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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> on 2010/10/11 18:49:13 UTC
Should Tapestry phone home?
This came up during my training class this week.
What would be the repercussions if Tapestry included a start-up filter
that "reported" the application startup back to some central location,
so that we could get some idea of where and how Tapestry is being
used? Obviously, this would be documented, in such a way that it
would be easy to turn off for the privacy-minded.
It would be interesting to know how many apps are running in the wild,
and details about how many pages & components & services, JVM
version, and OS and hardware configuration.
Asking people to do this manually is a non-starter, I'm constantly
surprised by people telling me they are using Tapestry in visible
places.
Thoughts?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Alessio Gambi <ag...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Monitoring/statistics
To: Tapestry users <us...@tapestry.apache.org>
Hi,
Please think also about some way to obtain (meta) statistics about
Tapestry itself. Something that can be used to track how many people
are actually using tapestry as platform for their applications.
-- Alessio
On 11-ott-2010, at 18:05, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been thinking about this kind of thing as well; having a JMX bean
> for each Page instance and tracking number of render requests, number
> of event requests, number of ajax even requests, and ellapsed
> processing time for each.
>
> Obviously, it's a bit late for 5.2 ... it may be time to cut a 5.3 dev
> branch off the current 5.2 code base.
>
> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Josh Canfield <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm thinking about rolling my own generic monitoring/statistics solution for
>> tapestry 5 and I figured I should see if something is out there already
>> before I spent too much time on it.
>>
>> This is to be used in production and connected to an external monitoring
>> system, probably via JMX, but we might be flexible.
>>
>> Anything come to mind?
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
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>
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--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:46:29 -0300, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> So, Alessio had a good idea ... some way of finding out who is using
> Tapestry that doesn't rely on the user doing anything manually ...
> what would be a better way to approach this?
What about the generator meta tag Tapestry uses by default? Is there
anything that provides searches based in meta tags?
Cheers!
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Alessio Gambi <ag...@gmail.com>.
On 11-ott-2010, at 20:52, Chris Pall <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And no, it should not phone home - it should be invoked.
Ok. I see all your points:
- something already there but not automatic
- not about the application nor the usage data
- yes the version of the framework
- some feedback/news/hint/added-value
We have a set of requirements.Now we can start to sketch a solution
My proposal is something like a component deployed in the example application directly on the index page with a simple form, and a field for comments if you want to type something in it (and of course an hidden field with the version number).
It's already there, you can inspect the code to see it's not steeling your precious data, you can cheat if you want, it is simple as clicking a button, as a feedback it will show a customized data about your locale and version.
Then you can provide a counter/page on the official web site that shows the results of this in terms of counting how many submits you got.
It looks fair as a donate button ;)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Chris Pall <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You probably would get much better compliance if you were giving them
>> something back - if you're giving them a tool that lets them know hey --
>> there is a bugfix for your version.
>>
>>
>> --cgp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> So, Alessio had a good idea ... some way of finding out who is using
>>> Tapestry that doesn't rely on the user doing anything manually ...
>>> what would be a better way to approach this?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>>> <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko
>>>> <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it.
>>>>
>>>> Agreed.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>>>> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
>>> and
>>>> instructor
>>>> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
>>>> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>>
>>> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>>>
>>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
>>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>>>
>>> (971) 678-5210
>>> http://howardlewisship.com
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Chris Pall <ch...@gmail.com>.
And no, it should not phone home - it should be invoked.
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Chris Pall <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You probably would get much better compliance if you were giving them
> something back - if you're giving them a tool that lets them know hey --
> there is a bugfix for your version.
>
>
> --cgp
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> So, Alessio had a good idea ... some way of finding out who is using
>> Tapestry that doesn't rely on the user doing anything manually ...
>> what would be a better way to approach this?
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>> <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko
>> > <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it.
>> >
>> > Agreed.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>> > Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
>> and
>> > instructor
>> > Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
>> > http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>
>> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>>
>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>>
>> (971) 678-5210
>> http://howardlewisship.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:50:03 -0300, Chris Pall <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You probably would get much better compliance if you were giving them
> something back - if you're giving them a tool that lets them know hey --
> there is a bugfix for your version.
EHCache does exactly that.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Chris Pall <ch...@gmail.com>.
You probably would get much better compliance if you were giving them
something back - if you're giving them a tool that lets them know hey --
there is a bugfix for your version.
--cgp
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, Alessio had a good idea ... some way of finding out who is using
> Tapestry that doesn't rely on the user doing anything manually ...
> what would be a better way to approach this?
>
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko
> > <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it.
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> > --
> > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> > Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
> and
> > instructor
> > Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> > http://www.arsmachina.com.br
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
So, Alessio had a good idea ... some way of finding out who is using
Tapestry that doesn't rely on the user doing anything manually ...
what would be a better way to approach this?
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
<th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko
> <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it.
>
> Agreed.
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and
> instructor
> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Alessio Gambi <ag...@gmail.com>.
On Oct 12, 2010, at 5:10 PM, Igor Drobiazko wrote:
> We should not forget that some companies have policies which forbbid
> to
> provide any details on used technologies. These companies will be
> pissed of
> if they are mentioned on any statistics.
This is clear to everybody, that's the why we explicitly said: it must
be on a volunteer basis.
Anyway, here we need to make a distinction between on one side the
tools to obtain the statistics (something that your company will
appreciate ...)
and the kind of data (this is related to the first thread by Josh),
and, on the other side, the communication of some the result to the
community (for example, Tapestry users ++, no name, no version, no
sensitive information).
Assuming that there is the will to help the community,
what would be a suitable tool to realize that ?
Note that a metric on the diffusion of Tapestry should count also all
the (hopefully) thousand developers that actually use it,
not only big (medium) companies; for those, I guess there's no
problem in
communicating any of the statistics that can be used on the Tapestry
side to improve it.
For "big" companies, there is a special page to register to on the
official site (if they want to), but apparently they do not account so
much for the community needs
-- Alessio
Ps: if companies are scared of competitors knowing that they are using
Tapestry, they should know that someone can more or less easily "spot"
this fact just looking at the source code of their pages.
>
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Christophe Cordenier <
> christophe.cordenier@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It's dynamic, you will have tags, most popular, most downloaded, ...
>> That makes contribution process alive
>>
>> 2010/10/12 Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>:
>>> And what exactly is the benefit over a wiki page where a user may
>> register
>>> their project (which we already have)?
>>>
>>> On 12.10.2010 15:02, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:39:03 -0300, Christophe Cordenier
>>>> <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My two cents, new web site will be coming soon (I hope so) why not
>>>>> having a small dynamic application for multiple types of
>>>>> registration
>>>>> (third-party contributions, Tapestry users (in production) ...)
>>>>
>>>> I think this is exactly the approach we should use.
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Christophe Cordenier.
>>
>> Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
>> Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Igor Drobiazko
> http://tapestry5.de
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Igor Drobiazko <ig...@gmail.com>.
We should not forget that some companies have policies which forbbid to
provide any details on used technologies. These companies will be pissed of
if they are mentioned on any statistics.
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Christophe Cordenier <
christophe.cordenier@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's dynamic, you will have tags, most popular, most downloaded, ...
> That makes contribution process alive
>
> 2010/10/12 Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>:
> > And what exactly is the benefit over a wiki page where a user may
> register
> > their project (which we already have)?
> >
> > On 12.10.2010 15:02, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:39:03 -0300, Christophe Cordenier
> >> <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> My two cents, new web site will be coming soon (I hope so) why not
> >>> having a small dynamic application for multiple types of registration
> >>> (third-party contributions, Tapestry users (in production) ...)
> >>
> >> I think this is exactly the approach we should use.
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Christophe Cordenier.
>
> Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
> Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Best regards,
Igor Drobiazko
http://tapestry5.de
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com>.
It's dynamic, you will have tags, most popular, most downloaded, ...
That makes contribution process alive
2010/10/12 Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>:
> And what exactly is the benefit over a wiki page where a user may register
> their project (which we already have)?
>
> On 12.10.2010 15:02, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:39:03 -0300, Christophe Cordenier
>> <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> My two cents, new web site will be coming soon (I hope so) why not
>>> having a small dynamic application for multiple types of registration
>>> (third-party contributions, Tapestry users (in production) ...)
>>
>> I think this is exactly the approach we should use.
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Regards,
Christophe Cordenier.
Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
And what exactly is the benefit over a wiki page where a user may register their project (which we
already have)?
On 12.10.2010 15:02, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:39:03 -0300, Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My two cents, new web site will be coming soon (I hope so) why not
>> having a small dynamic application for multiple types of registration
>> (third-party contributions, Tapestry users (in production) ...)
>
> I think this is exactly the approach we should use.
>
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:39:03 -0300, Christophe Cordenier
<ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My two cents, new web site will be coming soon (I hope so) why not
> having a small dynamic application for multiple types of registration
> (third-party contributions, Tapestry users (in production) ...)
I think this is exactly the approach we should use.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com>.
My two cents, new web site will be coming soon (I hope so) why not
having a small dynamic application for multiple types of registration
(third-party contributions, Tapestry users (in production) ...)
Christophe.
2010/10/12 Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>:
> Exactly. I can envision a lot of pissed of users (myself included). PR disaster and people walking away from the framework is probably what will happen.
>
> The voluntary registration idea floated in this thread is much more honest. Not sure how to implement it in the context of Tapestry though.
>
> Andrus
>
> On Oct 11, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it.
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> --
>> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor
>> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
>> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Regards,
Christophe Cordenier.
Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
Exactly. I can envision a lot of pissed of users (myself included). PR disaster and people walking away from the framework is probably what will happen.
The voluntary registration idea floated in this thread is much more honest. Not sure how to implement it in the context of Tapestry though.
Andrus
On Oct 11, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it.
>
> Agreed.
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor
> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Norman Franke <no...@myasd.com>.
Another good reason to not do this is if the server that was being
reported to dies or malfunctions, it could prevent startup or
otherwise cause problems. I've had similar problems with the XML
libraries doing validation to DTDs that don't exist anymore due to
domain name registration issues.
Norman Franke
Answering Service for Directors, Inc.
www.myasd.com
On Oct 11, 2010, at 2:27 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko <igor.drobiazko@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it.
>
> Agreed.
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant,
> developer, and instructor
> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko
<ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it.
Agreed.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Igor Drobiazko <ig...@gmail.com>.
We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it.
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This came up during my training class this week.
>
> What would be the repercussions if Tapestry included a start-up filter
> that "reported" the application startup back to some central location,
> so that we could get some idea of where and how Tapestry is being
> used? Obviously, this would be documented, in such a way that it
> would be easy to turn off for the privacy-minded.
>
> It would be interesting to know how many apps are running in the wild,
> and details about how many pages & components & services, JVM
> version, and OS and hardware configuration.
>
> Asking people to do this manually is a non-starter, I'm constantly
> surprised by people telling me they are using Tapestry in visible
> places.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Alessio Gambi <ag...@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Monitoring/statistics
> To: Tapestry users <us...@tapestry.apache.org>
>
>
> Hi,
> Please think also about some way to obtain (meta) statistics about
> Tapestry itself. Something that can be used to track how many people
> are actually using tapestry as platform for their applications.
>
> -- Alessio
>
> On 11-ott-2010, at 18:05, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've been thinking about this kind of thing as well; having a JMX bean
> > for each Page instance and tracking number of render requests, number
> > of event requests, number of ajax even requests, and ellapsed
> > processing time for each.
> >
> > Obviously, it's a bit late for 5.2 ... it may be time to cut a 5.3 dev
> > branch off the current 5.2 code base.
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Josh Canfield <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> I'm thinking about rolling my own generic monitoring/statistics solution
> for
> >> tapestry 5 and I figured I should see if something is out there already
> >> before I spent too much time on it.
> >>
> >> This is to be used in production and connected to an external monitoring
> >> system, probably via JMX, but we might be flexible.
> >>
> >> Anything come to mind?
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> >
> > Creator of Apache Tapestry
> >
> > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> > learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
> >
> > (971) 678-5210
> > http://howardlewisship.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Best regards,
Igor Drobiazko
http://tapestry5.de
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by "Vangel V. Ajanovski" <aj...@ii.edu.mk>.
> It would be interesting to know how many apps are running in the wild,
> and details about how many pages & components & services, JVM
> version, and OS and hardware configuration.
Moodle (the learning management system) is a complete system not a
framework and what they do have is a "register my moodle instance"
button. This button is visible from the very first login as an admin
into the system - and of course you have to login as an admin to set it
all up. When you decide that you like to register, it allows you to
choose a public name for your installation, whether to send the url,
what is a contact address etc etc. This has enabled Moodle to be aware
of the thousands implementations of the system and inform them of
critical patches sometimes even before a public announcements.
I see a way how this can be done with Tapestry - by creating an admin
component where you would set-up some configuration data (which then
might be stored in configuration files or configuration database). This
component could have options to setup resource path filtering, aliases,
production mode, hibernate configuration data... and also a button to
"phone home" - but only once to register your instance in some
registration database with option to be informed when new versions come
out or when new security patches come out.
Tapestry could monitor itself and for example this register button could
pop out if something is drastically different than before - much longer
start up time, new version of some included library, etc.
It should be easy to use if you want, just a single dependency in maven.
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Alessio Gambi <ag...@gmail.com>.
Hi
I think that if put in the right 'shape' and on volunteer basis it can work pretty well. Maybe a filter is bit intrusive ... But eclipse for example does the same, still people use it. In a similar way all the softwares (especially when they fail) have a way to call home.
Something like a donate button, where you give some aggregated infos about how you use tapestry and not what you use it for.
On 11-ott-2010, at 18:57, Daniel Jue <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think this is a good idea. I understand that it would satisfy
> a lot of curiosity.
I do not think this is just about curiosity; this is about (real) numbers
on the actual impact of tapestry, its geographical distribution, and in a more general way also improvement (not just bug fixes)
> There would have to be value-add for the end user, such as
> checking for a newer version, etc.
In fact there will.
More visibility means more people involved, more people involved means more interest, effort and investments. Thus if you already are a kind of tapestry guru then your market value will increase.
Then more data means more focused analyses and tests, and in the end a better framework.
>
> Is there precedent for this in other Apache projects?
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This came up during my training class this week.
>>
>> What would be the repercussions if Tapestry included a start-up filter
>> that "reported" the application startup back to some central location,
>> so that we could get some idea of where and how Tapestry is being
>> used? Obviously, this would be documented, in such a way that it
>> would be easy to turn off for the privacy-minded.
>>
>> It would be interesting to know how many apps are running in the wild,
>> and details about how many pages & components & services, JVM
>> version, and OS and hardware configuration.
>>
>> Asking people to do this manually is a non-starter, I'm constantly
>> surprised by people telling me they are using Tapestry in visible
>> places.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Alessio Gambi <ag...@gmail.com>
>> Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: Monitoring/statistics
>> To: Tapestry users <us...@tapestry.apache.org>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> Please think also about some way to obtain (meta) statistics about
>> Tapestry itself. Something that can be used to track how many people
>> are actually using tapestry as platform for their applications.
>>
>> -- Alessio
>>
>> On 11-ott-2010, at 18:05, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been thinking about this kind of thing as well; having a JMX bean
>>> for each Page instance and tracking number of render requests, number
>>> of event requests, number of ajax even requests, and ellapsed
>>> processing time for each.
>>>
>>> Obviously, it's a bit late for 5.2 ... it may be time to cut a 5.3 dev
>>> branch off the current 5.2 code base.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Josh Canfield <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm thinking about rolling my own generic monitoring/statistics solution for
>>>> tapestry 5 and I figured I should see if something is out there already
>>>> before I spent too much time on it.
>>>>
>>>> This is to be used in production and connected to an external monitoring
>>>> system, probably via JMX, but we might be flexible.
>>>>
>>>> Anything come to mind?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>>
>>> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>>>
>>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
>>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>>>
>>> (971) 678-5210
>>> http://howardlewisship.com
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>
>> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>>
>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>>
>> (971) 678-5210
>> http://howardlewisship.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Daniel Jue <te...@gmail.com>.
I don't think this is a good idea. I understand that it would satisfy
a lot of curiosity. Not that it could phone home on the networks I
deal with. There would have to be value-add for the end user, such as
checking for a newer version, etc.
Is there precedent for this in other Apache projects?
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This came up during my training class this week.
>
> What would be the repercussions if Tapestry included a start-up filter
> that "reported" the application startup back to some central location,
> so that we could get some idea of where and how Tapestry is being
> used? Obviously, this would be documented, in such a way that it
> would be easy to turn off for the privacy-minded.
>
> It would be interesting to know how many apps are running in the wild,
> and details about how many pages & components & services, JVM
> version, and OS and hardware configuration.
>
> Asking people to do this manually is a non-starter, I'm constantly
> surprised by people telling me they are using Tapestry in visible
> places.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Alessio Gambi <ag...@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Monitoring/statistics
> To: Tapestry users <us...@tapestry.apache.org>
>
>
> Hi,
> Please think also about some way to obtain (meta) statistics about
> Tapestry itself. Something that can be used to track how many people
> are actually using tapestry as platform for their applications.
>
> -- Alessio
>
> On 11-ott-2010, at 18:05, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've been thinking about this kind of thing as well; having a JMX bean
>> for each Page instance and tracking number of render requests, number
>> of event requests, number of ajax even requests, and ellapsed
>> processing time for each.
>>
>> Obviously, it's a bit late for 5.2 ... it may be time to cut a 5.3 dev
>> branch off the current 5.2 code base.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Josh Canfield <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm thinking about rolling my own generic monitoring/statistics solution for
>>> tapestry 5 and I figured I should see if something is out there already
>>> before I spent too much time on it.
>>>
>>> This is to be used in production and connected to an external monitoring
>>> system, probably via JMX, but we might be flexible.
>>>
>>> Anything come to mind?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>
>> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>>
>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>>
>> (971) 678-5210
>> http://howardlewisship.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by ael <al...@dash.com.ph>.
I Agree a new site for Tapestry Products ^_^ +1.
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Michael Gentry <mg...@masslight.net>.
Any such system should be opt-in, not opt-out. We are all curious who
uses T5 and for what purposes, but I know the organization I work for
wouldn't appreciate that kind of intentional leakage.
Thanks,
mrg
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Michal Gruca <mi...@gmail.com>.
One more idea from my side. This could be done as extension (similar to
hibernate support) that would provide statistic's for page owner with
checkbox: send my anonymized data to tapestry.apache.org and separate page
on which user could configure what is send
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Michal Gruca <mi...@gmail.com>.
+1 for not do it by default.
But I give +1 if it could be additional library added if someone wishes to
contribute.
As for how it could work my proposal is to put some public page on tapestry
project where anyone could check site some aggregated stats. In library
service module there should be options that could set what is being uploaded
to tapestry public repository. In return for that data, tapestry could send
emails with information about updates or important security patches.
Regards
Michał
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Josh Canfield <jo...@gmail.com>.
yeah... not the kind of monitoring I had in mind ;)
The generator meta tag is there, and I stumbled across this handy tool:
http://www.gigablast.com/search?k5b=640731&dt=generator&q=generator%3A%22apache+tapestry%22
I've built a couple sites using Drupal and they have a page which
enumerates the modules you are using with the versions you have vs.
what's available and whether the new version addresses a security
issue etc... There might be room for a Tapestry Module repository that
provided similar functionality...
Josh
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This came up during my training class this week.
>
> What would be the repercussions if Tapestry included a start-up filter
> that "reported" the application startup back to some central location,
> so that we could get some idea of where and how Tapestry is being
> used? Obviously, this would be documented, in such a way that it
> would be easy to turn off for the privacy-minded.
>
> It would be interesting to know how many apps are running in the wild,
> and details about how many pages & components & services, JVM
> version, and OS and hardware configuration.
>
> Asking people to do this manually is a non-starter, I'm constantly
> surprised by people telling me they are using Tapestry in visible
> places.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Alessio Gambi <ag...@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Monitoring/statistics
> To: Tapestry users <us...@tapestry.apache.org>
>
>
> Hi,
> Please think also about some way to obtain (meta) statistics about
> Tapestry itself. Something that can be used to track how many people
> are actually using tapestry as platform for their applications.
>
> -- Alessio
>
> On 11-ott-2010, at 18:05, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've been thinking about this kind of thing as well; having a JMX bean
>> for each Page instance and tracking number of render requests, number
>> of event requests, number of ajax even requests, and ellapsed
>> processing time for each.
>>
>> Obviously, it's a bit late for 5.2 ... it may be time to cut a 5.3 dev
>> branch off the current 5.2 code base.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Josh Canfield <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm thinking about rolling my own generic monitoring/statistics solution for
>>> tapestry 5 and I figured I should see if something is out there already
>>> before I spent too much time on it.
>>>
>>> This is to be used in production and connected to an external monitoring
>>> system, probably via JMX, but we might be flexible.
>>>
>>> Anything come to mind?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>
>> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>>
>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>>
>> (971) 678-5210
>> http://howardlewisship.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
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Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Posted by Martin Strand <do...@gmail.com>.
I don't like this idea. Perhaps I'm one of those privacy-minded people
since we use Tapestry in a security sensitive context (credit cards).
I remember some time ago when we looked at upgrading Quartz and were
surprised to see the new version trying to dial home in a similar manner
(by default)
Update checker, added in 1.7.2
http://jira.opensymphony.com/browse/QUARTZ-842
An option to turn it off, added in 1.8:
http://jira.terracotta.org/jira/browse/QTZ-29
Not so funny when this unnecessary feature introduces new bugs:
http://jira.terracotta.org/jira/browse/QTZ-28
To me, adding a feature like this communicates to users that the
library/framework in question is not meant to be used in an "enterprise"
environment since nothing like this would get past QA (at least not where
I work)
On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 18:49:13 +0200, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What would be the repercussions if Tapestry included a start-up filter
> that "reported" the application startup back to some central location,
> so that we could get some idea of where and how Tapestry is being
> used? Obviously, this would be documented, in such a way that it
> would be easy to turn off for the privacy-minded.
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