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Posted to java-dev@axis.apache.org by Ajith Ranabahu <aj...@gmail.com> on 2005/09/14 15:06:11 UTC

[Axis2] chat log on 14th September 2005

After a long time Glen D joined the chat. The primary discussion was around 
the service groups. 

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[9/14/2005 6:00 PM] <Gayan> Hi All
[9/14/2005 6:01 PM] <Ajith> Hi
[9/14/2005 6:01 PM] <Ajith> it's almost time
[9/14/2005 6:02 PM] <Ajith> should we start
[9/14/2005 6:02 PM] <Ajith> ?
[9/14/2005 6:02 PM] <saminda> hi
[9/14/2005 6:03 PM] <chamikara> hi
[9/14/2005 6:04 PM] <gdaniels> hi folks
[9/14/2005 6:04 PM] <Ajith> Hi Glen
[9/14/2005 6:04 PM] <gdaniels> so what's on today's agenda?
[9/14/2005 6:04 PM] <Deepal> hi All
[9/14/2005 6:04 PM] <Deepal> sorry I am fixing some test cases
[9/14/2005 6:05 PM] <gdaniels> never apologize for fixing things, Deepal :)
[9/14/2005 6:05 PM] <Ajith> Hmm.. How about the upcoming release
[9/14/2005 6:06 PM] <Deepal> no glen we are foing ServiceGroup thing
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[9/14/2005 6:06 PM] <Thilina> hi guys
[9/14/2005 6:06 PM] <Deepal> it giveing us big trouble
[9/14/2005 6:06 PM] <dims> hi all
[9/14/2005 6:06 PM] <Ajith> Hi dims
[9/14/2005 6:07 PM] <gdaniels> Deepal : Do you want to talk about it? Is it 
design-level stuff or just coding problems?
[9/14/2005 6:07 PM] <gdaniels> hi dims
[9/14/2005 6:08 PM] <Deepal> its desing level
[9/14/2005 6:08 PM] <gdaniels> Essentially everything should be identical 
except for adding a ServiceGroupContext when a service is in a group, right?
[9/14/2005 6:08 PM] <Ajith> I guess the design level stuff is almost done! 
is it not ?
[9/14/2005 6:08 PM] <Deepal> yup Ajith : now fixing test case
[9/14/2005 6:10 PM] <Ajith> Glen: how about the new DB framework
[9/14/2005 6:10 PM] <Deepal> any way now we have nice Context heirachy
[9/14/2005 6:10 PM] <Ajith> how is it coming ?
[9/14/2005 6:11 PM] <gdaniels> Ajith: I'm still working on the WSDL/codegen 
portion
[9/14/2005 6:11 PM] <Deepal> glen : in side we condider everting as 
ServoceGroup
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[9/14/2005 6:11 PM] <Ajith> ah
[9/14/2005 6:11 PM] <Chinthaka> hi all, sorry I forgot the time :(
[9/14/2005 6:12 PM] <Deepal> meaning if some one deploy a single service , 
we will create a ServiceGroup for that
[9/14/2005 6:12 PM] <Deepal> and treat the same way
[9/14/2005 6:12 PM] <gdaniels> Am trying to build you a sample Stub for 
client-side stuff, Ajith, so you can see how it looks - hope to get that 
done ASAP (today)
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[9/14/2005 6:12 PM] <Ajith> anything we can give a hand ?
[9/14/2005 6:13 PM] <gdaniels> Ajith: if you were talking to me, then no not 
yet but yes after I get the next set of stuff out we should talk about 
splitting up the rest of the work
[9/14/2005 6:14 PM] <Ajith> Glen : yep, will wait till you finsih the stuff
[9/14/2005 6:14 PM] <gdaniels> Good morning/evening Chinthaka :)
[9/14/2005 6:14 PM] <Chinthaka> Good Morning Glen :)
[9/14/2005 6:14 PM] <gdaniels> Deepal: Sounds good - so the 
ServiceGroup/Service are named the same for a single-service deployment?
[9/14/2005 6:15 PM] <Deepal> yup
[9/14/2005 6:15 PM] <Deepal> ias an example if we deploy a service with say 
foo.arr
[9/14/2005 6:16 PM] <Deepal> with a single service in it , then ServiceGruop 
will be craeted with name "foo" and
[9/14/2005 6:16 PM] <Deepal> Service will be created with the name "foo:foo"
[9/14/2005 6:16 PM] <Deepal> and added to that
[9/14/2005 6:16 PM] <gdaniels> And all Modules deployed inside a given aar 
or exploded service dir are available to any of the services within that 
group?
[9/14/2005 6:17 PM] <Deepal> glen : we are still not support to add modules 
archive file inside a service archive
[9/14/2005 6:17 PM] <gdaniels> Deepal: What's the name "foo:foo" - in other 
words what's the colon about?
[9/14/2005 6:18 PM] <gdaniels> Deepal: Oh. :(
[9/14/2005 6:18 PM] <Deepal> this is the case say if soembody deploye a 
serviceGroup with name foo.aar
[9/14/2005 6:19 PM] * dims will be back in a bit
[9/14/2005 6:19 PM] <Deepal> then the serviceGroup name will be foo
[9/14/2005 6:19 PM] <Chinthaka> syntax : <serviceGroupName>:<ServiceName>
[9/14/2005 6:20 PM] <gdaniels> Where does that syntax ever get used?
[9/14/2005 6:20 PM] <Deepal> internal dispatching
[9/14/2005 6:20 PM] <Chinthaka> we define the EPR in the WSDL like that
[9/14/2005 6:20 PM] <Deepal> i mean now the EPR will look like 
/axis2/services/foo:bar
[9/14/2005 6:20 PM] <gdaniels> err... are you saying we can have foo:s1 and 
also bar:s1?
[9/14/2005 6:21 PM] <Deepal> so in order to find the service group 
[9/14/2005 6:21 PM] <Chinthaka> exactly
[9/14/2005 6:21 PM] <gdaniels> I think I'm leaning against that idea....
[9/14/2005 6:21 PM] <Deepal> yup
[9/14/2005 6:21 PM] <Deepal> why 
[9/14/2005 6:21 PM] <Deepal> two service Group can have same service
[9/14/2005 6:21 PM] <gdaniels> ..because it makes things potentially 
confusing
[9/14/2005 6:21 PM] <Chinthaka> Glen : to whom ?
[9/14/2005 6:22 PM] <Deepal> glen: for out side world it is two dif service
[9/14/2005 6:22 PM] <Deepal> s
[9/14/2005 6:22 PM] <gdaniels> yes, but it's also two dif services in the 
inside world
[9/14/2005 6:22 PM] <gdaniels> (they need to be deployed as two separate 
pieces)
[9/14/2005 6:22 PM] <Deepal> hmm yup
[9/14/2005 6:22 PM] <gdaniels> so if it's different services, why not just 
let the service name be the unique key?
[9/14/2005 6:23 PM] <gdaniels> namespaces make life complicated for tools, 
developers, deployers... they're a great idea in some cases but I'm not 
positive we need them here
[9/14/2005 6:24 PM] <gdaniels> the original idea of ServiceGroups was just 
to let multiple services get packaged/deployed in a single chunk, and let 
them share classloading/etc
[9/14/2005 6:24 PM] <gdaniels> (and context, of course)
[9/14/2005 6:24 PM] <gdaniels> it wasn't meant to be "visible" in the sense 
that the dispatch/naming would change in any way
[9/14/2005 6:25 PM] <gdaniels> I'm not saying -1, I'm just pushing on the 
idea
[9/14/2005 6:25 PM] <Deepal> glen : whole idea is like this
[9/14/2005 6:25 PM] <Deepal> say we have service group with three servise
[9/14/2005 6:26 PM] <Deepal> 1. Loging
[9/14/2005 6:26 PM] <Deepal> 2. Do smt
[9/14/2005 6:26 PM] <Deepal> 3. Loout
[9/14/2005 6:26 PM] <Deepal> logout
[9/14/2005 6:26 PM] <gdaniels> ?
[9/14/2005 6:26 PM] * dims back
[9/14/2005 6:26 PM] <Deepal> so in side ServiceGroupContext we keep track of 
them
[9/14/2005 6:26 PM] <gdaniels> A "logout" service? Not just an operation? :)
[9/14/2005 6:26 PM] <dims> i don't think we should expose servicegroup on 
the url
[9/14/2005 6:27 PM] <dims> it's an internal detail
[9/14/2005 6:27 PM] <Chinthaka> Dims : In that case lets see this 
[9/14/2005 6:27 PM] <Deepal> dimg : in that case u saying that we should 
have unique name for each service
[9/14/2005 6:27 PM] <Chinthaka> If you deploy foo service in bar service 
group
[9/14/2005 6:27 PM] <Deepal> as glen said
[9/14/2005 6:27 PM] <Chinthaka> which bar group has some other services too
[9/14/2005 6:28 PM] <Chinthaka> when someone invokes the foo service
[9/14/2005 6:28 PM] <Chinthaka> do you want to maintain the 
ServiceGroupContext for that too
[9/14/2005 6:28 PM] <gdaniels> yes
[9/14/2005 6:28 PM] <dims> yes
[9/14/2005 6:28 PM] <gdaniels> each service is uniquely in a single (or no) 
ServiceGroup
[9/14/2005 6:28 PM] <chamikara> i thought the service name is 
group:internalName to the out side
[9/14/2005 6:29 PM] <dims> nope
[9/14/2005 6:29 PM] <gdaniels> so it's no problem for the service to find 
the correct SG context
[9/14/2005 6:29 PM] <gdaniels> I think the difference here is that dims and 
I are thinking that that's the only time you'll need the SG - as a result of 
referring to a service. You won't need to go "downwards" from an SG to a 
service.
[9/14/2005 6:29 PM] <dims> we are trying to add stuff to the url for looking 
up the correct SG
[9/14/2005 6:29 PM] <dims> that's not good
[9/14/2005 6:30 PM] <Chinthaka> ok, one if the reasons to have this SG to 
come to the url is to have same service in diffrent groups
[9/14/2005 6:30 PM] <gdaniels> Chinthaka: But you can't have the "same" 
service deployed in different places. In other words, it's in different 
directories/aars....
[9/14/2005 6:30 PM] <dims> Chinthaka: not needed (at least not now for Axis2 
1.0)
[9/14/2005 6:30 PM] <Chinthaka> ok ...
[9/14/2005 6:30 PM] <gdaniels> Later on we might want something like that
[9/14/2005 6:31 PM] <gdaniels> But that's more of a session concept
[9/14/2005 6:31 PM] <dims> for an outside observer...they should not see any 
difference
[9/14/2005 6:31 PM] <Chinthaka> Dims : they will not see that
[9/14/2005 6:31 PM] <Deepal> yup
[9/14/2005 6:31 PM] <Chinthaka> its just our EPR
[9/14/2005 6:31 PM] <Chinthaka> anyway, lets assume the service name is 
unique
[9/14/2005 6:31 PM] <dims> EPR is visible :)
[9/14/2005 6:31 PM] <gdaniels> EPRs are externally visible though :)
[9/14/2005 6:31 PM] <Deepal> :)
[9/14/2005 6:31 PM] <gdaniels> hehehe
[9/14/2005 6:31 PM] <dims> hehe
[9/14/2005 6:31 PM] <Chinthaka> but no one knows whats in there :)
[9/14/2005 6:32 PM] <gdaniels> Chinthaka: sure they do - they see the 
serialization, right?
[9/14/2005 6:32 PM] <dims> glen: are u logged in from two places and 
masquerading as me :)
[9/14/2005 6:32 PM] <Deepal> ok , wt u guys are saying servic names are 
unique across the syste
[9/14/2005 6:32 PM] <gdaniels> dims: are u logged in from two places and 
masquerading as me :)
[9/14/2005 6:32 PM] <gdaniels> Deepal: +1
[9/14/2005 6:33 PM] <Deepal> ok +1 too
[9/14/2005 6:33 PM] <dims> +1
[9/14/2005 6:33 PM] <Deepal> it will make our job easiier
[9/14/2005 6:33 PM] <gdaniels> +1 to making life easier :)
[9/14/2005 6:33 PM] <Deepal> I mean dispatching
[9/14/2005 6:33 PM] <Ajith> hmmm... So there will be no colons in the EPR ?
[9/14/2005 6:33 PM] <Chinthaka> hmm
[9/14/2005 6:33 PM] <Deepal> yup
[9/14/2005 6:33 PM] <dims> yes please
[9/14/2005 6:33 PM] <chamikara> whats wrong in outside world seing the 
service group
[9/14/2005 6:34 PM] <Deepal> they do not want to know taht
[9/14/2005 6:34 PM] <Deepal> that can use that via referance paramters
[9/14/2005 6:34 PM] <chamikara> colon will be there only if a single service 
group has two services
[9/14/2005 6:34 PM] <Deepal> like session id
[9/14/2005 6:34 PM] <Ajith> hmmm.. good point. I guess we don't want to 
confuse them- that's it
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[9/14/2005 6:35 PM] <gdaniels> it's not even confusing the outside world 
that matters to me so much - it's the fact that the tool writers and such 
would need to worry about it
[9/14/2005 6:36 PM] <dims> chamikara: let's do this and see if we can get 
things to work...we can always add a ':' later :)
[9/14/2005 6:36 PM] <gdaniels> the important thing is to separate the 
concept of a service group (which is a group of services that share a common 
classloader, file hierarchy, and a context for putting info in) and a 
conversation/session/objectID (which causes a particular management service, 
for instance, to be related to a particular stockQuote service)
[9/14/2005 6:37 PM] <chamikara> sure :)
[9/14/2005 6:37 PM] <gdaniels> the former is what we're doing now, the 
latter is what we do with sessions/refp's/etc
[9/14/2005 6:37 PM] <chamikara> is this from a book :))
[9/14/2005 6:37 PM] <dims> it's a convenience for the developer and deployer
[9/14/2005 6:37 PM] <dims> yep the one we all are going to write one day :)
[9/14/2005 6:38 PM] <Ajith> Well making service names unique is cool, but 
I'm a bit worried about how practical it is
[9/14/2005 6:38 PM] <gdaniels> chamikara: Are you saying I sound like a 
book? :)
[9/14/2005 6:38 PM] <Deepal> dims : if we make service name uniquq
[9/14/2005 6:38 PM] <chamikara> glen: of cource :)
[9/14/2005 6:38 PM] <Ajith> I mean if you think of a remote server scenario
[9/14/2005 6:38 PM] <Deepal> then service author hast to knwo abt the other 
service in the system
[9/14/2005 6:39 PM] <gdaniels> (I'm not sure if that's a compliment or not! 
:))
[9/14/2005 6:39 PM] <Ajith> then making service names unique might be not so 
easy 
[9/14/2005 6:39 PM] <gdaniels> Ajith: that's a problem anyway
[9/14/2005 6:39 PM] <gdaniels> i.e. it's the same with any kind of 
deployment, even of ServiceGroups :)
[9/14/2005 6:39 PM] <gdaniels> that's why we have good error messages.
[9/14/2005 6:40 PM] <Ajith> yes but scoping the services with groups eases 
the problwm
[9/14/2005 6:40 PM] <Ajith> problem
[9/14/2005 6:40 PM] <gdaniels> "There is already a file named 'foo' in that 
directory. Are you sure you want to replace it?"
[9/14/2005 6:40 PM] <gdaniels> not really, Ajith. It just pushes it off a 
little.
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[9/14/2005 6:40 PM] <Ajith> ?
[9/14/2005 6:40 PM] <dims> what if there are 2 service groups with same name 
:)
[9/14/2005 6:41 PM] <Ajith> now you have to check only groups right
[9/14/2005 6:41 PM] <dims> with 2 services inside them with the same name
[9/14/2005 6:41 PM] <Deepal> glen wt im talking is , wt if two SG have have 
same service
[9/14/2005 6:41 PM] <Ajith> say each group having 100 services
[9/14/2005 6:41 PM] <Deepal> im=if
[9/14/2005 6:41 PM] <gdaniels> If we decide we want it, we can do it later, 
right? So for now, let's do the simpler thing and make services a flat 
namespace.
[9/14/2005 6:41 PM] <dims> we can defer the problem
[9/14/2005 6:41 PM] <Ajith> hmmm
[9/14/2005 6:41 PM] <Deepal> no I want to finalizethso
[9/14/2005 6:41 PM] <Ajith> Yeah I guess we are running out of time too
[9/14/2005 6:41 PM] <Deepal> finalize this
[9/14/2005 6:42 PM] <dims> it's final for 1.0 release
[9/14/2005 6:42 PM] <Deepal> else I can not fix that JIRA
[9/14/2005 6:42 PM] <dims> :)
[9/14/2005 6:42 PM] <Ajith> so perhaps the simpler solution is better
[9/14/2005 6:42 PM] <gdaniels> Deepal: Since an SG is essentially an aar, 
you're asking "what if two services in different aars have the same name?" 
Well, that's a problem we already have now even for single services.
[9/14/2005 6:42 PM] <dims> We don't have much time...let's run with this.
[9/14/2005 6:43 PM] <Deepal> ok , then
[9/14/2005 6:43 PM] <gdaniels> IMHO, we should consider disallowing names 
from being different than the file name of the service directory/aar....
[9/14/2005 6:43 PM] <gdaniels> (but that only works in the single-service 
case)
[9/14/2005 6:43 PM] <gdaniels> (never mind :))
[9/14/2005 6:44 PM] <Deepal> then for SG
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[9/14/2005 6:44 PM] <dims> hehe
[9/14/2005 6:45 PM] <Deepal> i mean service inside a SG
[9/14/2005 6:45 PM] <Deepal> foo.arr with S1 and S2 
[9/14/2005 6:45 PM] <Deepal> bar.arr with S1 and S3
[9/14/2005 6:45 PM] <Deepal> how do we neet traet
[9/14/2005 6:45 PM] <Deepal> treat
[9/14/2005 6:46 PM] <gdaniels> Deepal: that would be a deployment error
[9/14/2005 6:46 PM] <Deepal> if so we are done
[9/14/2005 6:46 PM] <gdaniels> already an S1 when you deploy bar.aar
[9/14/2005 6:46 PM] <Deepal> dims : now we can move to some other problem :)
[9/14/2005 6:46 PM] <dims> great
[9/14/2005 6:47 PM] <gdaniels> I do really think that the hierarchical 
naming idea is worth thinking about later, btw. :)
[9/14/2005 6:47 PM] <gdaniels> So want to discuss this naming thing with 
Context/Description/etc?
[9/14/2005 6:47 PM] <dims> REST approach?
[9/14/2005 6:47 PM] <Thilina> He He He
[9/14/2005 6:48 PM] <gdaniels> dims: now we're no longer mirroring each 
other :)
[9/14/2005 6:48 PM] <dims> :)
[9/14/2005 6:48 PM] <Deepal> glen :-?
[9/14/2005 6:48 PM] <Deepal> glen : are u talking abt the mail
[9/14/2005 6:48 PM] <gdaniels> Does anyone have a pointer to when we changed 
AxisOperation -> OperationDescription, btw?
[9/14/2005 6:48 PM] <gdaniels> Deepal: yes
[9/14/2005 6:49 PM] <Ajith> I thought it was ages ago
[9/14/2005 6:50 PM] <Deepal> it was a final resulat of a big war :)
[9/14/2005 6:51 PM] <gdaniels> IMHO, AxisService/AxisOperation are much 
nicer than ServiceDescription/OperationDescription, but we don't have to 
reopen that I guess. I just want to read the transcripts. :)
[9/14/2005 6:52 PM] <gdaniels> (it's like watching the History Channel)
[9/14/2005 6:53 PM] <Ajith> :)
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[9/14/2005 6:53 PM] <gdaniels> I guess we can finish that discussion on the 
mailing list.... dims you wanted to talk REST?
[9/14/2005 6:53 PM] <csj> hi all..
[9/14/2005 6:54 PM] <Deepal> Ihi csj : we like to know u
[9/14/2005 6:54 PM] <csj> anyone familiar with wss4j or know where I can 
find some help on wss4j on IRC
[9/14/2005 6:54 PM] <dims> gdaniels: no :)
[9/14/2005 6:54 PM] <Ajith> Ruchith ?
[9/14/2005 6:54 PM] * dims waves to csj
[9/14/2005 6:54 PM] * csj waves back :)
[9/14/2005 6:55 PM] <ruchith> I'm not sure whehter we have an IRC channel 
for WSS4J
[9/14/2005 6:55 PM] <csj> I've been finding the mailing list hard to get my 
questions across.. or all my questsion in my emails answered
[9/14/2005 6:56 PM] <dims> csj: let's move this to #apache-wss4j to let 
these guys continue here
[9/14/2005 6:56 PM] <csj> dims : sure..
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[9/14/2005 6:56 PM] <gdaniels> well, folks - I need to hop in the shower and 
head to the office.... sorry to take off early!
[9/14/2005 6:56 PM] <dims> bye glen
[9/14/2005 6:56 PM] <gdaniels> talk to you all via email/yahoo :)
[9/14/2005 6:57 PM] <Ajith> yep
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[9/14/2005 6:57 PM] <gdaniels> bye4now!
[9/14/2005 6:57 PM] <Ajith> Byee
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[9/14/2005 6:57 PM] <Thilina> byeeeee
[9/14/2005 6:58 PM] <Ajith> mmmm are we done ?
[9/14/2005 6:58 PM] <dims> looks like it...
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[9/14/2005 6:59 PM] <Ajith> I'll post the chat log then
[9/14/2005 6:59 PM] <dims> bye all
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-- 
Ajith Ranabahu