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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Edison Su <Ed...@citrix.com> on 2012/06/21 00:41:39 UTC
CloudStack Chinese user mailing list
Glad to announce that CloudStack Chinese user mailing list is created, just few minutes ago.
To subscribe: please send email to cloudstack-users-cn-subscribe@incubator.apache.org.
BTW, it's Mandarin only though, maybe a little bit Cantonese is OK...:)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Nalley [mailto:david@gnsa.us]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:45 PM
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Can we use other language here?
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
> wrote:
> >>> On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today,
> can we
> >>>>> use Chinese in the mailling list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling
> list,
> >>>>> and all language should be equal.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot
> guy
> >>>>> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any thoughts?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> If this is needed then we should have a language specific list.
> However,
> >>>> from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
> >>>> collaboration.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese
> developer
> >>> list.
> >>>
> >>> My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to
> keep
> >>> collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either,
> but it
> >>> seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
> >>>
> >>> As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due
> to the
> >>> huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese
> development
> >>> list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
> >>>
> >>> Wido
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> My $0.02
> >>>> Robert
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Generally a project uses a single language for development purposes
> >> and while there is no technical barrier, splitting up the developer
> >> community by language seems more deleterious than beneficial.
> >>
> >> This is further complicated by the fact that decisions have to be
> made
> >> on the mailing list - which then begs the question - where can
> binding
> >> decisions be made? In Apache projects that is supposed to happen on
> >> the -dev list. However with two -dev lists that becomes a bit more
> >> difficult.
> >>
> >> So my personal take on the matter:
> >> We have a number of developers for whom English is not their native
> >> tongue - but it remains a common tongue for us. I'd certainly have
> no
> >> objection to language-specific user mailing lists. But missing
> entire
> >> development conversations, strikes me as a bad thing.
> >>
> >> Thoughts, comments, flames?
> >
> > Agree. There should be no knowledge barrier between developers.
> >
> > And I am quite believe in English education in China. Again, don't
> > worry about grammar or misspell etc.
> >
> > And localized user mailing is necessary I think.
> >
> > --Sheng
> >>
> >> --David
>
> Sheng, or Edison - feel free to create a ticket for INFRA at
> issues.apache.org to create a Chinese language user mailing list.
>
> --David
Re: CloudStack Chinese user mailing list
Posted by Chris Custine <ch...@gmail.com>.
There is some precedent for non-english user lists, but the only ones I am aware of are un-official lists hosted on google groups, etc. (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/cxf-zh) for example. I'm not 100% certain that a non-english list hosted by apache is officially sanctioned, so I will defer that to the project mentors or anyone from @infra monitoring the list.
Either way, I would simply caution that any discussions on a user list that begin to involve anything more than trivial bug fixes for a user issue should be moved to the dev list. This is actually something that we must do from time to time on any of the other project mailing lists as well.
--
Chris Custine
On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Edison Su wrote:
> Glad to announce that CloudStack Chinese user mailing list is created, just few minutes ago.
> To subscribe: please send email to cloudstack-users-cn-subscribe@incubator.apache.org (mailto:cloudstack-users-cn-subscribe@incubator.apache.org).
> BTW, it's Mandarin only though, maybe a little bit Cantonese is OK...:)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Nalley [mailto:david@gnsa.us]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:45 PM
> > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org (mailto:cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org)
> > Subject: Re: Can we use other language here?
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Sheng Yang <sheng@yasker.org (mailto:sheng@yasker.org)> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us (mailto:david@gnsa.us)> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Wido den Hollander <wido@widodh.nl (mailto:wido@widodh.nl)>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today,
> > can we
> > > > > > > use Chinese in the mailling list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling
> > list,
> > > > > > > and all language should be equal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot
> > guy
> > > > > > > from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any thoughts?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If this is needed then we should have a language specific list.
> > However,
> > > > > > from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
> > > > > > collaboration.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese
> > developer
> > > > > list.
> > > > >
> > > > > My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to
> > keep
> > > > > collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either,
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > but it
> > > > > seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due
> > to the
> > > > > huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > development
> > > > > list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wido
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My $0.02
> > > > > > Robert
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Generally a project uses a single language for development purposes
> > > > and while there is no technical barrier, splitting up the developer
> > > > community by language seems more deleterious than beneficial.
> > > >
> > > > This is further complicated by the fact that decisions have to be
> > made
> > > > on the mailing list - which then begs the question - where can
> > >
> >
> > binding
> > > > decisions be made? In Apache projects that is supposed to happen on
> > > > the -dev list. However with two -dev lists that becomes a bit more
> > > > difficult.
> > > >
> > > > So my personal take on the matter:
> > > > We have a number of developers for whom English is not their native
> > > > tongue - but it remains a common tongue for us. I'd certainly have
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > no
> > > > objection to language-specific user mailing lists. But missing
> > >
> >
> > entire
> > > > development conversations, strikes me as a bad thing.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts, comments, flames?
> > >
> > > Agree. There should be no knowledge barrier between developers.
> > >
> > > And I am quite believe in English education in China. Again, don't
> > > worry about grammar or misspell etc.
> > >
> > > And localized user mailing is necessary I think.
> > >
> > > --Sheng
> > > >
> > > > --David
> >
> > Sheng, or Edison - feel free to create a ticket for INFRA at
> > issues.apache.org (http://issues.apache.org) to create a Chinese language user mailing list.
> >
> > --David
Re: CloudStack Chinese user mailing list
Posted by Chris Custine <ch...@gmail.com>.
There is some precedent for non-english user lists, but the only ones I am aware of are un-official lists hosted on google groups, etc. (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/cxf-zh) for example. I'm not 100% certain that a non-english list hosted by apache is officially sanctioned, so I will defer that to the project mentors or anyone from @infra monitoring the list.
Either way, I would simply caution that any discussions on a user list that begin to involve anything more than trivial bug fixes for a user issue should be moved to the dev list. This is actually something that we must do from time to time on any of the other project mailing lists as well.
--
Chris Custine
On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Edison Su wrote:
> Glad to announce that CloudStack Chinese user mailing list is created, just few minutes ago.
> To subscribe: please send email to cloudstack-users-cn-subscribe@incubator.apache.org (mailto:cloudstack-users-cn-subscribe@incubator.apache.org).
> BTW, it's Mandarin only though, maybe a little bit Cantonese is OK...:)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Nalley [mailto:david@gnsa.us]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:45 PM
> > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org (mailto:cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org)
> > Subject: Re: Can we use other language here?
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Sheng Yang <sheng@yasker.org (mailto:sheng@yasker.org)> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us (mailto:david@gnsa.us)> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Wido den Hollander <wido@widodh.nl (mailto:wido@widodh.nl)>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today,
> > can we
> > > > > > > use Chinese in the mailling list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling
> > list,
> > > > > > > and all language should be equal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot
> > guy
> > > > > > > from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any thoughts?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If this is needed then we should have a language specific list.
> > However,
> > > > > > from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
> > > > > > collaboration.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese
> > developer
> > > > > list.
> > > > >
> > > > > My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to
> > keep
> > > > > collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either,
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > but it
> > > > > seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due
> > to the
> > > > > huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > development
> > > > > list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wido
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My $0.02
> > > > > > Robert
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Generally a project uses a single language for development purposes
> > > > and while there is no technical barrier, splitting up the developer
> > > > community by language seems more deleterious than beneficial.
> > > >
> > > > This is further complicated by the fact that decisions have to be
> > made
> > > > on the mailing list - which then begs the question - where can
> > >
> >
> > binding
> > > > decisions be made? In Apache projects that is supposed to happen on
> > > > the -dev list. However with two -dev lists that becomes a bit more
> > > > difficult.
> > > >
> > > > So my personal take on the matter:
> > > > We have a number of developers for whom English is not their native
> > > > tongue - but it remains a common tongue for us. I'd certainly have
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > no
> > > > objection to language-specific user mailing lists. But missing
> > >
> >
> > entire
> > > > development conversations, strikes me as a bad thing.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts, comments, flames?
> > >
> > > Agree. There should be no knowledge barrier between developers.
> > >
> > > And I am quite believe in English education in China. Again, don't
> > > worry about grammar or misspell etc.
> > >
> > > And localized user mailing is necessary I think.
> > >
> > > --Sheng
> > > >
> > > > --David
> >
> > Sheng, or Edison - feel free to create a ticket for INFRA at
> > issues.apache.org (http://issues.apache.org) to create a Chinese language user mailing list.
> >
> > --David