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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Andrew Savory <an...@luminas.co.uk> on 2003/11/29 15:52:59 UTC
Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
Hi,
On 28 Nov 2003, at 06:54, Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Pls also keep
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=CocoonFormsRoadmap
> up-to-date!
The wiki page in question asks people to vote on their favourite
features, in order to prioritise feature development. On the surface
this seems like a good idea, but I can't help but feel that the wiki is
the wrong place to carry out any sort of vote, due to the impermanent
nature of it.
I know that bugzilla has a "vote for this feature" facility, so I
wonder if we'd be better off moving votes to there, where it will be
archived for posterity?
(Incidentally, Safari on OS X hangs when I use the bugzilla query page,
right after I select "Cocoon 2.1" - anyone else seeing this?)
Andrew.
--
Andrew Savory, Managing Director, Luminas Limited
Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658 Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135
Web: http://www.luminas.co.uk/
Orixo alliance: http://www.orixo.com/
Re: Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
Posted by Joerg Heinicke <jo...@gmx.de>.
On 30.11.2003 21:08, Litrik De Roy wrote:
> Andrew Savory wrote:
>
>>
>> It should be possible in Bugzilla - see for example
>> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25094 which has a
>> "Votes for bug 25094: 1 Vote for this bug" section, and
>> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/votehelp.html which describes the
>> process.
>>
>> I guess we'd need to enter each CocoonForms feature into bugzilla,
>> mark it as "enhancement", and prod people to vote.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
> I just added my vote to the above "bug" and I did notice 2 things:
>
> 1) You need a Bugzilla account. This is no problem for me because I
> already have one (after submitting a patch some time ago) but most users
> will not have one.
> 2) There was a piece of text saying "0 votes used out of 6 allowed.".
> Does this mean that I can only cast 6 votes. The enhancements list for
> Woody/CocoonForms will be much longer than that...
Yes, you have 6 votes for every 'product' in the bugzilla sense, i.e.
Cocoon 2 for example.
Joerg
Re: Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le Dimanche, 30 nov 2003, à 21:08 Europe/Zurich, Litrik De Roy a écrit :
> ...2) There was a piece of text saying "0 votes used out of 6
> allowed.". Does this mean that I can only cast 6 votes. The
> enhancements list for Woody/CocoonForms will be much longer than
> that...
This max number of votes is configurable per product in the bugzilla
"products" page (http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/editproducts.cgi)
but currently we don't have access to this page, see my other mail.
-Bertrand
Re: Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
Posted by Litrik De Roy <co...@litrik.com>.
Andrew Savory wrote:
>
> It should be possible in Bugzilla - see for example
> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25094 which has a
> "Votes for bug 25094: 1 Vote for this bug" section, and
> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/votehelp.html which describes the
> process.
>
> I guess we'd need to enter each CocoonForms feature into bugzilla,
> mark it as "enhancement", and prod people to vote.
>
> Thoughts?
>
I just added my vote to the above "bug" and I did notice 2 things:
1) You need a Bugzilla account. This is no problem for me because I
already have one (after submitting a patch some time ago) but most users
will not have one.
2) There was a piece of text saying "0 votes used out of 6 allowed.".
Does this mean that I can only cast 6 votes. The enhancements list for
Woody/CocoonForms will be much longer than that...
> Andrew.
--
Litrik De Roy
www.litrik.com
Re: Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
Posted by Andrew Savory <an...@luminas.co.uk>.
Hi,
On 30 Nov 2003, at 14:18, Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> When I wrote the mail to the list I asked for help moving the
> issues to Bugilla (any Bugzilla gurus out there???) but haven't got any
> reponse on my call.
Ah, sorry, missed that - I only caught up with the thread at the end.
> so, do we have the possibility to get useful reports from Bugzilla -
> useful means: to get e.g. only feature requests for CocoonForms?
> ...or do we need some more advanced tool like JIRA?
It should be possible in Bugzilla - see for example
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25094 which has a
"Votes for bug 25094: 1 Vote for this bug" section, and
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/votehelp.html which describes the
process.
I guess we'd need to enter each CocoonForms feature into bugzilla, mark
it as "enhancement", and prod people to vote.
Thoughts?
Andrew.
--
Andrew Savory, Managing Director, Luminas Limited
Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658 Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135
Web: http://www.luminas.co.uk/
Orixo alliance: http://www.orixo.com/
RE: Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bertrand Delacretaz [mailto:bdelacretaz@apache.org]
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 10:14 AM
> To: dev@cocoon.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
>
>
> Le Lundi, 1 déc 2003, à 09:35 Europe/Zurich, Reinhard Poetz a écrit:
> > ...So using the dependency function we can create following
> hierarchy:
> >
> > - CocoonFormsRoadmap
> > - release 1.0
>
> CocoonForms release 1.0 maybe, just to be clear
>
> > - multi-form support
> > - calculated widgets
> > - release 1.1
> > - tree widget
>
> Sounds good to me. Making issues dependent on either "release" issue
> then allows you to quickly reshuffle prioritities, and the
> CocoonFormsRoadmap dependency tree gives the overview. Cool.
Fine!
I've already contacted Pier. As soon as we have the "CocoonForms"
component I'll start moving the Wiki entries into Bugzilla.
Thank you Bertrand!
Cheers,
Reinhard
Re: Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le Lundi, 1 déc 2003, à 09:35 Europe/Zurich, Reinhard Poetz a écrit:
> ...So using the dependency function we can create following hierarchy:
>
> - CocoonFormsRoadmap
> - release 1.0
CocoonForms release 1.0 maybe, just to be clear
> - multi-form support
> - calculated widgets
> - release 1.1
> - tree widget
Sounds good to me. Making issues dependent on either "release" issue
then allows you to quickly reshuffle prioritities, and the
CocoonFormsRoadmap dependency tree gives the overview. Cool.
-Bertrand
RE: Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
From: Bertrand Delacretaz
> Le Lundi, 1 déc 2003, à 08:51 Europe/Zurich, Reinhard Poetz a écrit :
> >> ...CocoonForms = need to to define a Component called
> CocoonForms for
> >> the "Cocoon 2" product in bugzilla.
> >
> > What do we need this for?
>
> Defining a "Cocoon Forms" component of Cocoon allows you to
> mark issues
> as being specific to Cocoon Forms.
>
> > If all enhancement requests are marked as such we simply
> don't include
> > them and also don't include all bugs with "[Patch]" in
> their summary
> > and we get a list of all open bugs.
>
> Yes, but if you're only interested in Cocoon Forms stuff you need
> another query parameter, hence the need for a new Component
> definition
> in bugzilla.
Ok, I understand
>
> > See
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=HowWeUseBugzilla - I added
> > a query section
>
> cool
>
> > ...Looks good, exactly what I needed. So IIUC we have to:
> >
> > - get access to the "edit products" function or at least set up
> > a standard (organizational) procedure how we have it done (e.g.
> > email the right person at Apache infrastructure)
>
> Yes, preferably get access to "edit products".
>
> Pier seems to have the necessary bugzilla rights
> (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=105343145413
> 887&w=2)
> to enable this.
I'll contact him
> > - create CocoonForms component
> > --> altough I don't know what we need this for ...
>
> see above
>
> > - make it possible to have more than 6 votes
> >
> > - move all entries from Wiki to Bugzilla
>
> Yes, and keep the wiki page for general info about the roadmap
>
> >
> > - give our users and committers some time to vote
> >
> > - discuss on dev@cocoon.apache.org the voting results and set
> > up the roadmap
>
> Sounds good
>
> > --> how can we activate the "target milestone"? That's exactly
what
> > we would need!
>
> hmm...never used it, and I'm not sure if milestones can be defined at
> the product level.
>
> OTOH a milestone ("release 2.2") could be another bugzilla
> entry which depends on the Cocoon Forms Roadmap entry, this
> would also give a good
> overview. Actually that would be my preferred way of doing it, the
> multi-level dependency tree is then very informative.
So using the dependency function we can create following hierarchy:
- CocoonFormsRoadmap
- release 1.0
- multi-form support
- calculated widgets
- release 1.1
- tree widget
Did you mean it this way?
>
> > - implementation ;-)
>
> Cannot help with this one ATM but it still looks important ;-)
:-)
--
Reinhard
Re: Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le Lundi, 1 déc 2003, à 08:51 Europe/Zurich, Reinhard Poetz a écrit :
>> ...CocoonForms = need to to define a Component called
>> CocoonForms for the
>> "Cocoon 2" product in bugzilla.
>
> What do we need this for?
Defining a "Cocoon Forms" component of Cocoon allows you to mark issues
as being specific to Cocoon Forms.
> If all enhancement requests are marked as such we simply don't include
> them and also don't include all bugs with "[Patch]" in their summary
> and we get a list of all open bugs.
Yes, but if you're only interested in Cocoon Forms stuff you need
another query parameter, hence the need for a new Component definition
in bugzilla.
> See http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=HowWeUseBugzilla - I added
> a query section
cool
> ...Looks good, exactly what I needed. So IIUC we have to:
>
> - get access to the "edit products" function or at least set up
> a standard (organizational) procedure how we have it done (e.g.
> email the right person at Apache infrastructure)
Yes, preferably get access to "edit products".
Pier seems to have the necessary bugzilla rights
(http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=105343145413887&w=2)
to enable this.
> - create CocoonForms component
> --> altough I don't know what we need this for ...
see above
> - make it possible to have more than 6 votes
>
> - move all entries from Wiki to Bugzilla
Yes, and keep the wiki page for general info about the roadmap
>
> - give our users and committers some time to vote
>
> - discuss on dev@cocoon.apache.org the voting results and set
> up the roadmap
Sounds good
> --> how can we activate the "target milestone"? That's exactly what
> we would need!
hmm...never used it, and I'm not sure if milestones can be defined at
the product level.
OTOH a milestone ("release 2.2") could be another bugzilla entry which
depends on the Cocoon Forms Roadmap entry, this would also give a good
overview. Actually that would be my preferred way of doing it, the
multi-level dependency tree is then very informative.
> - implementation ;-)
Cannot help with this one ATM but it still looks important ;-)
-Bertrand
RE: Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
From: Bertrand Delacretaz
Thanks Bertrand, privily I hoped you join this discussion :-)
> Le Dimanche, 30 nov 2003, à 15:18 Europe/Zurich, Reinhard
> Poetz a écrit
> :
>
> > ...yep, I had the feeling too but as we don't have any rules for
> > feature
> > requests and I don't have the know-how in Bugzilla how to separate
> > between patches, bugs and feature requests...
>
> There was a discussion a while ago, the best way to
> differentiate seems
> to be:
>
> -[PATCH] in the summary for patches
> -Severity=Enhancement for feature requests
> -The rest are bugs
Ok
>
> > and I also don't have the
> > time to find out all those things I used Wiki which was the easierst
> > way
> > for *me*. When I wrote the mail to the list I asked for
> help moving the
> > issues to Bugilla (any Bugzilla gurus out there???) but
> haven't got any
> > reponse on my call.
> >
> > so, do we have the possibility to get useful reports from
> Bugzilla -
> > useful means: to get e.g. only feature requests for CocoonForms?
>
> "only feature requests" = "Severity==enhancement"
>
> CocoonForms = need to to define a Component called
> CocoonForms for the
> "Cocoon 2" product in bugzilla.
What do we need this for?
If all enhancement requests are marked as such we simply don't include
them and also don't include all bugs with "[Patch]" in their summary
and we get a list of all open bugs.
See http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=HowWeUseBugzilla - I added
a query section
>
> Mere mortals don't seem to be allowed to do that though, there should
> be a standard way to contact bugzilla admins (Pier AFAIK, others?) to
> ask them to do it if this function ("edit products") cannot be made
> open to committers easily.
>
> > ...or do we need some more advanced tool like JIRA?
>
> What you're looking for can be done today in bugzilla, IMHO we should
> try to use it before switching. But to be efficient the "edit
> products"
> page should be made accessible to committers (at least some of them).
I *don't* have a problem with bugzilla, if it feets our needs and
what I understood and tried it completly does ...
>
> For a roadmap like
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=CocoonFormsRoadmap
> I'd create a
> master "Cocoon Forms Roadmap" bugzilla entry which depends on other
> entries from the roadmap, to have an easy way to see them
> together as a
> group.
>
> I've created entry 25099 to test this, the dependencies list
> (currently
> only one dependent entry) can be seen at
> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=25099
Looks good, exactly what I needed. So IIUC we have to:
- get access to the "edit products" function or at least set up
a standard (organizational) procedure how we have it done (e.g.
email the right person at Apache infrastructure)
- create CocoonForms component
--> altough I don't know what we need this for ...
- make it possible to have more than 6 votes
- move all entries from Wiki to Bugzilla
- give our users and committers some time to vote
- discuss on dev@cocoon.apache.org the voting results and set
up the roadmap
--> how can we activate the "target milestone"? That's exactly what
we would need!
- implementation ;-)
--
Reinhard
Re: Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le Dimanche, 30 nov 2003, à 15:18 Europe/Zurich, Reinhard Poetz a écrit
:
> ...yep, I had the feeling too but as we don't have any rules for
> feature
> requests and I don't have the know-how in Bugzilla how to separate
> between patches, bugs and feature requests...
There was a discussion a while ago, the best way to differentiate seems
to be:
-[PATCH] in the summary for patches
-Severity=Enhancement for feature requests
-The rest are bugs
> and I also don't have the
> time to find out all those things I used Wiki which was the easierst
> way
> for *me*. When I wrote the mail to the list I asked for help moving the
> issues to Bugilla (any Bugzilla gurus out there???) but haven't got any
> reponse on my call.
>
> so, do we have the possibility to get useful reports from Bugzilla -
> useful means: to get e.g. only feature requests for CocoonForms?
"only feature requests" = "Severity==enhancement"
CocoonForms = need to to define a Component called CocoonForms for the
"Cocoon 2" product in bugzilla.
Mere mortals don't seem to be allowed to do that though, there should
be a standard way to contact bugzilla admins (Pier AFAIK, others?) to
ask them to do it if this function ("edit products") cannot be made
open to committers easily.
> ...or do we need some more advanced tool like JIRA?
What you're looking for can be done today in bugzilla, IMHO we should
try to use it before switching. But to be efficient the "edit products"
page should be made accessible to committers (at least some of them).
For a roadmap like
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=CocoonFormsRoadmap I'd create a
master "Cocoon Forms Roadmap" bugzilla entry which depends on other
entries from the roadmap, to have an easy way to see them together as a
group.
I've created entry 25099 to test this, the dependencies list (currently
only one dependent entry) can be seen at
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=25099
-Bertrand
RE: Feature request votes (was Re: CocoonForms roadmap)
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
From: Andrew Savory
> Hi,
>
> On 28 Nov 2003, at 06:54, Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
> > Pls also keep
> > http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=CocoonFormsRoadmap
> > up-to-date!
>
> The wiki page in question asks people to vote on their favourite
> features, in order to prioritise feature development. On the surface
> this seems like a good idea, but I can't help but feel that
> the wiki is
> the wrong place to carry out any sort of vote, due to the
> impermanent
> nature of it.
>
> I know that bugzilla has a "vote for this feature" facility, so I
> wonder if we'd be better off moving votes to there, where it will be
> archived for posterity?
yep, I had the feeling too but as we don't have any rules for feature
requests and I don't have the know-how in Bugzilla how to separate
between patches, bugs and feature requests and I also don't have the
time to find out all those things I used Wiki which was the easierst way
for *me*. When I wrote the mail to the list I asked for help moving the
issues to Bugilla (any Bugzilla gurus out there???) but haven't got any
reponse on my call.
so, do we have the possibility to get useful reports from Bugzilla -
useful means: to get e.g. only feature requests for CocoonForms?
...or do we need some more advanced tool like JIRA?
--
Reinhard