RE: JSP vs. ASP

[Randy Layman <ra...@aswethink.com>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Järkeborn Joacim [mailto:joacim.jarkeborn@consultant.volvo.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 7:55 AM
> To: 'tomcat-user@jakarta.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: JSP vs. ASP
> 
> 
> Some differences:
> 
> A ASP page is compiled into memory (every time it's accessed I think)

This is true for ASP, but not ASPX (the .Net version).


	I think that the biggest difference is in how they interact with
external objects - generally the business portion of your application.

	In Java you use beans (basically just classes) that implement the
stuff in your application.  These are written in Java and can do whatever
Java can do.

	In ASP you use COM objects.  These objects are written in more ASP,
VB, VC++ (and C# for .Net).  Objects in ASP can't do a whole lot so they're
not all that useful.  VB has threading issues and Microsoft recommends not
using VB COM objects with IIS because of it (this might have changed with
.Net - I haven't been able to check either way).  So, for a good ASP
application you need to write the COM objects in C++, which gives you all of
your old headaches about memory management, etc.  Also these COM objects are
implemented as DLLs with need to be in the Windows directory (for non-.Net)
or in the IIS bin directory (for .Net).  In either case you can have only
version of the object at a time, making multiple web applications using the
same objects but different versions impossible.  (There are also other
implications that cause problems.)

	The downside for Java is its speed.  Its still an interpreted
language.  However, with Microsoft making the CLI, ASP/C++/C# is now also
interpreted, so the gap is closing.

	I've tried several different times to come up with an upside to ASP
while writing this message, but none come to me.  Microsoft solutions are
generally cheaper than EJB for initial outlay, there are more MS admins
(IIS) out there than Tomcat/Resin/JRun/whatever servlet container.  However,
both are dubious signs - Microsoft solutions haven't been proven to have a
lower Total Cost of Ownership (TCO), but they haven't really been proven to
have a higher one either.  Also, the fact that there are more certified
admins might be an indicator that MS solutions need more care and feeding
than the corresponding Servlet solution, again I haven't seen any proof
either way.

	These are just my thoughts and no one's official opinion.

	Randy

Re: JSP vs. ASP

[Pae Choi <pa...@earthlink.net>]

Folks,

I enjoyed watching and learning this conversational thread. I just want to
learn a little more about the "only verision". Can someone explain a little
more what this only version impling? Thanks


Pae

> Hi !
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Layman" <ra...@aswethink.com>
> To: <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 12:42 PM
> Subject: RE: JSP vs. ASP
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Järkeborn Joacim [mailto:joacim.jarkeborn@consultant.volvo.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 7:55 AM
> > > To: 'tomcat-user@jakarta.apache.org'
> > > Subject: RE: JSP vs. ASP
> > >
> > >
> > > Some differences:
> > >
> > > A ASP page is compiled into memory (every time it's accessed I think)
> >
> > This is true for ASP, but not ASPX (the .Net version).
> >
> >
> > I think that the biggest difference is in how they interact with
> > external objects - generally the business portion of your application.
> >
> > In Java you use beans (basically just classes) that implement the
> > stuff in your application.  These are written in Java and can do whatever
> > Java can do.
> >
> > In ASP you use COM objects.  These objects are written in more ASP,
> > VB, VC++ (and C# for .Net).  Objects in ASP can't do a whole lot so
> they're
> > not all that useful.  VB has threading issues and Microsoft recommends not
> > using VB COM objects with IIS because of it (this might have changed with
> > .Net - I haven't been able to check either way).
> 
> 
> They (MS) claim to have fixed this in VB.NET.....
> 
> 
> > So, for a good ASP
> > application you need to write the COM objects in C++, which gives you all
> of
> > your old headaches about memory management, etc.  Also these COM objects
> are
> > implemented as DLLs with need to be in the Windows directory (for
> non-.Net)
> > or in the IIS bin directory (for .Net).  In either case you can have only
> > version of the object at a time, making multiple web applications using
> the
> > same objects but different versions impossible.  (There are also other
> > implications that cause problems.)
> >
> 
> 
> They also claim to have fixed this, they have support for multiple .dlls
> with different versions, but it only works on XP (I think), and it's a
> pretty ugly solution if I understand it all correct (which I might not do of
> course, I often have problems figuring out what MS is trying to do ;o)
> 
> 
> > The downside for Java is its speed.  Its still an interpreted
> > language.  However, with Microsoft making the CLI, ASP/C++/C# is now also
> > interpreted, so the gap is closing.
> >
> > I've tried several different times to come up with an upside to ASP
> > while writing this message, but none come to me.  Microsoft solutions are
> > generally cheaper than EJB for initial outlay, there are more MS admins
> > (IIS) out there than Tomcat/Resin/JRun/whatever servlet container.
> However,
> > both are dubious signs - Microsoft solutions haven't been proven to have a
> > lower Total Cost of Ownership (TCO), but they haven't really been proven
> to
> > have a higher one either.  Also, the fact that there are more certified
> > admins might be an indicator that MS solutions need more care and feeding
> > than the corresponding Servlet solution, again I haven't seen any proof
> > either way.
> >
> > These are just my thoughts and no one's official opinion.
> >
> > Randy
> 

Re: JSP vs. ASP

[Mikael Aronsson <mi...@telia.com>]

Hi !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Layman" <ra...@aswethink.com>
To: <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: JSP vs. ASP


>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Järkeborn Joacim [mailto:joacim.jarkeborn@consultant.volvo.com]
> > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 7:55 AM
> > To: 'tomcat-user@jakarta.apache.org'
> > Subject: RE: JSP vs. ASP
> >
> >
> > Some differences:
> >
> > A ASP page is compiled into memory (every time it's accessed I think)
>
> This is true for ASP, but not ASPX (the .Net version).
>
>
> I think that the biggest difference is in how they interact with
> external objects - generally the business portion of your application.
>
> In Java you use beans (basically just classes) that implement the
> stuff in your application.  These are written in Java and can do whatever
> Java can do.
>
> In ASP you use COM objects.  These objects are written in more ASP,
> VB, VC++ (and C# for .Net).  Objects in ASP can't do a whole lot so
they're
> not all that useful.  VB has threading issues and Microsoft recommends not
> using VB COM objects with IIS because of it (this might have changed with
> .Net - I haven't been able to check either way).


They (MS) claim to have fixed this in VB.NET.....


> So, for a good ASP
> application you need to write the COM objects in C++, which gives you all
of
> your old headaches about memory management, etc.  Also these COM objects
are
> implemented as DLLs with need to be in the Windows directory (for
non-.Net)
> or in the IIS bin directory (for .Net).  In either case you can have only
> version of the object at a time, making multiple web applications using
the
> same objects but different versions impossible.  (There are also other
> implications that cause problems.)
>


They also claim to have fixed this, they have support for multiple .dlls
with different versions, but it only works on XP (I think), and it's a
pretty ugly solution if I understand it all correct (which I might not do of
course, I often have problems figuring out what MS is trying to do ;o)


> The downside for Java is its speed.  Its still an interpreted
> language.  However, with Microsoft making the CLI, ASP/C++/C# is now also
> interpreted, so the gap is closing.
>
> I've tried several different times to come up with an upside to ASP
> while writing this message, but none come to me.  Microsoft solutions are
> generally cheaper than EJB for initial outlay, there are more MS admins
> (IIS) out there than Tomcat/Resin/JRun/whatever servlet container.
However,
> both are dubious signs - Microsoft solutions haven't been proven to have a
> lower Total Cost of Ownership (TCO), but they haven't really been proven
to
> have a higher one either.  Also, the fact that there are more certified
> admins might be an indicator that MS solutions need more care and feeding
> than the corresponding Servlet solution, again I haven't seen any proof
> either way.
>
> These are just my thoughts and no one's official opinion.
>
> Randy