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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com> on 2008/10/28 01:01:25 UTC
New JIRA: Tapestry does not pick pages, components and templates
after application startup
Hi!
Tapestry 5's live class reloading is a huge productivity boost, specially
when compared to almost any other web framework out there. Maybe 90% of
all web app reloads are eliminated.
But there is the remaining 10% of the reloads. Most of them are related to
new pages and components. In other words: Tapestry does not pick new
pages, components and templates after it is started. If this fact is
reversed, we could develop an entire web interface without reloading the
application.
In addition, there is one other reason to implement this new feature:
applications with static content. Every time I add a new page to my
website, www.arsmachina.com.br, I have to restart the application, as it's
written on T5. This is not an issue to arsmachina.com.br, but can be to
high traffic websites.
What do you think about this? I've just created it:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAP5-315 If you agree with me,
please vote. :)
PS: My website does not have any interactivity, any logic yet. Just static
content. My website is implemented with T5, so I can use the Layout
component pattern and not repeat the pages' common parts (header, footer,
menu) on every page. T5 can be very useful even in static websites. :)
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java consultant, developer, and instructor
http://www.arsmachina.com.br/thiago
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Re: New JIRA: Tapestry does not pick pages, components and templates after application startup
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
In Tapestry, for component classes, you can make any change you want.
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Martin Strand
<do...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:42:50 +0100, Kalle Korhonen
> <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <
>> thiagohp@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just to provide a differing viewpoint: I've had live class reloading
>>>>
>>>> already in Tapestry 4.x with Tomcat, Eclipse and Sysdeo's Tomcat plugin
>>>> for
>>>> years. I've always wondered what the fuss is about live class reloading
>>>> as a
>>>> new
>>>> feature.
>>>>
>>> AFAIK, what they do is to restart the application context everytime you
>>> change a class.
>>> T5's live class reloading is about not restarting the context when you
>>> change a class.
>>>
>>
>> No, this is live class reloading. I do know the difference between context
>> reloading and hot code swapping.
>>
>> Kalle
>
> I wouldn't be able to live without hot code swapping. Unfortunately it only
> works as long as you don't add new public methods or make other large
> changes. Add your votes here! :)
> http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4910812
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
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>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind
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Re: New JIRA: Tapestry does not pick pages, components and templates after application startup
Posted by Martin Strand <do...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:42:50 +0100, Kalle Korhonen
<ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <
> thiagohp@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just to provide a differing viewpoint: I've had live class reloading
>>> already in Tapestry 4.x with Tomcat, Eclipse and Sysdeo's Tomcat
>>> plugin for
>>> years. I've always wondered what the fuss is about live class
>>> reloading as a
>>> new
>>> feature.
>>>
>> AFAIK, what they do is to restart the application context everytime you
>> change a class.
>> T5's live class reloading is about not restarting the context when you
>> change a class.
>>
>
> No, this is live class reloading. I do know the difference between
> context
> reloading and hot code swapping.
>
> Kalle
I wouldn't be able to live without hot code swapping. Unfortunately it
only works as long as you don't add new public methods or make other large
changes. Add your votes here! :)
http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4910812
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Re: New JIRA: Tapestry does not pick pages, components and templates after application startup
Posted by Kalle Korhonen <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <
thiagohp@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just to provide a differing viewpoint: I've had live class reloading
>> already in Tapestry 4.x with Tomcat, Eclipse and Sysdeo's Tomcat plugin for
>> years. I've always wondered what the fuss is about live class reloading as a
>> new
>> feature.
>>
> AFAIK, what they do is to restart the application context everytime you
> change a class.
> T5's live class reloading is about not restarting the context when you
> change a class.
>
No, this is live class reloading. I do know the difference between context
reloading and hot code swapping.
Kalle
Re: New JIRA: Tapestry does not pick pages, components and templates
after application startup
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
Em Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:29:58 -0300, Kalle Korhonen
<ka...@gmail.com> escreveu:
> Just to provide a differing viewpoint: I've had live class reloading
> already in Tapestry 4.x with Tomcat, Eclipse and Sysdeo's Tomcat plugin
> for years. I've always wondered what the fuss is about live class
> reloading as a new
> feature.
AFAIK, what they do is to restart the application context everytime you
change a class.
T5's live class reloading is about not restarting the context when you
change a class.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java consultant, developer, and instructor
http://www.arsmachina.com.br/thiago
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Re: New JIRA: Tapestry does not pick pages, components and templates after application startup
Posted by Kalle Korhonen <ka...@gmail.com>.
Just to provide a differing viewpoint: I've had live class reloading already
in Tapestry 4.x with Tomcat, Eclipse and Sysdeo's Tomcat plugin for years.
I've always wondered what the fuss is about live class reloading as a new
feature. I say if during development you have to restart your app server
regularly or even copy any class files around as Howard seems to suggest,
you are doing something wrong.
Kalle
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Peter Stavrinides <
P.Stavrinides@albourne.com> wrote:
> I have found that it depends greatly on your configuration. I use maven
> with eclipse 3.3 on ubuntu for build and dependency management with the
> jetty plug-in to run Tapestry. Reloading works well for me, but I have found
> that some versions of the plug-in didn't do the reloading out of the box for
> whatever reason.
>
> Some of my colleagues run an identical setup to me, just on windows instead
> on Linux and it doesn't seem work for them either. And Tomcat is another
> story, it does not do live reloading at all, it does a kind of partial
> restart, which is nowhere near as productive as Jetty and can be a bit
> annoying to work with at times.
>
> regards,
> Peter
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Howard Lewis Ship" <hl...@gmail.com>
> To: "Tapestry users" <us...@tapestry.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 October, 2008 4:41:14 PM GMT +02:00 Athens, Beirut,
> Bucharest, Istanbul
> Subject: Re: New JIRA: Tapestry does not pick pages, components and
> templates after application startup
>
> You should be able to point Jetty at your workspace's src/main/webapp
> folder (or equivalent). As long as your IDE compiles classes to
> folders on Jetty's classpath, live class reloading just works.
>
> Live class reloading is only for class file directly on the file
> system; classes packaged into JARs are not subject to live class
> reloading.
>
> The most likely problem is that your classes are compiled to directory
> A but not then copied to directory B which is on Jetty's search path.
>
> I've had zero problems with live class reloading in Eclipse and
> IntelliJ, but I haven't tried NetBeans.
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:41 AM, Ville Virtanen
> <vi...@cerion.fi> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, this is almost off topic...
> >
> > but atleast we have, and have always had problems with live reloading.
> There
> > are less than 10 developers currently that are familiar and working with
> T5
> > here and not single one currently has working live reloading.
> >
> > It would be great if there would be detailed how-to live reload document,
> > that clearly explains what conditions must be met prior live reloading
> > works.
> >
> > - Ville
> >
> > Ps. We have NetBeans 6.1 + jetty, tomcat 6 or glassfish with either ant
> > build process or maven depending on the project.
> >
> >
> > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi!
> >>
> >> Tapestry 5's live class reloading is a huge productivity boost,
> specially
> >> when compared to almost any other web framework out there. Maybe 90% of
> >> all web app reloads are eliminated.
> >>
> >> But there is the remaining 10% of the reloads. Most of them are related
> to
> >> new pages and components. In other words: Tapestry does not pick new
> >> pages, components and templates after it is started. If this fact is
> >> reversed, we could develop an entire web interface without reloading the
> >> application.
> >>
> >> In addition, there is one other reason to implement this new feature:
> >> applications with static content. Every time I add a new page to my
> >> website, www.arsmachina.com.br, I have to restart the application, as
> it's
> >> written on T5. This is not an issue to arsmachina.com.br, but can be to
> >> high traffic websites.
> >>
> >> What do you think about this? I've just created it:
> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAP5-315 If you agree with me,
> >> please vote. :)
> >>
> >> PS: My website does not have any interactivity, any logic yet. Just
> static
> >> content. My website is implemented with T5, so I can use the Layout
> >> component pattern and not repeat the pages' common parts (header,
> footer,
> >> menu) on every page. T5 can be very useful even in static websites. :)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> >> Independent Java consultant, developer, and instructor
> >> http://www.arsmachina.com.br/thiago
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/New-JIRA%3A-Tapestry-does-not-pick-pages%2C-components-and-templates-after-application-startup-tp20198999p20202575.html
> > Sent from the Tapestry - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
Re: New JIRA: Tapestry does not pick pages, components and
templates after application startup
Posted by Peter Stavrinides <P....@albourne.com>.
I have found that it depends greatly on your configuration. I use maven with eclipse 3.3 on ubuntu for build and dependency management with the jetty plug-in to run Tapestry. Reloading works well for me, but I have found that some versions of the plug-in didn't do the reloading out of the box for whatever reason.
Some of my colleagues run an identical setup to me, just on windows instead on Linux and it doesn't seem work for them either. And Tomcat is another story, it does not do live reloading at all, it does a kind of partial restart, which is nowhere near as productive as Jetty and can be a bit annoying to work with at times.
regards,
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Lewis Ship" <hl...@gmail.com>
To: "Tapestry users" <us...@tapestry.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, 29 October, 2008 4:41:14 PM GMT +02:00 Athens, Beirut, Bucharest, Istanbul
Subject: Re: New JIRA: Tapestry does not pick pages, components and templates after application startup
You should be able to point Jetty at your workspace's src/main/webapp
folder (or equivalent). As long as your IDE compiles classes to
folders on Jetty's classpath, live class reloading just works.
Live class reloading is only for class file directly on the file
system; classes packaged into JARs are not subject to live class
reloading.
The most likely problem is that your classes are compiled to directory
A but not then copied to directory B which is on Jetty's search path.
I've had zero problems with live class reloading in Eclipse and
IntelliJ, but I haven't tried NetBeans.
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:41 AM, Ville Virtanen
<vi...@cerion.fi> wrote:
>
> Hi, this is almost off topic...
>
> but atleast we have, and have always had problems with live reloading. There
> are less than 10 developers currently that are familiar and working with T5
> here and not single one currently has working live reloading.
>
> It would be great if there would be detailed how-to live reload document,
> that clearly explains what conditions must be met prior live reloading
> works.
>
> - Ville
>
> Ps. We have NetBeans 6.1 + jetty, tomcat 6 or glassfish with either ant
> build process or maven depending on the project.
>
>
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Tapestry 5's live class reloading is a huge productivity boost, specially
>> when compared to almost any other web framework out there. Maybe 90% of
>> all web app reloads are eliminated.
>>
>> But there is the remaining 10% of the reloads. Most of them are related to
>> new pages and components. In other words: Tapestry does not pick new
>> pages, components and templates after it is started. If this fact is
>> reversed, we could develop an entire web interface without reloading the
>> application.
>>
>> In addition, there is one other reason to implement this new feature:
>> applications with static content. Every time I add a new page to my
>> website, www.arsmachina.com.br, I have to restart the application, as it's
>> written on T5. This is not an issue to arsmachina.com.br, but can be to
>> high traffic websites.
>>
>> What do you think about this? I've just created it:
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAP5-315 If you agree with me,
>> please vote. :)
>>
>> PS: My website does not have any interactivity, any logic yet. Just static
>> content. My website is implemented with T5, so I can use the Layout
>> component pattern and not repeat the pages' common parts (header, footer,
>> menu) on every page. T5 can be very useful even in static websites. :)
>>
>> --
>> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>> Independent Java consultant, developer, and instructor
>> http://www.arsmachina.com.br/thiago
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/New-JIRA%3A-Tapestry-does-not-pick-pages%2C-components-and-templates-after-application-startup-tp20198999p20202575.html
> Sent from the Tapestry - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind
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Re: New JIRA: Tapestry does not pick pages, components and templates after application startup
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
You should be able to point Jetty at your workspace's src/main/webapp
folder (or equivalent). As long as your IDE compiles classes to
folders on Jetty's classpath, live class reloading just works.
Live class reloading is only for class file directly on the file
system; classes packaged into JARs are not subject to live class
reloading.
The most likely problem is that your classes are compiled to directory
A but not then copied to directory B which is on Jetty's search path.
I've had zero problems with live class reloading in Eclipse and
IntelliJ, but I haven't tried NetBeans.
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:41 AM, Ville Virtanen
<vi...@cerion.fi> wrote:
>
> Hi, this is almost off topic...
>
> but atleast we have, and have always had problems with live reloading. There
> are less than 10 developers currently that are familiar and working with T5
> here and not single one currently has working live reloading.
>
> It would be great if there would be detailed how-to live reload document,
> that clearly explains what conditions must be met prior live reloading
> works.
>
> - Ville
>
> Ps. We have NetBeans 6.1 + jetty, tomcat 6 or glassfish with either ant
> build process or maven depending on the project.
>
>
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Tapestry 5's live class reloading is a huge productivity boost, specially
>> when compared to almost any other web framework out there. Maybe 90% of
>> all web app reloads are eliminated.
>>
>> But there is the remaining 10% of the reloads. Most of them are related to
>> new pages and components. In other words: Tapestry does not pick new
>> pages, components and templates after it is started. If this fact is
>> reversed, we could develop an entire web interface without reloading the
>> application.
>>
>> In addition, there is one other reason to implement this new feature:
>> applications with static content. Every time I add a new page to my
>> website, www.arsmachina.com.br, I have to restart the application, as it's
>> written on T5. This is not an issue to arsmachina.com.br, but can be to
>> high traffic websites.
>>
>> What do you think about this? I've just created it:
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAP5-315 If you agree with me,
>> please vote. :)
>>
>> PS: My website does not have any interactivity, any logic yet. Just static
>> content. My website is implemented with T5, so I can use the Layout
>> component pattern and not repeat the pages' common parts (header, footer,
>> menu) on every page. T5 can be very useful even in static websites. :)
>>
>> --
>> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>> Independent Java consultant, developer, and instructor
>> http://www.arsmachina.com.br/thiago
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/New-JIRA%3A-Tapestry-does-not-pick-pages%2C-components-and-templates-after-application-startup-tp20198999p20202575.html
> Sent from the Tapestry - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind
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Re: New JIRA: Tapestry does not pick pages, components and
templates after application startup
Posted by Ville Virtanen <vi...@cerion.fi>.
Hi, this is almost off topic...
but atleast we have, and have always had problems with live reloading. There
are less than 10 developers currently that are familiar and working with T5
here and not single one currently has working live reloading.
It would be great if there would be detailed how-to live reload document,
that clearly explains what conditions must be met prior live reloading
works.
- Ville
Ps. We have NetBeans 6.1 + jetty, tomcat 6 or glassfish with either ant
build process or maven depending on the project.
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> Tapestry 5's live class reloading is a huge productivity boost, specially
> when compared to almost any other web framework out there. Maybe 90% of
> all web app reloads are eliminated.
>
> But there is the remaining 10% of the reloads. Most of them are related to
> new pages and components. In other words: Tapestry does not pick new
> pages, components and templates after it is started. If this fact is
> reversed, we could develop an entire web interface without reloading the
> application.
>
> In addition, there is one other reason to implement this new feature:
> applications with static content. Every time I add a new page to my
> website, www.arsmachina.com.br, I have to restart the application, as it's
> written on T5. This is not an issue to arsmachina.com.br, but can be to
> high traffic websites.
>
> What do you think about this? I've just created it:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAP5-315 If you agree with me,
> please vote. :)
>
> PS: My website does not have any interactivity, any logic yet. Just static
> content. My website is implemented with T5, so I can use the Layout
> component pattern and not repeat the pages' common parts (header, footer,
> menu) on every page. T5 can be very useful even in static websites. :)
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java consultant, developer, and instructor
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br/thiago
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
--
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