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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by ZedroS Schwart <ze...@gmail.com> on 2006/06/12 23:25:44 UTC
Re: Google Web Toolkit
So news on the Tapestry/GWT front ? I would love to hear what's coming !
Thanks in advance !
On 5/24/06, Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I got capture working
>
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit/browse_frm/thread/3e4954b5cc5f3492/8197b5a553276701#8197b5a553276701
>
> this is what I believe to be the first step to integrating GWT widgets
> into Tapestry forms.
>
> Now... back to Spindle 4T4!
>
> Geoff
>
> On 5/23/06, Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I was able to create, for example, a derivative of the GWT TextBox
> > (textfield) that, instead of creating one, captires one already on the
> > page effectively making it a GWT widget. But the event hookup is
> > incomplete so far.
> >
> > Have not figured out yet how useful that is but I could see that kind
> > of widget GWT-ifying form fields rendered by Tapestry. I guess at the
> > very least you could write client side validaters in java (which would
> > be cool indeed).
> >
> > Right now I'm in yet another death march at work but when I get a
> > minute away from that, and Spindle 4T4, I'm going to see if I can
> > change the autocompleter widget I wrote last weekend to add
> > autocomplete to a text field captured from the html.
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On 5/23/06, Peter Svensson <ps...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Geoff! Please drop a hint on how you think GWT could be integrated
> with tap.
> > > Cheers,
> > > PS
> > >
> > > On 5/23/06, Steven Bell <be...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the input Geoff,
> > > >
> > > > I've been mostly perusing the example apps, and haven't had a chance
> to
> > > > code
> > > > anything up myself. I'm glad to hear it can be pieced in, but I'm
> not
> > > > clear
> > > > on how that works.
> > > >
> > > > If there was just one more day in the week, and I could have it all
> to
> > > > myself. :)
> > > >
> > > > Like I said, it looks really interesting, I'll need to find time to
> really
> > > > dig into it.
> > > >
> > > > On 5/23/06, Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4. It doesn't lend itself to the separation of concerns between
> UI
> > > > > design
> > > > > > and webapp development.
> > > > >
> > > > > In its current form yes, and no. The widgetry created in code -
> yes.
> > > > > Where individual chunks of widgetry are located on a page - no. A
> page
> > > > > can be all GWT or just a few bits of it quite easily. And all
> widgetry
> > > > > is located via html and styled via css.
> > > > >
> > > > > > 5. It leaves you very locked into the tool and reliant on
> Google
> > > > (could
> > > > > be
> > > > > > good or bad, but leaves me a bit uneasy).
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd like to say "yes and no" but unfortunatley I can't. The
> compiler
> > > > > and dev tool are not open source but everyting else is.
> > > > >
> > > > > > 6. It seems to be an all or nothing thing. Use GWT or don't,
> there
> > > > is
> > > > > no
> > > > > > use GWT on these couple of pages, but not the rest.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope - this is untrue.
> > > > >
> > > > > > 7. It seems to lend itself to the 'one very dynamic page' type
> of
> > > > > webapp,
> > > > > > which is great for some things, but unworkable for others.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is true for a page that is all GWT widgets. Not true in
> general
> > > > > as you can use the widgets as pieces of a regualr page (and even
> call
> > > > > out to "native' js with ease). Somebody has already wrapped
> > > > > Scriptaculous as a Java class with native method calls out.
> > > > >
> > > > > > 8. If you some reason you ever have to debug or tweak the
> output html
> > > > > or
> > > > > > javascript god help you, cause I won't.
> > > > >
> > > > > You can set the compiler to output unobfuscated and uncompressed
> > > > > javascript. So, it's no harder to debug the js than you choose it
> to
> > > > > be.
> > > > >
> > > > > Although, I despise debugging js and much prefer being able to
> debug
> > > > > the java source code!
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Like I said I have only had a quick look at it so some of my
> > > > impressions
> > > > > my
> > > > > > be off base. I can see cases where this would be the greatest
> thing
> > > > > since
> > > > > > sliced bread, and others where it would be a nightmare to work
> with.
> > > > >
> > > > > It remains to be seen how GWT will go over. I like it. I wish I
> had
> > > > > more free time to play with it. I think I've figured out how to
> > > > > integrate GWT widgets with Tap (an approach anyway) but no time!
> > > > >
> > > > > Geoff
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 5/23/06, Konstantin Ignatyev <kg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I do not miss Flash even a bit and do not want to spend any
> time on
> > > > > > > configuring that. If site requires flash then they do not have
> my
> > > > > business.
> > > > > > > I mention this problem only to show situation where Flash is
> not
> > > > that
> > > > > easy
> > > > > > > to install.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Alex Kartashev <al...@gmail.com> wrote: Yeah... I
> think you
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > install 32-bit version of flash and it would
> > > > > > > work.... Or you may need to install a 32-bit version of
> Firefox. I
> > > > > > > remember I had this problem on Fedora Core 4 on AMD64 kernel.
> Yes...
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > need the Firefox version from 32-bit distro.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Serge
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Konstantin Ignatyev wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Agreed. Easines of getting JVM is the key. Win comes without
> Flash
> > > > > but it
> > > > > > > is easy and relatively fast to install it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >The problem should be solved: JVM should be easy to install,
> easier
> > > > > than
> > > > > > > Flash (whish does not work at all on my 64bit Gentoo- not that
> I
> > > > miss
> > > > > it).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Sergei Dubov wrote: Interesting... How can an applet be a
> viable
> > > > > > > alternative if it needs a
> > > > > > > >JVM to run, and Windoz comes without it. I think this problem
> needs
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > >be solved first if applets/JWS are to come back into fashion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >-Serge
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Konstantin Ignatyev wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>Paul Cantrell wrote: Horrible, horrible, GridBagLayout....
> I
> > > > loathe
> > > > > it.
> > > > > > > What an awful
> > > > > > > >>mess. CSS is so many thousands of times nicer for doing
> layout....
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Couple of wrapper functions to constraints make it very easy
> to
> > > > use,
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > to mention that it is very easy to arrange components in UI
> editor
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > NetBeans.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>And if you do not like it, then there is plenty of layout
> managers
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > Swing
> > > > > > > >>http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Javadesktop/3thParty
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>I am sympathetic to the "applets not Javascript" argument,
> though.
> > > > > > > >>"Applets with CSS layout" would be especially nice.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>But applets don't integrate well with the flow of the web:
> like
> > > > > Flash-
> > > > > > > >>based sites, you can't bookmark them, search engines can't
> index
> > > > > > > >>them, etc.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>I was talking at conceptual level, by no means I consider
> current
> > > > > state
> > > > > > > of Applets to be ideal. But the problems you have mentioned
> are
> > > > very
> > > > > common
> > > > > > > for all kinds of stateful techniques: Tapestry, heavy Ajax
> > > > > applilications,
> > > > > > > Echo2, and I guess GWT. Even if continuation is used it is
> still
> > > > hard
> > > > > to do,
> > > > > > > for example fhat good will it do if we will be able to
> bookmark a
> > > > > > > purchasing transaction in the middle?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>On Flash - the technology does not make sense at all: it is
> > > > crippled
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > simplified JVM that runs one Flash VM per Flash that quickly
> brings
> > > > > any
> > > > > > > comp on the knees when number of flashes grows beyond 10. Not
> to
> > > > > mention
> > > > > > > inability to share and reuse fllash libraries on client. And
> if they
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > try to implement all that in the Flash VM then it will be as
> heavy
> > > > as
> > > > > Java.
> > > > > > > If Java RT was modular then Applets would be able to do
> everything
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > Flash does but more efficiently.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>There are limits to what they're good for. If there were a
> > > > > > > >>good way to attach Java to a page's DOM, then we'd be
> cooking.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>I do not think so. We will be still dependent on browser's
> > > > > abilities,
> > > > > > > and IMO emerging trends indicate that people want to break
> free from
> > > > > > > limitations of HTML and browser while being able to make use
> of it.
> > > > > > > >>I wonder how limited GWT is in this respect? Tapestry works
> very
> > > > > hard
> > > > > > > >>to respect the client's control of their browser.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>P
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>On May 21, 2006, at 12:47 PM, Konstantin Ignatyev wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>>http://www.swixml.org/
> > > > > > > >>>http://www.java2s.com/Product/Swing/LookAndFeel.htm
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>And Swing can support any kind of layout managers but I
> have
> > > > found
> > > > > > > >>>GridBagLayout to be very flexible and good for nearly
> everything
> > > > I
> > > > > > > >>>do with Swing.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>Therefore I think it does not make sense to try
> (re)creating
> > > > Swing
> > > > > > > >>>in browsers. Applets is what we really need :).
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>Norbert S�ndor wrote:The good thing in
> > > > > > > >>>GWT is to use the efficient development style of Swing
> > > > > > > >>>(I mean Java only, easy to debug/test) but allow to use the
> > > > > underlying
> > > > > > > >>>browser's HTML+CSS capatibilites for layout.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>Konstantin Ignatyev
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>PS: If this is a typical day on planet earth, humans will
> add
> > > > > > > >>>fifteen million tons of carbon to the atmosphere, destroy
> 115
> > > > > > > >>>square miles of tropical rainforest, create seventy-two
> miles of
> > > > > > > >>>desert, eliminate between forty to one hundred species,
> erode
> > > > > > > >>>seventy-one million tons of topsoil, add 2,700 tons of CFCs
> to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > >>>stratosphere, and increase their population by 263,000
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>Bowers, C.A. The Culture of Denial: Why the Environmental
> > > > > > > >>>Movement Needs a Strategy for Reforming Universities and
> Public
> > > > > > > >>>Schools. New York: State University of New York Press,
> 1997:
> > > > (4)
> > > > > > > >>>(5) (p.206)
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >>Piano music podcast: http://inthehands.com
> > > > > > > >>Other interesting stuff: http://innig.net
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > > > >>For additional commands, e-mail:
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> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
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> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Konstantin Ignatyev
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PS: If this is a typical day on planet earth, humans will add
> > > > fifteen
> > > > > > > million tons of carbon to the atmosphere, destroy 115 square
> miles
> > > > of
> > > > > > > tropical rainforest, create seventy-two miles of desert,
> eliminate
> > > > > between
> > > > > > > forty to one hundred species, erode seventy-one million tons
> of
> > > > > topsoil, add
> > > > > > > 2,700 tons of CFCs to the stratosphere, and increase their
> > > > population
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > 263,000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bowers, C.A. The Culture of Denial: Why the Environmental
> Movement
> > > > > Needs
> > > > > > > a Strategy for Reforming Universities and Public Schools. New
> > > > > York: State
> > > > > > > University of New York Press, 1997: (4) (5) (p.206)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Steven Bell
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> > > > > Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> > > > > Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Steven Bell
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> > Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> > Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
> >
>
>
> --
> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> Blog: http://jroller.com/page/glongman
> Other interests: http://www.squidoo.com/spaceelevator/
>
Re: Google Web Toolkit
Posted by Orlando Brea <or...@gmail.com>.
Tapestry has a big advantage over GWT, the easy separation of the html and
all the other stuff. GWT is a little more tricky on that, it's like swing,
you are defining your GUI by code (java code) and it's a step back on web
GUIs. It's harder for a web designer to touch the GWT code, the tap code is
more friendly. It's easier to do a accesible site with tapestry than with
GWT.
I saw that the GWT code starts to grow bigger and bigger.
See you,
Orlando F. Brea