed with github. Not sure what all the
> >>> fuss is about. The learning curve was about 20x that of Subversion and
> >>> I'm still not confident about how to do things or whether what I'm
> doing
> >>> is the 'right' thing to be doing. Subversion on the other hand is
> really
> >>> easy to understand (and most developers already know it) and even
> though
> >>> it has 'theoretical' shortcomings compared to a distributed VCS like
> git
> >>> in practice I never saw any difference in performance or usage apart
> >>> from git being a lot 'weirder' ;)
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >My 2 cents,
> >>> >
> >>> >Gaetan
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com
>
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>
>
Re: Community tools
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
The biggest issue with moving to Stack Overflow is that we deliver our
community to an external party which can do anything with the
questions, show stupid ads, etc. Have no mistake: stack exchange is a
commercial venture. So one criterium is to be able to pull the plug on
it whenever it goes sour. While the content of stack overflow is
publicly available, it is not licensed with an Apache friendly license
(http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/). This issue was the
biggest hurdle SO needs to take to become a viable alternative for the
user list at Apache.
As for this list not being visible, you can always shop around for
list archive providers. Nabble has a nice forum like interface, Mark
mail provides awesome search tooling.
Martijn
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Bert <ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I had a discussion about this with martin dashorst when we meet this
> year at a conference. Apparently, he does like the idea of a SO like
> Q&A site for wicket. But wicket being an Apache project, there are
> certain requirement if i recall our discussion correctly.
>
> One of the problems is the hosting of such a side. The mailing list,
> bugtracker, wicki,... are all hosted and maintained by the apache
> admins. Getting a new tool into there is not easy. One could host a
> solution outside of apache, but this opens questions about long term
> support of the infrastructure, privacy issues and so forth.
>
> There are a few opensource implementations available:
>
> http://gitorious.org/shapado (used by debian at http://ask.debian.net/)
> http://www.osqa.net/
>
> I do like the SO style (never been a fan of mailing lists), but on the
> other side registering here is not much of a hassle.
>
> My 2 cent
> Bert
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 07:25, Josh Kamau <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I like the mail. Atleast i can get the answers even on my not so smart
>> phone.
>>
>> Josh.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Chris Colman
>> <ch...@stepaheadsoftware.com>wrote:
>>
>>> >Source management and bugs are also outdated. The version on github is
>>> much
>>> >better.
>>>
>>> I recently had to get up to speed with github. Not sure what all the
>>> fuss is about. The learning curve was about 20x that of Subversion and
>>> I'm still not confident about how to do things or whether what I'm doing
>>> is the 'right' thing to be doing. Subversion on the other hand is really
>>> easy to understand (and most developers already know it) and even though
>>> it has 'theoretical' shortcomings compared to a distributed VCS like git
>>> in practice I never saw any difference in performance or usage apart
>>> from git being a lot 'weirder' ;)
>>>
>>> >
>>> >My 2 cents,
>>> >
>>> >Gaetan
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: Community tools
Posted by Bert <ta...@gmail.com>.
I had a discussion about this with martin dashorst when we meet this
year at a conference. Apparently, he does like the idea of a SO like
Q&A site for wicket. But wicket being an Apache project, there are
certain requirement if i recall our discussion correctly.
One of the problems is the hosting of such a side. The mailing list,
bugtracker, wicki,... are all hosted and maintained by the apache
admins. Getting a new tool into there is not easy. One could host a
solution outside of apache, but this opens questions about long term
support of the infrastructure, privacy issues and so forth.
There are a few opensource implementations available:
http://gitorious.org/shapado (used by debian at http://ask.debian.net/)
http://www.osqa.net/
I do like the SO style (never been a fan of mailing lists), but on the
other side registering here is not much of a hassle.
My 2 cent
Bert
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 07:25, Josh Kamau <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like the mail. Atleast i can get the answers even on my not so smart
> phone.
>
> Josh.
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Chris Colman
> <ch...@stepaheadsoftware.com>wrote:
>
>> >Source management and bugs are also outdated. The version on github is
>> much
>> >better.
>>
>> I recently had to get up to speed with github. Not sure what all the
>> fuss is about. The learning curve was about 20x that of Subversion and
>> I'm still not confident about how to do things or whether what I'm doing
>> is the 'right' thing to be doing. Subversion on the other hand is really
>> easy to understand (and most developers already know it) and even though
>> it has 'theoretical' shortcomings compared to a distributed VCS like git
>> in practice I never saw any difference in performance or usage apart
>> from git being a lot 'weirder' ;)
>>
>> >
>> >My 2 cents,
>> >
>> >Gaetan
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: Community tools
Posted by Josh Kamau <jo...@gmail.com>.
I like the mail. Atleast i can get the answers even on my not so smart
phone.
Josh.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Chris Colman
<ch...@stepaheadsoftware.com>wrote:
> >Source management and bugs are also outdated. The version on github is
> much
> >better.
>
> I recently had to get up to speed with github. Not sure what all the
> fuss is about. The learning curve was about 20x that of Subversion and
> I'm still not confident about how to do things or whether what I'm doing
> is the 'right' thing to be doing. Subversion on the other hand is really
> easy to understand (and most developers already know it) and even though
> it has 'theoretical' shortcomings compared to a distributed VCS like git
> in practice I never saw any difference in performance or usage apart
> from git being a lot 'weirder' ;)
>
> >
> >My 2 cents,
> >
> >Gaetan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
RE: Community tools
Posted by Chris Colman <ch...@stepaheadsoftware.com>.
>Source management and bugs are also outdated. The version on github is
much
>better.
I recently had to get up to speed with github. Not sure what all the
fuss is about. The learning curve was about 20x that of Subversion and
I'm still not confident about how to do things or whether what I'm doing
is the 'right' thing to be doing. Subversion on the other hand is really
easy to understand (and most developers already know it) and even though
it has 'theoretical' shortcomings compared to a distributed VCS like git
in practice I never saw any difference in performance or usage apart
from git being a lot 'weirder' ;)
>
>My 2 cents,
>
>Gaetan
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Re: Community tools
Posted by Gaetan Zoritchak <g....@moncoachfinance.com>.
>
> Heh. You just said we have a very active community.
>
> While I do like Stack Overflow for many things, it's not a true way of
> building a community. It's a way of asking questions. (Yes, this is just
> my opinion - not meaning to start a flamewar). We have a vibrant community
> here - I don't think the mailing list is limiting the community.
>
>
I think but it's just an opinion, that the need of subscribe to a mailing
list is a little barrier. Some people won't do the effort which means less
interactions.
> Plus, mailing lists are still THE way to communicate in open source.
> Especially is this true with Apache projects.
>
>
> > Moreover, research on old messages are poorly referenced. I
> > have recently experienced it one more time during the migration of my
> > project on Wicket 1.5. The solution to my problem has already been
> > discussed
> > and resolved but it took me a long time to find it. Why not drop this
> > mailing list and discuss all questions
> > onStackOverflow. The business community would be more visible.
> >
>
> How can we quantify such a statement? If you can provide some kind of
> proof
> that it's easier to find an answer by searching SO rather than mailing list
> archives, we could look into alternatives. But such a statement just isn't
> easily (if at all) quantifiable.
>
>
Difficult to quantify but the nable mailing list is flat. There no way for
google to know which question is more important. For the reader it's not
very obvious neither. In a system like StackOverflow, the votes on
questions, on answers, the use of comments rather than answer allow the
filtering of the noise. I think the links beetween questions take the votes
in count and as a result google
shows you rapidly the best question/answer. Moreover when you are reading a
question, you see the other questions in relation.
I don't exactly how SO works but I find it very very efficient for me (not
for wicket questions ;) )
> Source management and bugs are also outdated. The version on github is
> much
> > better.
> >
>
> Github is awesome. I don't care about the issue management on it. JIRA
> has
> a ton more features and support. It works for us. I think that we would
> like to move to git at some point - but it's not (yet) supported for all
> projects at the ASF. There is a public beta running of git for one project
> at the ASF right now. If it succeeds, I think we'll be one of the first
> projects to switch as soon as they make it available to all projects.
>
>
Good news.
>
> Thanks! Hope to see you around this antiquated mailing list :)
>
:)
Of course!!!
Re: Community tools
Posted by Jeremy Thomerson <je...@wickettraining.com>.
On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Gaetan Zoritchak <
g.zoritchak@moncoachfinance.com> wrote:
> First of all, I love wicket. I think it's a very effective framework,
> with an active community.
>
Great, thanks!
> But ...
>
> I regret that some tools reduce its visibility. I think, in particular, the
> mode of exchange based on a mailing list is quite outdated. This mailing
> list which requires subscription limits the number
> of participants.
Heh. You just said we have a very active community.
While I do like Stack Overflow for many things, it's not a true way of
building a community. It's a way of asking questions. (Yes, this is just
my opinion - not meaning to start a flamewar). We have a vibrant community
here - I don't think the mailing list is limiting the community.
Plus, mailing lists are still THE way to communicate in open source.
Especially is this true with Apache projects.
> Moreover, research on old messages are poorly referenced. I
> have recently experienced it one more time during the migration of my
> project on Wicket 1.5. The solution to my problem has already been
> discussed
> and resolved but it took me a long time to find it. Why not drop this
> mailing list and discuss all questions
> onStackOverflow. The business community would be more visible.
>
How can we quantify such a statement? If you can provide some kind of proof
that it's easier to find an answer by searching SO rather than mailing list
archives, we could look into alternatives. But such a statement just isn't
easily (if at all) quantifiable.
> Source management and bugs are also outdated. The version on github is much
> better.
>
Github is awesome. I don't care about the issue management on it. JIRA has
a ton more features and support. It works for us. I think that we would
like to move to git at some point - but it's not (yet) supported for all
projects at the ASF. There is a public beta running of git for one project
at the ASF right now. If it succeeds, I think we'll be one of the first
projects to switch as soon as they make it available to all projects.
> My 2 cents,
>
> Gaetan
>
Thanks! Hope to see you around this antiquated mailing list :)
--
Jeremy Thomerson
http://wickettraining.com
*Need a CMS for Wicket? Use Brix! http://brixcms.org*
Re: Community tools
Posted by Martin Makundi <ma...@koodaripalvelut.com>.
Hi!
2011/10/7 Gaetan Zoritchak <g....@moncoachfinance.com>
> Why not drop this mailing list and discuss all questions
> onStackOverflow. The business community would be more visible.
It might make sense to join the stackoverflow network with
www.WicketRuntimeException.com or similar as a better subsitute for
users@wicket ;)
> > he business community would be more visible.
> How can we quantify such a statement?
+1 true hard to quantify, but apparently SO-style has better usability
and readability simply because of possibility to have styled posts. I
guess search engines will find your solutions just the same regardless
of their style.
**
Martin
>
>
> Gaetan
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