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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com> on 2007/08/29 23:02:53 UTC
[PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Hello all!
I am Janne Jalkanen, the lead developer of the open source wiki
engine called JSPWiki, and I have a proposal for your enjoyment.
This proposal is available in the web at http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/
ApacheJSPWikiProposal, should you wish to help us to make it better.
/Janne
---------
Abstract
Apache JSPWiki will be a modular and user-extensible wiki-engine,
based on the open source JSPWiki software.
Proposal
JSPWiki is a wiki engine available under the Lesser General Public
License. It has a very modular construction, and integrates
relatively nicely with a bunch of enterprise systems. It is also
inherently embeddable, and has been incorporated as a component in a
few different commercial and open source products.
The latest JSPWiki, 2.6, supports AJAX and full I18N, pluggable
backends, pluggable editors, an expressive markup, a plugin
framework, a filter framework, and built-in URL rewriting.
JSPWiki also has a nice unit test set of over 700 unit tests which
have been invaluable in keeping compatibility between releases.
Background
In the past few years, wikis have become a common collaborative tool.
They are light-weight, open, and easy to deploy. The English
Wikipedia, currently the largest public wiki site, contains nearly
two million pages.
Wikis were originally designed to be small group collaboration tools,
but they have proven to be scalable to a large number of users, as
evidenced by the Wikipedia example. However, their most common use is
still within companies and other entities which deploy them as
collaboration tools, augmenting and even replacing traditional CSCW
tools.
JSPWiki was originally created to address the same group
collaboration tool needs as so many other wiki engines. Its goals
were from the start to provide extensibility and user power, while
keeping the core functionality clear. Since it’s inception in 2001,
it has grown to be one of the more popular open source wikiengines,
at least in the Java arena. It currently ships with the Sun Portal
Server 7, and features as an integral part of the Intland Codebeamer
development environment.
Rationale
JSPWiki has grown nicely over the past few years, and currently
averages around 2000 downloads monthly. The users-list has at the
writing of this 207 members, and the developers mailing list has 34
members. There are currently six people with commit access to the CVS
codebase.
However, there is a chasm to how large an open source project can
grow under a ”benevolent dictator” –model. Many corporations are
relying on the JSPWiki code base, and joining Apache would lessen the
risks involved in using it, thus giving more entities an opportunity
to use this advanced project. Joining Apache would make us less
dependent on individual developers and would strengthen our community.
We also feel that the introduction of Apache processes would increase
the code quality, as well as bring more interested developers to this
project.
Apache is also lacking a wiki engine. It is currently using either
commercial software (Confluence) or Python-based wiki software
(MoinMoin) as its own projects. As wikis are becoming the workhorse
of many projects, we feel that it would bring a good addition to the
Apache community.
Initial Goals
The initial goals of the project is to release JSPWiki 2.8 under the
Apache license:
* Bring in the JSPWiki 2.6 stable code base into Apache and
apply Apache licensing and remove incompatible dependencies (see
ApacheRelicensing for more discussion.)
* Release JSPWiki 2.8 as a clone of JSPWiki 2.6 - with some bug
fixes and Apache licensing, however keeping compatibility with
JSPWiki 2.6. This means that we cannot e.g. change the package naming
from "com.ecyrd.jspwiki" or else all old plugins will fail. It is yet
unclear whether this will be acceptable to ASF.
After that, we will start working on JSPWiki 3.0:
* Clean up our metadata and backend support by adding JSR-170
repository support
* Adoption of a more flexible web framework (Stripes, an Apache-
licensed project)
* Multi-wiki support (so-called WikiFarms, or WikiWebs or
WikiSpaces)
* Move to "org.apache.jspwiki" -structure, breaking
compatibility with 2.x series
* Cleanup of the APIs and some refactoring which has been due
for a long time
Current Status
JSPWiki code base is relatively stable, and even though some parts
are certainly showing their age, the code is clearly laid out (we
originally used the Avalon coding conventions, but since then it has
been slightly modified), and is often thanked for its clarity. We use
the Facade and Adapter patterns extensively across JSPWiki.
The current development practice has mostly been a Linux-like
"benevolent dictator" -model. There have been no major clashes on the
mailing lists, and the community tends to be helpful, even if
sometimes a little slow in helping others.
Meritocracy
JSPWiki has always tried to grant commit access to people who have
proven themselves as willing and capable of contributing to the code
base, UI design, documentation, etc. We will certainly continue this
practice, as it has proven to be very useful. We hope that the Apache
process will make it even more practical.
Community
JSPWiki has existed since 2001, and during its life, the community
has been growing steadily. Currently there is some 200-odd members on
the jspwiki-users mailing list, and 34 members on the jspwiki-dev-
users mailing list.
JSPWiki has also been a subject of some scientific papers, and is
used as a development platform.
Core Developers
The core developers consist of Janne Jalkanen (Finnish, the original
lead developer and still the person with the most commits), Andrew
Jaquith (USA, a security guru), Dirk Frederickx (Belgium, our user
experience specialist), Christoph Sauer (Germany, the maintainer of
the WikiWizard editor), and Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez (Spain, the
i18n specialist).
We are a diverse group, though concentrated mostly in the Western
countries.
Alignment
We use Tomcat as our main development platform, and we are already
using a large number of Apache components from Log4j and regexps to
Commons Lang.
In the future, we are planning to turn our backend to use JSR-170,
which makes Apache Jackrabbit an obvious bit of the future, though
the migration from our current repository model is still unclear.
Our coding rules are also based on Apache Avalon coding rules.
Known Risks
Changing a large code base from one license to another always entails
risks. There may be users who might object to moving from GNU to
Apache on idealistic grounds, but most of the users will probably
take a pragmatic approach.
Another problem may be if we cannot locate suitable non-GPL options
for our components. This may mean long delays, as we may need to
develop alternatives ourselves.
Also, the move is likely – at least initially – to divert resources
from development to bureucracy. This is likely to strain a nerve or
two. This can hopefully be mitigated by the Mentors by providing
clear guidance.
To be fully blunt, I (Janne Jalkanen) also feel a bit queasy on
giving control of JSPWiki – my pet, which I have groomed for many
years – away to a foundation. However, this is something which is
better in long term for JSPWiki, and therefore it is worth the
sacrifices.
JSPWiki 2.8 is designed to be a low-risk, low-hanging-fruit type of a
release, assuming that ASF is fine with the package not being in the
"org.apache" hierarchy. If not, we have no choice but to wait until
3.0 since breaking the binary compatibility twice in a row would mean
problems for all developers.
Orphaned products
Since JSPWiki has been lead using a ”benevolent dictator” –model, the
largest knowledge of the code base rests on Janne Jalkanen. Janne has
no plans to leave JSPWiki development, but certainly there is a need
to get more people who have an intimate knowledge of the code base
(and the decisions thereof).
Inexperience with Open Source
JSPWiki was started as an open source project in June 2001, and has
remained an open source project since. Issue tracking and mailing
lists have been open to everyone from day one.
Homogenous Developers
The current list of committers includes people from five countries,
four timezones and two continents. Regular patches come in also from
other countries.
Reliance on Salaried Developers
There are currently no people on the committer list who get paid to
work on JSPWiki. However, we do get patches from a number of
companies with a vested interest in JSPWiki.
JSPWiki is in no way reliant on salaried coders.
Relationships with Other Apache Products
JSPWiki uses quite a few different Apache projects already, and, of
course, runs on top of Tomcat (though it has been developed to be
pure J2EE only and in no way relies on any specific functionality).
In the future, we expect to integrate somewhat with Jackrabbit.
A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand
JSPWiki could continue on its own, no worries. However, we do feel
that our customers and users would feel more comfortable if there was
a ”name” attached to it – because it lessens the risk of JSPWiki just
going away some day.
To be frank, we are more interested in the Apache processes and the
stability Apache would bring to the project than the actual name. We
also hope that Apache will adopt us as their wiki solution ;-)
Documentation
The chief JSPWiki resource is the http://www.jspwiki.org/ web site.
It is further amended by the JSPWiki documentation site (http://
doc.jspwiki.org/2.4) as well as the JSPWiki-users and JSPWiki-dev
mailing list archives at http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-users/
and http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-dev/.
Initial Source
There is an initial source base of approximately 70,000 lines of
code. (According to an estimate by the Ohloh code search engine, this
amounts to roughly 17 person years).
Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan
* jspwiki.org domain from Janne Jalkanen
* JSPWiki source code from all contributors (CLAs need to be done)
External Dependencies
JSPWiki is relying already extensively on a number of Apache-licensed
libraries. However, we are also using some LGPL-based libraries,
which will either need to be replaced or rewritten. The current list
of dependencies and the migration plan is available here:
http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ApacheRelicensing
Cryptography
JSPWiki uses only cryptography methods (hash codes) available in the
J2SE itself. There is one exception to this rule, however: we use a
slightly modified version of the Apache Tomcat's HexUtils for
converting byte arrays into hexadecimal digits.
(org.apache.catalina.util.HexUtils).
Required Resources
Mailing lists
JSPWiki currently operates on two mailing lists - jspwiki-
users@jspwiki.org, and jspwiki-dev@jspwiki.org. It would be good to
continue these both also under Apache Incubation, with the addition
of the mandatory jspwiki-private. A jspwiki-commits -list might also
be useful.
* jspwiki-users (contains the existing members of the jspwiki-
users)
* jspwiki-dev (the members of the existing jspwiki-dev)
* jspwiki-commits (new list for announcing commits to the svn
repository)
* jspwiki-private (for the PPMC, with moderated subscriptions)
Subversion Directory
JSPWiki code base should be named ”jspwiki”, as in
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jspwiki
Issue Tracking
Current JSPWiki bug tracking is done at http://bugs.jspwiki.org/,
using Bugzilla 3.0. It would be good to be able to move the current
bug list to the Apache Bugzilla. The project name should be "JSPWiki".
If the bug list cannot be moved, then we can continue to use the
JSPWiki bug tracker.
Other Resources
* www.jspwiki.org website
* doc.jspwiki.org
* blog.jspwiki.org
* sandbox.jspwiki.org (wiped at noon GMT with a custom script).
* bugs.jspwiki.org
Some or all of these can be moved to Apache. However, deeper
discussions need to be made on which ones Apache is willing to host.
Initial Committers
* Janne Jalkanen (jalkanen@ecyrd.com)
* Andrew Jaquith (andrew@freshcookies.org)
* Dirk Frederickx (dirk.frederickx@gmail.com)
* Christoph Sauer (sauer@hs-heilbronn.de)
* Juan Pablo Santos Rodríquez (juanpablo.santos@gmail.com)
* Murray Altheim (murray07@altheim.com)
None of the initial committers have yet submitted a CLA.
Affiliations
Janne Jalkanen works as a Project Manager in Nokia, but his work has
nothing to do with JSPWiki.
Andrew Jaquith is a senior analyst at Yankee Group, an ICT research
and consulting firm. He covers security for Yankee. Nokia, curiously,
is one of Yankee's customers, but apparently not the part that Janne
works for. :)
Christoph Sauer is a researcher at the Heilbronn University, Germany.
He is a Project Manager at the Heilbronn Universities i3G Institute,
which offers business services for small and medium sized companies.
Juan Pablo Santos works as a Software Engineer in Secuenzia, an IT
consulting firm in Madrid.
Sponsors
Champion
Champion: Dave Johnson
Nominated Mentors
People who have announced their willingness to be Mentors are
* Dave Johnson
* Sam Ruby
* Henning Schmiedehausen
Sponsoring Entity
Sponsoring entity should be the Incubator.
PPMC
The PPMC shall consist of initial committers and the Mentors.
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Re: Joining the PMC (was: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki)
Posted by Dave <sn...@gmail.com>.
On 9/8/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Dave Johnson wrote:
>
> > Yes! I'd like to sign up for the Incubator project and Infra to help out.
>
> OK, I want to be clear, and then I'll get the process done. You are asking
> to join the Incubator PMC, and volunteering as a Mentor for JSPWiki?
>
> The infrastructure side of your offer is best addressed on that group's
> lists, as I am sure you realize. :-)
Yes. I would like to join the Incubator PMC. What do I need to do to
make that happen?
- Dave
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Joining the PMC (was: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki)
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Dave Johnson wrote:
> Yes! I'd like to sign up for the Incubator project and Infra to help out.
OK, I want to be clear, and then I'll get the process done. You are asking
to join the Incubator PMC, and volunteering as a Mentor for JSPWiki?
The infrastructure side of your offer is best addressed on that group's
lists, as I am sure you realize. :-)
--- Noel
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Dave <sn...@gmail.com>.
On 9/5/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Dave Johnson wrote:
>
> > Big +1 on JSPWiki.
>
> > There may be some issues with getting [JSPWiki] up and running on Apache
> > infrastructure, which will be necessary for this effort, but I think
> > we can overcome those.
>
> Volunteering? ;-)
Yes! I'd like to sign up for the Incubator project and Infra to help out.
- Dave
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com>.
>> Well, let me put it this way: it would be kinda dumb to run our
>> public wiki site on another wiki engine. ;-)
>
>
> Dumb? So we must already be dumb, then, to be running other things
> like JVMs
> that don't come from the ASF, rather than our own.
Nonono, what I meant was that it would be odd to have www.jspwiki.org
running on Confluence or Moin Moin - it would look like we are not
eating our own dog food.
> It's not at all clear from that list that those are wikis and not just
> regular web sites. Does JSPWiki have an auto-export capability, like
> Confluence does, so that pages can be offloaded to static
> resources, instead
> of hitting the wiki all the time?
All of the resources listed are wikis (except, obviously, the mailing
list. Even the blog is a wiki, though it is not open to the general
public to edit). There is an external tool which allows a full or
subset of files to be turned into static HTML resources, if
necessary, but we do not currently provide one ourselves.
> You'll need a dedicated team of people, not just one person, that is
> committed to doing this on an ongoing basis.
Very true. Being a "hobby project" has allowed us to be somewhat
lenient towards things like web site availability (though having said
that, we have two maintainers in two timezones, and in general our
downtimes happen only when we upgrade something). This is one of the
questions highlighted in our proposal, and help from the ASF is
needed towards resolving these - I can't tell you how to run your
services :-)
/Janne
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com>.
> Is there a roadmap for when JSPWiki will have all of the features and
> functionality of both Confluence and MoinMoin, including the
> Confluence
> macros we use, and the migration tools so that we can move all the
> existing
> data from these existing wikis to JSPWiki? Without that, I don't
> see us
> replacing our existing wikis with JSPWiki, and I'm absolutely not
> in favour
> of adding a third wiki flavour to our infrastructure.
>
> Is this the real reason JSPWiki wants to come to the ASF? To be the
> wiki
> that the ASF runs on?
Well, frankly, I don't really care what other projects are
running :-). It's up to each project to choose the kind of
infrastructure they choose. And I certainly see the point of not
complicating the infrastructure.
But, over time, migration tools will certainly emerge. We have so
far not really been working on such things, as it hasn't really been
a priority. Whether then the decision is made by ASF to adopt
JSPWiki as an official tool is pretty much out of my hands. I would
certainly like to see it happen, and can offer help, but I'm not
exactly holding my breath. It's certainly not a driving factor in
this whole transition. The way I see it, it's a decision that ASF
will do based on ASF's own needs :-)
/Janne
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On 9/6/07, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
>
> > What do you mean? Apache does not have needed lower level projects to
> > run JSPWiki?
> > How about Tomcat+Harmony?
>
> Well, let me put it this way: it would be kinda dumb to run our
> public wiki site on another wiki engine. ;-)
Dumb? So we must already be dumb, then, to be running other things like JVMs
that don't come from the ASF, rather than our own.
Is there a roadmap for when JSPWiki will have all of the features and
functionality of both Confluence and MoinMoin, including the Confluence
macros we use, and the migration tools so that we can move all the existing
data from these existing wikis to JSPWiki? Without that, I don't see us
replacing our existing wikis with JSPWiki, and I'm absolutely not in favour
of adding a third wiki flavour to our infrastructure.
Is this the real reason JSPWiki wants to come to the ASF? To be the wiki
that the ASF runs on?
We also have separate documentation and sandbox wikis.
>
> http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ApacheJSPWikiProposal#section-
> ApacheJSPWikiProposal-RequiredResources
It's not at all clear from that list that those are wikis and not just
regular web sites. Does JSPWiki have an auto-export capability, like
Confluence does, so that pages can be offloaded to static resources, instead
of hitting the wiki all the time?
A tomcat instance is fine (preferably non-shared; JSPWiki cannot be
> deployed simply from a war file right now), and I can offer to run
> some of the wiki sites (e.g. the sandbox, which is wiped out
> regularly) myself.
You'll need a dedicated team of people, not just one person, that is
committed to doing this on an ongoing basis.
--
Martin Cooper
/Janne
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Alexey Petrenko <al...@gmail.com>.
Yep, I got your point.
I've personally thought about possibility for users to run JSPWiki on
full Apache stack.
This could be nice out-of-the-box bundle: JSPWiki+Tomcat+Harmony
SY, Alexey
2007/9/6, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com>:
> > What do you mean? Apache does not have needed lower level projects to
> > run JSPWiki?
> > How about Tomcat+Harmony?
>
> Well, let me put it this way: it would be kinda dumb to run our
> public wiki site on another wiki engine. ;-)
>
> We also have separate documentation and sandbox wikis.
>
> http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ApacheJSPWikiProposal#section-
> ApacheJSPWikiProposal-RequiredResources
>
> A tomcat instance is fine (preferably non-shared; JSPWiki cannot be
> deployed simply from a war file right now), and I can offer to run
> some of the wiki sites (e.g. the sandbox, which is wiped out
> regularly) myself.
>
> /Janne
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com>.
> What do you mean? Apache does not have needed lower level projects to
> run JSPWiki?
> How about Tomcat+Harmony?
Well, let me put it this way: it would be kinda dumb to run our
public wiki site on another wiki engine. ;-)
We also have separate documentation and sandbox wikis.
http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ApacheJSPWikiProposal#section-
ApacheJSPWikiProposal-RequiredResources
A tomcat instance is fine (preferably non-shared; JSPWiki cannot be
deployed simply from a war file right now), and I can offer to run
some of the wiki sites (e.g. the sandbox, which is wiped out
regularly) myself.
/Janne
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Alexey Petrenko <al...@gmail.com>.
2007/9/4, Dave <sn...@gmail.com>:
> Big +1 on JSPWiki. I've been a fan for years of the software and the
> community that drives it forward. There may be some issues with
> getting the JSPWiki web application up and running on Apache
> infrastructure, which will be necessary for this effort
What do you mean? Apache does not have needed lower level projects to
run JSPWiki?
How about Tomcat+Harmony?
Have not review JSPWiki requirements yet actually.
SY, Alexey
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RE: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Dave Johnson wrote:
> Big +1 on JSPWiki.
> There may be some issues with getting [JSPWiki] up and running on Apache
> infrastructure, which will be necessary for this effort, but I think
> we can overcome those.
Volunteering? ;-)
--- Noel
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Dave <sn...@gmail.com>.
Big +1 on JSPWiki. I've been a fan for years of the software and the
community that drives it forward. There may be some issues with
getting the JSPWiki web application up and running on Apache
infrastructure, which will be necessary for this effort, but I think
we can overcome those.
- Dave
On 8/30/07, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
> > This is interesting. Have you seen, that we are currently voting on
> > the
> > Jackrabbit list to enter Sling into the incubator. You may find more
> > information at [1].
>
> Yes, actually I did. I think it is something we can consider
> later. JSPWiki needs to do quite a lot of things internally than
> just render content, so it is yet unclear how that could possibly be
> applied and whether it would fit our needs. I mean - at the moment
> we don't really need Sling for anything, because we already have
> everything in place, and we don't have any pressing needs to change it.
>
> But I'm certainly keeping my eyes open on that one. :-)
>
> /Janne
>
>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com>.
> This is interesting. Have you seen, that we are currently voting on
> the
> Jackrabbit list to enter Sling into the incubator. You may find more
> information at [1].
Yes, actually I did. I think it is something we can consider
later. JSPWiki needs to do quite a lot of things internally than
just render content, so it is yet unclear how that could possibly be
applied and whether it would fit our needs. I mean - at the moment
we don't really need Sling for anything, because we already have
everything in place, and we don't have any pressing needs to change it.
But I'm certainly keeping my eyes open on that one. :-)
/Janne
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Felix Meschberger <fm...@gmail.com>.
Hi Janne,
Am Donnerstag, den 30.08.2007, 00:02 +0300 schrieb Janne Jalkanen:
> Abstract
>
> Apache JSPWiki will be a modular and user-extensible wiki-engine,
> based on the open source JSPWiki software.
> ...
> * Clean up our metadata and backend support by adding JSR-170
> repository support
> * Adoption of a more flexible web framework (Stripes, an Apache-
> licensed project)
This is interesting. Have you seen, that we are currently voting on the
Jackrabbit list to enter Sling into the incubator. You may find more
information at [1].
I could imagine, that this would probably be very helpful for your
project.
Regards
Felix
[1] http://wiki.apache.org/jackrabbit/ApacheSling
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RE: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
In general, if there are any questions about IP and/or licensing, you can
check with the PMC, and we can go to the Legal Committee.
> Also, things like JavaMail libraries are highly useful for our user
> experience (e.g. sending email in case the user forgets his
> password). If there is an Apache-compatible implementation
> available, then fine.
JAMES ships with a CDDL version of JavaMail, dropping the non-CDDL version.
We wish there were a properly licensed JavaMail, but CDDL is as close as we
come for JavaMail until/unless someone wants to work on the shell currently
in Geronimo.
--- Noel
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Gwyn Evans <gw...@gmail.com>.
On Thursday, September 6, 2007, 6:18:42 PM, Janne <Ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
> On 6 Sep 2007, at 17:20, Gwyn Evans wrote:
>> While agreeing that it's something that needs looking at closely, I'm
>> not I'm not sure it's downbeat as I think you're suggesting. The
>> 3rd-party licencing policy at http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
>> redirects to the draft at http://people.apache.org/~rubys/3party.html,
>> but that suggests that, especially for use in binary form, licences
>> such as CDDL or CPL aren't necessarily incompatible...
> That is exactly where the "category B" is coming from. Do we need to
> wait until ASF gets the 3rd party license policy completed?
I'd expect not, if for no other reason than we (Wicket) recently came
out of incubation under that sort of policy, including using some
libraries licensed under MIT, BSD and CDDL!
> Please note that it would be *impossible* for us to work without some
> of the category B libraries, such as the JUnit testing library.
Well, IANAL, but it seems to me that JUnit specifically's not going to
be a problem, as the focus is on things you deliver, as opposed to
something that you just use during the build.
> Also, things like JavaMail libraries are highly useful for our user
> experience (e.g. sending email in case the user forgets his
> password). If there is an Apache-compatible implementation
> available, then fine.
That's in the deliverables, but as long as you follow the draft,
e.g. getting the NOTICE file correct, I can't see a problem.
> There are some custom licenses out there where we would need help
> from ASF's lawyers to check whether the licenses are really ok.
> Having to reimplement e.g. a permissive HTML-parser or a caching
> library would be a real PITA.
Indeed.
/Gwyn
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com>.
On 6 Sep 2007, at 17:20, Gwyn Evans wrote:
> While agreeing that it's something that needs looking at closely, I'm
> not I'm not sure it's downbeat as I think you're suggesting. The
> 3rd-party licencing policy at http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
> redirects to the draft at http://people.apache.org/~rubys/3party.html,
> but that suggests that, especially for use in binary form, licences
> such as CDDL or CPL aren't necessarily incompatible...
That is exactly where the "category B" is coming from. Do we need to
wait until ASF gets the 3rd party license policy completed?
Please note that it would be *impossible* for us to work without some
of the category B libraries, such as the JUnit testing library.
Also, things like JavaMail libraries are highly useful for our user
experience (e.g. sending email in case the user forgets his
password). If there is an Apache-compatible implementation
available, then fine.
There are some custom licenses out there where we would need help
from ASF's lawyers to check whether the licenses are really ok.
Having to reimplement e.g. a permissive HTML-parser or a caching
library would be a real PITA.
/Janne
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Matthieu Riou <ma...@offthelip.org>.
On 9/6/07, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 9/6/07, Gwyn Evans <gw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > While agreeing that it's something that needs looking at closely, I'm
> > not I'm not sure it's downbeat as I think you're suggesting. The
> > 3rd-party licencing policy at http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
> > redirects to the draft at http://people.apache.org/~rubys/3party.html,
> > but that suggests that, especially for use in binary form, licences
> > such as CDDL or CPL aren't necessarily incompatible...
>
>
> Right. However, as you noted, that's a draft, so it may change. I hope it
> does.
>
> My concern is that as soon as we bundle components with other licenses
> into
> distributions of ASF projects, we compromise the integrity of the ASF
> itself
> in the eyes of the outside world. For one thing, not all consumers of
> those
> projects see the different licenses in the same light. For another, many
> many consumers of ASF projects assume that something coming out of the ASF
> will be licensed under the Apache License *only*.
There's best practices and there's policy. The predominant use of ASL
license should definitely be best practice (and I believe it's properly
emphasized in the "guiding Principles" of this document) but not policy, be
it just for pragmatic reasons. Besides removing BSD or MIT dependencies just
because they're not ASL doesn't make much sense.
But as far as JSPWiki is concerned, my understanding of the incubator is
that it's precisely meant as a transitional environment where projects can
solve these issues.
As a concrete example, look at Axis. At some point in its lifetime, WSDL4J
> was added to the distribution, and that's licensed under the CPL. Someone
> coming in and looking at Axis might reasonably assume that it's licensed
> under the Apache License, and not be aware that there's another license
> hiding in there. If that someone was a company (e.g. my employer) that
> forbids the use of CPL-licensed software, that can have very serious
> consequences, especially if the package was already in use before the
> dependency was introduced.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> /Gwyn
> >
> > On Thursday, September 6, 2007, 3:49:09 PM, Martin <ma...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I'm concerned about all of the 3rd party dependencies that use quite a
> > > variety of other licenses. The relicensing page says "Category B:
> Keep"
> > for
> > > many of these. I'm not clear on where the "Category B" part comes
> from,
> > but
> > > I don't believe that some of these can be kept. Some of the licenses,
> > such
> > > as CPL, have IP provisions in them that are most likely incompatible
> > with
> > > the Apache License 2.0, so I believe those components would have to go
> > as
> > > well. Am with most folks here, IANAL, but this is something that would
> > have
> > > to be looked at closely to make sure that JSPWiki can in fact end up
> > under
> > > an Apache License.
> >
> > > --
> > > Martin Cooper
> >
> >
> > > On 8/29/07, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hello all!
> > >>
> > >> I am Janne Jalkanen, the lead developer of the open source wiki
> > >> engine called JSPWiki, and I have a proposal for your enjoyment.
> > >> This proposal is available in the web at http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/
> > >> ApacheJSPWikiProposal, should you wish to help us to make it better.
> > >>
> > >> /Janne
> > >>
> > >> ---------
> > >>
> > >> Abstract
> > >>
> > >> Apache JSPWiki will be a modular and user-extensible wiki-engine,
> > >> based on the open source JSPWiki software.
> > >>
> > >> Proposal
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki is a wiki engine available under the Lesser General Public
> > >> License. It has a very modular construction, and integrates
> > >> relatively nicely with a bunch of enterprise systems. It is also
> > >> inherently embeddable, and has been incorporated as a component in a
> > >> few different commercial and open source products.
> > >>
> > >> The latest JSPWiki, 2.6, supports AJAX and full I18N, pluggable
> > >> backends, pluggable editors, an expressive markup, a plugin
> > >> framework, a filter framework, and built-in URL rewriting.
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki also has a nice unit test set of over 700 unit tests which
> > >> have been invaluable in keeping compatibility between releases.
> > >> Background
> > >>
> > >> In the past few years, wikis have become a common collaborative tool.
> > >> They are light-weight, open, and easy to deploy. The English
> > >> Wikipedia, currently the largest public wiki site, contains nearly
> > >> two million pages.
> > >>
> > >> Wikis were originally designed to be small group collaboration tools,
> > >> but they have proven to be scalable to a large number of users, as
> > >> evidenced by the Wikipedia example. However, their most common use is
> > >> still within companies and other entities which deploy them as
> > >> collaboration tools, augmenting and even replacing traditional CSCW
> > >> tools.
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki was originally created to address the same group
> > >> collaboration tool needs as so many other wiki engines. Its goals
> > >> were from the start to provide extensibility and user power, while
> > >> keeping the core functionality clear. Since it's inception in 2001,
> > >> it has grown to be one of the more popular open source wikiengines,
> > >> at least in the Java arena. It currently ships with the Sun Portal
> > >> Server 7, and features as an integral part of the Intland Codebeamer
> > >> development environment.
> > >>
> > >> Rationale
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki has grown nicely over the past few years, and currently
> > >> averages around 2000 downloads monthly. The users-list has at the
> > >> writing of this 207 members, and the developers mailing list has 34
> > >> members. There are currently six people with commit access to the CVS
> > >> codebase.
> > >>
> > >> However, there is a chasm to how large an open source project can
> > >> grow under a "benevolent dictator" –model. Many corporations are
> > >> relying on the JSPWiki code base, and joining Apache would lessen the
> > >> risks involved in using it, thus giving more entities an opportunity
> > >> to use this advanced project. Joining Apache would make us less
> > >> dependent on individual developers and would strengthen our
> community.
> > >>
> > >> We also feel that the introduction of Apache processes would increase
> > >> the code quality, as well as bring more interested developers to this
> > >> project.
> > >>
> > >> Apache is also lacking a wiki engine. It is currently using either
> > >> commercial software (Confluence) or Python-based wiki software
> > >> (MoinMoin) as its own projects. As wikis are becoming the workhorse
> > >> of many projects, we feel that it would bring a good addition to the
> > >> Apache community.
> > >>
> > >> Initial Goals
> > >>
> > >> The initial goals of the project is to release JSPWiki 2.8 under the
> > >> Apache license:
> > >>
> > >> * Bring in the JSPWiki 2.6 stable code base into Apache and
> > >> apply Apache licensing and remove incompatible dependencies (see
> > >> ApacheRelicensing for more discussion.)
> > >> * Release JSPWiki 2.8 as a clone of JSPWiki 2.6 - with some bug
> > >> fixes and Apache licensing, however keeping compatibility with
> > >> JSPWiki 2.6. This means that we cannot e.g. change the package naming
> > >> from "com.ecyrd.jspwiki" or else all old plugins will fail. It is yet
> > >> unclear whether this will be acceptable to ASF.
> > >>
> > >> After that, we will start working on JSPWiki 3.0:
> > >>
> > >> * Clean up our metadata and backend support by adding JSR-170
> > >> repository support
> > >> * Adoption of a more flexible web framework (Stripes, an Apache-
> > >> licensed project)
> > >> * Multi-wiki support (so-called WikiFarms, or WikiWebs or
> > >> WikiSpaces)
> > >> * Move to "org.apache.jspwiki" -structure, breaking
> > >> compatibility with 2.x series
> > >> * Cleanup of the APIs and some refactoring which has been due
> > >> for a long time
> > >>
> > >> Current Status
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki code base is relatively stable, and even though some parts
> > >> are certainly showing their age, the code is clearly laid out (we
> > >> originally used the Avalon coding conventions, but since then it has
> > >> been slightly modified), and is often thanked for its clarity. We use
> > >> the Facade and Adapter patterns extensively across JSPWiki.
> > >>
> > >> The current development practice has mostly been a Linux-like
> > >> "benevolent dictator" -model. There have been no major clashes on the
> > >> mailing lists, and the community tends to be helpful, even if
> > >> sometimes a little slow in helping others.
> > >>
> > >> Meritocracy
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki has always tried to grant commit access to people who have
> > >> proven themselves as willing and capable of contributing to the code
> > >> base, UI design, documentation, etc. We will certainly continue this
> > >> practice, as it has proven to be very useful. We hope that the Apache
> > >> process will make it even more practical.
> > >>
> > >> Community
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki has existed since 2001, and during its life, the community
> > >> has been growing steadily. Currently there is some 200-odd members on
> > >> the jspwiki-users mailing list, and 34 members on the jspwiki-dev-
> > >> users mailing list.
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki has also been a subject of some scientific papers, and is
> > >> used as a development platform.
> > >>
> > >> Core Developers
> > >>
> > >> The core developers consist of Janne Jalkanen (Finnish, the original
> > >> lead developer and still the person with the most commits), Andrew
> > >> Jaquith (USA, a security guru), Dirk Frederickx (Belgium, our user
> > >> experience specialist), Christoph Sauer (Germany, the maintainer of
> > >> the WikiWizard editor), and Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez (Spain, the
> > >> i18n specialist).
> > >>
> > >> We are a diverse group, though concentrated mostly in the Western
> > >> countries.
> > >>
> > >> Alignment
> > >>
> > >> We use Tomcat as our main development platform, and we are already
> > >> using a large number of Apache components from Log4j and regexps to
> > >> Commons Lang.
> > >>
> > >> In the future, we are planning to turn our backend to use JSR-170,
> > >> which makes Apache Jackrabbit an obvious bit of the future, though
> > >> the migration from our current repository model is still unclear.
> > >>
> > >> Our coding rules are also based on Apache Avalon coding rules.
> > >>
> > >> Known Risks
> > >>
> > >> Changing a large code base from one license to another always entails
> > >> risks. There may be users who might object to moving from GNU to
> > >> Apache on idealistic grounds, but most of the users will probably
> > >> take a pragmatic approach.
> > >>
> > >> Another problem may be if we cannot locate suitable non-GPL options
> > >> for our components. This may mean long delays, as we may need to
> > >> develop alternatives ourselves.
> > >>
> > >> Also, the move is likely – at least initially – to divert resources
> > >> from development to bureucracy. This is likely to strain a nerve or
> > >> two. This can hopefully be mitigated by the Mentors by providing
> > >> clear guidance.
> > >>
> > >> To be fully blunt, I (Janne Jalkanen) also feel a bit queasy on
> > >> giving control of JSPWiki – my pet, which I have groomed for many
> > >> years – away to a foundation. However, this is something which is
> > >> better in long term for JSPWiki, and therefore it is worth the
> > >> sacrifices.
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki 2.8 is designed to be a low-risk, low-hanging-fruit type of a
> > >> release, assuming that ASF is fine with the package not being in the
> > >> "org.apache" hierarchy. If not, we have no choice but to wait until
> > >> 3.0 since breaking the binary compatibility twice in a row would mean
> > >> problems for all developers.
> > >> Orphaned products
> > >>
> > >> Since JSPWiki has been lead using a "benevolent dictator" –model, the
> > >> largest knowledge of the code base rests on Janne Jalkanen. Janne has
> > >> no plans to leave JSPWiki development, but certainly there is a need
> > >> to get more people who have an intimate knowledge of the code base
> > >> (and the decisions thereof).
> > >>
> > >> Inexperience with Open Source
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki was started as an open source project in June 2001, and has
> > >> remained an open source project since. Issue tracking and mailing
> > >> lists have been open to everyone from day one.
> > >>
> > >> Homogenous Developers
> > >>
> > >> The current list of committers includes people from five countries,
> > >> four timezones and two continents. Regular patches come in also from
> > >> other countries.
> > >>
> > >> Reliance on Salaried Developers
> > >>
> > >> There are currently no people on the committer list who get paid to
> > >> work on JSPWiki. However, we do get patches from a number of
> > >> companies with a vested interest in JSPWiki.
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki is in no way reliant on salaried coders.
> > >>
> > >> Relationships with Other Apache Products
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki uses quite a few different Apache projects already, and, of
> > >> course, runs on top of Tomcat (though it has been developed to be
> > >> pure J2EE only and in no way relies on any specific functionality).
> > >>
> > >> In the future, we expect to integrate somewhat with Jackrabbit.
> > >>
> > >> A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki could continue on its own, no worries. However, we do feel
> > >> that our customers and users would feel more comfortable if there was
> > >> a "name" attached to it – because it lessens the risk of JSPWiki just
> > >> going away some day.
> > >>
> > >> To be frank, we are more interested in the Apache processes and the
> > >> stability Apache would bring to the project than the actual name. We
> > >> also hope that Apache will adopt us as their wiki solution ;-)
> > >>
> > >> Documentation
> > >>
> > >> The chief JSPWiki resource is the http://www.jspwiki.org/ web site.
> > >> It is further amended by the JSPWiki documentation site (http://
> > >> doc.jspwiki.org/2.4) as well as the JSPWiki-users and JSPWiki-dev
> > >> mailing list archives at http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-users/
> > >> and http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-dev/.
> > >>
> > >> Initial Source
> > >>
> > >> There is an initial source base of approximately 70,000 lines of
> > >> code. (According to an estimate by the Ohloh code search engine, this
> > >> amounts to roughly 17 person years).
> > >>
> > >> Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan
> > >>
> > >> * jspwiki.org domain from Janne Jalkanen
> > >> * JSPWiki source code from all contributors (CLAs need to be
> done)
> > >>
> > >> External Dependencies
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki is relying already extensively on a number of Apache-licensed
> > >> libraries. However, we are also using some LGPL-based libraries,
> > >> which will either need to be replaced or rewritten. The current list
> > >> of dependencies and the migration plan is available here:
> > >>
> > >> http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ApacheRelicensing
> > >>
> > >> Cryptography
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki uses only cryptography methods (hash codes) available in the
> > >> J2SE itself. There is one exception to this rule, however: we use a
> > >> slightly modified version of the Apache Tomcat's HexUtils for
> > >> converting byte arrays into hexadecimal digits.
> > >> (org.apache.catalina.util.HexUtils).
> > >>
> > >> Required Resources
> > >>
> > >> Mailing lists
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki currently operates on two mailing lists - jspwiki-
> > >> users@jspwiki.org, and jspwiki-dev@jspwiki.org. It would be good to
> > >> continue these both also under Apache Incubation, with the addition
> > >> of the mandatory jspwiki-private. A jspwiki-commits -list might also
> > >> be useful.
> > >>
> > >> * jspwiki-users (contains the existing members of the jspwiki-
> > >> users)
> > >> * jspwiki-dev (the members of the existing jspwiki-dev)
> > >> * jspwiki-commits (new list for announcing commits to the svn
> > >> repository)
> > >> * jspwiki-private (for the PPMC, with moderated subscriptions)
> > >>
> > >> Subversion Directory
> > >>
> > >> JSPWiki code base should be named "jspwiki", as in
> > >>
> > >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jspwiki
> > >>
> > >> Issue Tracking
> > >>
> > >> Current JSPWiki bug tracking is done at http://bugs.jspwiki.org/,
> > >> using Bugzilla 3.0. It would be good to be able to move the current
> > >> bug list to the Apache Bugzilla. The project name should be
> "JSPWiki".
> > >>
> > >> If the bug list cannot be moved, then we can continue to use the
> > >> JSPWiki bug tracker.
> > >> Other Resources
> > >>
> > >> * www.jspwiki.org website
> > >> * doc.jspwiki.org
> > >> * blog.jspwiki.org
> > >> * sandbox.jspwiki.org (wiped at noon GMT with a custom script).
> > >> * bugs.jspwiki.org
> > >>
> > >> Some or all of these can be moved to Apache. However, deeper
> > >> discussions need to be made on which ones Apache is willing to host.
> > >>
> > >> Initial Committers
> > >>
> > >> * Janne Jalkanen (jalkanen@ecyrd.com)
> > >> * Andrew Jaquith (andrew@freshcookies.org)
> > >> * Dirk Frederickx (dirk.frederickx@gmail.com)
> > >> * Christoph Sauer (sauer@hs-heilbronn.de)
> > >> * Juan Pablo Santos Rodríquez (juanpablo.santos@gmail.com)
> > >> * Murray Altheim (murray07@altheim.com)
> > >>
> > >> None of the initial committers have yet submitted a CLA.
> > >>
> > >> Affiliations
> > >>
> > >> Janne Jalkanen works as a Project Manager in Nokia, but his work has
> > >> nothing to do with JSPWiki.
> > >>
> > >> Andrew Jaquith is a senior analyst at Yankee Group, an ICT research
> > >> and consulting firm. He covers security for Yankee. Nokia, curiously,
> > >> is one of Yankee's customers, but apparently not the part that Janne
> > >> works for. :)
> > >>
> > >> Christoph Sauer is a researcher at the Heilbronn University, Germany.
> > >> He is a Project Manager at the Heilbronn Universities i3G Institute,
> > >> which offers business services for small and medium sized companies.
> > >>
> > >> Juan Pablo Santos works as a Software Engineer in Secuenzia, an IT
> > >> consulting firm in Madrid.
> > >>
> > >> Sponsors
> > >>
> > >> Champion
> > >>
> > >> Champion: Dave Johnson
> > >> Nominated Mentors
> > >>
> > >> People who have announced their willingness to be Mentors are
> > >>
> > >> * Dave Johnson
> > >> * Sam Ruby
> > >> * Henning Schmiedehausen
> > >>
> > >> Sponsoring Entity
> > >>
> > >> Sponsoring entity should be the Incubator.
> > >> PPMC
> > >>
> > >> The PPMC shall consist of initial committers and the Mentors.
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> > /Gwyn
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On 9/6/07, Garrett Rooney <ro...@electricjellyfish.net> wrote:
>
> On 9/6/07, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> > On 9/6/07, Gwyn Evans <gw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > While agreeing that it's something that needs looking at closely, I'm
> > > not I'm not sure it's downbeat as I think you're suggesting. The
> > > 3rd-party licencing policy at http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
> > > redirects to the draft at http://people.apache.org/~rubys/3party.html,
> > > but that suggests that, especially for use in binary form, licences
> > > such as CDDL or CPL aren't necessarily incompatible...
> >
> >
> > Right. However, as you noted, that's a draft, so it may change. I hope
> it
> > does.
>
> So you're expecting JSPWIki to be held to a standard that doesn't
> exist even in the draft documentation that we have for such things?
Expecting? No. Hoping for? Yes.
That seems rather extreme. I'd suggest that such discussion belongs
> on the legal discuss mailing list, as opposed to on the incubator
> list.
It does. However, I brought it up here because I see a long list of non-AL
dependencies for JSPWiki and that concerns me. I think it's fair enough to
express those concerns here, no? The fact that it's part of a greater
concern that I have for the integrity of the ASF seemed relevant to me, even
if detailed discussion of that belongs elsewhere.
--
Martin Cooper
-garrett
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Garrett Rooney <ro...@electricjellyfish.net>.
On 9/6/07, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 9/6/07, Gwyn Evans <gw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > While agreeing that it's something that needs looking at closely, I'm
> > not I'm not sure it's downbeat as I think you're suggesting. The
> > 3rd-party licencing policy at http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
> > redirects to the draft at http://people.apache.org/~rubys/3party.html,
> > but that suggests that, especially for use in binary form, licences
> > such as CDDL or CPL aren't necessarily incompatible...
>
>
> Right. However, as you noted, that's a draft, so it may change. I hope it
> does.
So you're expecting JSPWIki to be held to a standard that doesn't
exist even in the draft documentation that we have for such things?
That seems rather extreme. I'd suggest that such discussion belongs
on the legal discuss mailing list, as opposed to on the incubator
list.
-garrett
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On 9/6/07, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> As a concrete example, look at Axis. At some point in its lifetime, WSDL4J
> was added to the distribution, and that's licensed under the CPL. Someone
> coming in and looking at Axis might reasonably assume that it's licensed
> under the Apache License, and not be aware that there's another license
> hiding in there. If that someone was a company (e.g. my employer) that
> forbids the use of CPL-licensed software, that can have very serious
> consequences, especially if the package was already in use before the
> dependency was introduced.
Exactly, see [1] for a real case where this dependency caused a problem.
I personally don't see a problem in having CPL or other Class B
dependencies, but it would be good to include prominent notices on
projects that have them. Perhaps I'll follow up on legal-discuss on
the details.
In any case I'm with Garrett on not holding JSPWiki up to a standard
that we don't properly document or even follow in all cases.
[1] http://www.nabble.com/wsdl4j-license-inconsistency-tf3363493.html#a9373144
BR,
Jukka Zitting
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On 9/6/07, Gwyn Evans <gw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> While agreeing that it's something that needs looking at closely, I'm
> not I'm not sure it's downbeat as I think you're suggesting. The
> 3rd-party licencing policy at http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
> redirects to the draft at http://people.apache.org/~rubys/3party.html,
> but that suggests that, especially for use in binary form, licences
> such as CDDL or CPL aren't necessarily incompatible...
Right. However, as you noted, that's a draft, so it may change. I hope it
does.
My concern is that as soon as we bundle components with other licenses into
distributions of ASF projects, we compromise the integrity of the ASF itself
in the eyes of the outside world. For one thing, not all consumers of those
projects see the different licenses in the same light. For another, many
many consumers of ASF projects assume that something coming out of the ASF
will be licensed under the Apache License *only*.
As a concrete example, look at Axis. At some point in its lifetime, WSDL4J
was added to the distribution, and that's licensed under the CPL. Someone
coming in and looking at Axis might reasonably assume that it's licensed
under the Apache License, and not be aware that there's another license
hiding in there. If that someone was a company (e.g. my employer) that
forbids the use of CPL-licensed software, that can have very serious
consequences, especially if the package was already in use before the
dependency was introduced.
--
Martin Cooper
/Gwyn
>
> On Thursday, September 6, 2007, 3:49:09 PM, Martin <ma...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm concerned about all of the 3rd party dependencies that use quite a
> > variety of other licenses. The relicensing page says "Category B: Keep"
> for
> > many of these. I'm not clear on where the "Category B" part comes from,
> but
> > I don't believe that some of these can be kept. Some of the licenses,
> such
> > as CPL, have IP provisions in them that are most likely incompatible
> with
> > the Apache License 2.0, so I believe those components would have to go
> as
> > well. Am with most folks here, IANAL, but this is something that would
> have
> > to be looked at closely to make sure that JSPWiki can in fact end up
> under
> > an Apache License.
>
> > --
> > Martin Cooper
>
>
> > On 8/29/07, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello all!
> >>
> >> I am Janne Jalkanen, the lead developer of the open source wiki
> >> engine called JSPWiki, and I have a proposal for your enjoyment.
> >> This proposal is available in the web at http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/
> >> ApacheJSPWikiProposal, should you wish to help us to make it better.
> >>
> >> /Janne
> >>
> >> ---------
> >>
> >> Abstract
> >>
> >> Apache JSPWiki will be a modular and user-extensible wiki-engine,
> >> based on the open source JSPWiki software.
> >>
> >> Proposal
> >>
> >> JSPWiki is a wiki engine available under the Lesser General Public
> >> License. It has a very modular construction, and integrates
> >> relatively nicely with a bunch of enterprise systems. It is also
> >> inherently embeddable, and has been incorporated as a component in a
> >> few different commercial and open source products.
> >>
> >> The latest JSPWiki, 2.6, supports AJAX and full I18N, pluggable
> >> backends, pluggable editors, an expressive markup, a plugin
> >> framework, a filter framework, and built-in URL rewriting.
> >>
> >> JSPWiki also has a nice unit test set of over 700 unit tests which
> >> have been invaluable in keeping compatibility between releases.
> >> Background
> >>
> >> In the past few years, wikis have become a common collaborative tool.
> >> They are light-weight, open, and easy to deploy. The English
> >> Wikipedia, currently the largest public wiki site, contains nearly
> >> two million pages.
> >>
> >> Wikis were originally designed to be small group collaboration tools,
> >> but they have proven to be scalable to a large number of users, as
> >> evidenced by the Wikipedia example. However, their most common use is
> >> still within companies and other entities which deploy them as
> >> collaboration tools, augmenting and even replacing traditional CSCW
> >> tools.
> >>
> >> JSPWiki was originally created to address the same group
> >> collaboration tool needs as so many other wiki engines. Its goals
> >> were from the start to provide extensibility and user power, while
> >> keeping the core functionality clear. Since it's inception in 2001,
> >> it has grown to be one of the more popular open source wikiengines,
> >> at least in the Java arena. It currently ships with the Sun Portal
> >> Server 7, and features as an integral part of the Intland Codebeamer
> >> development environment.
> >>
> >> Rationale
> >>
> >> JSPWiki has grown nicely over the past few years, and currently
> >> averages around 2000 downloads monthly. The users-list has at the
> >> writing of this 207 members, and the developers mailing list has 34
> >> members. There are currently six people with commit access to the CVS
> >> codebase.
> >>
> >> However, there is a chasm to how large an open source project can
> >> grow under a "benevolent dictator" –model. Many corporations are
> >> relying on the JSPWiki code base, and joining Apache would lessen the
> >> risks involved in using it, thus giving more entities an opportunity
> >> to use this advanced project. Joining Apache would make us less
> >> dependent on individual developers and would strengthen our community.
> >>
> >> We also feel that the introduction of Apache processes would increase
> >> the code quality, as well as bring more interested developers to this
> >> project.
> >>
> >> Apache is also lacking a wiki engine. It is currently using either
> >> commercial software (Confluence) or Python-based wiki software
> >> (MoinMoin) as its own projects. As wikis are becoming the workhorse
> >> of many projects, we feel that it would bring a good addition to the
> >> Apache community.
> >>
> >> Initial Goals
> >>
> >> The initial goals of the project is to release JSPWiki 2.8 under the
> >> Apache license:
> >>
> >> * Bring in the JSPWiki 2.6 stable code base into Apache and
> >> apply Apache licensing and remove incompatible dependencies (see
> >> ApacheRelicensing for more discussion.)
> >> * Release JSPWiki 2.8 as a clone of JSPWiki 2.6 - with some bug
> >> fixes and Apache licensing, however keeping compatibility with
> >> JSPWiki 2.6. This means that we cannot e.g. change the package naming
> >> from "com.ecyrd.jspwiki" or else all old plugins will fail. It is yet
> >> unclear whether this will be acceptable to ASF.
> >>
> >> After that, we will start working on JSPWiki 3.0:
> >>
> >> * Clean up our metadata and backend support by adding JSR-170
> >> repository support
> >> * Adoption of a more flexible web framework (Stripes, an Apache-
> >> licensed project)
> >> * Multi-wiki support (so-called WikiFarms, or WikiWebs or
> >> WikiSpaces)
> >> * Move to "org.apache.jspwiki" -structure, breaking
> >> compatibility with 2.x series
> >> * Cleanup of the APIs and some refactoring which has been due
> >> for a long time
> >>
> >> Current Status
> >>
> >> JSPWiki code base is relatively stable, and even though some parts
> >> are certainly showing their age, the code is clearly laid out (we
> >> originally used the Avalon coding conventions, but since then it has
> >> been slightly modified), and is often thanked for its clarity. We use
> >> the Facade and Adapter patterns extensively across JSPWiki.
> >>
> >> The current development practice has mostly been a Linux-like
> >> "benevolent dictator" -model. There have been no major clashes on the
> >> mailing lists, and the community tends to be helpful, even if
> >> sometimes a little slow in helping others.
> >>
> >> Meritocracy
> >>
> >> JSPWiki has always tried to grant commit access to people who have
> >> proven themselves as willing and capable of contributing to the code
> >> base, UI design, documentation, etc. We will certainly continue this
> >> practice, as it has proven to be very useful. We hope that the Apache
> >> process will make it even more practical.
> >>
> >> Community
> >>
> >> JSPWiki has existed since 2001, and during its life, the community
> >> has been growing steadily. Currently there is some 200-odd members on
> >> the jspwiki-users mailing list, and 34 members on the jspwiki-dev-
> >> users mailing list.
> >>
> >> JSPWiki has also been a subject of some scientific papers, and is
> >> used as a development platform.
> >>
> >> Core Developers
> >>
> >> The core developers consist of Janne Jalkanen (Finnish, the original
> >> lead developer and still the person with the most commits), Andrew
> >> Jaquith (USA, a security guru), Dirk Frederickx (Belgium, our user
> >> experience specialist), Christoph Sauer (Germany, the maintainer of
> >> the WikiWizard editor), and Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez (Spain, the
> >> i18n specialist).
> >>
> >> We are a diverse group, though concentrated mostly in the Western
> >> countries.
> >>
> >> Alignment
> >>
> >> We use Tomcat as our main development platform, and we are already
> >> using a large number of Apache components from Log4j and regexps to
> >> Commons Lang.
> >>
> >> In the future, we are planning to turn our backend to use JSR-170,
> >> which makes Apache Jackrabbit an obvious bit of the future, though
> >> the migration from our current repository model is still unclear.
> >>
> >> Our coding rules are also based on Apache Avalon coding rules.
> >>
> >> Known Risks
> >>
> >> Changing a large code base from one license to another always entails
> >> risks. There may be users who might object to moving from GNU to
> >> Apache on idealistic grounds, but most of the users will probably
> >> take a pragmatic approach.
> >>
> >> Another problem may be if we cannot locate suitable non-GPL options
> >> for our components. This may mean long delays, as we may need to
> >> develop alternatives ourselves.
> >>
> >> Also, the move is likely – at least initially – to divert resources
> >> from development to bureucracy. This is likely to strain a nerve or
> >> two. This can hopefully be mitigated by the Mentors by providing
> >> clear guidance.
> >>
> >> To be fully blunt, I (Janne Jalkanen) also feel a bit queasy on
> >> giving control of JSPWiki – my pet, which I have groomed for many
> >> years – away to a foundation. However, this is something which is
> >> better in long term for JSPWiki, and therefore it is worth the
> >> sacrifices.
> >>
> >> JSPWiki 2.8 is designed to be a low-risk, low-hanging-fruit type of a
> >> release, assuming that ASF is fine with the package not being in the
> >> "org.apache" hierarchy. If not, we have no choice but to wait until
> >> 3.0 since breaking the binary compatibility twice in a row would mean
> >> problems for all developers.
> >> Orphaned products
> >>
> >> Since JSPWiki has been lead using a "benevolent dictator" –model, the
> >> largest knowledge of the code base rests on Janne Jalkanen. Janne has
> >> no plans to leave JSPWiki development, but certainly there is a need
> >> to get more people who have an intimate knowledge of the code base
> >> (and the decisions thereof).
> >>
> >> Inexperience with Open Source
> >>
> >> JSPWiki was started as an open source project in June 2001, and has
> >> remained an open source project since. Issue tracking and mailing
> >> lists have been open to everyone from day one.
> >>
> >> Homogenous Developers
> >>
> >> The current list of committers includes people from five countries,
> >> four timezones and two continents. Regular patches come in also from
> >> other countries.
> >>
> >> Reliance on Salaried Developers
> >>
> >> There are currently no people on the committer list who get paid to
> >> work on JSPWiki. However, we do get patches from a number of
> >> companies with a vested interest in JSPWiki.
> >>
> >> JSPWiki is in no way reliant on salaried coders.
> >>
> >> Relationships with Other Apache Products
> >>
> >> JSPWiki uses quite a few different Apache projects already, and, of
> >> course, runs on top of Tomcat (though it has been developed to be
> >> pure J2EE only and in no way relies on any specific functionality).
> >>
> >> In the future, we expect to integrate somewhat with Jackrabbit.
> >>
> >> A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand
> >>
> >> JSPWiki could continue on its own, no worries. However, we do feel
> >> that our customers and users would feel more comfortable if there was
> >> a "name" attached to it – because it lessens the risk of JSPWiki just
> >> going away some day.
> >>
> >> To be frank, we are more interested in the Apache processes and the
> >> stability Apache would bring to the project than the actual name. We
> >> also hope that Apache will adopt us as their wiki solution ;-)
> >>
> >> Documentation
> >>
> >> The chief JSPWiki resource is the http://www.jspwiki.org/ web site.
> >> It is further amended by the JSPWiki documentation site (http://
> >> doc.jspwiki.org/2.4) as well as the JSPWiki-users and JSPWiki-dev
> >> mailing list archives at http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-users/
> >> and http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-dev/.
> >>
> >> Initial Source
> >>
> >> There is an initial source base of approximately 70,000 lines of
> >> code. (According to an estimate by the Ohloh code search engine, this
> >> amounts to roughly 17 person years).
> >>
> >> Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan
> >>
> >> * jspwiki.org domain from Janne Jalkanen
> >> * JSPWiki source code from all contributors (CLAs need to be done)
> >>
> >> External Dependencies
> >>
> >> JSPWiki is relying already extensively on a number of Apache-licensed
> >> libraries. However, we are also using some LGPL-based libraries,
> >> which will either need to be replaced or rewritten. The current list
> >> of dependencies and the migration plan is available here:
> >>
> >> http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ApacheRelicensing
> >>
> >> Cryptography
> >>
> >> JSPWiki uses only cryptography methods (hash codes) available in the
> >> J2SE itself. There is one exception to this rule, however: we use a
> >> slightly modified version of the Apache Tomcat's HexUtils for
> >> converting byte arrays into hexadecimal digits.
> >> (org.apache.catalina.util.HexUtils).
> >>
> >> Required Resources
> >>
> >> Mailing lists
> >>
> >> JSPWiki currently operates on two mailing lists - jspwiki-
> >> users@jspwiki.org, and jspwiki-dev@jspwiki.org. It would be good to
> >> continue these both also under Apache Incubation, with the addition
> >> of the mandatory jspwiki-private. A jspwiki-commits -list might also
> >> be useful.
> >>
> >> * jspwiki-users (contains the existing members of the jspwiki-
> >> users)
> >> * jspwiki-dev (the members of the existing jspwiki-dev)
> >> * jspwiki-commits (new list for announcing commits to the svn
> >> repository)
> >> * jspwiki-private (for the PPMC, with moderated subscriptions)
> >>
> >> Subversion Directory
> >>
> >> JSPWiki code base should be named "jspwiki", as in
> >>
> >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jspwiki
> >>
> >> Issue Tracking
> >>
> >> Current JSPWiki bug tracking is done at http://bugs.jspwiki.org/,
> >> using Bugzilla 3.0. It would be good to be able to move the current
> >> bug list to the Apache Bugzilla. The project name should be "JSPWiki".
> >>
> >> If the bug list cannot be moved, then we can continue to use the
> >> JSPWiki bug tracker.
> >> Other Resources
> >>
> >> * www.jspwiki.org website
> >> * doc.jspwiki.org
> >> * blog.jspwiki.org
> >> * sandbox.jspwiki.org (wiped at noon GMT with a custom script).
> >> * bugs.jspwiki.org
> >>
> >> Some or all of these can be moved to Apache. However, deeper
> >> discussions need to be made on which ones Apache is willing to host.
> >>
> >> Initial Committers
> >>
> >> * Janne Jalkanen (jalkanen@ecyrd.com)
> >> * Andrew Jaquith (andrew@freshcookies.org)
> >> * Dirk Frederickx (dirk.frederickx@gmail.com)
> >> * Christoph Sauer (sauer@hs-heilbronn.de)
> >> * Juan Pablo Santos Rodríquez (juanpablo.santos@gmail.com)
> >> * Murray Altheim (murray07@altheim.com)
> >>
> >> None of the initial committers have yet submitted a CLA.
> >>
> >> Affiliations
> >>
> >> Janne Jalkanen works as a Project Manager in Nokia, but his work has
> >> nothing to do with JSPWiki.
> >>
> >> Andrew Jaquith is a senior analyst at Yankee Group, an ICT research
> >> and consulting firm. He covers security for Yankee. Nokia, curiously,
> >> is one of Yankee's customers, but apparently not the part that Janne
> >> works for. :)
> >>
> >> Christoph Sauer is a researcher at the Heilbronn University, Germany.
> >> He is a Project Manager at the Heilbronn Universities i3G Institute,
> >> which offers business services for small and medium sized companies.
> >>
> >> Juan Pablo Santos works as a Software Engineer in Secuenzia, an IT
> >> consulting firm in Madrid.
> >>
> >> Sponsors
> >>
> >> Champion
> >>
> >> Champion: Dave Johnson
> >> Nominated Mentors
> >>
> >> People who have announced their willingness to be Mentors are
> >>
> >> * Dave Johnson
> >> * Sam Ruby
> >> * Henning Schmiedehausen
> >>
> >> Sponsoring Entity
> >>
> >> Sponsoring entity should be the Incubator.
> >> PPMC
> >>
> >> The PPMC shall consist of initial committers and the Mentors.
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
> /Gwyn
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Gwyn Evans <gw...@gmail.com>.
While agreeing that it's something that needs looking at closely, I'm
not I'm not sure it's downbeat as I think you're suggesting. The
3rd-party licencing policy at http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
redirects to the draft at http://people.apache.org/~rubys/3party.html,
but that suggests that, especially for use in binary form, licences
such as CDDL or CPL aren't necessarily incompatible...
/Gwyn
On Thursday, September 6, 2007, 3:49:09 PM, Martin <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> I'm concerned about all of the 3rd party dependencies that use quite a
> variety of other licenses. The relicensing page says "Category B: Keep" for
> many of these. I'm not clear on where the "Category B" part comes from, but
> I don't believe that some of these can be kept. Some of the licenses, such
> as CPL, have IP provisions in them that are most likely incompatible with
> the Apache License 2.0, so I believe those components would have to go as
> well. Am with most folks here, IANAL, but this is something that would have
> to be looked at closely to make sure that JSPWiki can in fact end up under
> an Apache License.
> --
> Martin Cooper
> On 8/29/07, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all!
>>
>> I am Janne Jalkanen, the lead developer of the open source wiki
>> engine called JSPWiki, and I have a proposal for your enjoyment.
>> This proposal is available in the web at http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/
>> ApacheJSPWikiProposal, should you wish to help us to make it better.
>>
>> /Janne
>>
>> ---------
>>
>> Abstract
>>
>> Apache JSPWiki will be a modular and user-extensible wiki-engine,
>> based on the open source JSPWiki software.
>>
>> Proposal
>>
>> JSPWiki is a wiki engine available under the Lesser General Public
>> License. It has a very modular construction, and integrates
>> relatively nicely with a bunch of enterprise systems. It is also
>> inherently embeddable, and has been incorporated as a component in a
>> few different commercial and open source products.
>>
>> The latest JSPWiki, 2.6, supports AJAX and full I18N, pluggable
>> backends, pluggable editors, an expressive markup, a plugin
>> framework, a filter framework, and built-in URL rewriting.
>>
>> JSPWiki also has a nice unit test set of over 700 unit tests which
>> have been invaluable in keeping compatibility between releases.
>> Background
>>
>> In the past few years, wikis have become a common collaborative tool.
>> They are light-weight, open, and easy to deploy. The English
>> Wikipedia, currently the largest public wiki site, contains nearly
>> two million pages.
>>
>> Wikis were originally designed to be small group collaboration tools,
>> but they have proven to be scalable to a large number of users, as
>> evidenced by the Wikipedia example. However, their most common use is
>> still within companies and other entities which deploy them as
>> collaboration tools, augmenting and even replacing traditional CSCW
>> tools.
>>
>> JSPWiki was originally created to address the same group
>> collaboration tool needs as so many other wiki engines. Its goals
>> were from the start to provide extensibility and user power, while
>> keeping the core functionality clear. Since it's inception in 2001,
>> it has grown to be one of the more popular open source wikiengines,
>> at least in the Java arena. It currently ships with the Sun Portal
>> Server 7, and features as an integral part of the Intland Codebeamer
>> development environment.
>>
>> Rationale
>>
>> JSPWiki has grown nicely over the past few years, and currently
>> averages around 2000 downloads monthly. The users-list has at the
>> writing of this 207 members, and the developers mailing list has 34
>> members. There are currently six people with commit access to the CVS
>> codebase.
>>
>> However, there is a chasm to how large an open source project can
>> grow under a "benevolent dictator" –model. Many corporations are
>> relying on the JSPWiki code base, and joining Apache would lessen the
>> risks involved in using it, thus giving more entities an opportunity
>> to use this advanced project. Joining Apache would make us less
>> dependent on individual developers and would strengthen our community.
>>
>> We also feel that the introduction of Apache processes would increase
>> the code quality, as well as bring more interested developers to this
>> project.
>>
>> Apache is also lacking a wiki engine. It is currently using either
>> commercial software (Confluence) or Python-based wiki software
>> (MoinMoin) as its own projects. As wikis are becoming the workhorse
>> of many projects, we feel that it would bring a good addition to the
>> Apache community.
>>
>> Initial Goals
>>
>> The initial goals of the project is to release JSPWiki 2.8 under the
>> Apache license:
>>
>> * Bring in the JSPWiki 2.6 stable code base into Apache and
>> apply Apache licensing and remove incompatible dependencies (see
>> ApacheRelicensing for more discussion.)
>> * Release JSPWiki 2.8 as a clone of JSPWiki 2.6 - with some bug
>> fixes and Apache licensing, however keeping compatibility with
>> JSPWiki 2.6. This means that we cannot e.g. change the package naming
>> from "com.ecyrd.jspwiki" or else all old plugins will fail. It is yet
>> unclear whether this will be acceptable to ASF.
>>
>> After that, we will start working on JSPWiki 3.0:
>>
>> * Clean up our metadata and backend support by adding JSR-170
>> repository support
>> * Adoption of a more flexible web framework (Stripes, an Apache-
>> licensed project)
>> * Multi-wiki support (so-called WikiFarms, or WikiWebs or
>> WikiSpaces)
>> * Move to "org.apache.jspwiki" -structure, breaking
>> compatibility with 2.x series
>> * Cleanup of the APIs and some refactoring which has been due
>> for a long time
>>
>> Current Status
>>
>> JSPWiki code base is relatively stable, and even though some parts
>> are certainly showing their age, the code is clearly laid out (we
>> originally used the Avalon coding conventions, but since then it has
>> been slightly modified), and is often thanked for its clarity. We use
>> the Facade and Adapter patterns extensively across JSPWiki.
>>
>> The current development practice has mostly been a Linux-like
>> "benevolent dictator" -model. There have been no major clashes on the
>> mailing lists, and the community tends to be helpful, even if
>> sometimes a little slow in helping others.
>>
>> Meritocracy
>>
>> JSPWiki has always tried to grant commit access to people who have
>> proven themselves as willing and capable of contributing to the code
>> base, UI design, documentation, etc. We will certainly continue this
>> practice, as it has proven to be very useful. We hope that the Apache
>> process will make it even more practical.
>>
>> Community
>>
>> JSPWiki has existed since 2001, and during its life, the community
>> has been growing steadily. Currently there is some 200-odd members on
>> the jspwiki-users mailing list, and 34 members on the jspwiki-dev-
>> users mailing list.
>>
>> JSPWiki has also been a subject of some scientific papers, and is
>> used as a development platform.
>>
>> Core Developers
>>
>> The core developers consist of Janne Jalkanen (Finnish, the original
>> lead developer and still the person with the most commits), Andrew
>> Jaquith (USA, a security guru), Dirk Frederickx (Belgium, our user
>> experience specialist), Christoph Sauer (Germany, the maintainer of
>> the WikiWizard editor), and Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez (Spain, the
>> i18n specialist).
>>
>> We are a diverse group, though concentrated mostly in the Western
>> countries.
>>
>> Alignment
>>
>> We use Tomcat as our main development platform, and we are already
>> using a large number of Apache components from Log4j and regexps to
>> Commons Lang.
>>
>> In the future, we are planning to turn our backend to use JSR-170,
>> which makes Apache Jackrabbit an obvious bit of the future, though
>> the migration from our current repository model is still unclear.
>>
>> Our coding rules are also based on Apache Avalon coding rules.
>>
>> Known Risks
>>
>> Changing a large code base from one license to another always entails
>> risks. There may be users who might object to moving from GNU to
>> Apache on idealistic grounds, but most of the users will probably
>> take a pragmatic approach.
>>
>> Another problem may be if we cannot locate suitable non-GPL options
>> for our components. This may mean long delays, as we may need to
>> develop alternatives ourselves.
>>
>> Also, the move is likely – at least initially – to divert resources
>> from development to bureucracy. This is likely to strain a nerve or
>> two. This can hopefully be mitigated by the Mentors by providing
>> clear guidance.
>>
>> To be fully blunt, I (Janne Jalkanen) also feel a bit queasy on
>> giving control of JSPWiki – my pet, which I have groomed for many
>> years – away to a foundation. However, this is something which is
>> better in long term for JSPWiki, and therefore it is worth the
>> sacrifices.
>>
>> JSPWiki 2.8 is designed to be a low-risk, low-hanging-fruit type of a
>> release, assuming that ASF is fine with the package not being in the
>> "org.apache" hierarchy. If not, we have no choice but to wait until
>> 3.0 since breaking the binary compatibility twice in a row would mean
>> problems for all developers.
>> Orphaned products
>>
>> Since JSPWiki has been lead using a "benevolent dictator" –model, the
>> largest knowledge of the code base rests on Janne Jalkanen. Janne has
>> no plans to leave JSPWiki development, but certainly there is a need
>> to get more people who have an intimate knowledge of the code base
>> (and the decisions thereof).
>>
>> Inexperience with Open Source
>>
>> JSPWiki was started as an open source project in June 2001, and has
>> remained an open source project since. Issue tracking and mailing
>> lists have been open to everyone from day one.
>>
>> Homogenous Developers
>>
>> The current list of committers includes people from five countries,
>> four timezones and two continents. Regular patches come in also from
>> other countries.
>>
>> Reliance on Salaried Developers
>>
>> There are currently no people on the committer list who get paid to
>> work on JSPWiki. However, we do get patches from a number of
>> companies with a vested interest in JSPWiki.
>>
>> JSPWiki is in no way reliant on salaried coders.
>>
>> Relationships with Other Apache Products
>>
>> JSPWiki uses quite a few different Apache projects already, and, of
>> course, runs on top of Tomcat (though it has been developed to be
>> pure J2EE only and in no way relies on any specific functionality).
>>
>> In the future, we expect to integrate somewhat with Jackrabbit.
>>
>> A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand
>>
>> JSPWiki could continue on its own, no worries. However, we do feel
>> that our customers and users would feel more comfortable if there was
>> a "name" attached to it – because it lessens the risk of JSPWiki just
>> going away some day.
>>
>> To be frank, we are more interested in the Apache processes and the
>> stability Apache would bring to the project than the actual name. We
>> also hope that Apache will adopt us as their wiki solution ;-)
>>
>> Documentation
>>
>> The chief JSPWiki resource is the http://www.jspwiki.org/ web site.
>> It is further amended by the JSPWiki documentation site (http://
>> doc.jspwiki.org/2.4) as well as the JSPWiki-users and JSPWiki-dev
>> mailing list archives at http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-users/
>> and http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-dev/.
>>
>> Initial Source
>>
>> There is an initial source base of approximately 70,000 lines of
>> code. (According to an estimate by the Ohloh code search engine, this
>> amounts to roughly 17 person years).
>>
>> Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan
>>
>> * jspwiki.org domain from Janne Jalkanen
>> * JSPWiki source code from all contributors (CLAs need to be done)
>>
>> External Dependencies
>>
>> JSPWiki is relying already extensively on a number of Apache-licensed
>> libraries. However, we are also using some LGPL-based libraries,
>> which will either need to be replaced or rewritten. The current list
>> of dependencies and the migration plan is available here:
>>
>> http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ApacheRelicensing
>>
>> Cryptography
>>
>> JSPWiki uses only cryptography methods (hash codes) available in the
>> J2SE itself. There is one exception to this rule, however: we use a
>> slightly modified version of the Apache Tomcat's HexUtils for
>> converting byte arrays into hexadecimal digits.
>> (org.apache.catalina.util.HexUtils).
>>
>> Required Resources
>>
>> Mailing lists
>>
>> JSPWiki currently operates on two mailing lists - jspwiki-
>> users@jspwiki.org, and jspwiki-dev@jspwiki.org. It would be good to
>> continue these both also under Apache Incubation, with the addition
>> of the mandatory jspwiki-private. A jspwiki-commits -list might also
>> be useful.
>>
>> * jspwiki-users (contains the existing members of the jspwiki-
>> users)
>> * jspwiki-dev (the members of the existing jspwiki-dev)
>> * jspwiki-commits (new list for announcing commits to the svn
>> repository)
>> * jspwiki-private (for the PPMC, with moderated subscriptions)
>>
>> Subversion Directory
>>
>> JSPWiki code base should be named "jspwiki", as in
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jspwiki
>>
>> Issue Tracking
>>
>> Current JSPWiki bug tracking is done at http://bugs.jspwiki.org/,
>> using Bugzilla 3.0. It would be good to be able to move the current
>> bug list to the Apache Bugzilla. The project name should be "JSPWiki".
>>
>> If the bug list cannot be moved, then we can continue to use the
>> JSPWiki bug tracker.
>> Other Resources
>>
>> * www.jspwiki.org website
>> * doc.jspwiki.org
>> * blog.jspwiki.org
>> * sandbox.jspwiki.org (wiped at noon GMT with a custom script).
>> * bugs.jspwiki.org
>>
>> Some or all of these can be moved to Apache. However, deeper
>> discussions need to be made on which ones Apache is willing to host.
>>
>> Initial Committers
>>
>> * Janne Jalkanen (jalkanen@ecyrd.com)
>> * Andrew Jaquith (andrew@freshcookies.org)
>> * Dirk Frederickx (dirk.frederickx@gmail.com)
>> * Christoph Sauer (sauer@hs-heilbronn.de)
>> * Juan Pablo Santos Rodríquez (juanpablo.santos@gmail.com)
>> * Murray Altheim (murray07@altheim.com)
>>
>> None of the initial committers have yet submitted a CLA.
>>
>> Affiliations
>>
>> Janne Jalkanen works as a Project Manager in Nokia, but his work has
>> nothing to do with JSPWiki.
>>
>> Andrew Jaquith is a senior analyst at Yankee Group, an ICT research
>> and consulting firm. He covers security for Yankee. Nokia, curiously,
>> is one of Yankee's customers, but apparently not the part that Janne
>> works for. :)
>>
>> Christoph Sauer is a researcher at the Heilbronn University, Germany.
>> He is a Project Manager at the Heilbronn Universities i3G Institute,
>> which offers business services for small and medium sized companies.
>>
>> Juan Pablo Santos works as a Software Engineer in Secuenzia, an IT
>> consulting firm in Madrid.
>>
>> Sponsors
>>
>> Champion
>>
>> Champion: Dave Johnson
>> Nominated Mentors
>>
>> People who have announced their willingness to be Mentors are
>>
>> * Dave Johnson
>> * Sam Ruby
>> * Henning Schmiedehausen
>>
>> Sponsoring Entity
>>
>> Sponsoring entity should be the Incubator.
>> PPMC
>>
>> The PPMC shall consist of initial committers and the Mentors.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
/Gwyn
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
On 9/8/07, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> +1. The fact that Janne pointed to a web page listing all the potential
> hazards, is a VERY GOOD sign that he has at least as good grip of the
> situation as the average Java project at Apache. And definitely good enough
> for me to start incubation.
+1 too. The list is very comprehensive, and even notified myself of an
old product that somehow changed license (jwebunit) for the worse.
Martijn
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Saturday 08 September 2007 17:41, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:
> these concerns are very valid and good and Janne has demonstrated that
> he is aware of this.
>
> However, most of the vetting required is actually *part* of the
> incubation process and happens after acceptance into the incubator. So
> can we just postpone that discussion a bit and assimilate them
> first? ;-)
+1. The fact that Janne pointed to a web page listing all the potential
hazards, is a VERY GOOD sign that he has at least as good grip of the
situation as the average Java project at Apache. And definitely good enough
for me to start incubation.
Cheers
Niclas
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RE: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:
> these concerns are very valid and good and Janne has demonstrated that
> he is aware of this.
> However, most of the vetting required is actually *part* of the
> incubation process and happens after acceptance into the incubator.
> So can we just postpone that discussion a bit and assimilate them
> first? ;-)
+1
Roller had to deal with this as well. I am not going to revisit all of the examples that have been posted as "But X did ..."; that would be a bit like pointing at the corpus of clueless CGI scripts as examples of how to use HTTP.
No releases until dependencies are cleaned up.
--- Noel
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org>.
Folks,
these concerns are very valid and good and Janne has demonstrated that
he is aware of this.
However, most of the vetting required is actually *part* of the
incubation process and happens after acceptance into the incubator. So
can we just postpone that discussion a bit and assimilate them
first? ;-)
Best regards
Henning
On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 07:49 -0700, Martin Cooper wrote:
> I'm concerned about all of the 3rd party dependencies that use quite a
> variety of other licenses. The relicensing page says "Category B: Keep" for
> many of these. I'm not clear on where the "Category B" part comes from, but
> I don't believe that some of these can be kept. Some of the licenses, such
> as CPL, have IP provisions in them that are most likely incompatible with
> the Apache License 2.0, so I believe those components would have to go as
> well. Am with most folks here, IANAL, but this is something that would have
> to be looked at closely to make sure that JSPWiki can in fact end up under
> an Apache License.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> On 8/29/07, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all!
> >
> > I am Janne Jalkanen, the lead developer of the open source wiki
> > engine called JSPWiki, and I have a proposal for your enjoyment.
> > This proposal is available in the web at http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/
> > ApacheJSPWikiProposal, should you wish to help us to make it better.
> >
> > /Janne
> >
> > ---------
> >
> > Abstract
> >
> > Apache JSPWiki will be a modular and user-extensible wiki-engine,
> > based on the open source JSPWiki software.
> >
> > Proposal
> >
> > JSPWiki is a wiki engine available under the Lesser General Public
> > License. It has a very modular construction, and integrates
> > relatively nicely with a bunch of enterprise systems. It is also
> > inherently embeddable, and has been incorporated as a component in a
> > few different commercial and open source products.
> >
> > The latest JSPWiki, 2.6, supports AJAX and full I18N, pluggable
> > backends, pluggable editors, an expressive markup, a plugin
> > framework, a filter framework, and built-in URL rewriting.
> >
> > JSPWiki also has a nice unit test set of over 700 unit tests which
> > have been invaluable in keeping compatibility between releases.
> > Background
> >
> > In the past few years, wikis have become a common collaborative tool.
> > They are light-weight, open, and easy to deploy. The English
> > Wikipedia, currently the largest public wiki site, contains nearly
> > two million pages.
> >
> > Wikis were originally designed to be small group collaboration tools,
> > but they have proven to be scalable to a large number of users, as
> > evidenced by the Wikipedia example. However, their most common use is
> > still within companies and other entities which deploy them as
> > collaboration tools, augmenting and even replacing traditional CSCW
> > tools.
> >
> > JSPWiki was originally created to address the same group
> > collaboration tool needs as so many other wiki engines. Its goals
> > were from the start to provide extensibility and user power, while
> > keeping the core functionality clear. Since it's inception in 2001,
> > it has grown to be one of the more popular open source wikiengines,
> > at least in the Java arena. It currently ships with the Sun Portal
> > Server 7, and features as an integral part of the Intland Codebeamer
> > development environment.
> >
> > Rationale
> >
> > JSPWiki has grown nicely over the past few years, and currently
> > averages around 2000 downloads monthly. The users-list has at the
> > writing of this 207 members, and the developers mailing list has 34
> > members. There are currently six people with commit access to the CVS
> > codebase.
> >
> > However, there is a chasm to how large an open source project can
> > grow under a "benevolent dictator" –model. Many corporations are
> > relying on the JSPWiki code base, and joining Apache would lessen the
> > risks involved in using it, thus giving more entities an opportunity
> > to use this advanced project. Joining Apache would make us less
> > dependent on individual developers and would strengthen our community.
> >
> > We also feel that the introduction of Apache processes would increase
> > the code quality, as well as bring more interested developers to this
> > project.
> >
> > Apache is also lacking a wiki engine. It is currently using either
> > commercial software (Confluence) or Python-based wiki software
> > (MoinMoin) as its own projects. As wikis are becoming the workhorse
> > of many projects, we feel that it would bring a good addition to the
> > Apache community.
> >
> > Initial Goals
> >
> > The initial goals of the project is to release JSPWiki 2.8 under the
> > Apache license:
> >
> > * Bring in the JSPWiki 2.6 stable code base into Apache and
> > apply Apache licensing and remove incompatible dependencies (see
> > ApacheRelicensing for more discussion.)
> > * Release JSPWiki 2.8 as a clone of JSPWiki 2.6 - with some bug
> > fixes and Apache licensing, however keeping compatibility with
> > JSPWiki 2.6. This means that we cannot e.g. change the package naming
> > from "com.ecyrd.jspwiki" or else all old plugins will fail. It is yet
> > unclear whether this will be acceptable to ASF.
> >
> > After that, we will start working on JSPWiki 3.0:
> >
> > * Clean up our metadata and backend support by adding JSR-170
> > repository support
> > * Adoption of a more flexible web framework (Stripes, an Apache-
> > licensed project)
> > * Multi-wiki support (so-called WikiFarms, or WikiWebs or
> > WikiSpaces)
> > * Move to "org.apache.jspwiki" -structure, breaking
> > compatibility with 2.x series
> > * Cleanup of the APIs and some refactoring which has been due
> > for a long time
> >
> > Current Status
> >
> > JSPWiki code base is relatively stable, and even though some parts
> > are certainly showing their age, the code is clearly laid out (we
> > originally used the Avalon coding conventions, but since then it has
> > been slightly modified), and is often thanked for its clarity. We use
> > the Facade and Adapter patterns extensively across JSPWiki.
> >
> > The current development practice has mostly been a Linux-like
> > "benevolent dictator" -model. There have been no major clashes on the
> > mailing lists, and the community tends to be helpful, even if
> > sometimes a little slow in helping others.
> >
> > Meritocracy
> >
> > JSPWiki has always tried to grant commit access to people who have
> > proven themselves as willing and capable of contributing to the code
> > base, UI design, documentation, etc. We will certainly continue this
> > practice, as it has proven to be very useful. We hope that the Apache
> > process will make it even more practical.
> >
> > Community
> >
> > JSPWiki has existed since 2001, and during its life, the community
> > has been growing steadily. Currently there is some 200-odd members on
> > the jspwiki-users mailing list, and 34 members on the jspwiki-dev-
> > users mailing list.
> >
> > JSPWiki has also been a subject of some scientific papers, and is
> > used as a development platform.
> >
> > Core Developers
> >
> > The core developers consist of Janne Jalkanen (Finnish, the original
> > lead developer and still the person with the most commits), Andrew
> > Jaquith (USA, a security guru), Dirk Frederickx (Belgium, our user
> > experience specialist), Christoph Sauer (Germany, the maintainer of
> > the WikiWizard editor), and Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez (Spain, the
> > i18n specialist).
> >
> > We are a diverse group, though concentrated mostly in the Western
> > countries.
> >
> > Alignment
> >
> > We use Tomcat as our main development platform, and we are already
> > using a large number of Apache components from Log4j and regexps to
> > Commons Lang.
> >
> > In the future, we are planning to turn our backend to use JSR-170,
> > which makes Apache Jackrabbit an obvious bit of the future, though
> > the migration from our current repository model is still unclear.
> >
> > Our coding rules are also based on Apache Avalon coding rules.
> >
> > Known Risks
> >
> > Changing a large code base from one license to another always entails
> > risks. There may be users who might object to moving from GNU to
> > Apache on idealistic grounds, but most of the users will probably
> > take a pragmatic approach.
> >
> > Another problem may be if we cannot locate suitable non-GPL options
> > for our components. This may mean long delays, as we may need to
> > develop alternatives ourselves.
> >
> > Also, the move is likely – at least initially – to divert resources
> > from development to bureucracy. This is likely to strain a nerve or
> > two. This can hopefully be mitigated by the Mentors by providing
> > clear guidance.
> >
> > To be fully blunt, I (Janne Jalkanen) also feel a bit queasy on
> > giving control of JSPWiki – my pet, which I have groomed for many
> > years – away to a foundation. However, this is something which is
> > better in long term for JSPWiki, and therefore it is worth the
> > sacrifices.
> >
> > JSPWiki 2.8 is designed to be a low-risk, low-hanging-fruit type of a
> > release, assuming that ASF is fine with the package not being in the
> > "org.apache" hierarchy. If not, we have no choice but to wait until
> > 3.0 since breaking the binary compatibility twice in a row would mean
> > problems for all developers.
> > Orphaned products
> >
> > Since JSPWiki has been lead using a "benevolent dictator" –model, the
> > largest knowledge of the code base rests on Janne Jalkanen. Janne has
> > no plans to leave JSPWiki development, but certainly there is a need
> > to get more people who have an intimate knowledge of the code base
> > (and the decisions thereof).
> >
> > Inexperience with Open Source
> >
> > JSPWiki was started as an open source project in June 2001, and has
> > remained an open source project since. Issue tracking and mailing
> > lists have been open to everyone from day one.
> >
> > Homogenous Developers
> >
> > The current list of committers includes people from five countries,
> > four timezones and two continents. Regular patches come in also from
> > other countries.
> >
> > Reliance on Salaried Developers
> >
> > There are currently no people on the committer list who get paid to
> > work on JSPWiki. However, we do get patches from a number of
> > companies with a vested interest in JSPWiki.
> >
> > JSPWiki is in no way reliant on salaried coders.
> >
> > Relationships with Other Apache Products
> >
> > JSPWiki uses quite a few different Apache projects already, and, of
> > course, runs on top of Tomcat (though it has been developed to be
> > pure J2EE only and in no way relies on any specific functionality).
> >
> > In the future, we expect to integrate somewhat with Jackrabbit.
> >
> > A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand
> >
> > JSPWiki could continue on its own, no worries. However, we do feel
> > that our customers and users would feel more comfortable if there was
> > a "name" attached to it – because it lessens the risk of JSPWiki just
> > going away some day.
> >
> > To be frank, we are more interested in the Apache processes and the
> > stability Apache would bring to the project than the actual name. We
> > also hope that Apache will adopt us as their wiki solution ;-)
> >
> > Documentation
> >
> > The chief JSPWiki resource is the http://www.jspwiki.org/ web site.
> > It is further amended by the JSPWiki documentation site (http://
> > doc.jspwiki.org/2.4) as well as the JSPWiki-users and JSPWiki-dev
> > mailing list archives at http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-users/
> > and http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-dev/.
> >
> > Initial Source
> >
> > There is an initial source base of approximately 70,000 lines of
> > code. (According to an estimate by the Ohloh code search engine, this
> > amounts to roughly 17 person years).
> >
> > Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan
> >
> > * jspwiki.org domain from Janne Jalkanen
> > * JSPWiki source code from all contributors (CLAs need to be done)
> >
> > External Dependencies
> >
> > JSPWiki is relying already extensively on a number of Apache-licensed
> > libraries. However, we are also using some LGPL-based libraries,
> > which will either need to be replaced or rewritten. The current list
> > of dependencies and the migration plan is available here:
> >
> > http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ApacheRelicensing
> >
> > Cryptography
> >
> > JSPWiki uses only cryptography methods (hash codes) available in the
> > J2SE itself. There is one exception to this rule, however: we use a
> > slightly modified version of the Apache Tomcat's HexUtils for
> > converting byte arrays into hexadecimal digits.
> > (org.apache.catalina.util.HexUtils).
> >
> > Required Resources
> >
> > Mailing lists
> >
> > JSPWiki currently operates on two mailing lists - jspwiki-
> > users@jspwiki.org, and jspwiki-dev@jspwiki.org. It would be good to
> > continue these both also under Apache Incubation, with the addition
> > of the mandatory jspwiki-private. A jspwiki-commits -list might also
> > be useful.
> >
> > * jspwiki-users (contains the existing members of the jspwiki-
> > users)
> > * jspwiki-dev (the members of the existing jspwiki-dev)
> > * jspwiki-commits (new list for announcing commits to the svn
> > repository)
> > * jspwiki-private (for the PPMC, with moderated subscriptions)
> >
> > Subversion Directory
> >
> > JSPWiki code base should be named "jspwiki", as in
> >
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jspwiki
> >
> > Issue Tracking
> >
> > Current JSPWiki bug tracking is done at http://bugs.jspwiki.org/,
> > using Bugzilla 3.0. It would be good to be able to move the current
> > bug list to the Apache Bugzilla. The project name should be "JSPWiki".
> >
> > If the bug list cannot be moved, then we can continue to use the
> > JSPWiki bug tracker.
> > Other Resources
> >
> > * www.jspwiki.org website
> > * doc.jspwiki.org
> > * blog.jspwiki.org
> > * sandbox.jspwiki.org (wiped at noon GMT with a custom script).
> > * bugs.jspwiki.org
> >
> > Some or all of these can be moved to Apache. However, deeper
> > discussions need to be made on which ones Apache is willing to host.
> >
> > Initial Committers
> >
> > * Janne Jalkanen (jalkanen@ecyrd.com)
> > * Andrew Jaquith (andrew@freshcookies.org)
> > * Dirk Frederickx (dirk.frederickx@gmail.com)
> > * Christoph Sauer (sauer@hs-heilbronn.de)
> > * Juan Pablo Santos Rodríquez (juanpablo.santos@gmail.com)
> > * Murray Altheim (murray07@altheim.com)
> >
> > None of the initial committers have yet submitted a CLA.
> >
> > Affiliations
> >
> > Janne Jalkanen works as a Project Manager in Nokia, but his work has
> > nothing to do with JSPWiki.
> >
> > Andrew Jaquith is a senior analyst at Yankee Group, an ICT research
> > and consulting firm. He covers security for Yankee. Nokia, curiously,
> > is one of Yankee's customers, but apparently not the part that Janne
> > works for. :)
> >
> > Christoph Sauer is a researcher at the Heilbronn University, Germany.
> > He is a Project Manager at the Heilbronn Universities i3G Institute,
> > which offers business services for small and medium sized companies.
> >
> > Juan Pablo Santos works as a Software Engineer in Secuenzia, an IT
> > consulting firm in Madrid.
> >
> > Sponsors
> >
> > Champion
> >
> > Champion: Dave Johnson
> > Nominated Mentors
> >
> > People who have announced their willingness to be Mentors are
> >
> > * Dave Johnson
> > * Sam Ruby
> > * Henning Schmiedehausen
> >
> > Sponsoring Entity
> >
> > Sponsoring entity should be the Incubator.
> > PPMC
> >
> > The PPMC shall consist of initial committers and the Mentors.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
I'm concerned about all of the 3rd party dependencies that use quite a
variety of other licenses. The relicensing page says "Category B: Keep" for
many of these. I'm not clear on where the "Category B" part comes from, but
I don't believe that some of these can be kept. Some of the licenses, such
as CPL, have IP provisions in them that are most likely incompatible with
the Apache License 2.0, so I believe those components would have to go as
well. Am with most folks here, IANAL, but this is something that would have
to be looked at closely to make sure that JSPWiki can in fact end up under
an Apache License.
--
Martin Cooper
On 8/29/07, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all!
>
> I am Janne Jalkanen, the lead developer of the open source wiki
> engine called JSPWiki, and I have a proposal for your enjoyment.
> This proposal is available in the web at http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/
> ApacheJSPWikiProposal, should you wish to help us to make it better.
>
> /Janne
>
> ---------
>
> Abstract
>
> Apache JSPWiki will be a modular and user-extensible wiki-engine,
> based on the open source JSPWiki software.
>
> Proposal
>
> JSPWiki is a wiki engine available under the Lesser General Public
> License. It has a very modular construction, and integrates
> relatively nicely with a bunch of enterprise systems. It is also
> inherently embeddable, and has been incorporated as a component in a
> few different commercial and open source products.
>
> The latest JSPWiki, 2.6, supports AJAX and full I18N, pluggable
> backends, pluggable editors, an expressive markup, a plugin
> framework, a filter framework, and built-in URL rewriting.
>
> JSPWiki also has a nice unit test set of over 700 unit tests which
> have been invaluable in keeping compatibility between releases.
> Background
>
> In the past few years, wikis have become a common collaborative tool.
> They are light-weight, open, and easy to deploy. The English
> Wikipedia, currently the largest public wiki site, contains nearly
> two million pages.
>
> Wikis were originally designed to be small group collaboration tools,
> but they have proven to be scalable to a large number of users, as
> evidenced by the Wikipedia example. However, their most common use is
> still within companies and other entities which deploy them as
> collaboration tools, augmenting and even replacing traditional CSCW
> tools.
>
> JSPWiki was originally created to address the same group
> collaboration tool needs as so many other wiki engines. Its goals
> were from the start to provide extensibility and user power, while
> keeping the core functionality clear. Since it's inception in 2001,
> it has grown to be one of the more popular open source wikiengines,
> at least in the Java arena. It currently ships with the Sun Portal
> Server 7, and features as an integral part of the Intland Codebeamer
> development environment.
>
> Rationale
>
> JSPWiki has grown nicely over the past few years, and currently
> averages around 2000 downloads monthly. The users-list has at the
> writing of this 207 members, and the developers mailing list has 34
> members. There are currently six people with commit access to the CVS
> codebase.
>
> However, there is a chasm to how large an open source project can
> grow under a "benevolent dictator" –model. Many corporations are
> relying on the JSPWiki code base, and joining Apache would lessen the
> risks involved in using it, thus giving more entities an opportunity
> to use this advanced project. Joining Apache would make us less
> dependent on individual developers and would strengthen our community.
>
> We also feel that the introduction of Apache processes would increase
> the code quality, as well as bring more interested developers to this
> project.
>
> Apache is also lacking a wiki engine. It is currently using either
> commercial software (Confluence) or Python-based wiki software
> (MoinMoin) as its own projects. As wikis are becoming the workhorse
> of many projects, we feel that it would bring a good addition to the
> Apache community.
>
> Initial Goals
>
> The initial goals of the project is to release JSPWiki 2.8 under the
> Apache license:
>
> * Bring in the JSPWiki 2.6 stable code base into Apache and
> apply Apache licensing and remove incompatible dependencies (see
> ApacheRelicensing for more discussion.)
> * Release JSPWiki 2.8 as a clone of JSPWiki 2.6 - with some bug
> fixes and Apache licensing, however keeping compatibility with
> JSPWiki 2.6. This means that we cannot e.g. change the package naming
> from "com.ecyrd.jspwiki" or else all old plugins will fail. It is yet
> unclear whether this will be acceptable to ASF.
>
> After that, we will start working on JSPWiki 3.0:
>
> * Clean up our metadata and backend support by adding JSR-170
> repository support
> * Adoption of a more flexible web framework (Stripes, an Apache-
> licensed project)
> * Multi-wiki support (so-called WikiFarms, or WikiWebs or
> WikiSpaces)
> * Move to "org.apache.jspwiki" -structure, breaking
> compatibility with 2.x series
> * Cleanup of the APIs and some refactoring which has been due
> for a long time
>
> Current Status
>
> JSPWiki code base is relatively stable, and even though some parts
> are certainly showing their age, the code is clearly laid out (we
> originally used the Avalon coding conventions, but since then it has
> been slightly modified), and is often thanked for its clarity. We use
> the Facade and Adapter patterns extensively across JSPWiki.
>
> The current development practice has mostly been a Linux-like
> "benevolent dictator" -model. There have been no major clashes on the
> mailing lists, and the community tends to be helpful, even if
> sometimes a little slow in helping others.
>
> Meritocracy
>
> JSPWiki has always tried to grant commit access to people who have
> proven themselves as willing and capable of contributing to the code
> base, UI design, documentation, etc. We will certainly continue this
> practice, as it has proven to be very useful. We hope that the Apache
> process will make it even more practical.
>
> Community
>
> JSPWiki has existed since 2001, and during its life, the community
> has been growing steadily. Currently there is some 200-odd members on
> the jspwiki-users mailing list, and 34 members on the jspwiki-dev-
> users mailing list.
>
> JSPWiki has also been a subject of some scientific papers, and is
> used as a development platform.
>
> Core Developers
>
> The core developers consist of Janne Jalkanen (Finnish, the original
> lead developer and still the person with the most commits), Andrew
> Jaquith (USA, a security guru), Dirk Frederickx (Belgium, our user
> experience specialist), Christoph Sauer (Germany, the maintainer of
> the WikiWizard editor), and Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez (Spain, the
> i18n specialist).
>
> We are a diverse group, though concentrated mostly in the Western
> countries.
>
> Alignment
>
> We use Tomcat as our main development platform, and we are already
> using a large number of Apache components from Log4j and regexps to
> Commons Lang.
>
> In the future, we are planning to turn our backend to use JSR-170,
> which makes Apache Jackrabbit an obvious bit of the future, though
> the migration from our current repository model is still unclear.
>
> Our coding rules are also based on Apache Avalon coding rules.
>
> Known Risks
>
> Changing a large code base from one license to another always entails
> risks. There may be users who might object to moving from GNU to
> Apache on idealistic grounds, but most of the users will probably
> take a pragmatic approach.
>
> Another problem may be if we cannot locate suitable non-GPL options
> for our components. This may mean long delays, as we may need to
> develop alternatives ourselves.
>
> Also, the move is likely – at least initially – to divert resources
> from development to bureucracy. This is likely to strain a nerve or
> two. This can hopefully be mitigated by the Mentors by providing
> clear guidance.
>
> To be fully blunt, I (Janne Jalkanen) also feel a bit queasy on
> giving control of JSPWiki – my pet, which I have groomed for many
> years – away to a foundation. However, this is something which is
> better in long term for JSPWiki, and therefore it is worth the
> sacrifices.
>
> JSPWiki 2.8 is designed to be a low-risk, low-hanging-fruit type of a
> release, assuming that ASF is fine with the package not being in the
> "org.apache" hierarchy. If not, we have no choice but to wait until
> 3.0 since breaking the binary compatibility twice in a row would mean
> problems for all developers.
> Orphaned products
>
> Since JSPWiki has been lead using a "benevolent dictator" –model, the
> largest knowledge of the code base rests on Janne Jalkanen. Janne has
> no plans to leave JSPWiki development, but certainly there is a need
> to get more people who have an intimate knowledge of the code base
> (and the decisions thereof).
>
> Inexperience with Open Source
>
> JSPWiki was started as an open source project in June 2001, and has
> remained an open source project since. Issue tracking and mailing
> lists have been open to everyone from day one.
>
> Homogenous Developers
>
> The current list of committers includes people from five countries,
> four timezones and two continents. Regular patches come in also from
> other countries.
>
> Reliance on Salaried Developers
>
> There are currently no people on the committer list who get paid to
> work on JSPWiki. However, we do get patches from a number of
> companies with a vested interest in JSPWiki.
>
> JSPWiki is in no way reliant on salaried coders.
>
> Relationships with Other Apache Products
>
> JSPWiki uses quite a few different Apache projects already, and, of
> course, runs on top of Tomcat (though it has been developed to be
> pure J2EE only and in no way relies on any specific functionality).
>
> In the future, we expect to integrate somewhat with Jackrabbit.
>
> A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand
>
> JSPWiki could continue on its own, no worries. However, we do feel
> that our customers and users would feel more comfortable if there was
> a "name" attached to it – because it lessens the risk of JSPWiki just
> going away some day.
>
> To be frank, we are more interested in the Apache processes and the
> stability Apache would bring to the project than the actual name. We
> also hope that Apache will adopt us as their wiki solution ;-)
>
> Documentation
>
> The chief JSPWiki resource is the http://www.jspwiki.org/ web site.
> It is further amended by the JSPWiki documentation site (http://
> doc.jspwiki.org/2.4) as well as the JSPWiki-users and JSPWiki-dev
> mailing list archives at http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-users/
> and http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-dev/.
>
> Initial Source
>
> There is an initial source base of approximately 70,000 lines of
> code. (According to an estimate by the Ohloh code search engine, this
> amounts to roughly 17 person years).
>
> Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan
>
> * jspwiki.org domain from Janne Jalkanen
> * JSPWiki source code from all contributors (CLAs need to be done)
>
> External Dependencies
>
> JSPWiki is relying already extensively on a number of Apache-licensed
> libraries. However, we are also using some LGPL-based libraries,
> which will either need to be replaced or rewritten. The current list
> of dependencies and the migration plan is available here:
>
> http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ApacheRelicensing
>
> Cryptography
>
> JSPWiki uses only cryptography methods (hash codes) available in the
> J2SE itself. There is one exception to this rule, however: we use a
> slightly modified version of the Apache Tomcat's HexUtils for
> converting byte arrays into hexadecimal digits.
> (org.apache.catalina.util.HexUtils).
>
> Required Resources
>
> Mailing lists
>
> JSPWiki currently operates on two mailing lists - jspwiki-
> users@jspwiki.org, and jspwiki-dev@jspwiki.org. It would be good to
> continue these both also under Apache Incubation, with the addition
> of the mandatory jspwiki-private. A jspwiki-commits -list might also
> be useful.
>
> * jspwiki-users (contains the existing members of the jspwiki-
> users)
> * jspwiki-dev (the members of the existing jspwiki-dev)
> * jspwiki-commits (new list for announcing commits to the svn
> repository)
> * jspwiki-private (for the PPMC, with moderated subscriptions)
>
> Subversion Directory
>
> JSPWiki code base should be named "jspwiki", as in
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jspwiki
>
> Issue Tracking
>
> Current JSPWiki bug tracking is done at http://bugs.jspwiki.org/,
> using Bugzilla 3.0. It would be good to be able to move the current
> bug list to the Apache Bugzilla. The project name should be "JSPWiki".
>
> If the bug list cannot be moved, then we can continue to use the
> JSPWiki bug tracker.
> Other Resources
>
> * www.jspwiki.org website
> * doc.jspwiki.org
> * blog.jspwiki.org
> * sandbox.jspwiki.org (wiped at noon GMT with a custom script).
> * bugs.jspwiki.org
>
> Some or all of these can be moved to Apache. However, deeper
> discussions need to be made on which ones Apache is willing to host.
>
> Initial Committers
>
> * Janne Jalkanen (jalkanen@ecyrd.com)
> * Andrew Jaquith (andrew@freshcookies.org)
> * Dirk Frederickx (dirk.frederickx@gmail.com)
> * Christoph Sauer (sauer@hs-heilbronn.de)
> * Juan Pablo Santos Rodríquez (juanpablo.santos@gmail.com)
> * Murray Altheim (murray07@altheim.com)
>
> None of the initial committers have yet submitted a CLA.
>
> Affiliations
>
> Janne Jalkanen works as a Project Manager in Nokia, but his work has
> nothing to do with JSPWiki.
>
> Andrew Jaquith is a senior analyst at Yankee Group, an ICT research
> and consulting firm. He covers security for Yankee. Nokia, curiously,
> is one of Yankee's customers, but apparently not the part that Janne
> works for. :)
>
> Christoph Sauer is a researcher at the Heilbronn University, Germany.
> He is a Project Manager at the Heilbronn Universities i3G Institute,
> which offers business services for small and medium sized companies.
>
> Juan Pablo Santos works as a Software Engineer in Secuenzia, an IT
> consulting firm in Madrid.
>
> Sponsors
>
> Champion
>
> Champion: Dave Johnson
> Nominated Mentors
>
> People who have announced their willingness to be Mentors are
>
> * Dave Johnson
> * Sam Ruby
> * Henning Schmiedehausen
>
> Sponsoring Entity
>
> Sponsoring entity should be the Incubator.
> PPMC
>
> The PPMC shall consist of initial committers and the Mentors.
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>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
+1 for the overall proposal (binding)
On 8/29/07, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
> Hello all!
>
> I am Janne Jalkanen, the lead developer of the open source wiki
> engine called JSPWiki, and I have a proposal for your enjoyment.
> This proposal is available in the web at http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/
> ApacheJSPWikiProposal, should you wish to help us to make it better.
>
> /Janne
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Re: [VOTE] JSPWiki Incubation
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On 9/12/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> ...I am posting this as a formal vote...
+1 for JSPWiki incubation.
-Bertrand
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Re: [VOTE] JSPWiki Incubation
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On 9/12/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Given that there was no [VOTE] explicitly posted, and at least one person
> comented that "I thought this was just the disussion and the vote would
> start afterwards", I am posting this as a formal vote.
Thanks, I was also thinking that the thread was for pre-vote discussion.
Anyway, here's my +1.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
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Re: [VOTE] JSPWiki Incubation
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
Hi Dave,
On Sep 17, 2007, at 1:53 PM, Dave wrote:
> I will go ahead and submit the mailing list and subversion space
> requests to the Infrastructure JIRA. I'll take a look at the latest
> Incubator docs first and Roller's old request as an example before I
> do that.
>
> What else should we be doing now to get the new podling in place?
>
Item 0: get contributor license agreements from all the committers
and get them Apache ids.
Craig
> - Dave
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: [VOTE] JSPWiki Incubation
Posted by Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com>.
Thank you for your vote of confidence. We shall endeavour to be
worth your trust! :-)
/Janne
On 17 Sep 2007, at 23:53, Dave wrote:
> On 9/12/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
>>> Are we ready to incubate?
>
> Time to sum up the vote:
>
> Votes:
> +1 Matthieu Riou
> +1 Alexey Petrenko
> +1 Martijn Dashorst
>
> Binding votes:
> +1 Craig Russell
> +1 Noel Bergman
> +1 Henri Yandell
> +1 Nicolas Hedman
> +1 Ted Husted
> +1 Dave Johnson
> +1 Jukka Zitting
> +1 Bertrand Delacretaz
> +1 Henning Schmiedehausen
>
> And we have mentors:
> - Dave Johnson
> - Sam Ruby
> - Henning Schmiedehausen
> - Craig L Russell
>
> Congratulations JSPWiki project, you are accepted into the Apache
> Incubator. May you enjoy your time in incubation, but not so much that
> you lose your desire to graduate ;-)
>
> I will go ahead and submit the mailing list and subversion space
> requests to the Infrastructure JIRA. I'll take a look at the latest
> Incubator docs first and Roller's old request as an example before I
> do that.
>
> What else should we be doing now to get the new podling in place?
>
> - Dave
>
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RE: [VOTE] JSPWiki Incubation
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> +1 Matthieu Riou
Binding. Matthieu was elected to the PMC recently.
--- Noel
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Re: [VOTE] JSPWiki Incubation
Posted by Dave <sn...@gmail.com>.
On 9/12/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > Are we ready to incubate?
Time to sum up the vote:
Votes:
+1 Matthieu Riou
+1 Alexey Petrenko
+1 Martijn Dashorst
Binding votes:
+1 Craig Russell
+1 Noel Bergman
+1 Henri Yandell
+1 Nicolas Hedman
+1 Ted Husted
+1 Dave Johnson
+1 Jukka Zitting
+1 Bertrand Delacretaz
+1 Henning Schmiedehausen
And we have mentors:
- Dave Johnson
- Sam Ruby
- Henning Schmiedehausen
- Craig L Russell
Congratulations JSPWiki project, you are accepted into the Apache
Incubator. May you enjoy your time in incubation, but not so much that
you lose your desire to graduate ;-)
I will go ahead and submit the mailing list and subversion space
requests to the Infrastructure JIRA. I'll take a look at the latest
Incubator docs first and Roller's old request as an example before I
do that.
What else should we be doing now to get the new podling in place?
- Dave
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Re: [VOTE] JSPWiki Incubation
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
+1. I'm a big fan of JSPWiki from a couple of years back and hope to
be able to get a little involved.
Hen
On 9/12/07, Matthieu Riou <ma...@offthelip.org> wrote:
> +1, JSPWiki looks like a good podling.
>
> On 9/12/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Are we ready to incubate?
> >
> > Seems as if we have:
> >
> > Dave Johnson
> > Sam Ruby
> > Henning Schmiedehausen
> > Craig L Russell
> >
> > as Mentors.
> >
> > Given that there was no [VOTE] explicitly posted, and at least one person
> > comented that "I thought this was just the disussion and the vote would
> > start afterwards", I am posting this as a formal vote. So far we have:
> >
> > > Binding:
> > > +1 Craig Russell
> > > +1 Noel Bergman
> > > +1 Nicolas Hedman
> > > +1 Ted Husted
> > >
> > > Other:
> > > +1 Dave Johnson (retroactively binding?)
> >
> > Barring any changes, it will be as of Thursday, so yes.
> >
> > > +1 Alexey Petrenko
> > > +1 Martijn Dashorst
> >
> > Run this until Friday, then post (and act on) the results.
> >
> > --- Noel
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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Re: [VOTE] JSPWiki Incubation
Posted by Matthieu Riou <ma...@offthelip.org>.
+1, JSPWiki looks like a good podling.
On 9/12/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
>
> > Are we ready to incubate?
>
> Seems as if we have:
>
> Dave Johnson
> Sam Ruby
> Henning Schmiedehausen
> Craig L Russell
>
> as Mentors.
>
> Given that there was no [VOTE] explicitly posted, and at least one person
> comented that "I thought this was just the disussion and the vote would
> start afterwards", I am posting this as a formal vote. So far we have:
>
> > Binding:
> > +1 Craig Russell
> > +1 Noel Bergman
> > +1 Nicolas Hedman
> > +1 Ted Husted
> >
> > Other:
> > +1 Dave Johnson (retroactively binding?)
>
> Barring any changes, it will be as of Thursday, so yes.
>
> > +1 Alexey Petrenko
> > +1 Martijn Dashorst
>
> Run this until Friday, then post (and act on) the results.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
>
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>
Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Christian Geisert <ch...@isu-gmbh.de>.
Henning Schmiedehausen schrieb:
> Huh, am I late?
Me too ;-)
I thought this was just the disussion and the vote would start afterwards.
Anyway, as a long time JSPWiki user
+1
--
Christian
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org>.
Huh, am I late?
+1 (mentoring JSPWiki... ;-) )
Best regards
Henning
On Tue, 2007-09-11 at 22:41 -0400, Dave wrote:
> The proposal was posted Aug. 29, we're up to 4 or 5 binding +1 votes
> now and no -1 vote have been cast.
>
> Binding:
> +1 Craig Russell
> +1 Noel Bergman
> +1 Nicolas Hedman
> +1 Ted Husted
>
> Other:
> +1 Dave Johnson (retroactively binding?)
> +1 Alexey Petrenko
> +1 Martijn Dashorst
>
> Are we ready to incubate?
>
> - Dave
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
I'd count "Snoop" Dave Johnson as a binding vote, being Incubator PMC.
Time's up. Go for't.
Craig
On Sep 11, 2007, at 7:41 PM, Dave wrote:
> The proposal was posted Aug. 29, we're up to 4 or 5 binding +1 votes
> now and no -1 vote have been cast.
>
> Binding:
> +1 Craig Russell
> +1 Noel Bergman
> +1 Nicolas Hedman
> +1 Ted Husted
>
> Other:
> +1 Dave Johnson (retroactively binding?)
> +1 Alexey Petrenko
> +1 Martijn Dashorst
>
> Are we ready to incubate?
>
> - Dave
>
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>
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
RE: [VOTE] JSPWiki Incubation
Posted by Henning Schmiedehausen <hp...@intermeta.de>.
+1 to incubation. Go JSPWiki!
On Wed, 2007-09-12 at 13:16 -0400, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > Are we ready to incubate?
>
> Seems as if we have:
>
> Dave Johnson
> Sam Ruby
> Henning Schmiedehausen
> Craig L Russell
>
> as Mentors.
>
> Given that there was no [VOTE] explicitly posted, and at least one person
> comented that "I thought this was just the disussion and the vote would
> start afterwards", I am posting this as a formal vote. So far we have:
>
> > Binding:
> > +1 Craig Russell
> > +1 Noel Bergman
> > +1 Nicolas Hedman
> > +1 Ted Husted
> >
> > Other:
> > +1 Dave Johnson (retroactively binding?)
>
> Barring any changes, it will be as of Thursday, so yes.
>
> > +1 Alexey Petrenko
> > +1 Martijn Dashorst
>
> Run this until Friday, then post (and act on) the results.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
>
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91054 Buckenhof, Germany -- +49 9131 506540 | Apache person
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RE: [VOTE] JSPWiki Incubation
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> Are we ready to incubate?
Seems as if we have:
Dave Johnson
Sam Ruby
Henning Schmiedehausen
Craig L Russell
as Mentors.
Given that there was no [VOTE] explicitly posted, and at least one person
comented that "I thought this was just the disussion and the vote would
start afterwards", I am posting this as a formal vote. So far we have:
> Binding:
> +1 Craig Russell
> +1 Noel Bergman
> +1 Nicolas Hedman
> +1 Ted Husted
>
> Other:
> +1 Dave Johnson (retroactively binding?)
Barring any changes, it will be as of Thursday, so yes.
> +1 Alexey Petrenko
> +1 Martijn Dashorst
Run this until Friday, then post (and act on) the results.
--- Noel
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Dave <sn...@gmail.com>.
The proposal was posted Aug. 29, we're up to 4 or 5 binding +1 votes
now and no -1 vote have been cast.
Binding:
+1 Craig Russell
+1 Noel Bergman
+1 Nicolas Hedman
+1 Ted Husted
Other:
+1 Dave Johnson (retroactively binding?)
+1 Alexey Petrenko
+1 Martijn Dashorst
Are we ready to incubate?
- Dave
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
+1 for incubation.
It's clear to me from the discussion here that the prospective
project is aware of most of the IP, licensing, and third party issues
that we deal with at Apache, and I welcome the opportunity to have
them continue work in Apache.
I'll even volunteer to help mentor if that's needed.
Craig
On Aug 29, 2007, at 2:02 PM, Janne Jalkanen wrote:
> Hello all!
>
> I am Janne Jalkanen, the lead developer of the open source wiki
> engine called JSPWiki, and I have a proposal for your enjoyment.
> This proposal is available in the web at http://www.jspwiki.org/
> wiki/ApacheJSPWikiProposal, should you wish to help us to make it
> better.
>
> /Janne
>
> ---------
>
> Abstract
>
> Apache JSPWiki will be a modular and user-extensible wiki-engine,
> based on the open source JSPWiki software.
>
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On 8/30/07, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
> I am Janne Jalkanen, the lead developer of the open source wiki
> engine called JSPWiki, and I have a proposal for your enjoyment.
Nice!
> In the future, we expect to integrate somewhat with Jackrabbit.
Having worked on wiki stuff before and now on Jackrabbit, I'd be happy
to contribute something, though at least in near future I don't have
too many spare cycles. I guess I'll at least lurk on the mailing list.
:-)
BR,
Jukka Zitting
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Alexey Petrenko <al...@gmail.com>.
+1
2007/8/30, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com>:
> Hello all!
>
> I am Janne Jalkanen, the lead developer of the open source wiki
> engine called JSPWiki, and I have a proposal for your enjoyment.
> This proposal is available in the web at http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/
> ApacheJSPWikiProposal, should you wish to help us to make it better.
>
> /Janne
>
> ---------
>
> Abstract
>
> Apache JSPWiki will be a modular and user-extensible wiki-engine,
> based on the open source JSPWiki software.
>
> Proposal
>
> JSPWiki is a wiki engine available under the Lesser General Public
> License. It has a very modular construction, and integrates
> relatively nicely with a bunch of enterprise systems. It is also
> inherently embeddable, and has been incorporated as a component in a
> few different commercial and open source products.
>
> The latest JSPWiki, 2.6, supports AJAX and full I18N, pluggable
> backends, pluggable editors, an expressive markup, a plugin
> framework, a filter framework, and built-in URL rewriting.
>
> JSPWiki also has a nice unit test set of over 700 unit tests which
> have been invaluable in keeping compatibility between releases.
> Background
>
> In the past few years, wikis have become a common collaborative tool.
> They are light-weight, open, and easy to deploy. The English
> Wikipedia, currently the largest public wiki site, contains nearly
> two million pages.
>
> Wikis were originally designed to be small group collaboration tools,
> but they have proven to be scalable to a large number of users, as
> evidenced by the Wikipedia example. However, their most common use is
> still within companies and other entities which deploy them as
> collaboration tools, augmenting and even replacing traditional CSCW
> tools.
>
> JSPWiki was originally created to address the same group
> collaboration tool needs as so many other wiki engines. Its goals
> were from the start to provide extensibility and user power, while
> keeping the core functionality clear. Since it's inception in 2001,
> it has grown to be one of the more popular open source wikiengines,
> at least in the Java arena. It currently ships with the Sun Portal
> Server 7, and features as an integral part of the Intland Codebeamer
> development environment.
>
> Rationale
>
> JSPWiki has grown nicely over the past few years, and currently
> averages around 2000 downloads monthly. The users-list has at the
> writing of this 207 members, and the developers mailing list has 34
> members. There are currently six people with commit access to the CVS
> codebase.
>
> However, there is a chasm to how large an open source project can
> grow under a "benevolent dictator" –model. Many corporations are
> relying on the JSPWiki code base, and joining Apache would lessen the
> risks involved in using it, thus giving more entities an opportunity
> to use this advanced project. Joining Apache would make us less
> dependent on individual developers and would strengthen our community.
>
> We also feel that the introduction of Apache processes would increase
> the code quality, as well as bring more interested developers to this
> project.
>
> Apache is also lacking a wiki engine. It is currently using either
> commercial software (Confluence) or Python-based wiki software
> (MoinMoin) as its own projects. As wikis are becoming the workhorse
> of many projects, we feel that it would bring a good addition to the
> Apache community.
>
> Initial Goals
>
> The initial goals of the project is to release JSPWiki 2.8 under the
> Apache license:
>
> * Bring in the JSPWiki 2.6 stable code base into Apache and
> apply Apache licensing and remove incompatible dependencies (see
> ApacheRelicensing for more discussion.)
> * Release JSPWiki 2.8 as a clone of JSPWiki 2.6 - with some bug
> fixes and Apache licensing, however keeping compatibility with
> JSPWiki 2.6. This means that we cannot e.g. change the package naming
> from "com.ecyrd.jspwiki" or else all old plugins will fail. It is yet
> unclear whether this will be acceptable to ASF.
>
> After that, we will start working on JSPWiki 3.0:
>
> * Clean up our metadata and backend support by adding JSR-170
> repository support
> * Adoption of a more flexible web framework (Stripes, an Apache-
> licensed project)
> * Multi-wiki support (so-called WikiFarms, or WikiWebs or
> WikiSpaces)
> * Move to "org.apache.jspwiki" -structure, breaking
> compatibility with 2.x series
> * Cleanup of the APIs and some refactoring which has been due
> for a long time
>
> Current Status
>
> JSPWiki code base is relatively stable, and even though some parts
> are certainly showing their age, the code is clearly laid out (we
> originally used the Avalon coding conventions, but since then it has
> been slightly modified), and is often thanked for its clarity. We use
> the Facade and Adapter patterns extensively across JSPWiki.
>
> The current development practice has mostly been a Linux-like
> "benevolent dictator" -model. There have been no major clashes on the
> mailing lists, and the community tends to be helpful, even if
> sometimes a little slow in helping others.
>
> Meritocracy
>
> JSPWiki has always tried to grant commit access to people who have
> proven themselves as willing and capable of contributing to the code
> base, UI design, documentation, etc. We will certainly continue this
> practice, as it has proven to be very useful. We hope that the Apache
> process will make it even more practical.
>
> Community
>
> JSPWiki has existed since 2001, and during its life, the community
> has been growing steadily. Currently there is some 200-odd members on
> the jspwiki-users mailing list, and 34 members on the jspwiki-dev-
> users mailing list.
>
> JSPWiki has also been a subject of some scientific papers, and is
> used as a development platform.
>
> Core Developers
>
> The core developers consist of Janne Jalkanen (Finnish, the original
> lead developer and still the person with the most commits), Andrew
> Jaquith (USA, a security guru), Dirk Frederickx (Belgium, our user
> experience specialist), Christoph Sauer (Germany, the maintainer of
> the WikiWizard editor), and Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez (Spain, the
> i18n specialist).
>
> We are a diverse group, though concentrated mostly in the Western
> countries.
>
> Alignment
>
> We use Tomcat as our main development platform, and we are already
> using a large number of Apache components from Log4j and regexps to
> Commons Lang.
>
> In the future, we are planning to turn our backend to use JSR-170,
> which makes Apache Jackrabbit an obvious bit of the future, though
> the migration from our current repository model is still unclear.
>
> Our coding rules are also based on Apache Avalon coding rules.
>
> Known Risks
>
> Changing a large code base from one license to another always entails
> risks. There may be users who might object to moving from GNU to
> Apache on idealistic grounds, but most of the users will probably
> take a pragmatic approach.
>
> Another problem may be if we cannot locate suitable non-GPL options
> for our components. This may mean long delays, as we may need to
> develop alternatives ourselves.
>
> Also, the move is likely – at least initially – to divert resources
> from development to bureucracy. This is likely to strain a nerve or
> two. This can hopefully be mitigated by the Mentors by providing
> clear guidance.
>
> To be fully blunt, I (Janne Jalkanen) also feel a bit queasy on
> giving control of JSPWiki – my pet, which I have groomed for many
> years – away to a foundation. However, this is something which is
> better in long term for JSPWiki, and therefore it is worth the
> sacrifices.
>
> JSPWiki 2.8 is designed to be a low-risk, low-hanging-fruit type of a
> release, assuming that ASF is fine with the package not being in the
> "org.apache" hierarchy. If not, we have no choice but to wait until
> 3.0 since breaking the binary compatibility twice in a row would mean
> problems for all developers.
> Orphaned products
>
> Since JSPWiki has been lead using a "benevolent dictator" –model, the
> largest knowledge of the code base rests on Janne Jalkanen. Janne has
> no plans to leave JSPWiki development, but certainly there is a need
> to get more people who have an intimate knowledge of the code base
> (and the decisions thereof).
>
> Inexperience with Open Source
>
> JSPWiki was started as an open source project in June 2001, and has
> remained an open source project since. Issue tracking and mailing
> lists have been open to everyone from day one.
>
> Homogenous Developers
>
> The current list of committers includes people from five countries,
> four timezones and two continents. Regular patches come in also from
> other countries.
>
> Reliance on Salaried Developers
>
> There are currently no people on the committer list who get paid to
> work on JSPWiki. However, we do get patches from a number of
> companies with a vested interest in JSPWiki.
>
> JSPWiki is in no way reliant on salaried coders.
>
> Relationships with Other Apache Products
>
> JSPWiki uses quite a few different Apache projects already, and, of
> course, runs on top of Tomcat (though it has been developed to be
> pure J2EE only and in no way relies on any specific functionality).
>
> In the future, we expect to integrate somewhat with Jackrabbit.
>
> A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand
>
> JSPWiki could continue on its own, no worries. However, we do feel
> that our customers and users would feel more comfortable if there was
> a "name" attached to it – because it lessens the risk of JSPWiki just
> going away some day.
>
> To be frank, we are more interested in the Apache processes and the
> stability Apache would bring to the project than the actual name. We
> also hope that Apache will adopt us as their wiki solution ;-)
>
> Documentation
>
> The chief JSPWiki resource is the http://www.jspwiki.org/ web site.
> It is further amended by the JSPWiki documentation site (http://
> doc.jspwiki.org/2.4) as well as the JSPWiki-users and JSPWiki-dev
> mailing list archives at http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-users/
> and http://ecyrd.com/pipermail/jspwiki-dev/.
>
> Initial Source
>
> There is an initial source base of approximately 70,000 lines of
> code. (According to an estimate by the Ohloh code search engine, this
> amounts to roughly 17 person years).
>
> Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan
>
> * jspwiki.org domain from Janne Jalkanen
> * JSPWiki source code from all contributors (CLAs need to be done)
>
> External Dependencies
>
> JSPWiki is relying already extensively on a number of Apache-licensed
> libraries. However, we are also using some LGPL-based libraries,
> which will either need to be replaced or rewritten. The current list
> of dependencies and the migration plan is available here:
>
> http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ApacheRelicensing
>
> Cryptography
>
> JSPWiki uses only cryptography methods (hash codes) available in the
> J2SE itself. There is one exception to this rule, however: we use a
> slightly modified version of the Apache Tomcat's HexUtils for
> converting byte arrays into hexadecimal digits.
> (org.apache.catalina.util.HexUtils).
>
> Required Resources
>
> Mailing lists
>
> JSPWiki currently operates on two mailing lists - jspwiki-
> users@jspwiki.org, and jspwiki-dev@jspwiki.org. It would be good to
> continue these both also under Apache Incubation, with the addition
> of the mandatory jspwiki-private. A jspwiki-commits -list might also
> be useful.
>
> * jspwiki-users (contains the existing members of the jspwiki-
> users)
> * jspwiki-dev (the members of the existing jspwiki-dev)
> * jspwiki-commits (new list for announcing commits to the svn
> repository)
> * jspwiki-private (for the PPMC, with moderated subscriptions)
>
> Subversion Directory
>
> JSPWiki code base should be named "jspwiki", as in
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jspwiki
>
> Issue Tracking
>
> Current JSPWiki bug tracking is done at http://bugs.jspwiki.org/,
> using Bugzilla 3.0. It would be good to be able to move the current
> bug list to the Apache Bugzilla. The project name should be "JSPWiki".
>
> If the bug list cannot be moved, then we can continue to use the
> JSPWiki bug tracker.
> Other Resources
>
> * www.jspwiki.org website
> * doc.jspwiki.org
> * blog.jspwiki.org
> * sandbox.jspwiki.org (wiped at noon GMT with a custom script).
> * bugs.jspwiki.org
>
> Some or all of these can be moved to Apache. However, deeper
> discussions need to be made on which ones Apache is willing to host.
>
> Initial Committers
>
> * Janne Jalkanen (jalkanen@ecyrd.com)
> * Andrew Jaquith (andrew@freshcookies.org)
> * Dirk Frederickx (dirk.frederickx@gmail.com)
> * Christoph Sauer (sauer@hs-heilbronn.de)
> * Juan Pablo Santos Rodríquez (juanpablo.santos@gmail.com)
> * Murray Altheim (murray07@altheim.com)
>
> None of the initial committers have yet submitted a CLA.
>
> Affiliations
>
> Janne Jalkanen works as a Project Manager in Nokia, but his work has
> nothing to do with JSPWiki.
>
> Andrew Jaquith is a senior analyst at Yankee Group, an ICT research
> and consulting firm. He covers security for Yankee. Nokia, curiously,
> is one of Yankee's customers, but apparently not the part that Janne
> works for. :)
>
> Christoph Sauer is a researcher at the Heilbronn University, Germany.
> He is a Project Manager at the Heilbronn Universities i3G Institute,
> which offers business services for small and medium sized companies.
>
> Juan Pablo Santos works as a Software Engineer in Secuenzia, an IT
> consulting firm in Madrid.
>
> Sponsors
>
> Champion
>
> Champion: Dave Johnson
> Nominated Mentors
>
> People who have announced their willingness to be Mentors are
>
> * Dave Johnson
> * Sam Ruby
> * Henning Schmiedehausen
>
> Sponsoring Entity
>
> Sponsoring entity should be the Incubator.
> PPMC
>
> The PPMC shall consist of initial committers and the Mentors.
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>
Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Thursday 06 September 2007 17:56, Janne Jalkanen wrote:
> We are tracking the progress here:
>
> http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ApacheRelicensing
I think this is excellent and shows that you are on top of things.
+1 to bring JSPWiki to incubation at ASF.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com>.
> In my (totally non-lawyer) opinion, the cleanest way to change the
> JSPWiki code to the Apache License might be for the project to release
> an Apache License version of their code, before coming to the
> Incubator, using their existing release channels.
>
> This would mean that the existing community has agreed on this, with
> the release being a very public notice of the agreement.
There's just one catch: if we do the license change first, and then
Apache says "nah, we're not interested", we have done all the work
for nothing.
Also, moving the development (and the mailing lists) to Apache
Incubator would also be a very public notice of the agreement. We
would, of course, make big noise about this on our web site as well.
All of our current contributors are aware of this already and have
agreed to the license change. The people who are no longer a part of
the community would not notice it on the Apache website, nor on the
JSPWiki web site - they are no longer using the software anyway.
And, as I said, we have already tracked down everyone (save one, and
I know his boss personally ;-) and received permission to do this. I
don't know whether all of them need to sign a CLA though...
We are tracking the progress here:
http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ApacheRelicensing
/Janne
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Sep 6, 2007, at 11:52 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On 9/6/07, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
>
>> ...So, any advice on this matter?...
>
> In my (totally non-lawyer) opinion, the cleanest way to change the
> JSPWiki code to the Apache License might be for the project to release
> an Apache License version of their code, before coming to the
> Incubator, using their existing release channels.
>
> This would mean that the existing community has agreed on this, with
> the release being a very public notice of the agreement.
>
> -Bertrand
IMO this would not mean much and the code would still require IP
clearance in the Incubator. E.g. the Cayenne project was under Apache
license, and we still had to contact all contributors and collect all
the CLA's. So no simplification of the procedure at all.
Cheers,
Andrus
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On 9/6/07, Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
> ...So, any advice on this matter?...
In my (totally non-lawyer) opinion, the cleanest way to change the
JSPWiki code to the Apache License might be for the project to release
an Apache License version of their code, before coming to the
Incubator, using their existing release channels.
This would mean that the existing community has agreed on this, with
the release being a very public notice of the agreement.
-Bertrand
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com>.
> IANAL, but I am pretty sure you are right. However, I think there
> is an issue
> on "how simple is simple?". It seems common to talk about 10 lines
> of code
> are not infringements, but then noone give any hint of an upper
> limit. I
> think it would be good if it could be documented somehow, to get a
> better
> view.
Well, you can't really say for sure how many lines constitutes an
original work. Sometimes even long strips of code could be deemed
non-copyrightable, due to e.g. heavy use of cut-n-paste, or e.g. a
straightforward implementation of a well-known algorithm. And
sometimes, a short piece of code, being brilliant and non-obvious
might be considered an original body of work.
This is a thorny subject and the conventions change from country to
country. Finland has a copyright board for issuing recommendations
on a case-by-case on whether something is an original enough body of
work or not. Most often they are actually not.
In addition, since many, many patches have over the years been
changed, it's very difficult to say whether the original body of work
still exists and how much of it still exists. These would need to be
resolved case-by-case.
Here's the crappy thing: I know Apache wants to have existing
communities. But you can't have an existing community without some
existing work. And if Apache is very stingy on the requirements that
every single small patch author needs to have a CLA on file, then
it's going to be really difficult - in certain cases even impossible
- to get these works into Apache :-(.
So, any advice on this matter?
/Janne
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Thursday 06 September 2007 00:45, Janne Jalkanen wrote:
> simple patches do not cross the
> boundary of an original work, and therefore cannot be claimed to be
> copyrighted.
IANAL, but I am pretty sure you are right. However, I think there is an issue
on "how simple is simple?". It seems common to talk about 10 lines of code
are not infringements, but then noone give any hint of an upper limit. I
think it would be good if it could be documented somehow, to get a better
view.
Cheers
Niclas
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RE: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> We have all but one tracked down and all have already agreed.
> The question is whether they need to sign CLAs or whether it
> is just enough that they verbally in an email agree to the
> license change.
If they want to continue development, they must sign a CLA. If they just
want to grant license, they can submit a Software Grant.
--- Noel
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Janne Jalkanen <Ja...@ecyrd.com>.
> I believe Janne has already looked into this and has a good list of
> all former contributors. Janne, can you comment on the difficulty of
> this challenge?
Already ahead of you. We have all but one tracked down and all have
already agreed. The question is whether they need to sign CLAs or
whether it is just enough that they verbally in an email agree to the
license change.
I have discounted people who have just sent simple patches, since in
my admittedly non-legal opinion, simple patches do not cross the
boundary of an original work, and therefore cannot be claimed to be
copyrighted.
/Janne
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Dave <sn...@gmail.com>.
On 9/5/07, Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> > JSPWiki is a wiki engine available under the Lesser General Public
> > License.
> <snip>
> > The initial goals of the project is to release JSPWiki 2.8 under the
> > Apache license:
> Successfully executing the license change could prove to be a
> challenge. All past contributors to the project will need to agree to
> the license change. Contributions from those who do not agree to the
> license change (either because they cannot be tracked down or they just
> simply disagree with the license change) will need to be reverted and
> reimplemented.
I believe Janne has already looked into this and has a good list of
all former contributors. Janne, can you comment on the difficulty of
this challenge?
- Dave
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Re: [PROPOSAL] JSPWiki
Posted by Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com>.
<snip>
> JSPWiki is a wiki engine available under the Lesser General Public
> License.
<snip>
> The initial goals of the project is to release JSPWiki 2.8 under the
> Apache license:
Successfully executing the license change could prove to be a
challenge. All past contributors to the project will need to agree to
the license change. Contributions from those who do not agree to the
license change (either because they cannot be tracked down or they just
simply disagree with the license change) will need to be reverted and
reimplemented.
Bill
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