Code of Conduct and enforcement on @diversity.a.o lists

[Myrle Krantz <my...@apache.org>]

Hey all,

We have had a couple of incidents now of what can be interpreted as
misbehavior.  There has been room for interpretation as to whether it
actually was misbehavior.  There will almost always *be* room for
interpretation.  Sometimes this will be by design, and sometimes it will be
accidental.

We are approaching an emotional topic, and we can expect people to feel and
express anger, disappointment, frustration, confusion, and more.  But we
also hope to talk to and convince people who are afraid, hurt, sad,
jealous, and more.  The latter is true both for people who we've had
trouble including in our communities, and among those community members who
may not see the need for diversity and inclusion work.

We need to talk about what are acceptable ways to express our feelings on
our lists, and we need to find ways to talk about it when our boundaries
are crossed or when we believe others are being mistreated.  We need to be
able to do this without limiting our ability to approach difficult topics
and exchange unpopular opinions and unpleasant facts.

Social contracts without consequences cannot succeed.  So we will also need
to talk about what consequences we wish to apply when a participant
repeatedly and willfully crosses boundaries.  We need some of those
consequences to be low-key, and even loving, because otherwise we will
hesitate to apply them until a conversation has already left the rails.
But we also need at least one tool in our toolbox for removing the
(vanishingly rare) "true villain" who wants us to fail, and is actively
working to undermine us.

I believe we will need different standards for our different lists
(private@diversity, dev@diversity, diversity@).  On diversity@ I'm willing
to be very tolerant, because it is a sort of "user" list.  On private@ I
expect us to keep traffic as low as possible, regardless of content.  So
what I'm most interested in talking about right now is CoC and enforcement
specifically on our working list: dev@diversity.  But our other lists will
come up in this conversation too.

Best Regards,
Myrle

1.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory
2.) "When hawks give rise to doves: The evolution and transition of
enforcement strategies"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3675804/
3.) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-38323-7

Re: Code of Conduct and enforcement on @diversity.a.o lists

[Andrew Musselman <ak...@apache.org>]

Here's the ASF code as a starting point:
https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html

Was the nature of these incidents covered by that?

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 06:02 Myrle Krantz <my...@apache.org> wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> We have had a couple of incidents now of what can be interpreted as
> misbehavior.  There has been room for interpretation as to whether it
> actually was misbehavior.  There will almost always *be* room for
> interpretation.  Sometimes this will be by design, and sometimes it will be
> accidental.
>
> We are approaching an emotional topic, and we can expect people to feel and
> express anger, disappointment, frustration, confusion, and more.  But we
> also hope to talk to and convince people who are afraid, hurt, sad,
> jealous, and more.  The latter is true both for people who we've had
> trouble including in our communities, and among those community members who
> may not see the need for diversity and inclusion work.
>
> We need to talk about what are acceptable ways to express our feelings on
> our lists, and we need to find ways to talk about it when our boundaries
> are crossed or when we believe others are being mistreated.  We need to be
> able to do this without limiting our ability to approach difficult topics
> and exchange unpopular opinions and unpleasant facts.
>
> Social contracts without consequences cannot succeed.  So we will also need
> to talk about what consequences we wish to apply when a participant
> repeatedly and willfully crosses boundaries.  We need some of those
> consequences to be low-key, and even loving, because otherwise we will
> hesitate to apply them until a conversation has already left the rails.
> But we also need at least one tool in our toolbox for removing the
> (vanishingly rare) "true villain" who wants us to fail, and is actively
> working to undermine us.
>
> I believe we will need different standards for our different lists
> (private@diversity, dev@diversity, diversity@).  On diversity@ I'm willing
> to be very tolerant, because it is a sort of "user" list.  On private@ I
> expect us to keep traffic as low as possible, regardless of content.  So
> what I'm most interested in talking about right now is CoC and enforcement
> specifically on our working list: dev@diversity.  But our other lists will
> come up in this conversation too.
>
> Best Regards,
> Myrle
>
> 1.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory
> 2.) "When hawks give rise to doves: The evolution and transition of
> enforcement strategies"
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3675804/
> 3.) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-38323-7
>

Re: Code of Conduct and enforcement on @diversity.a.o lists

[Naomi S <no...@tumbolia.org>]

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 15:25, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:

>
> I'd like to request that we not contemplate taking any action
> retroactively.  I share Myrle's desire that this list be a place where
> we can "exchange unpopular opinions and unpleasant facts." and the
> conclusion that that requires a social contract.  Let's figure out
> what that social contract is, and then consistently apply it going
> forward.


agreed. but I would also like to request that people call out behavior they
find unacceptable as and when it happens. doing so can be an effective way
to improve things. we should ratify this stuff, but we don't need to do
that to start communicating our individual expectations

Re: Code of Conduct and enforcement on @diversity.a.o lists

[Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>]

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 9:02 AM Myrle Krantz <my...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> But we also need at least one tool in our toolbox for removing the
> (vanishingly rare) "true villain" who wants us to fail, and is actively
> working to undermine us.

Infrastructure has tools to effectively block an individual from
participating.  And we have deployed them once in the past (I won't
share the details on a public list).  It is not a simple matter of
flipping a switch, I will estimate that it will cost up to a labor
week of infra effort to make this happen, perhaps less if it only is a
single or small number of lists.

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 9:10 AM Kevin A. McGrail <km...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 6/27/2019 9:01 AM, Myrle Krantz wrote:
> > We have had a couple of incidents now of what can be interpreted as
> > misbehavior.
>
> Do we?  Please be specific what they are.

I'd like to request that we not contemplate taking any action
retroactively.  I share Myrle's desire that this list be a place where
we can "exchange unpopular opinions and unpleasant facts." and the
conclusion that that requires a social contract.  Let's figure out
what that social contract is, and then consistently apply it going
forward.

- Sam Ruby

Re: Code of Conduct and enforcement on @diversity.a.o lists

["Kevin A. McGrail" <km...@apache.org>]

On 6/27/2019 9:01 AM, Myrle Krantz wrote:
> We have had a couple of incidents now of what can be interpreted as
> misbehavior.

Do we?  Please be specific what they are.

-- 
Kevin A. McGrail
Member, Apache Software Foundation
Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171