Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

["Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>]

+1 to costin's sentiment!  I completely agree with everything he said.

On Wed, 2002-05-01 at 18:15, costinm@covalent.net wrote:
> +1
> 
> I would go even further and propose a top level project that will
> host all project-management tools, including Gump.
> 
> While gump doesn't have a very big community of developers ( I wish 
> I had more time), it is an essential tool for jakarta, and 
> I think 'it is the real thing'. 
> 
> There are many solutions for the same problem - and it seems 
> Centipede is based on Cocoon and XSLT, which would make it 
> my preference ( if I would need such a tool ).
> I know other people dislike xslt - and I think it's fair to
> have a choice. 
> 
> Having a single repository and top level project, with possible
> common components ( while preserving the important choices
> of each project ) is a good solution, and until this happen 
> I don't consider either of the 2 projects 'mature' enough.
> 
> Costin
> 
> On Wed, 1 May 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> 
> >    ********************
> >       WHY KRYSALIS
> >    ********************
> > 
> > From: "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>
> > 
> > > I've no problem with that if Ken is given committer access, the
> > > community agrees and comes up with a plan to integrate the two and all.
> > >  I just figured it made more sense to have a project specifically for it
> > > rather than a subproject of a subproject that has nothing to do with it
> > > in general.
> > 
> > This is why Centipede came up on Krysalis instead of Apache.
> > 
> > I followed the discussion we had here on if/how to accept projects at
> > Apache, and about why Jakarta is not Sourceforge.
> > Krysalis came up with the goal of pursuing Apache-style projects out of
> > Apache itself, till they mature to a level at which they can honestly
> > propose themselves on this list.
> > 
> > Personally, I have already tried to collaborate with Maven on the Alexandria
> > list, even only at the descriptor level, and unfortunately have miserably
> > failed (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=101713408000002&r=1&w=2)
> > 
> > This is why Maven and Centipede have different descriptors.
> > 
> > BTW, the Centipede module.xml descriptor is an enhanced Gump descriptor, and
> > works OOTB with Gump itself.
> > 
> >    **********************
> >           CENTAVEN?
> >    **********************
> > 
> > > But there has to be a sincere effort not just a "squash
> > > centipede by saying yes to the proposal then -1ing the implemnetation".
> > >  I just want the "to".
> > 
> > I just want a build system that gives you the possibilities of Centipede,
> > which Maven still lacks.
> > 
> > That said, I don't care where the project resides. My decision of putting it
> > on Krysalis was taken to abide as much as possible to Jakarta standards, but
> > it seems that stretching them to ones needs is more effective.
> > 
> > > Personally I'd like to see the combined Centaven moved to a
> > > jakarta.org/centaven level.  If this effort is truely undertaken, POI
> > > will upgrade to a combined centaven.  (I don't care what its named its
> > > the senitment).. .  Then who wins?  Well everyone.  We get what we need.
> > 
> > I'm +1000 for this, as I have always been.
> > 
> > So, let me throw the stone.
> > 
> > 
> >                                          -oOo-
> > 
> > 
> > Here is what I think is in the best intrest of ALL on Jakarta, let's see
> > what the Jakarta Community thinks.
> > 
> >    ***************************
> >             PROPOSALS
> >    ***************************
> > This multi-proposal is an effort to unite forces on the build-system front
> > and to give a sense to all project build/documentation/site projects on
> > xml.apache and Jakarta.
> > 
> > 
> >         JAKARTA-GUMP
> >    ***********************
> > Alexandria started as a multi-project documentation system, and is now dead.
> > Gump started there by using the Alexandria descriptors but has become a
> > conyinuous-integration tool.
> > 
> > I propose that it finally becomes a top-level Jakarta project, as it is now
> > de-facto.
> > 
> > The Vindico proposal will migrate to that project as well and will have the
> > possibility to challenge the current de-facto Gump codebase with a vote as
> > permitted by the Jakarta rules.
> > 
> > 
> >         JAKARTA-ALEXANDRIA
> >    *******************************
> > Alexandria still has an important mission, that of creating beautiful
> > cross-referenced Java project documentation.
> > Maven has taken part of the code-base AFAIK and is using it.
> > Centipede is producing source-code cross reference with javasrc and
> > umldoclet, and is working on creating SVG UML package charts.
> > 
> > Alexandria can continue with its mission.
> > Maven can port-back the code it uses.
> > Javasrc developer Bill Smith has decided to DONATE the code to the
> > Alexandria project and continue coding there
> > (http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=1552505).
> > Centipede will give all the code it has that generates documentation.
> > 
> >         CENTAVEN
> >    *******************
> > Maven and Centipede have similar goals but different approaches.
> > 
> > I would like to see them united, and have a single project description
> > system.
> > 
> > We have the need, we have the community, we have the code.
> > 
> > Centipede will never be able to make it into Maven and viceversa, because
> > the approaches are very different.
> > 
> > I think that these can be overcome, and that we can devide a comon system
> > that solves *all* our  _needs_.
> > 
> > 
> >         SUMMARY
> >    *******************
> > Here is my +1+1+1 for all three proposals.
> > 
> > This is the best I can do, and what I think is in the best interest for
> > Apache.
> > 
> > What do you think?
> > 
> > --
> > Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
> >             - verba volant, scripta manent -
> >    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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