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Posted to dev@tapestry.apache.org by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> on 2005/07/28 00:45:21 UTC

[VOTE] Remove default-binding

OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.

This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.

Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1

-- 
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind

Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work.  http://howardlewisship.com

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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Jonas Maurus <jo...@gmail.com>.
Howard Lewis Ship <hlship <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 
> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
> 
> This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
> 
> Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
> 

-1 (non-binding)

Reasoning:
This feature allows for component parameters to be defined with the most likely
use pattern which is very good and reduces clutter in our forthcoming Tapestry
4.0 application somewhat (especially omitting the "message:"-prefix in our own
components, where the parameter names have meaningful names like "label" or
"listener"). For new users a mandatory "literal:" default binding will do
nothing but produce lots of exceptions and unreadable specifications, while an
"ognl:" default binding will produce unexpected results for newbies and lots of
extra typing for developers working with rich components.

However, if support has to be removed (looks like it from my preliminary vote
count), use literal:, as it's most likely to produce exceptions instead of
unexpected results.

Best regards,
Jonas Maurus



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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Mikaël Cluseau <nw...@nwrk.dyndns.org>.
+1 (non-binding) -- previous message wasn't on the list...

Le mercredi 27 juillet 2005 à 18:45 -0400, Howard Lewis Ship a écrit :
> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
> 
> This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
> 
> Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
> 

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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
Geoff Longman: +1

On 7/27/05, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach.
> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
> 
> This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
> 
> Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
> 
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
> 
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work.  http://howardlewisship.com
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> 
> 


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[RESULT] Remove default-binding -- PASSED

Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach.
Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.

This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.

Binding votes:

Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
Richard Lewis Shell: +1
Erik Hatcher: +1
Paul Ferraro: +1
Geoff Longman: +1
Harish Krishnaswamy: +1

Non-binding votes:

Richard Hensley: +1
Brian K. Wallace: +1
Mikaël Cluseau : +1
Kevin Menard: -1
Robert Zeigler: -0
Henre Dupre: +1
David Taylor: +1
Jamie Orchard-Hays: +1 
Nick Westgate: +1
Shawn Church: +1 
Norbert Sándor: +1
Maximilian Weissboeck: +1
Davor Hrg: +1
Jonas Maurus: -1

Follow up:  this is still a divisive issue, as the several non-binding
-1 votes show. But the code is already purged from the system and (I
hope) the examples.

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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Richard Lewis-Shell <rl...@mac.com>.
Richard Lewis-Shell: +1 (binding)

Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
> 
> This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
> 
> Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
> 

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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Henri Dupre <he...@gmail.com>.
+1

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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Norbert Sándor <de...@erinors.com>.
+1 (non-binding)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Howard Lewis Ship" <hl...@gmail.com>
To: "Tapestry development" <ta...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:45 AM
Subject: [VOTE] Remove default-binding


OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.

This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.

Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1

-- 
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind

Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work.  http://howardlewisship.com

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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Paul Ferraro <pa...@gmail.com>.
Paul Ferraro: +1 (binding)

Howard Lewis Ship wrote:

>OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
>out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
>Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
>template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
>
>This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
>work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
>code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
>
>Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
>
>  
>


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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Davor Hrg <hr...@gmail.com>.
+1 non-binding

On 7/28/05, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough. I'm willing to strip
> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach.
> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
> 
> This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
> 
> Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
> 
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
> 
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> 
>

Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Kevin Menard <km...@servprise.com>.
Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.

Kevin Menard: -1 (non-binding)

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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Jamie Orchard-Hays <ja...@dang.com>.
Jamie Orchard-Hays: +1 (non-binding)


On Jul 27, 2005, at 6:45 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:

> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach.
> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
>
> This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
>
> Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
>
> -- 
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work.  http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>


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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
Only committer votes are binding.

Expressing an opinion by casting non-binding votes is a good way to
establish a presence in the developer community; it's one prerequisite
towards eventually becoming a committer.

On 7/27/05, Kevin Menard <km...@servprise.com> wrote:
> Pardon my ignorance, but how does the whole voting thing work anyway?
> Do only developers get to vote?  Are the votes just -1, 0, +1?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kevin
> 
> Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> > OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
> > out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach.
> > Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> > template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
> >
> > This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> > work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> > code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
> >
> > Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
> >
> 
> 
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> 
> 


-- 
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind

Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work.  http://howardlewisship.com

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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by "Brian K. Wallace" <br...@transmorphix.com>.
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Hash: SHA1

Pablo Ruggia wrote:
| Yes, I'm curious too. Also, what is the difference between a bindind
and a
| non-binding vote ?
|
| On 7/27/05, Kevin Menard <km...@servprise.com> wrote:
|
|>Pardon my ignorance, but how does the whole voting thing work anyway?
|>Do only developers get to vote? Are the votes just -1, 0, +1?
|>
|>Thanks,
|>Kevin
Anyone can vote. The difference between binding and non-binding is the
difference between a committer and a non-committer. The Apache way of
+1/+0/-1 is the simple way of saying: "I'm for it"/"Doesn't matter to
me"/"I'm against it". (those are the simple definitions). A -1
non-binding is a flag for developers, but not something that will defeat
a vote while a -1 binding is.

A longer description can be found here:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
and
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/decisions.html
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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Pablo Ruggia <pr...@gmail.com>.
Yes, I'm curious too. Also, what is the difference between a bindind and a 
non-binding vote ?

On 7/27/05, Kevin Menard <km...@servprise.com> wrote:
> 
> Pardon my ignorance, but how does the whole voting thing work anyway?
> Do only developers get to vote? Are the votes just -1, 0, +1?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kevin
> 
> Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> > OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough. I'm willing to strip
> > out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach.
> > Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> > template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
> >
> > This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> > work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> > code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
> >
> > Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
> >
> 
> 
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> 
>

Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Richard Lewis-Shell <rl...@mac.com>.
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/decisions.html

Kevin Menard wrote:
> Pardon my ignorance, but how does the whole voting thing work anyway?
> Do only developers get to vote?  Are the votes just -1, 0, +1?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kevin
> 
> Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> 
>>OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
>>out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
>>Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
>>template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
>>
>>This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
>>work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
>>code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
>>
>>Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
>>
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 

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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Kevin Menard <km...@servprise.com>.
Pardon my ignorance, but how does the whole voting thing work anyway?
Do only developers get to vote?  Are the votes just -1, 0, +1?

Thanks,
Kevin

Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
> 
> This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
> 
> Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
> 


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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by David Taylor <Da...@ExtensiaTech.com>.
+1 (non-binding)

Better to keep things simple and easy to remember. While I prefer the 
cleaner look of default bindings, IMHO we will be better off in the long 
term if we don't let the genie out of the bottle.
-- 
David Taylor

Howard Lewis Ship wrote:

>OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
>out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
>Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
>template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
>
>This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
>work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
>code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
>
>Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
>
>  
>



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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Jamie Orchard-Hays <ja...@dang.com>.
I wish you could!  ;-)


On Jul 27, 2005, at 7:46 PM, Erik Hatcher wrote:

> All my fault, and I take back the pain it's caused.
>
> Erik Hatcher: +1 (binding)
>
> Caveat: I won't be able to test this - I have no Tap4 app in  
> development at the moment, sorry.
>
> On Jul 27, 2005, at 6:45 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>
>> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
>> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach.
>> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
>> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
>>
>> This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
>> work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
>> code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent  
>> errors.
>>
>> Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
>>
>> -- 
>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
>> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
>> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>>
>> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
>> and project work.  http://howardlewisship.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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>


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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Erik Hatcher <er...@ehatchersolutions.com>.
All my fault, and I take back the pain it's caused.

Erik Hatcher: +1 (binding)

Caveat: I won't be able to test this - I have no Tap4 app in  
development at the moment, sorry.

On Jul 27, 2005, at 6:45 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach.
> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
>
> This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
>
> Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
>
> -- 
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work.  http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>


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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Robert Zeigler <rd...@u.arizona.edu>.
-0 (non-binding)
I still feel that the ambiguity introduced into tp4 by removing the
various binding elements (static-binding, etc.) makes the choice of
literal as default for both templates and specifications the correct
one.  But I'm willing to live with it either way.

Robert Zeigler

Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
> 
> This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
> 
> Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
> 


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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Nick Westgate <ni...@key-planning.co.jp>.
+1 (non-binding)

Not using T4 quite yet though unfortunately.

Cheers,
Nick.


Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
> 
> This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
> 
> Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
> 

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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Harish Krishnaswamy <ha...@gmail.com>.
Harish Krishnaswamy: +1 (binding)

On 7/27/05, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
> out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach.
> Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
> template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
> 
> This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
> work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
> code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
> 
> Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
> 
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
> 
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work.  http://howardlewisship.com
> 
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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> 
>

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Re: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by "Brian K. Wallace" <br...@transmorphix.com>.
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Hash: SHA1

Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
| OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
| out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach.
| Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
| template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.
|
| This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
| work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
| code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.
|
| Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1
|
+1 (non-binding)
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RE: [VOTE] Remove default-binding

Posted by Shawn Church <sh...@boxity.com>.
Shawn Church: +1 (non-binding)

-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Lewis Ship [mailto:hlship@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5:45 PM
To: Tapestry development
Subject: [VOTE] Remove default-binding


OK ... this discussion has gone on long enough.  I'm willing to strip
out the default-binding stuff and replace it with a simpler approach. 
Attributes will be intepreted as literals (unless prefixed) in the
template, and as OGNL expressions (unless prefixed) elsewhere.

This is a potentially de-stabilizing change; I am willing to do the
work, but will expect others to pitch in and test (that is, pull down
code and build apps against it), to help track down any latent errors.

Howard M. Lewis Ship: +1

-- 
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind

Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work.  http://howardlewisship.com

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