Choosing Tapestry (was Tapestry usage)

["Hensley, Richard" <Ri...@McKesson.com>]

I recently had to make a similar evaluation. I used the following process
and criteria to compare Cocoon and Tapestry:

Process:

1. Try to get it out of the box and running. 
Measure frustration, ease of installation, ease of getting the samples
running
Cocoon passed
Tapestry passed

2. Try to get a reasonable development environment rolling
Cocoon had problems here, but I got it working
Tapestry, because of Spindle, passed with flying colors

3. Try to get a prototype application built and running
Gave up on Cocoon
Tapestry passed with flying colors

Evaluate the following:

1. How robust and helpful is the community
Cocoon passed with flying colors
Tapestry passed with flying colors

2. How robust is the available documentation
Cocoon passed with flying colors
Tapestry passed with flying colors

3. Judge the amount of non application plumbing that needs to be built
This is why I gave up on Cocoon, to much XML plumbing, to flexible, to many
features
Tapestry is very lean in this regard, I build a lot of application and very
little plumbing.

4. Judge the maintenance aspects
Cocoon has some very good documentation about separation of concerns and how
that helps, but in practice Cocoon simply does to much stuff and is easy to
get off in the weeds for our staff.
Tapestry's strength interactive web applications. It also has excellent
separation of concerns. This combined with the component model allows for a
very modular application with modules that focus on a single task and can be
integrated with ease. Needless to say, Tapestry passed with flying colors.

5. Judge the license for use in a commercial application
Both are ASF and Apache License, nuff said

6. Judge the learning curve
Cocoon is big, very big
Tapestry has just enough to get our application built. The designer seems to
have paid particular attention to having a small learnable API. Very good in
this respect.

7. Uses servlets
They do

As you can tell, Tapestry was chosen for all the reasons stated here. An
interesting point is that following were not high in priority during the
evaluation.
- Has feature X, Y, Z
- Is an industry standard
- Has all sorts of features that might be nice in the future
- Application Performance

Fundamentally what was really important were the following:

- Can it be learned
- Can it be taught
- Can an application built using it be maintained 
- Does it have enough features to build the application we need

Richard Hensley

-----Original Message-----
From: Harish Krishnaswamy [mailto:hkrishnaswamy@comcast.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 9:36 AM
To: Vishnu Murali; tapestry-user@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Re: Tapestry usage


There were a couple of discussions comparing Tapestry to JSF and Struts 
in TSS a while back, please do a search.

www.nhl.com, www.centralparksoftware.com are the only two that I can 
think of on top my head. I am sure there are plenty others.

Howard's book (http://www.manning.com/catalog/view.php?book=lewisship) 
is the primary resource. There are also tutorials that you can find on 
the Tapestry's website and other places like Hibernate, Cayenne etc. The 
other very useful resource is the vibrant community; please subscribe to 
the user's mailing list and ask your questions there.

Happy Tapestrying!

-Harish


Vishnu Murali wrote:

> Hi Harish
>  
> I am trying to understand Tapesty (in context of Struts and other Java 
> frameworks) and am also trying to make a case of selecting the right 
> framework. In this connection, I am also trying to view some reference 
> applications/sites that carry apps that used Tapestry.
>  
> Unfortunately, the links to some apps in Apache-Tapestry wiki don't work.
>  
> Grateful if you can help in pointing me in the right direction, 
> resources etc.
>  
> Thanks much.
>  
> Vishnu


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RE: Choosing Tapestry (was Tapestry usage)

["Howard M. Lewis Ship" <hl...@comcast.net>]

Nice information; when you get a chance, please put this up on the Wiki.

--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
http://howardlewisship.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hensley, Richard [mailto:Richard.Hensley@McKesson.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:25 PM
> To: 'Tapestry users'; 'Vishnu Murali'
> Subject: Choosing Tapestry (was Tapestry usage)
> 
> 
> I recently had to make a similar evaluation. I used the 
> following process
> and criteria to compare Cocoon and Tapestry:
> 
> Process:
> 
> 1. Try to get it out of the box and running. 
> Measure frustration, ease of installation, ease of getting the samples
> running
> Cocoon passed
> Tapestry passed
> 
> 2. Try to get a reasonable development environment rolling
> Cocoon had problems here, but I got it working
> Tapestry, because of Spindle, passed with flying colors
> 
> 3. Try to get a prototype application built and running
> Gave up on Cocoon
> Tapestry passed with flying colors
> 
> Evaluate the following:
> 
> 1. How robust and helpful is the community
> Cocoon passed with flying colors
> Tapestry passed with flying colors
> 
> 2. How robust is the available documentation
> Cocoon passed with flying colors
> Tapestry passed with flying colors
> 
> 3. Judge the amount of non application plumbing that needs to be built
> This is why I gave up on Cocoon, to much XML plumbing, to 
> flexible, to many
> features
> Tapestry is very lean in this regard, I build a lot of 
> application and very
> little plumbing.
> 
> 4. Judge the maintenance aspects
> Cocoon has some very good documentation about separation of 
> concerns and how
> that helps, but in practice Cocoon simply does to much stuff 
> and is easy to
> get off in the weeds for our staff.
> Tapestry's strength interactive web applications. It also has 
> excellent
> separation of concerns. This combined with the component 
> model allows for a
> very modular application with modules that focus on a single 
> task and can be
> integrated with ease. Needless to say, Tapestry passed with 
> flying colors.
> 
> 5. Judge the license for use in a commercial application
> Both are ASF and Apache License, nuff said
> 
> 6. Judge the learning curve
> Cocoon is big, very big
> Tapestry has just enough to get our application built. The 
> designer seems to
> have paid particular attention to having a small learnable 
> API. Very good in
> this respect.
> 
> 7. Uses servlets
> They do
> 
> As you can tell, Tapestry was chosen for all the reasons 
> stated here. An
> interesting point is that following were not high in priority 
> during the
> evaluation.
> - Has feature X, Y, Z
> - Is an industry standard
> - Has all sorts of features that might be nice in the future
> - Application Performance
> 
> Fundamentally what was really important were the following:
> 
> - Can it be learned
> - Can it be taught
> - Can an application built using it be maintained 
> - Does it have enough features to build the application we need
> 
> Richard Hensley
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harish Krishnaswamy [mailto:hkrishnaswamy@comcast.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 9:36 AM
> To: Vishnu Murali; tapestry-user@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Tapestry usage
> 
> 
> There were a couple of discussions comparing Tapestry to JSF 
> and Struts 
> in TSS a while back, please do a search.
> 
> www.nhl.com, www.centralparksoftware.com are the only two that I can 
> think of on top my head. I am sure there are plenty others.
> 
> Howard's book 
> (http://www.manning.com/catalog/view.php?> book=lewisship) 
> is 
> the primary resource. There are also 
> tutorials that you can find on 
> the Tapestry's website and other places like Hibernate, 
> Cayenne etc. The 
> other very useful resource is the vibrant community; please 
> subscribe to 
> the user's mailing list and ask your questions there.
> 
> Happy Tapestrying!
> 
> -Harish
> 
> 
> Vishnu Murali wrote:
> 
> > Hi Harish
> >  
> > I am trying to understand Tapesty (in context of Struts and 
> other Java 
> > frameworks) and am also trying to make a case of selecting 
> the right 
> > framework. In this connection, I am also trying to view 
> some reference 
> > applications/sites that carry apps that used Tapestry.
> >  
> > Unfortunately, the links to some apps in Apache-Tapestry 
> wiki don't work.
> >  
> > Grateful if you can help in pointing me in the right direction, 
> > resources etc.
> >  
> > Thanks much.
> >  
> > Vishnu
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 


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