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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> on 2006/04/26 06:45:34 UTC
[all] Jira?
I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
Hen
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Simon Kitching <sk...@apache.org>.
I believe that one of the justifications for installing JIRA in the
first place was that maintaining and upgrading Bugzilla was a big hassle
for the infrastructure team. If that's the case, I'd be willing to
consider moving; the infrastructure team have a hard job to do without
us making it harder.
But otherwise I'm perfectly happy with Bugzilla, and given that it's
Free while Jira is not, that tilts me towards staying with bugzilla.
Regards,
Simon
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@apache.org>.
> "And they conquered all of gaul .... really all .... no a small village
> resist ..." ;-)
Hehe ;)
> > ...and I hope that everyone who voted -1 has
> > actually tried to use jira before blocking things
> > for the wrong reasons.
> >
> Yes, the myfaces development team use it - and so do I.
> I cant say that there is a single function I use from jira which is not
> available in bugzilla.
> Sure, such functions exists, but I do not need them.
>
> And no - I dont think these are the wrong reasons ....
>
> If the tool (jira) will be less expensive I'll change my vote to +1. I
> dont think they share their benefit (testing, marketing, etc) with the rest.
> e.g. For those using Intellij IDEA it is much more a boost in
> productivity and cost much less. Same for their update price.
Well, your call ...sounds more like a "-0" too me though.
IMO we should concentrate on functionality first - not the political
statement because jira already *is* being used by the ASF. Who
cares if commons is not.
I am not saying the political discussion is bogus but should
probabaly discussed at a different level.
cheers
--
Torsten
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at>.
Hi!
> Guys, it's not as if jira isn't installed already ;)
> So the "buuuh! it's comercial" is a bit too late IMO.
>
"And they conquered all of gaul .... really all .... no a small village
resist ..." ;-)
> ...and I hope that everyone who voted -1 has
> actually tried to use jira before blocking things
> for the wrong reasons.
>
Yes, the myfaces development team use it - and so do I.
I cant say that there is a single function I use from jira which is not
available in bugzilla.
Sure, such functions exists, but I do not need them.
And no - I dont think these are the wrong reasons ....
If the tool (jira) will be less expensive I'll change my vote to +1. I
dont think they share their benefit (testing, marketing, etc) with the rest.
e.g. For those using Intellij IDEA it is much more a boost in
productivity and cost much less. Same for their update price.
Ciao,
Mario
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
Torsten Curdt a écrit :
> Guys, it's not as if jira isn't installed already ;)
> So the "buuuh! it's comercial" is a bit too late IMO.
>
> I am pretty much +1 ...but not religious about it
>
> ...and I hope that everyone who voted -1 has
> actually tried to use jira before blocking things
> for the wrong reasons.
I do use JIRA, and just like Mario I do not miss its extra features. I
just miss the nice style sheet which makes 90% of the popularity of JIRA
I think ;)
Emmanuel Bourg
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@apache.org>.
Guys, it's not as if jira isn't installed already ;)
So the "buuuh! it's comercial" is a bit too late IMO.
I am pretty much +1 ...but not religious about it
...and I hope that everyone who voted -1 has
actually tried to use jira before blocking things
for the wrong reasons.
Btw: we had pretty much the same discussion on cocoon-dev
and switched. Maybe worth looking at other teams to see how
the are doing with it?
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON
My 2 cents
cheers
--
Torsten
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
-1 as well for the same reasons. JIRA is a nice product, but Bugzilla is
quite good and fits our needs.
Emmanuel Bourg
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at>.
Hi Sandy,
> It doesn't make sense to be this adverse to commercial software if you
> agree with the ASL. If you truly have a distaste for commercial
> software then the GPL is probably more fitting with your goals.
>
I am not adverse to commercial software at all, we all have to make money.
We also use tons of open source libraries for our application.
I love the benefits of the ASL and this is why I am here :-)
Ciao,
Mario
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org>.
On 4/26/06, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> Hi!
> > I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
> > Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
> >
> I am -1 on moving to jira.
>
> I dont understand why we - the open source developers and our users -
> should help testing a commercial application.
> And given that even for a mid-size company the minimum required license
> is the "professional" one - and its update policy - it is a rather
> expensive thing.
>
> Also I dont understand whats the great benefit for us - compared to
> bugzilla - that we act as a marketing plattform for jira.
>
> Sorry if I completely missed the point. Do not hesitate to correct me.
> Ciao,
> Mario
It doesn't make sense to be this adverse to commercial software if you
agree with the ASL. If you truly have a distaste for commercial
software then the GPL is probably more fitting with your goals.
+0 I'm not that familar with Jira so I won't take a strong position
but I'm all for removing bariers from getting stuff done. If Jira lets
people do more with less effort then I'm all for it.
--
Sandy McArthur
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest."
- Thomas Paine
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On 4/25/06, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
>
> Hi!
> > I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
> > Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
> >
> I am -1 on moving to jira.
>
> I dont understand why we - the open source developers and our users -
> should help testing a commercial application.
> And given that even for a mid-size company the minimum required license
> is the "professional" one - and its update policy - it is a rather
> expensive thing.
Expensive? It's one of the least expensive enterprise-grade applications
I've ever seen! At $4,800 for an enterprise license and a $2,400 annual
upgrade, it's a steal. The serious competitors run into tens of thousands of
dollars for an enterprise license. Also, JIRA is free for all non-profit and
charitable organisations, and for open source.
Also I dont understand whats the great benefit for us - compared to
> bugzilla - that we act as a marketing plattform for jira.
We're no more a marketing platform for it than any of the other open source
organisations that use it. As others have pointed out, many projects - and I
do mean *many* projects - at the ASF already use it. See:
http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
One other point: JIRA is a glowing example of what open source can do. It is
built upon a ton of other open source projects, some of which were even
founded by the JIRA authors themselves.
As for features, I think the dashboard is very valuable, as is the project
summary, and the ability to use it for planning and roadmap tracking in a
*much* more usable manner than Bugzilla.
--
Martin Cooper
Sorry if I completely missed the point. Do not hesitate to correct me.
> Ciao,
> Mario
>
>
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>
Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Arnaud HERITIER <ah...@gmail.com>.
Another advantage it's the possibility to customize your dashboard(s) with a
lot of portlets.
You can define what you want to see : the issues open, your votes, ...
It's really useful for developers like us.
Cheers.
Arnaud (Maven's team)
On 4/26/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 4/25/06, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > > I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
> > > Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
> > >
> > I am -1 on moving to jira.
>
> Reason for mentioning Struts above was that I remembered that one of
> the -ve votes a few years ago on moving to Jira was from Martin and I
> thought some other Struts guys; thus the email to see if the consensus
> had moved.
>
> I'm +1 in favour of Jira, but not religious about it.
>
> > I dont understand why we - the open source developers and our users -
> > should help testing a commercial application.
>
> This is a common reason to not use Jira. From an ASF point of view,
> it's a bit weak I think. The ASF encourages companies to build
> commercial products on top of open-source software so using things
> like Jira is kind-of using our own dog-food.
>
> If Atlassin just offered Apache a licence, then it would be the kind
> of thing that we wouldnt accept. However if they offer it to everyone,
> then it's much the same kind of thing we push for at the JCP -
> open-source projects shouldn't be locked out due to lack of money.
>
> > Also I dont understand whats the great benefit for us - compared to
> > bugzilla - that we act as a marketing plattform for jira.
>
> Major advantages of Jira:
>
> * Project based administration - rather than central administration.
> * Visualization is much better - release management really shouldn't
> be maintaining a list of issues in wiki, it should be handled in the
> issue tracker. Well, you think it should after doing things in Jira
> anyway :)
> * Search sharing.
>
> There are probably other ones for other people, but for me I think it
> improves the speed in which we can identify open issues, which
> versions they're for etc. I'm getting better with Bugzilla now, but it
> still feel clunky.
>
> > Sorry if I completely missed the point. Do not hesitate to correct me.
>
> Nope, you got the point. Just me wondering if consensus had moved to
> Jira now that Struts (well Martin was the one I was IMing) are Jira
> fans.
>
> Hen
>
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>
Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 4/25/06, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> Hi!
> > I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
> > Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
> >
> I am -1 on moving to jira.
Reason for mentioning Struts above was that I remembered that one of
the -ve votes a few years ago on moving to Jira was from Martin and I
thought some other Struts guys; thus the email to see if the consensus
had moved.
I'm +1 in favour of Jira, but not religious about it.
> I dont understand why we - the open source developers and our users -
> should help testing a commercial application.
This is a common reason to not use Jira. From an ASF point of view,
it's a bit weak I think. The ASF encourages companies to build
commercial products on top of open-source software so using things
like Jira is kind-of using our own dog-food.
If Atlassin just offered Apache a licence, then it would be the kind
of thing that we wouldnt accept. However if they offer it to everyone,
then it's much the same kind of thing we push for at the JCP -
open-source projects shouldn't be locked out due to lack of money.
> Also I dont understand whats the great benefit for us - compared to
> bugzilla - that we act as a marketing plattform for jira.
Major advantages of Jira:
* Project based administration - rather than central administration.
* Visualization is much better - release management really shouldn't
be maintaining a list of issues in wiki, it should be handled in the
issue tracker. Well, you think it should after doing things in Jira
anyway :)
* Search sharing.
There are probably other ones for other people, but for me I think it
improves the speed in which we can identify open issues, which
versions they're for etc. I'm getting better with Bugzilla now, but it
still feel clunky.
> Sorry if I completely missed the point. Do not hesitate to correct me.
Nope, you got the point. Just me wondering if consensus had moved to
Jira now that Struts (well Martin was the one I was IMing) are Jira
fans.
Hen
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at>.
Hi!
> I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
> Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
>
I am -1 on moving to jira.
I dont understand why we - the open source developers and our users -
should help testing a commercial application.
And given that even for a mid-size company the minimum required license
is the "professional" one - and its update policy - it is a rather
expensive thing.
Also I dont understand whats the great benefit for us - compared to
bugzilla - that we act as a marketing plattform for jira.
Sorry if I completely missed the point. Do not hesitate to correct me.
Ciao,
Mario
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On 4/27/06, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>
> Henri Yandell wrote:
> > Given this positive feedback so far, I'm going to email the infra@
> > mailing list to see how they would go about doing it _if_ we decided
> > we wanted to move.
> >
> > I think we should be moving from 1 project with 37 components to 37
> > projects - it'll allow us to manage the components individually of
> > each other without the kind of version overlap and general noise
> > issues that we currently have.
>
> Jakarta Http Components just created their first Jira, and they got the
> name JHCHTTPCORE. Thus this _could_ get caught up in a debate about
> Jakarta and groupings.
>
> Personally, I'd like to see each component able to move grouping within
> Jakarta, thus we should use naming like JAKLANG or JAKARTALANG, rather
> than JLCLANG (for Jakarta Language Components).
Another option, now that infra is open, at least to some extent, to multiple
JIRA instances (Struts has its own, for example), is to create a separate
instance for Jakarta. Then you could just have LANG, and forget about
prefixes altogether.
--
Martin Cooper
We also need to be aware that about half the commons websites now have
> links tailored to bugzilla, and these links get placed into maven built
> distributed projects. Another bit of work to do.
>
> Stephen
>
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>
Re: Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects; WAS Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Thomas Dudziak <to...@gmail.com>.
On 4/28/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think it's important to have a scheme - it's just a project id
> that is used in such a way that users are aware of it. HCO, HTCO,
> JHTC. Doesn't matter and I agree with the Atlassian advice on it being
> a 3 or 4 letter code.
>
> So:
>
> LANG
> IO
> COLL
> CODX (though tempting to go with 5 letters when it fits, CODEC etc)
> ATTR
> BEAN
>
> etc.
>
> Dunno if that matches with the infra@ view. Having something with 11
> letters is a pain in the arse given that the only time I ever find
> myself using the id is: a) to discuss something outside of Jira and b)
> to enter into the find box in the top right.
I rarely if at all use the project names so for me at least their size
wouldn't matter. Besides, given the amount of projects at Jakarta, a
limitation of 3 or 4 makes it very hard to define meaningful names.
Not to mention that something like IO or LANG is quite generic - if
there would be projects that provide similar functionality in Perl or
C# then we would run into trouble (IO2, LANG2 ?). At least they could
be prefixed like this:
JAK_LANG
JAK_IO
JAK_COLL
JAK_CODEC
JAK_ATTR
JAK_BEAN
etc., or something similar.
cheers,
Tom
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Re: Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects; WAS Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On 4/28/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/28/06, Oleg Kalnichevski <ol...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > I also find JHCHTTPCORE absolutely horrible. I chose this id as I
> > thought it would be the most "politically correct" one. I would very
> > much rather prefer HTTPCORE or JHTTPCORE. Do you envisage a particular
> > Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects? At this point it is
> > still not too late for us to scrap the project and start over with a
> > different (better) project id.
>
> I don't think it's important to have a scheme - it's just a project id
> that is used in such a way that users are aware of it. HCO, HTCO,
> JHTC. Doesn't matter and I agree with the Atlassian advice on it being
> a 3 or 4 letter code.
>
> So:
>
> LANG
> IO
> COLL
> CODX (though tempting to go with 5 letters when it fits, CODEC etc)
> ATTR
> BEAN
>
> etc.
>
> Dunno if that matches with the infra@ view. Having something with 11
> letters is a pain in the arse given that the only time I ever find
> myself using the id is: a) to discuss something outside of Jira and b)
> to enter into the find box in the top right.
...and commit messages - since jira can link to commits if you put the
issue number in the commit message. My preference would be something
more relevant rather than 3/4 characters (e.g. I prefer BEANUTILS to
BEAN) - also what about filtering for the jira messages sent to the
list - again wouldn't e.g. BEANUTILS be better?
Struts recently moved to jira - apparently this can't be changed once
its set - so it needs to be right from the start.
Niall
> Hen
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Re: Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects; WAS Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Greg Reddin <gr...@apache.org>.
On Apr 28, 2006, at 10:29 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
> Dunno if that matches with the infra@ view. Having something with 11
> letters is a pain in the arse given that the only time I ever find
> myself using the id is: a) to discuss something outside of Jira and b)
> to enter into the find box in the top right.
You also have the ability to link svn commits to Jira tickets by
entering the ticket id in the commit message. Another reason for
going with short, but memorable id's.
Greg
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Re: Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects; WAS Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 4/28/06, Oleg Kalnichevski <ol...@apache.org> wrote:
> I also find JHCHTTPCORE absolutely horrible. I chose this id as I
> thought it would be the most "politically correct" one. I would very
> much rather prefer HTTPCORE or JHTTPCORE. Do you envisage a particular
> Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects? At this point it is
> still not too late for us to scrap the project and start over with a
> different (better) project id.
I don't think it's important to have a scheme - it's just a project id
that is used in such a way that users are aware of it. HCO, HTCO,
JHTC. Doesn't matter and I agree with the Atlassian advice on it being
a 3 or 4 letter code.
So:
LANG
IO
COLL
CODX (though tempting to go with 5 letters when it fits, CODEC etc)
ATTR
BEAN
etc.
Dunno if that matches with the infra@ view. Having something with 11
letters is a pain in the arse given that the only time I ever find
myself using the id is: a) to discuss something outside of Jira and b)
to enter into the find box in the top right.
Hen
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Re: Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects; WAS Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 4/29/06, Oleg Kalnichevski <ol...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 23:58 +0200, Dennis Lundberg wrote:
> > Henri Yandell wrote:
>
> > > In terms of the J***, we should we be asking infra@ what they want to do.
> >
> > If infra don't require us to use a prefix then we shouldn't use one.
> > Keep it as simple as possible, but still readable.
>
> Folks,
>
> Then I will go ahead and try to scrap the existing project and create a
> new one with JHTTPCORE as the project id. Please complain loudly if you
> have any objections to that.
Let me find out if Infra are worried about clash with prefix or not.
If not, then it'll be HTTPCORE.
Hen
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Re: Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects; WAS Re: [all]
Jira?
Posted by Oleg Kalnichevski <ol...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 23:58 +0200, Dennis Lundberg wrote:
> Henri Yandell wrote:
> > On 4/28/06, Dennis Lundberg <de...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> I think that having a naming scheme is a good idea. From a user
> >> standpoint I see no reason for keeping the project ids short (3-4
> >> characters). If Jakarta will be sharing the Jira instance with other ASF
> >> projects then using a J prefix for Jakarta project should be used, like
> >> this:
> >> - JLANG
> >> - JDIGESTER
> >> - JCOLLECTIONS
> >> - JHTTPCORE
> >
> > It does seem to be that there's more interest in the full name than
> > the shorter one.
> >
> > In terms of the J***, we should we be asking infra@ what they want to do.
>
> If infra don't require us to use a prefix then we shouldn't use one.
> Keep it as simple as possible, but still readable.
Folks,
Then I will go ahead and try to scrap the existing project and create a
new one with JHTTPCORE as the project id. Please complain loudly if you
have any objections to that.
Oleg
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Re: Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects; WAS Re: [all]
Jira?
Posted by Dennis Lundberg <de...@apache.org>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
> On 4/28/06, Dennis Lundberg <de...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> I think that having a naming scheme is a good idea. From a user
>> standpoint I see no reason for keeping the project ids short (3-4
>> characters). If Jakarta will be sharing the Jira instance with other ASF
>> projects then using a J prefix for Jakarta project should be used, like
>> this:
>> - JLANG
>> - JDIGESTER
>> - JCOLLECTIONS
>> - JHTTPCORE
>
> It does seem to be that there's more interest in the full name than
> the shorter one.
>
> In terms of the J***, we should we be asking infra@ what they want to do.
If infra don't require us to use a prefix then we shouldn't use one.
Keep it as simple as possible, but still readable.
<snip/>
> In terms of ids, obviously one for each project. Do we also want one
> for Commons in general for build and site issues? And I presume we'd
> have a sandbox project.
How about COMMONS for general commons stuff? And perhaps JAKARTA as well.
We could either use SANDBOX for all sandbox components or create one id
for each sandbox component.
--
Dennis Lundberg
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Re: Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects; WAS Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com>.
On 4/28/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip/>
>
> It does seem to be that there's more interest in the full name than
> the shorter one.
>
<snap/>
I don't think we should imply a x character limit either. Hopefully,
everyone will choose the shortest name that still makes sense.
> In terms of the J***, we should we be asking infra@ what they want to do.
>
> I don't think we should be embracing the J*** bit out of future-worry
> if they're not concerned. I can agree that a more readable code makes
> for more readable email subjects (the name is in the body of the jira
> email not the subject, so hard to filter on that); but the prefixing
> with J issue then makes it unreadable and doesn't seem necessary.
>
<snip/>
Agreed, lets not have prefixes please.
>
> In terms of ids, obviously one for each project. Do we also want one
> for Commons in general for build and site issues?
<snip/>
Yes.
> And I presume we'd
> have a sandbox project.
>
<snap/>
Yes.
Also, are we talking about migrating Commons or Jakarta to JIRA?
Finally, take my comments for what they're worth since unfortunately,
I have no cycles to contribute towards this move.
-Rahul
> Hen
>
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Re: Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects; WAS Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 4/28/06, Dennis Lundberg <de...@apache.org> wrote:
> I think that having a naming scheme is a good idea. From a user
> standpoint I see no reason for keeping the project ids short (3-4
> characters). If Jakarta will be sharing the Jira instance with other ASF
> projects then using a J prefix for Jakarta project should be used, like
> this:
> - JLANG
> - JDIGESTER
> - JCOLLECTIONS
> - JHTTPCORE
It does seem to be that there's more interest in the full name than
the shorter one.
In terms of the J***, we should we be asking infra@ what they want to do.
I don't think we should be embracing the J*** bit out of future-worry
if they're not concerned. I can agree that a more readable code makes
for more readable email subjects (the name is in the body of the jira
email not the subject, so hard to filter on that); but the prefixing
with J issue then makes it unreadable and doesn't seem necessary.
> If we can have our own Jira instance for Jakarta then the prefix can
> easily be dropped. I'm not subscribes to infra@ so I don't follow the
> discussions there.
Talked to Jeff about this. It won't be its own instance. Aim is to
keep things in the one instance. The current extra instances are
temporary until they can be sucked into the main one.
In terms of ids, obviously one for each project. Do we also want one
for Commons in general for build and site issues? And I presume we'd
have a sandbox project.
Hen
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Re: Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects; WAS Re: [all]
Jira?
Posted by Dennis Lundberg <de...@apache.org>.
Oleg Kalnichevski wrote:
> Henri Yandell wrote:
>> On 4/27/06, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Henri Yandell wrote:
>>>
>>>> Given this positive feedback so far, I'm going to email the infra@
>>>> mailing list to see how they would go about doing it _if_ we decided
>>>> we wanted to move.
>>>>
>>>> I think we should be moving from 1 project with 37 components to 37
>>>> projects - it'll allow us to manage the components individually of
>>>> each other without the kind of version overlap and general noise
>>>> issues that we currently have.
>>>>
>>> Jakarta Http Components just created their first Jira, and they got the
>>> name JHCHTTPCORE. Thus this _could_ get caught up in a debate about
>>> Jakarta and groupings.
>>>
>>
>> That's the id-code rather than the name (afaik).
>>
>> I didn't know that that was being standardised - JHCHTTPCORE is
>> terrible, sounds like a sneeze.
>>
>> Ideally we should use whatever we want, it's not a namespace to fight
>> over, just need to be unique.
>>
>>
> Henri,
>
> I also find JHCHTTPCORE absolutely horrible. I chose this id as I
> thought it would be the most "politically correct" one. I would very
> much rather prefer HTTPCORE or JHTTPCORE. Do you envisage a particular
> Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects? At this point it is
> still not too late for us to scrap the project and start over with a
> different (better) project id.
It would be a good idea to look at what the Maven community has done
with Jira. They have used Jira for some time now. They have their Jira
over at Codehaus and share the Jira instance with other projects:
http://jira.codehaus.org/secure/BrowseProjects.jspa
They have a naming scheme that prefixes all Maven 2 plugins with M. This
is followed by the plugins name. They don't use fancy acronyms which are
hard to read or remember. Some examples:
- MANT
- MJAVADOC
- MCHECKSTYLE
I think that having a naming scheme is a good idea. From a user
standpoint I see no reason for keeping the project ids short (3-4
characters). If Jakarta will be sharing the Jira instance with other ASF
projects then using a J prefix for Jakarta project should be used, like
this:
- JLANG
- JDIGESTER
- JCOLLECTIONS
- JHTTPCORE
If we can have our own Jira instance for Jakarta then the prefix can
easily be dropped. I'm not subscribes to infra@ so I don't follow the
discussions there.
As mentioned elsewhere the project id will show up in the issue-emails
that are sent to the dev-list. Having meaningful ids there helps human
filtering as well as automatic mail filters.
<snip>
--
Dennis Lundberg
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Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects; WAS Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Oleg Kalnichevski <ol...@apache.org>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
> On 4/27/06, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>
>> Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>>> Given this positive feedback so far, I'm going to email the infra@
>>> mailing list to see how they would go about doing it _if_ we decided
>>> we wanted to move.
>>>
>>> I think we should be moving from 1 project with 37 components to 37
>>> projects - it'll allow us to manage the components individually of
>>> each other without the kind of version overlap and general noise
>>> issues that we currently have.
>>>
>> Jakarta Http Components just created their first Jira, and they got the
>> name JHCHTTPCORE. Thus this _could_ get caught up in a debate about
>> Jakarta and groupings.
>>
>
> That's the id-code rather than the name (afaik).
>
> I didn't know that that was being standardised - JHCHTTPCORE is
> terrible, sounds like a sneeze.
>
> Ideally we should use whatever we want, it's not a namespace to fight
> over, just need to be unique.
>
>
Henri,
I also find JHCHTTPCORE absolutely horrible. I chose this id as I
thought it would be the most "politically correct" one. I would very
much rather prefer HTTPCORE or JHTTPCORE. Do you envisage a particular
Jira id naming convention for Jakarta projects? At this point it is
still not too late for us to scrap the project and start over with a
different (better) project id.
Oleg
>> Personally, I'd like to see each component able to move grouping within
>> Jakarta, thus we should use naming like JAKLANG or JAKARTALANG, rather
>> than JLCLANG (for Jakarta Language Components).
>>
>> We also need to be aware that about half the commons websites now have
>> links tailored to bugzilla, and these links get placed into maven built
>> distributed projects. Another bit of work to do.
>>
>
> Not sure anything can be done about that one. Do you mean the sites
> that get stuck in the zips (by maven built distributed projects) or
> something else? I suspect that every project has had a period of cold
> turkey when it moved over. Any idea Martin? Is there a .htaccess in
> the Bugzilla somehow?
>
> Hen
>
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On 4/27/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 4/27/06, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> > Henri Yandell wrote:
> > > Given this positive feedback so far, I'm going to email the infra@
> > > mailing list to see how they would go about doing it _if_ we decided
> > > we wanted to move.
> > >
> > > I think we should be moving from 1 project with 37 components to 37
> > > projects - it'll allow us to manage the components individually of
> > > each other without the kind of version overlap and general noise
> > > issues that we currently have.
> >
> > Jakarta Http Components just created their first Jira, and they got the
> > name JHCHTTPCORE. Thus this _could_ get caught up in a debate about
> > Jakarta and groupings.
>
> That's the id-code rather than the name (afaik).
>
> I didn't know that that was being standardised - JHCHTTPCORE is
> terrible, sounds like a sneeze.
>
> Ideally we should use whatever we want, it's not a namespace to fight
> over, just need to be unique.
>
> > Personally, I'd like to see each component able to move grouping within
> > Jakarta, thus we should use naming like JAKLANG or JAKARTALANG, rather
> > than JLCLANG (for Jakarta Language Components).
> >
> > We also need to be aware that about half the commons websites now have
> > links tailored to bugzilla, and these links get placed into maven built
> > distributed projects. Another bit of work to do.
>
> Not sure anything can be done about that one. Do you mean the sites
> that get stuck in the zips (by maven built distributed projects) or
> something else? I suspect that every project has had a period of cold
> turkey when it moved over. Any idea Martin? Is there a .htaccess in
> the Bugzilla somehow?
Not directly. There was some discussion on this on infra@ a while ago. ISTR
that someone (Jean Anderson, I think) was going to write something, but I've
kinda lost track of whether anything actually happened.
--
Martin Cooper
Hen
>
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 4/27/06, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> Henri Yandell wrote:
> > Given this positive feedback so far, I'm going to email the infra@
> > mailing list to see how they would go about doing it _if_ we decided
> > we wanted to move.
> >
> > I think we should be moving from 1 project with 37 components to 37
> > projects - it'll allow us to manage the components individually of
> > each other without the kind of version overlap and general noise
> > issues that we currently have.
>
> Jakarta Http Components just created their first Jira, and they got the
> name JHCHTTPCORE. Thus this _could_ get caught up in a debate about
> Jakarta and groupings.
That's the id-code rather than the name (afaik).
I didn't know that that was being standardised - JHCHTTPCORE is
terrible, sounds like a sneeze.
Ideally we should use whatever we want, it's not a namespace to fight
over, just need to be unique.
> Personally, I'd like to see each component able to move grouping within
> Jakarta, thus we should use naming like JAKLANG or JAKARTALANG, rather
> than JLCLANG (for Jakarta Language Components).
>
> We also need to be aware that about half the commons websites now have
> links tailored to bugzilla, and these links get placed into maven built
> distributed projects. Another bit of work to do.
Not sure anything can be done about that one. Do you mean the sites
that get stuck in the zips (by maven built distributed projects) or
something else? I suspect that every project has had a period of cold
turkey when it moved over. Any idea Martin? Is there a .htaccess in
the Bugzilla somehow?
Hen
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
> Given this positive feedback so far, I'm going to email the infra@
> mailing list to see how they would go about doing it _if_ we decided
> we wanted to move.
>
> I think we should be moving from 1 project with 37 components to 37
> projects - it'll allow us to manage the components individually of
> each other without the kind of version overlap and general noise
> issues that we currently have.
Jakarta Http Components just created their first Jira, and they got the
name JHCHTTPCORE. Thus this _could_ get caught up in a debate about
Jakarta and groupings.
Personally, I'd like to see each component able to move grouping within
Jakarta, thus we should use naming like JAKLANG or JAKARTALANG, rather
than JLCLANG (for Jakarta Language Components).
We also need to be aware that about half the commons websites now have
links tailored to bugzilla, and these links get placed into maven built
distributed projects. Another bit of work to do.
Stephen
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Dennis Lundberg <de...@apache.org>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
> On 4/25/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
>> Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
>
> Except for Mario's -1, things seem to be +1 so far which I must admit
> is a bit of a surprise :)
>
> Given this positive feedback so far, I'm going to email the infra@
> mailing list to see how they would go about doing it _if_ we decided
> we wanted to move.
>
> I think we should be moving from 1 project with 37 components to 37
> projects - it'll allow us to manage the components individually of
> each other without the kind of version overlap and general noise
> issues that we currently have.
+1 for that.
> We have 3,000 issues, which isn't a big deal I think, but we'd be
> wanting to add 37 new projects (and scoping to 100 let's say) which
> might be a concern, and the migration would need to be customised to
> map components to projects.
Maven uses a *lot* of projects in Jira - one for each plugin (~50 for
Maven 2) plus a bunch more for the core. That makes things manageable on
the project (=commons component) level.
Sometimes issues are moved between different plugins (=projects), so
that is possible even if we use different projects for commons. Checking
with infra seems like a good idea to get a well thought through strategy
for the migration.
>
> Hen
>
--
Dennis Lundberg
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 4/25/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
> Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
Except for Mario's -1, things seem to be +1 so far which I must admit
is a bit of a surprise :)
Given this positive feedback so far, I'm going to email the infra@
mailing list to see how they would go about doing it _if_ we decided
we wanted to move.
I think we should be moving from 1 project with 37 components to 37
projects - it'll allow us to manage the components individually of
each other without the kind of version overlap and general noise
issues that we currently have.
We have 3,000 issues, which isn't a big deal I think, but we'd be
wanting to add 37 new projects (and scoping to 100 let's say) which
might be a concern, and the migration would need to be customised to
map components to projects.
Hen
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
Big +1 on a move to jira..
Mvgr,
Martin
Henri Yandell wrote:
> I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
> Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
>
> Hen
>
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by "Brian K. Wallace" <br...@transmorphix.com>.
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Hash: SHA1
I'd be +1 on the move. I'm not one who bashes Bugzilla for its faults,
but Jira (license aside) is pretty nice to work with. [And the added
'features' that 'could' be utilized would be nice if they're used, too :-)]
Brian
Martin Cooper wrote:
> On 4/25/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
>> Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
>
>
> I used to be a -0.5 on moving to JIRA simply because it's not open source.
> However, having delved into JIRA more than a little, both on open source
> projects and in my day job, I've converted to a +1. There's a lot we could
> use it for that Bugzilla just doesn't do.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> Hen
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>>
>
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On 4/25/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
> Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
I used to be a -0.5 on moving to JIRA simply because it's not open source.
However, having delved into JIRA more than a little, both on open source
projects and in my day job, I've converted to a +1. There's a lot we could
use it for that Bugzilla just doesn't do.
--
Martin Cooper
Hen
>
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by Dennis Lundberg <de...@apache.org>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
> I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
> Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
>
> Hen
I've been using Jira a lot over in Maven land and I like it. The visual
appearance is so much more appealing than bugzilla, but its not just
skin - there's substance as well.
If all you ever do is file an issue now and then, then I agree that
there is not that much difference between Jira and Bugzilla. But when
you start to look at release management and road maps, I find Jira
superior to Bugzilla. Just look at all the Release-plans for commons
components on the wiki with hand-edited tables/lists of bugs that needs
to be solved for this and that version. This is handled quite nicely by
the built in functions in Jira.
--
Dennis Lundberg
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Re: [all] Jira?
Posted by "C. Grobmeier" <gr...@possessed.de>.
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James Carman wrote:
> I'm +1. JIRA is much more user friendly and intuitive, IMHO.
I like JIRA too. I have reported a lot of bugs for other OS projects
using JIRA, cause it's intuitive. As i saw the commons bugzilla
instance first time i was really afraid. Meanwhile i have learned how
to find what i want, but i can't say i really like this ugly thing.
For this religious things: there is a free license and commons could
benefit from a switch (and if only if guys like me report more bugs
;-)). If they sell it expensive for enterprises- ok, i have sold commons
components too (as part of my applications). As long as they do not
decide to roll back this free license i don't care.
Chris.
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Antwort: RE: [all] Jira?
Posted by an...@daimlerchrysler.com.
it looks to me like the asf already licenses/uses jira?
http://issues.apache.org/jira/
so it should only a question about how to customize the behaviour of the
working instance?
regards
engel
RE: [all] Jira?
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
I'm +1. JIRA is much more user friendly and intuitive, IMHO. I thought
that the licensing was free for truly open-source projects. Maybe that's
for more "individual" type open-source projects, though. Doesn't ASF
qualify for one of their "Non-Profit & Open Source Licenses"?
-----Original Message-----
From: Henri Yandell [mailto:flamefew@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:46 AM
To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
Subject: [all] Jira?
I know Jelly are on Jira already, and Struts have just moved over to
Jira. Wondering what the view is nowadays on Commons moving to Jira?
Hen
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