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Posted to netcat@netbeans.apache.org by mi...@owsiak.org on 2018/11/01 08:35:56 UTC
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
here are my thoughts.
> 1. Tickets in strange state
>
> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay attention to
> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are gone. With
> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev team is
> you.
I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who have no idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP, HTML, C/C++).
> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> misunderstanding how open source software development works. Good news
> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and setting their
> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated to the process) that we should focus on testing only.
But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no dedicated developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for developing NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't raise this kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the landscape of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
>
> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset for
> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their tribe
> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing the work
> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious ones to
> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If these do
> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program coordinators
> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants with
> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are still taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time that much.
I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports summarizing activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where it was standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that NetCAT was targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for themselves how to update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact, suits me better :)
Michal
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Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Well, you can specify that in your response.
Gj
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:09 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Along the same lines, yes, first question, "What do you think about
> netbeans java editing features"... no idea as I do not use it for java.
>
> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 10:45, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>:
>
> > But the Survey is only multiple choice, I can remember a Survey back in
> > the days of NetBeans 7 and I think 8 too, where we have some textfields
> > where users can add most their most wanted Features and at the end of the
> > Survey, after collecting the data, there was a overview of that.
> >
> > I did the Survey but did I miss such fields or Questions?
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Von: Geertjan Wielenga
> > Gesendet: Freitag, 2. November 2018 13:39
> > An: netcat
> > Betreff: Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
> >
> > Makes perfect sense, use the survey to indicate which issues you're most
> > concerned about.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:53 PM Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I would suggest to identify then with BLOCKER severity.
> > >
> > > -Jirka
> > >
> > > Dne 2.11.2018 v 12:46 Geertjan Wielenga napsal(a):
> > > > Sure, fair enough, the problem though is how to identify them in the
> > > issue
> > > > tracker.
> > > >
> > > > Gj
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:33 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <
> > > tmthv2@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> That defeats purpose of issue tracker. This information needs to be
> > > readily
> > > >> available on report or query, not dispersed emails.
> > > >>
> > > >> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г., 7:30 Geertjan Wielenga
> > > >> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Maybe one way to approach this would be to ask everyone in NetCAT
> to
> > > >> list 3
> > > >>> of the issues they filed that they'd prioritize for fixing over all
> > > >> others,
> > > >>> regardless of whether they're blockers, i.e., simply 'my world
> would
> > > be a
> > > >>> good deal better if the following 3 were to be fixed', just add
> them
> > > as a
> > > >>> response in this thread.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Gj
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:28 PM Alexander Romanenko <
> > > >>> alex@alex-tech-adventures.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> I was setting "affected version" to 10 for my issues - it looked
> > like
> > > >>> that
> > > >>>> was the label for this iteration of testing, so could maybe search
> > by
> > > >>> that
> > > >>>> too.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 7:18, Geertjan Wielenga
> > > >>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Well, I'd like to see all the issues that have been filed during
> > the
> > > >>>> NetCAT
> > > >>>>> program.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I'd also somehow like to see which ones really need to be fixed,
> > > >> which
> > > >>>> ones
> > > >>>>> can no longer be reproduced in 10-vc2 (maybe everyone in NetCAT
> can
> > > >>> check
> > > >>>>> whether all their issues can still be reproduced in NetCAT and
> then
> > > >>> add a
> > > >>>>> 'NetCAT 10' label so we can collect then all), which ones need to
> > be
> > > >>>>> prioritized, etc.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Gj
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:28 AM Jiří Kovalský <
> > > >> jiri.kovalsky@oracle.com
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Why do we need such filter?
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> -Jirka
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Dne 2.11.2018 v 04:20 Leo Donahue napsal(a):
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using
> > > >> JIRA
> > > >>>>> labels
> > > >>>>>>> for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > >>>>>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through
> the
> > > >>>>> NetCAT
> > > >>>>>>>> program?
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Gj
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> here are my thoughts.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay
> > > >>> attention
> > > >>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are
> > > >>> gone.
> > > >>>>> With
> > > >>>>>>>>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address
> > > >> each
> > > >>>>>>>>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The
> dev
> > > >>>> team
> > > >>>>> is
> > > >>>>>>>>>> you.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people
> > > >> who
> > > >>>> have
> > > >>>>>> no
> > > >>>>>>>>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g.
> PHP,
> > > >>>> HTML,
> > > >>>>>>>> C/C++).
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> > > >>>>>>>>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works.
> > > >>> Good
> > > >>>>> news
> > > >>>>>>>>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October,
> trying
> > > >> to
> > > >>>>>>>>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and
> > > >>> setting
> > > >>>>>> their
> > > >>>>>>>>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do
> > > >> that?
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages
> dedicated
> > > >>> to
> > > >>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are
> no
> > > >>>>>> dedicated
> > > >>>>>>>>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for
> > > >>>>> developing
> > > >>>>>>>>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I
> won't
> > > >>>> raise
> > > >>>>>> this
> > > >>>>>>>>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply,
> > > >> the
> > > >>>>>>>> landscape
> > > >>>>>>>>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious
> asset
> > > >>> for
> > > >>>>>>>>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with
> their
> > > >>>> tribe
> > > >>>>>>>>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then
> distributing
> > > >>> the
> > > >>>>>> work
> > > >>>>>>>>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding
> > > >> about
> > > >>>>>>>>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most
> serious
> > > >>>> ones
> > > >>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If
> > > >>> these
> > > >>>>> do
> > > >>>>>>>>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program
> > > >>>> coordinators
> > > >>>>>>>>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT
> > > >> participants
> > > >>>> with
> > > >>>>>>>>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities
> are
> > > >>>> still
> > > >>>>>>>>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this
> time
> > > >>> that
> > > >>>>>> much.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports
> > > >>>> summarizing
> > > >>>>>>>>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew
> > > >> where
> > > >>>> it
> > > >>>>>> was
> > > >>>>>>>>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that
> > > >>> NetCAT
> > > >>>>> was
> > > >>>>>>>>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for
> > > >>>> themselves
> > > >>>>>> how
> > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact,
> > > >>> suits
> > > >>>>> me
> > > >>>>>>>>> better :)
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Michal
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > > >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > >> netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists,
> > > >> visit:
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=bav55yn4OB_qRWlPyg-3eJxbD1-VSSiM3rlfkRSmb04&s=F_nGJasZFETJzbaEQ5jlaHNRp9JVwzJm8vodU36w0M4&e=
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > >>>>>>
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=OLXzSoP2kiRq-Dn69obkWr5NkRkOZUDIx6QFHxbtaWE&s=2tZUbz7_GDIGgaH0xgUYF19uodGj5PSUotAd-WpNpDc&e=
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>.
Thank you for quick fix :)
Survey completed.
пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:45, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
> Fixed that too.
>
> Try again, sorry. ;-)
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:42 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tmthv2@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Very good, thanks :)
> >
> > Though new option makes the form think there is a bug I want to report,
> > forcing me to answer why java editing support is broken.
> >
> > пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:38, Geertjan Wielenga <
> > geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com>:
> >
> > > OK, start the survey again and now the option 'I do not use Java
> editing
> > > features' is included.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:35 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <
> > tmthv2@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I am VERY weary of skewing statistics in wrong direction like that. I
> > will
> > >> influence false positive impression on release managers, upping the
> > "good"
> > >> making the bad urgent less visible. Conversely, if I am not happy with
> > >> JS/PHP/DB, I now feel like I should blame those who picked "meets
> > >> expectation" for messing with impressions.
> > >>
> > >> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:31, Geertjan Wielenga
> > >> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
> > >>
> > >> > Ah, I see. Yes, there should be an option there to indicate you're
> not
> > >> > using that part of NetBeans.
> > >> >
> > >> > I guess you should response with the choice that it meets your
> > >> > expectations.
> > >> >
> > >> > Gj
> > >> >
> > >> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:27 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <
> > >> tmthv2@gmail.com
> > >> > >
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > How did you skip it? I cannot leave it unanswered, getting error
> > "This
> > >> > is a
> > >> > > required question".
> > >> > >
> > >> > > пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:24, <mi...@owsiak.org>:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > C'mon ;) It's not a big deal.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I have just skipped few of questions like that (e.g. I don't
> write
> > >> PHP
> > >> > at
> > >> > > > all) ;)
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Michal
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Fixed that too.
Try again, sorry. ;-)
Gj
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:42 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Very good, thanks :)
>
> Though new option makes the form think there is a bug I want to report,
> forcing me to answer why java editing support is broken.
>
> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:38, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com>:
>
> > OK, start the survey again and now the option 'I do not use Java editing
> > features' is included.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:35 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <
> tmthv2@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I am VERY weary of skewing statistics in wrong direction like that. I
> will
> >> influence false positive impression on release managers, upping the
> "good"
> >> making the bad urgent less visible. Conversely, if I am not happy with
> >> JS/PHP/DB, I now feel like I should blame those who picked "meets
> >> expectation" for messing with impressions.
> >>
> >> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:31, Geertjan Wielenga
> >> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
> >>
> >> > Ah, I see. Yes, there should be an option there to indicate you're not
> >> > using that part of NetBeans.
> >> >
> >> > I guess you should response with the choice that it meets your
> >> > expectations.
> >> >
> >> > Gj
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:27 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <
> >> tmthv2@gmail.com
> >> > >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > How did you skip it? I cannot leave it unanswered, getting error
> "This
> >> > is a
> >> > > required question".
> >> > >
> >> > > пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:24, <mi...@owsiak.org>:
> >> > >
> >> > > > C'mon ;) It's not a big deal.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I have just skipped few of questions like that (e.g. I don't write
> >> PHP
> >> > at
> >> > > > all) ;)
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Michal
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>.
Very good, thanks :)
Though new option makes the form think there is a bug I want to report,
forcing me to answer why java editing support is broken.
пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:38, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com>:
> OK, start the survey again and now the option 'I do not use Java editing
> features' is included.
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:35 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I am VERY weary of skewing statistics in wrong direction like that. I will
>> influence false positive impression on release managers, upping the "good"
>> making the bad urgent less visible. Conversely, if I am not happy with
>> JS/PHP/DB, I now feel like I should blame those who picked "meets
>> expectation" for messing with impressions.
>>
>> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:31, Geertjan Wielenga
>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
>>
>> > Ah, I see. Yes, there should be an option there to indicate you're not
>> > using that part of NetBeans.
>> >
>> > I guess you should response with the choice that it meets your
>> > expectations.
>> >
>> > Gj
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:27 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <
>> tmthv2@gmail.com
>> > >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > How did you skip it? I cannot leave it unanswered, getting error "This
>> > is a
>> > > required question".
>> > >
>> > > пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:24, <mi...@owsiak.org>:
>> > >
>> > > > C'mon ;) It's not a big deal.
>> > > >
>> > > > I have just skipped few of questions like that (e.g. I don't write
>> PHP
>> > at
>> > > > all) ;)
>> > > >
>> > > > Michal
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
OK, start the survey again and now the option 'I do not use Java editing
features' is included.
Gj
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:35 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I am VERY weary of skewing statistics in wrong direction like that. I will
> influence false positive impression on release managers, upping the "good"
> making the bad urgent less visible. Conversely, if I am not happy with
> JS/PHP/DB, I now feel like I should blame those who picked "meets
> expectation" for messing with impressions.
>
> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:31, Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
>
> > Ah, I see. Yes, there should be an option there to indicate you're not
> > using that part of NetBeans.
> >
> > I guess you should response with the choice that it meets your
> > expectations.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:27 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <
> tmthv2@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > How did you skip it? I cannot leave it unanswered, getting error "This
> > is a
> > > required question".
> > >
> > > пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:24, <mi...@owsiak.org>:
> > >
> > > > C'mon ;) It's not a big deal.
> > > >
> > > > I have just skipped few of questions like that (e.g. I don't write
> PHP
> > at
> > > > all) ;)
> > > >
> > > > Michal
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>.
I am VERY weary of skewing statistics in wrong direction like that. I will
influence false positive impression on release managers, upping the "good"
making the bad urgent less visible. Conversely, if I am not happy with
JS/PHP/DB, I now feel like I should blame those who picked "meets
expectation" for messing with impressions.
пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:31, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
> Ah, I see. Yes, there should be an option there to indicate you're not
> using that part of NetBeans.
>
> I guess you should response with the choice that it meets your
> expectations.
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:27 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tmthv2@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > How did you skip it? I cannot leave it unanswered, getting error "This
> is a
> > required question".
> >
> > пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:24, <mi...@owsiak.org>:
> >
> > > C'mon ;) It's not a big deal.
> > >
> > > I have just skipped few of questions like that (e.g. I don't write PHP
> at
> > > all) ;)
> > >
> > > Michal
> > >
> >
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Ah, I see. Yes, there should be an option there to indicate you're not
using that part of NetBeans.
I guess you should response with the choice that it meets your expectations.
Gj
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:27 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> How did you skip it? I cannot leave it unanswered, getting error "This is a
> required question".
>
> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:24, <mi...@owsiak.org>:
>
> > C'mon ;) It's not a big deal.
> >
> > I have just skipped few of questions like that (e.g. I don't write PHP at
> > all) ;)
> >
> > Michal
> >
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>.
How did you skip it? I cannot leave it unanswered, getting error "This is a
required question".
пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 11:24, <mi...@owsiak.org>:
> C'mon ;) It's not a big deal.
>
> I have just skipped few of questions like that (e.g. I don't write PHP at
> all) ;)
>
> Michal
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>.
Along the same lines, yes, first question, "What do you think about
netbeans java editing features"... no idea as I do not use it for java.
пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 10:45, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>:
> But the Survey is only multiple choice, I can remember a Survey back in
> the days of NetBeans 7 and I think 8 too, where we have some textfields
> where users can add most their most wanted Features and at the end of the
> Survey, after collecting the data, there was a overview of that.
>
> I did the Survey but did I miss such fields or Questions?
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
> Gesendet: Freitag, 2. November 2018 13:39
> An: netcat
> Betreff: Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
>
> Makes perfect sense, use the survey to indicate which issues you're most
> concerned about.
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:53 PM Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I would suggest to identify then with BLOCKER severity.
> >
> > -Jirka
> >
> > Dne 2.11.2018 v 12:46 Geertjan Wielenga napsal(a):
> > > Sure, fair enough, the problem though is how to identify them in the
> > issue
> > > tracker.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:33 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <
> > tmthv2@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> That defeats purpose of issue tracker. This information needs to be
> > readily
> > >> available on report or query, not dispersed emails.
> > >>
> > >> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г., 7:30 Geertjan Wielenga
> > >> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid:
> > >>
> > >>> Maybe one way to approach this would be to ask everyone in NetCAT to
> > >> list 3
> > >>> of the issues they filed that they'd prioritize for fixing over all
> > >> others,
> > >>> regardless of whether they're blockers, i.e., simply 'my world would
> > be a
> > >>> good deal better if the following 3 were to be fixed', just add them
> > as a
> > >>> response in this thread.
> > >>>
> > >>> Gj
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:28 PM Alexander Romanenko <
> > >>> alex@alex-tech-adventures.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> I was setting "affected version" to 10 for my issues - it looked
> like
> > >>> that
> > >>>> was the label for this iteration of testing, so could maybe search
> by
> > >>> that
> > >>>> too.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 7:18, Geertjan Wielenga
> > >>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Well, I'd like to see all the issues that have been filed during
> the
> > >>>> NetCAT
> > >>>>> program.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I'd also somehow like to see which ones really need to be fixed,
> > >> which
> > >>>> ones
> > >>>>> can no longer be reproduced in 10-vc2 (maybe everyone in NetCAT can
> > >>> check
> > >>>>> whether all their issues can still be reproduced in NetCAT and then
> > >>> add a
> > >>>>> 'NetCAT 10' label so we can collect then all), which ones need to
> be
> > >>>>> prioritized, etc.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Gj
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:28 AM Jiří Kovalský <
> > >> jiri.kovalsky@oracle.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Why do we need such filter?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> -Jirka
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Dne 2.11.2018 v 04:20 Leo Donahue napsal(a):
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using
> > >> JIRA
> > >>>>> labels
> > >>>>>>> for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > >>>>>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the
> > >>>>> NetCAT
> > >>>>>>>> program?
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Gj
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> here are my thoughts.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay
> > >>> attention
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are
> > >>> gone.
> > >>>>> With
> > >>>>>>>>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address
> > >> each
> > >>>>>>>>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev
> > >>>> team
> > >>>>> is
> > >>>>>>>>>> you.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people
> > >> who
> > >>>> have
> > >>>>>> no
> > >>>>>>>>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP,
> > >>>> HTML,
> > >>>>>>>> C/C++).
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> > >>>>>>>>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works.
> > >>> Good
> > >>>>> news
> > >>>>>>>>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying
> > >> to
> > >>>>>>>>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and
> > >>> setting
> > >>>>>> their
> > >>>>>>>>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do
> > >> that?
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated
> > >>> to
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no
> > >>>>>> dedicated
> > >>>>>>>>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for
> > >>>>> developing
> > >>>>>>>>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't
> > >>>> raise
> > >>>>>> this
> > >>>>>>>>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply,
> > >> the
> > >>>>>>>> landscape
> > >>>>>>>>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset
> > >>> for
> > >>>>>>>>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their
> > >>>> tribe
> > >>>>>>>>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing
> > >>> the
> > >>>>>> work
> > >>>>>>>>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding
> > >> about
> > >>>>>>>>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious
> > >>>> ones
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If
> > >>> these
> > >>>>> do
> > >>>>>>>>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program
> > >>>> coordinators
> > >>>>>>>>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT
> > >> participants
> > >>>> with
> > >>>>>>>>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are
> > >>>> still
> > >>>>>>>>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time
> > >>> that
> > >>>>>> much.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports
> > >>>> summarizing
> > >>>>>>>>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew
> > >> where
> > >>>> it
> > >>>>>> was
> > >>>>>>>>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that
> > >>> NetCAT
> > >>>>> was
> > >>>>>>>>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for
> > >>>> themselves
> > >>>>>> how
> > >>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact,
> > >>> suits
> > >>>>> me
> > >>>>>>>>> better :)
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Michal
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> > >> netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists,
> > >> visit:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=bav55yn4OB_qRWlPyg-3eJxbD1-VSSiM3rlfkRSmb04&s=F_nGJasZFETJzbaEQ5jlaHNRp9JVwzJm8vodU36w0M4&e=
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > >>>>>>
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=OLXzSoP2kiRq-Dn69obkWr5NkRkOZUDIx6QFHxbtaWE&s=2tZUbz7_GDIGgaH0xgUYF19uodGj5PSUotAd-WpNpDc&e=
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
>
>
AW: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
But the Survey is only multiple choice, I can remember a Survey back in the days of NetBeans 7 and I think 8 too, where we have some textfields where users can add most their most wanted Features and at the end of the Survey, after collecting the data, there was a overview of that.
I did the Survey but did I miss such fields or Questions?
Cheers
Chris
Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 2. November 2018 13:39
An: netcat
Betreff: Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Makes perfect sense, use the survey to indicate which issues you're most
concerned about.
Gj
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:53 PM Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>
wrote:
> I would suggest to identify then with BLOCKER severity.
>
> -Jirka
>
> Dne 2.11.2018 v 12:46 Geertjan Wielenga napsal(a):
> > Sure, fair enough, the problem though is how to identify them in the
> issue
> > tracker.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:33 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <
> tmthv2@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> That defeats purpose of issue tracker. This information needs to be
> readily
> >> available on report or query, not dispersed emails.
> >>
> >> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г., 7:30 Geertjan Wielenga
> >> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid:
> >>
> >>> Maybe one way to approach this would be to ask everyone in NetCAT to
> >> list 3
> >>> of the issues they filed that they'd prioritize for fixing over all
> >> others,
> >>> regardless of whether they're blockers, i.e., simply 'my world would
> be a
> >>> good deal better if the following 3 were to be fixed', just add them
> as a
> >>> response in this thread.
> >>>
> >>> Gj
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:28 PM Alexander Romanenko <
> >>> alex@alex-tech-adventures.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I was setting "affected version" to 10 for my issues - it looked like
> >>> that
> >>>> was the label for this iteration of testing, so could maybe search by
> >>> that
> >>>> too.
> >>>>
> >>>> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 7:18, Geertjan Wielenga
> >>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Well, I'd like to see all the issues that have been filed during the
> >>>> NetCAT
> >>>>> program.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'd also somehow like to see which ones really need to be fixed,
> >> which
> >>>> ones
> >>>>> can no longer be reproduced in 10-vc2 (maybe everyone in NetCAT can
> >>> check
> >>>>> whether all their issues can still be reproduced in NetCAT and then
> >>> add a
> >>>>> 'NetCAT 10' label so we can collect then all), which ones need to be
> >>>>> prioritized, etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gj
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:28 AM Jiří Kovalský <
> >> jiri.kovalsky@oracle.com
> >>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Why do we need such filter?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Jirka
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dne 2.11.2018 v 04:20 Leo Donahue napsal(a):
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using
> >> JIRA
> >>>>> labels
> >>>>>>> for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> >>>>>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the
> >>>>> NetCAT
> >>>>>>>> program?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Gj
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> here are my thoughts.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay
> >>> attention
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are
> >>> gone.
> >>>>> With
> >>>>>>>>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address
> >> each
> >>>>>>>>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev
> >>>> team
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>> you.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people
> >> who
> >>>> have
> >>>>>> no
> >>>>>>>>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP,
> >>>> HTML,
> >>>>>>>> C/C++).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> >>>>>>>>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works.
> >>> Good
> >>>>> news
> >>>>>>>>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying
> >> to
> >>>>>>>>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and
> >>> setting
> >>>>>> their
> >>>>>>>>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do
> >> that?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated
> >>> to
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no
> >>>>>> dedicated
> >>>>>>>>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for
> >>>>> developing
> >>>>>>>>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't
> >>>> raise
> >>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply,
> >> the
> >>>>>>>> landscape
> >>>>>>>>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset
> >>> for
> >>>>>>>>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their
> >>>> tribe
> >>>>>>>>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing
> >>> the
> >>>>>> work
> >>>>>>>>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding
> >> about
> >>>>>>>>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious
> >>>> ones
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If
> >>> these
> >>>>> do
> >>>>>>>>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program
> >>>> coordinators
> >>>>>>>>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT
> >> participants
> >>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are
> >>>> still
> >>>>>>>>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time
> >>> that
> >>>>>> much.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports
> >>>> summarizing
> >>>>>>>>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew
> >> where
> >>>> it
> >>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that
> >>> NetCAT
> >>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for
> >>>> themselves
> >>>>>> how
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact,
> >>> suits
> >>>>> me
> >>>>>>>>> better :)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Michal
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists,
> >> visit:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=bav55yn4OB_qRWlPyg-3eJxbD1-VSSiM3rlfkRSmb04&s=F_nGJasZFETJzbaEQ5jlaHNRp9JVwzJm8vodU36w0M4&e=
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >>>>>>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=OLXzSoP2kiRq-Dn69obkWr5NkRkOZUDIx6QFHxbtaWE&s=2tZUbz7_GDIGgaH0xgUYF19uodGj5PSUotAd-WpNpDc&e=
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Makes perfect sense, use the survey to indicate which issues you're most
concerned about.
Gj
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:53 PM Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>
wrote:
> I would suggest to identify then with BLOCKER severity.
>
> -Jirka
>
> Dne 2.11.2018 v 12:46 Geertjan Wielenga napsal(a):
> > Sure, fair enough, the problem though is how to identify them in the
> issue
> > tracker.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:33 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <
> tmthv2@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> That defeats purpose of issue tracker. This information needs to be
> readily
> >> available on report or query, not dispersed emails.
> >>
> >> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г., 7:30 Geertjan Wielenga
> >> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid:
> >>
> >>> Maybe one way to approach this would be to ask everyone in NetCAT to
> >> list 3
> >>> of the issues they filed that they'd prioritize for fixing over all
> >> others,
> >>> regardless of whether they're blockers, i.e., simply 'my world would
> be a
> >>> good deal better if the following 3 were to be fixed', just add them
> as a
> >>> response in this thread.
> >>>
> >>> Gj
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:28 PM Alexander Romanenko <
> >>> alex@alex-tech-adventures.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I was setting "affected version" to 10 for my issues - it looked like
> >>> that
> >>>> was the label for this iteration of testing, so could maybe search by
> >>> that
> >>>> too.
> >>>>
> >>>> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 7:18, Geertjan Wielenga
> >>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Well, I'd like to see all the issues that have been filed during the
> >>>> NetCAT
> >>>>> program.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'd also somehow like to see which ones really need to be fixed,
> >> which
> >>>> ones
> >>>>> can no longer be reproduced in 10-vc2 (maybe everyone in NetCAT can
> >>> check
> >>>>> whether all their issues can still be reproduced in NetCAT and then
> >>> add a
> >>>>> 'NetCAT 10' label so we can collect then all), which ones need to be
> >>>>> prioritized, etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gj
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:28 AM Jiří Kovalský <
> >> jiri.kovalsky@oracle.com
> >>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Why do we need such filter?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Jirka
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dne 2.11.2018 v 04:20 Leo Donahue napsal(a):
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using
> >> JIRA
> >>>>> labels
> >>>>>>> for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> >>>>>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the
> >>>>> NetCAT
> >>>>>>>> program?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Gj
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> here are my thoughts.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay
> >>> attention
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are
> >>> gone.
> >>>>> With
> >>>>>>>>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address
> >> each
> >>>>>>>>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev
> >>>> team
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>> you.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people
> >> who
> >>>> have
> >>>>>> no
> >>>>>>>>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP,
> >>>> HTML,
> >>>>>>>> C/C++).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> >>>>>>>>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works.
> >>> Good
> >>>>> news
> >>>>>>>>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying
> >> to
> >>>>>>>>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and
> >>> setting
> >>>>>> their
> >>>>>>>>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do
> >> that?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated
> >>> to
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no
> >>>>>> dedicated
> >>>>>>>>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for
> >>>>> developing
> >>>>>>>>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't
> >>>> raise
> >>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply,
> >> the
> >>>>>>>> landscape
> >>>>>>>>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset
> >>> for
> >>>>>>>>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their
> >>>> tribe
> >>>>>>>>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing
> >>> the
> >>>>>> work
> >>>>>>>>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding
> >> about
> >>>>>>>>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious
> >>>> ones
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If
> >>> these
> >>>>> do
> >>>>>>>>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program
> >>>> coordinators
> >>>>>>>>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT
> >> participants
> >>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are
> >>>> still
> >>>>>>>>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time
> >>> that
> >>>>>> much.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports
> >>>> summarizing
> >>>>>>>>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew
> >> where
> >>>> it
> >>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that
> >>> NetCAT
> >>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for
> >>>> themselves
> >>>>>> how
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact,
> >>> suits
> >>>>> me
> >>>>>>>>> better :)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Michal
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists,
> >> visit:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=bav55yn4OB_qRWlPyg-3eJxbD1-VSSiM3rlfkRSmb04&s=F_nGJasZFETJzbaEQ5jlaHNRp9JVwzJm8vodU36w0M4&e=
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >>>>>>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=OLXzSoP2kiRq-Dn69obkWr5NkRkOZUDIx6QFHxbtaWE&s=2tZUbz7_GDIGgaH0xgUYF19uodGj5PSUotAd-WpNpDc&e=
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>.
I would suggest to identify then with BLOCKER severity.
-Jirka
Dne 2.11.2018 v 12:46 Geertjan Wielenga napsal(a):
> Sure, fair enough, the problem though is how to identify them in the issue
> tracker.
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:33 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> That defeats purpose of issue tracker. This information needs to be readily
>> available on report or query, not dispersed emails.
>>
>> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г., 7:30 Geertjan Wielenga
>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid:
>>
>>> Maybe one way to approach this would be to ask everyone in NetCAT to
>> list 3
>>> of the issues they filed that they'd prioritize for fixing over all
>> others,
>>> regardless of whether they're blockers, i.e., simply 'my world would be a
>>> good deal better if the following 3 were to be fixed', just add them as a
>>> response in this thread.
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:28 PM Alexander Romanenko <
>>> alex@alex-tech-adventures.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was setting "affected version" to 10 for my issues - it looked like
>>> that
>>>> was the label for this iteration of testing, so could maybe search by
>>> that
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>>> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 7:18, Geertjan Wielenga
>>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I'd like to see all the issues that have been filed during the
>>>> NetCAT
>>>>> program.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd also somehow like to see which ones really need to be fixed,
>> which
>>>> ones
>>>>> can no longer be reproduced in 10-vc2 (maybe everyone in NetCAT can
>>> check
>>>>> whether all their issues can still be reproduced in NetCAT and then
>>> add a
>>>>> 'NetCAT 10' label so we can collect then all), which ones need to be
>>>>> prioritized, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gj
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:28 AM Jiří Kovalský <
>> jiri.kovalsky@oracle.com
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do we need such filter?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Jirka
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dne 2.11.2018 v 04:20 Leo Donahue napsal(a):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using
>> JIRA
>>>>> labels
>>>>>>> for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
>>>>>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the
>>>>> NetCAT
>>>>>>>> program?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gj
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> here are my thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay
>>> attention
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are
>>> gone.
>>>>> With
>>>>>>>>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address
>> each
>>>>>>>>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev
>>>> team
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people
>> who
>>>> have
>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP,
>>>> HTML,
>>>>>>>> C/C++).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
>>>>>>>>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works.
>>> Good
>>>>> news
>>>>>>>>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying
>> to
>>>>>>>>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and
>>> setting
>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do
>> that?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated
>>> to
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no
>>>>>> dedicated
>>>>>>>>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for
>>>>> developing
>>>>>>>>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't
>>>> raise
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply,
>> the
>>>>>>>> landscape
>>>>>>>>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset
>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their
>>>> tribe
>>>>>>>>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing
>>> the
>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding
>> about
>>>>>>>>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious
>>>> ones
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If
>>> these
>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program
>>>> coordinators
>>>>>>>>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT
>> participants
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are
>>>> still
>>>>>>>>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time
>>> that
>>>>>> much.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports
>>>> summarizing
>>>>>>>>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew
>> where
>>>> it
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that
>>> NetCAT
>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for
>>>> themselves
>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact,
>>> suits
>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> better :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists,
>> visit:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=bav55yn4OB_qRWlPyg-3eJxbD1-VSSiM3rlfkRSmb04&s=F_nGJasZFETJzbaEQ5jlaHNRp9JVwzJm8vodU36w0M4&e=
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=OLXzSoP2kiRq-Dn69obkWr5NkRkOZUDIx6QFHxbtaWE&s=2tZUbz7_GDIGgaH0xgUYF19uodGj5PSUotAd-WpNpDc&e=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Sure, fair enough, the problem though is how to identify them in the issue
tracker.
Gj
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:33 PM Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> That defeats purpose of issue tracker. This information needs to be readily
> available on report or query, not dispersed emails.
>
> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г., 7:30 Geertjan Wielenga
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid:
>
> > Maybe one way to approach this would be to ask everyone in NetCAT to
> list 3
> > of the issues they filed that they'd prioritize for fixing over all
> others,
> > regardless of whether they're blockers, i.e., simply 'my world would be a
> > good deal better if the following 3 were to be fixed', just add them as a
> > response in this thread.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:28 PM Alexander Romanenko <
> > alex@alex-tech-adventures.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I was setting "affected version" to 10 for my issues - it looked like
> > that
> > > was the label for this iteration of testing, so could maybe search by
> > that
> > > too.
> > >
> > > пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 7:18, Geertjan Wielenga
> > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
> > >
> > > > Well, I'd like to see all the issues that have been filed during the
> > > NetCAT
> > > > program.
> > > >
> > > > I'd also somehow like to see which ones really need to be fixed,
> which
> > > ones
> > > > can no longer be reproduced in 10-vc2 (maybe everyone in NetCAT can
> > check
> > > > whether all their issues can still be reproduced in NetCAT and then
> > add a
> > > > 'NetCAT 10' label so we can collect then all), which ones need to be
> > > > prioritized, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Gj
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:28 AM Jiří Kovalský <
> jiri.kovalsky@oracle.com
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Why do we need such filter?
> > > > >
> > > > > -Jirka
> > > > >
> > > > > Dne 2.11.2018 v 04:20 Leo Donahue napsal(a):
> > > > >
> > > > > > Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using
> JIRA
> > > > labels
> > > > > > for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the
> > > > NetCAT
> > > > > >> program?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Gj
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> here are my thoughts.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay
> > attention
> > > > to
> > > > > >>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are
> > gone.
> > > > With
> > > > > >>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address
> each
> > > > > >>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev
> > > team
> > > > is
> > > > > >>>> you.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people
> who
> > > have
> > > > > no
> > > > > >>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP,
> > > HTML,
> > > > > >> C/C++).
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> > > > > >>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works.
> > Good
> > > > news
> > > > > >>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying
> to
> > > > > >>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and
> > setting
> > > > > their
> > > > > >>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do
> that?
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > >>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no
> > > > > dedicated
> > > > > >>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for
> > > > developing
> > > > > >>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't
> > > raise
> > > > > this
> > > > > >>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply,
> the
> > > > > >> landscape
> > > > > >>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset
> > for
> > > > > >>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their
> > > tribe
> > > > > >>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing
> > the
> > > > > work
> > > > > >>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding
> about
> > > > > >>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious
> > > ones
> > > > to
> > > > > >>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If
> > these
> > > > do
> > > > > >>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program
> > > coordinators
> > > > > >>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT
> participants
> > > with
> > > > > >>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are
> > > still
> > > > > >>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time
> > that
> > > > > much.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports
> > > summarizing
> > > > > >>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew
> where
> > > it
> > > > > was
> > > > > >>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that
> > NetCAT
> > > > was
> > > > > >>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for
> > > themselves
> > > > > how
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact,
> > suits
> > > > me
> > > > > >>> better :)
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Michal
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > > > > >>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists,
> visit:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=bav55yn4OB_qRWlPyg-3eJxbD1-VSSiM3rlfkRSmb04&s=F_nGJasZFETJzbaEQ5jlaHNRp9JVwzJm8vodU36w0M4&e=
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>.
I have to agree with Sasha. I understand Geertjan what you want but
that's what we have the CA survey for. Everyone can point out which
issues are the "world-would-be-better" ones for them. We just need to
wait for the responses.
And as for "netcat-10" labels I am afraid it's not a good idea too. Or
are we going to ignore bugs which were not filed by NetCAT participants,
because we consider them less qualified/relevant? I hope not.
-Jirka
Dne 2.11.2018 v 12:32 Sasha Alexander Romanenko napsal(a):
> That defeats purpose of issue tracker. This information needs to be readily
> available on report or query, not dispersed emails.
>
> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г., 7:30 Geertjan Wielenga
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid:
>
>> Maybe one way to approach this would be to ask everyone in NetCAT to list 3
>> of the issues they filed that they'd prioritize for fixing over all others,
>> regardless of whether they're blockers, i.e., simply 'my world would be a
>> good deal better if the following 3 were to be fixed', just add them as a
>> response in this thread.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:28 PM Alexander Romanenko <
>> alex@alex-tech-adventures.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I was setting "affected version" to 10 for my issues - it looked like
>> that
>>> was the label for this iteration of testing, so could maybe search by
>> that
>>> too.
>>>
>>> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 7:18, Geertjan Wielenga
>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
>>>
>>>> Well, I'd like to see all the issues that have been filed during the
>>> NetCAT
>>>> program.
>>>>
>>>> I'd also somehow like to see which ones really need to be fixed, which
>>> ones
>>>> can no longer be reproduced in 10-vc2 (maybe everyone in NetCAT can
>> check
>>>> whether all their issues can still be reproduced in NetCAT and then
>> add a
>>>> 'NetCAT 10' label so we can collect then all), which ones need to be
>>>> prioritized, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Gj
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:28 AM Jiří Kovalský <jiri.kovalsky@oracle.com
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why do we need such filter?
>>>>>
>>>>> -Jirka
>>>>>
>>>>> Dne 2.11.2018 v 04:20 Leo Donahue napsal(a):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using JIRA
>>>> labels
>>>>>> for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
>>>>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the
>>>> NetCAT
>>>>>>> program?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gj
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> here are my thoughts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay
>> attention
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are
>> gone.
>>>> With
>>>>>>>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
>>>>>>>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev
>>> team
>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who
>>> have
>>>>> no
>>>>>>>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP,
>>> HTML,
>>>>>>> C/C++).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
>>>>>>>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works.
>> Good
>>>> news
>>>>>>>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
>>>>>>>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and
>> setting
>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated
>> to
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no
>>>>> dedicated
>>>>>>>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for
>>>> developing
>>>>>>>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't
>>> raise
>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the
>>>>>>> landscape
>>>>>>>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset
>> for
>>>>>>>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their
>>> tribe
>>>>>>>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing
>> the
>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
>>>>>>>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious
>>> ones
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If
>> these
>>>> do
>>>>>>>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program
>>> coordinators
>>>>>>>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants
>>> with
>>>>>>>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are
>>> still
>>>>>>>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time
>> that
>>>>> much.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports
>>> summarizing
>>>>>>>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where
>>> it
>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that
>> NetCAT
>>>> was
>>>>>>>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for
>>> themselves
>>>>> how
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact,
>> suits
>>>> me
>>>>>>>> better :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michal
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=bav55yn4OB_qRWlPyg-3eJxbD1-VSSiM3rlfkRSmb04&s=F_nGJasZFETJzbaEQ5jlaHNRp9JVwzJm8vodU36w0M4&e=
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=vd1SQn1050lrjcmkR-eODJtdR5CO5fuYZc61j9gy-x8&s=V7Ez70GswmyfkNqsNucwyEpSOKLLpWMHBAcSBi4-n2M&e=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Sasha Alexander Romanenko <tm...@gmail.com>.
That defeats purpose of issue tracker. This information needs to be readily
available on report or query, not dispersed emails.
пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г., 7:30 Geertjan Wielenga
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid:
> Maybe one way to approach this would be to ask everyone in NetCAT to list 3
> of the issues they filed that they'd prioritize for fixing over all others,
> regardless of whether they're blockers, i.e., simply 'my world would be a
> good deal better if the following 3 were to be fixed', just add them as a
> response in this thread.
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:28 PM Alexander Romanenko <
> alex@alex-tech-adventures.com> wrote:
>
> > I was setting "affected version" to 10 for my issues - it looked like
> that
> > was the label for this iteration of testing, so could maybe search by
> that
> > too.
> >
> > пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 7:18, Geertjan Wielenga
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
> >
> > > Well, I'd like to see all the issues that have been filed during the
> > NetCAT
> > > program.
> > >
> > > I'd also somehow like to see which ones really need to be fixed, which
> > ones
> > > can no longer be reproduced in 10-vc2 (maybe everyone in NetCAT can
> check
> > > whether all their issues can still be reproduced in NetCAT and then
> add a
> > > 'NetCAT 10' label so we can collect then all), which ones need to be
> > > prioritized, etc.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:28 AM Jiří Kovalský <jiri.kovalsky@oracle.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Why do we need such filter?
> > > >
> > > > -Jirka
> > > >
> > > > Dne 2.11.2018 v 04:20 Leo Donahue napsal(a):
> > > >
> > > > > Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using JIRA
> > > labels
> > > > > for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the
> > > NetCAT
> > > > >> program?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Gj
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> here are my thoughts.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay
> attention
> > > to
> > > > >>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are
> gone.
> > > With
> > > > >>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
> > > > >>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev
> > team
> > > is
> > > > >>>> you.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who
> > have
> > > > no
> > > > >>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP,
> > HTML,
> > > > >> C/C++).
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> > > > >>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works.
> Good
> > > news
> > > > >>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
> > > > >>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and
> setting
> > > > their
> > > > >>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated
> to
> > > the
> > > > >>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no
> > > > dedicated
> > > > >>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for
> > > developing
> > > > >>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't
> > raise
> > > > this
> > > > >>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the
> > > > >> landscape
> > > > >>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset
> for
> > > > >>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their
> > tribe
> > > > >>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing
> the
> > > > work
> > > > >>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
> > > > >>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious
> > ones
> > > to
> > > > >>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If
> these
> > > do
> > > > >>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program
> > coordinators
> > > > >>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants
> > with
> > > > >>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are
> > still
> > > > >>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time
> that
> > > > much.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports
> > summarizing
> > > > >>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where
> > it
> > > > was
> > > > >>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that
> NetCAT
> > > was
> > > > >>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for
> > themselves
> > > > how
> > > > >> to
> > > > >>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact,
> suits
> > > me
> > > > >>> better :)
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Michal
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > > > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > > >>>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=bav55yn4OB_qRWlPyg-3eJxbD1-VSSiM3rlfkRSmb04&s=F_nGJasZFETJzbaEQ5jlaHNRp9JVwzJm8vodU36w0M4&e=
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Maybe one way to approach this would be to ask everyone in NetCAT to list 3
of the issues they filed that they'd prioritize for fixing over all others,
regardless of whether they're blockers, i.e., simply 'my world would be a
good deal better if the following 3 were to be fixed', just add them as a
response in this thread.
Gj
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:28 PM Alexander Romanenko <
alex@alex-tech-adventures.com> wrote:
> I was setting "affected version" to 10 for my issues - it looked like that
> was the label for this iteration of testing, so could maybe search by that
> too.
>
> пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 7:18, Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
>
> > Well, I'd like to see all the issues that have been filed during the
> NetCAT
> > program.
> >
> > I'd also somehow like to see which ones really need to be fixed, which
> ones
> > can no longer be reproduced in 10-vc2 (maybe everyone in NetCAT can check
> > whether all their issues can still be reproduced in NetCAT and then add a
> > 'NetCAT 10' label so we can collect then all), which ones need to be
> > prioritized, etc.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:28 AM Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Why do we need such filter?
> > >
> > > -Jirka
> > >
> > > Dne 2.11.2018 v 04:20 Leo Donahue napsal(a):
> > >
> > > > Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using JIRA
> > labels
> > > > for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the
> > NetCAT
> > > >> program?
> > > >>
> > > >> Gj
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> here are my thoughts.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay attention
> > to
> > > >>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are gone.
> > With
> > > >>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
> > > >>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev
> team
> > is
> > > >>>> you.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who
> have
> > > no
> > > >>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP,
> HTML,
> > > >> C/C++).
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> > > >>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works. Good
> > news
> > > >>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
> > > >>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and setting
> > > their
> > > >>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated to
> > the
> > > >>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no
> > > dedicated
> > > >>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for
> > developing
> > > >>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't
> raise
> > > this
> > > >>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the
> > > >> landscape
> > > >>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset for
> > > >>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their
> tribe
> > > >>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing the
> > > work
> > > >>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
> > > >>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious
> ones
> > to
> > > >>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If these
> > do
> > > >>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program
> coordinators
> > > >>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants
> with
> > > >>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are
> still
> > > >>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time that
> > > much.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports
> summarizing
> > > >>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where
> it
> > > was
> > > >>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that NetCAT
> > was
> > > >>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for
> themselves
> > > how
> > > >> to
> > > >>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact, suits
> > me
> > > >>> better :)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Michal
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > > >>>
> > > >>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > >>>
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=bav55yn4OB_qRWlPyg-3eJxbD1-VSSiM3rlfkRSmb04&s=F_nGJasZFETJzbaEQ5jlaHNRp9JVwzJm8vodU36w0M4&e=
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Alexander Romanenko <al...@alex-tech-adventures.com>.
I was setting "affected version" to 10 for my issues - it looked like that
was the label for this iteration of testing, so could maybe search by that
too.
пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 7:18, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>:
> Well, I'd like to see all the issues that have been filed during the NetCAT
> program.
>
> I'd also somehow like to see which ones really need to be fixed, which ones
> can no longer be reproduced in 10-vc2 (maybe everyone in NetCAT can check
> whether all their issues can still be reproduced in NetCAT and then add a
> 'NetCAT 10' label so we can collect then all), which ones need to be
> prioritized, etc.
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:28 AM Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Why do we need such filter?
> >
> > -Jirka
> >
> > Dne 2.11.2018 v 04:20 Leo Donahue napsal(a):
> >
> > > Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using JIRA
> labels
> > > for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the
> NetCAT
> > >> program?
> > >>
> > >> Gj
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
> > >>>
> > >>> here are my thoughts.
> > >>>
> > >>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay attention
> to
> > >>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are gone.
> With
> > >>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
> > >>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev team
> is
> > >>>> you.
> > >>>
> > >>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who have
> > no
> > >>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP, HTML,
> > >> C/C++).
> > >>>
> > >>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> > >>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works. Good
> news
> > >>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
> > >>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and setting
> > their
> > >>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
> > >>>
> > >>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated to
> the
> > >>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
> > >>>
> > >>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no
> > dedicated
> > >>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for
> developing
> > >>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't raise
> > this
> > >>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the
> > >> landscape
> > >>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> > >>>
> > >>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset for
> > >>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their tribe
> > >>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing the
> > work
> > >>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
> > >>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious ones
> to
> > >>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If these
> do
> > >>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program coordinators
> > >>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants with
> > >>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
> > >>>
> > >>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are still
> > >>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time that
> > much.
> > >>>
> > >>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports summarizing
> > >>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where it
> > was
> > >>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that NetCAT
> was
> > >>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for themselves
> > how
> > >> to
> > >>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact, suits
> me
> > >>> better :)
> > >>>
> > >>> Michal
> > >>>
> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > >>>
> > >>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > >>>
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=bav55yn4OB_qRWlPyg-3eJxbD1-VSSiM3rlfkRSmb04&s=F_nGJasZFETJzbaEQ5jlaHNRp9JVwzJm8vodU36w0M4&e=
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Well, I'd like to see all the issues that have been filed during the NetCAT
program.
I'd also somehow like to see which ones really need to be fixed, which ones
can no longer be reproduced in 10-vc2 (maybe everyone in NetCAT can check
whether all their issues can still be reproduced in NetCAT and then add a
'NetCAT 10' label so we can collect then all), which ones need to be
prioritized, etc.
Gj
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:28 AM Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>
wrote:
> Why do we need such filter?
>
> -Jirka
>
> Dne 2.11.2018 v 04:20 Leo Donahue napsal(a):
>
> > Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using JIRA labels
> > for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the NetCAT
> >> program?
> >>
> >> Gj
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
> >>>
> >>> here are my thoughts.
> >>>
> >>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
> >>>>
> >>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay attention to
> >>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are gone. With
> >>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
> >>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev team is
> >>>> you.
> >>>
> >>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who have
> no
> >>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP, HTML,
> >> C/C++).
> >>>
> >>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> >>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works. Good news
> >>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
> >>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and setting
> their
> >>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
> >>>
> >>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated to the
> >>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
> >>>
> >>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no
> dedicated
> >>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for developing
> >>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't raise
> this
> >>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the
> >> landscape
> >>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> >>>
> >>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> >>>>
> >>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset for
> >>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their tribe
> >>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing the
> work
> >>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
> >>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious ones to
> >>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If these do
> >>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program coordinators
> >>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants with
> >>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
> >>>
> >>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are still
> >>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time that
> much.
> >>>
> >>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports summarizing
> >>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where it
> was
> >>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that NetCAT was
> >>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for themselves
> how
> >> to
> >>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact, suits me
> >>> better :)
> >>>
> >>> Michal
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >>>
> >>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >>>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=bav55yn4OB_qRWlPyg-3eJxbD1-VSSiM3rlfkRSmb04&s=F_nGJasZFETJzbaEQ5jlaHNRp9JVwzJm8vodU36w0M4&e=
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>.
Why do we need such filter?
-Jirka
Dne 2.11.2018 v 04:20 Leo Donahue napsal(a):
> Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using JIRA labels
> for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the NetCAT
>> program?
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
>>>
>>> here are my thoughts.
>>>
>>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
>>>>
>>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay attention to
>>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are gone. With
>>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
>>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev team is
>>>> you.
>>>
>>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who have no
>>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP, HTML,
>> C/C++).
>>>
>>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
>>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works. Good news
>>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
>>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and setting their
>>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
>>>
>>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated to the
>>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
>>>
>>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no dedicated
>>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for developing
>>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't raise this
>>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the
>> landscape
>>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
>>>
>>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
>>>>
>>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset for
>>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their tribe
>>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing the work
>>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
>>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious ones to
>>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If these do
>>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program coordinators
>>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants with
>>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
>>>
>>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are still
>>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time that much.
>>>
>>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports summarizing
>>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where it was
>>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that NetCAT was
>>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for themselves how
>> to
>>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact, suits me
>>> better :)
>>>
>>> Michal
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>>>
>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=bav55yn4OB_qRWlPyg-3eJxbD1-VSSiM3rlfkRSmb04&s=F_nGJasZFETJzbaEQ5jlaHNRp9JVwzJm8vodU36w0M4&e=
>>>
>>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Leo Donahue <do...@gmail.com>.
Good question, I was wondering if we should have been using JIRA labels
for NetCAT 9 and 10 issues. That would allow you to filter.
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 5:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the NetCAT
> program?
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
>
> > Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
> >
> > here are my thoughts.
> >
> > > 1. Tickets in strange state
> > >
> > > The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay attention to
> > > bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are gone. With
> > > the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
> > > issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev team is
> > > you.
> >
> > I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who have no
> > idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP, HTML,
> C/C++).
> >
> > > Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> > > misunderstanding how open source software development works. Good news
> > > is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
> > > reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and setting their
> > > status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
> >
> > I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated to the
> > process) that we should focus on testing only.
> >
> > But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no dedicated
> > developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for developing
> > NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't raise this
> > kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the
> landscape
> > of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> >
> > > 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> > >
> > > I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset for
> > > NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their tribe
> > > members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing the work
> > > load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
> > > incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious ones to
> > > the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If these do
> > > not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program coordinators
> > > which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants with
> > > impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
> >
> > OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are still
> > taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time that much.
> >
> > I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports summarizing
> > activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where it was
> > standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that NetCAT was
> > targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for themselves how
> to
> > update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact, suits me
> > better :)
> >
> > Michal
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Thanks for the work in identifying the most serious problems coming out of
NetCAT.
My feeling is we're not going to be able to fix these specific items for
this specific release, most seem to be difficult to reproduce, we should
explicitly list these, and we should continue to monitor them and
prioritize them for fixing -- we do have developers working on adding new
features and fixing bugs, the question is always going to be how to
effectively identify items to be fixed and how to match those items with
the developers experienced in those specific related areas.
Gj
On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 1:51 PM Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>
wrote:
> I don't think we need to distinguish NetCAT issues from others but if
> you want to see all issues which respondents of Community Acceptance
> 10.0 survey warned about as potential blockers, you can use this query:
>
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=affectedVersion%20%3D%2010.0%20AND%20labels%20%3D%20ca_survey
>
> -Jirka
>
> Dne 3.11.2018 v 22:54 Laszlo Kishalmi napsal(a):
>
> > Can we have the ... part?
> >
> > BTW, Could we just label the issues with NetCat (or maybe NetCat11) in
> > the future NetCat processes?
> >
> > I would like to add a public filter on NetCat issues and include in my
> > dashboard:
> >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__issues.apache.org_jira_secure_Dashboard.jspa-3FselectPageId-3D12332552&d=DwIDaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=axQs2Z8er0K1DDXtt-dxbdoKdKwdZwRdBStdtOHvzQk&s=k9FezNjZeHVcw5X4cKGWxKGowJMR3q6BNTDhZoJtExU&e=
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/2/18 1:50 AM, michal@owsiak.org wrote:
> >> I guess, something like this, would be pretty close if we don't have
> >> tags and are still willing to filter NetCAT based bugs:
> >>
> >>
> >> project = NETBEANS and createdDate >= '2018/10/8' and createdDate <=
> >> '2018/10/31' and reporter in ('mkowsiak', 'jkovalsky', 'geertjan',
> >> 'alextech', ...) ORDER BY created DESC
> >>
> >>
> >> Michal
> >>
> >>> Dnia 1 listopada 2018 o 12:10 Geertjan Wielenga
> >>> <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID> napisał(a):
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the NetCAT
> >>> program?
> >>>
> >>> Gj
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
> >>>>
> >>>> here are my thoughts.
> >>>>
> >>>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay attention to
> >>>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are gone.
> With
> >>>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
> >>>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev team
> is
> >>>>> you.
> >>>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who
> >>>> have no
> >>>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP, HTML,
> >>>> C/C++).
> >>>>
> >>>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> >>>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works. Good
> news
> >>>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
> >>>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and setting
> >>>>> their
> >>>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
> >>>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated to the
> >>>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
> >>>>
> >>>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no
> >>>> dedicated
> >>>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for
> developing
> >>>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't raise
> >>>> this
> >>>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the
> >>>> landscape
> >>>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> >>>>
> >>>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset for
> >>>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their tribe
> >>>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing the
> >>>>> work
> >>>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
> >>>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious ones
> to
> >>>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If these do
> >>>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program coordinators
> >>>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants with
> >>>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
> >>>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are still
> >>>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time that
> >>>> much.
> >>>>
> >>>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports summarizing
> >>>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where it
> >>>> was
> >>>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that NetCAT was
> >>>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for themselves
> >>>> how to
> >>>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact, suits me
> >>>> better :)
> >>>>
> >>>> Michal
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >>>>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIDaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=axQs2Z8er0K1DDXtt-dxbdoKdKwdZwRdBStdtOHvzQk&s=OkFhh1AbLG_R01KevSOALDwGgU2aUVtLV8O-heHap68&e=
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >>
> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIDaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=axQs2Z8er0K1DDXtt-dxbdoKdKwdZwRdBStdtOHvzQk&s=OkFhh1AbLG_R01KevSOALDwGgU2aUVtLV8O-heHap68&e=
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIDaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=axQs2Z8er0K1DDXtt-dxbdoKdKwdZwRdBStdtOHvzQk&s=OkFhh1AbLG_R01KevSOALDwGgU2aUVtLV8O-heHap68&e=
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>.
I don't think we need to distinguish NetCAT issues from others but if
you want to see all issues which respondents of Community Acceptance
10.0 survey warned about as potential blockers, you can use this query:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=affectedVersion%20%3D%2010.0%20AND%20labels%20%3D%20ca_survey
-Jirka
Dne 3.11.2018 v 22:54 Laszlo Kishalmi napsal(a):
> Can we have the ... part?
>
> BTW, Could we just label the issues with NetCat (or maybe NetCat11) in
> the future NetCat processes?
>
> I would like to add a public filter on NetCat issues and include in my
> dashboard:
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__issues.apache.org_jira_secure_Dashboard.jspa-3FselectPageId-3D12332552&d=DwIDaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=axQs2Z8er0K1DDXtt-dxbdoKdKwdZwRdBStdtOHvzQk&s=k9FezNjZeHVcw5X4cKGWxKGowJMR3q6BNTDhZoJtExU&e=
>
>
>
> On 11/2/18 1:50 AM, michal@owsiak.org wrote:
>> I guess, something like this, would be pretty close if we don't have
>> tags and are still willing to filter NetCAT based bugs:
>>
>>
>> project = NETBEANS and createdDate >= '2018/10/8' and createdDate <=
>> '2018/10/31' and reporter in ('mkowsiak', 'jkovalsky', 'geertjan',
>> 'alextech', ...) ORDER BY created DESC
>>
>>
>> Michal
>>
>>> Dnia 1 listopada 2018 o 12:10 Geertjan Wielenga
>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID> napisał(a):
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the NetCAT
>>> program?
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
>>>>
>>>> here are my thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
>>>>>
>>>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay attention to
>>>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are gone. With
>>>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
>>>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev team is
>>>>> you.
>>>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who
>>>> have no
>>>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP, HTML,
>>>> C/C++).
>>>>
>>>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
>>>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works. Good news
>>>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
>>>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and setting
>>>>> their
>>>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
>>>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated to the
>>>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
>>>>
>>>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no
>>>> dedicated
>>>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for developing
>>>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't raise
>>>> this
>>>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the
>>>> landscape
>>>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
>>>>
>>>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
>>>>>
>>>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset for
>>>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their tribe
>>>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing the
>>>>> work
>>>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
>>>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious ones to
>>>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If these do
>>>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program coordinators
>>>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants with
>>>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
>>>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are still
>>>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time that
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports summarizing
>>>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where it
>>>> was
>>>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that NetCAT was
>>>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for themselves
>>>> how to
>>>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact, suits me
>>>> better :)
>>>>
>>>> Michal
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>>>>
>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIDaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=axQs2Z8er0K1DDXtt-dxbdoKdKwdZwRdBStdtOHvzQk&s=OkFhh1AbLG_R01KevSOALDwGgU2aUVtLV8O-heHap68&e=
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Mailing-2Blists&d=DwIDaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=axQs2Z8er0K1DDXtt-dxbdoKdKwdZwRdBStdtOHvzQk&s=OkFhh1AbLG_R01KevSOALDwGgU2aUVtLV8O-heHap68&e=
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
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Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>.
Can we have the ... part?
BTW, Could we just label the issues with NetCat (or maybe NetCat11) in
the future NetCat processes?
I would like to add a public filter on NetCat issues and include in my
dashboard:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=12332552
On 11/2/18 1:50 AM, michal@owsiak.org wrote:
> I guess, something like this, would be pretty close if we don't have tags and are still willing to filter NetCAT based bugs:
>
>
> project = NETBEANS and createdDate >= '2018/10/8' and createdDate <= '2018/10/31' and reporter in ('mkowsiak', 'jkovalsky', 'geertjan', 'alextech', ...) ORDER BY created DESC
>
>
> Michal
>
>> Dnia 1 listopada 2018 o 12:10 Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID> napisał(a):
>>
>>
>> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the NetCAT
>> program?
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
>>>
>>> here are my thoughts.
>>>
>>>> 1. Tickets in strange state
>>>>
>>>> The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay attention to
>>>> bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are gone. With
>>>> the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
>>>> issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev team is
>>>> you.
>>> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who have no
>>> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP, HTML, C/C++).
>>>
>>>> Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
>>>> misunderstanding how open source software development works. Good news
>>>> is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
>>>> reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and setting their
>>>> status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
>>> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated to the
>>> process) that we should focus on testing only.
>>>
>>> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no dedicated
>>> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for developing
>>> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't raise this
>>> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the landscape
>>> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
>>>
>>>> 2. Tribe leaders are useless
>>>>
>>>> I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset for
>>>> NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their tribe
>>>> members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing the work
>>>> load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
>>>> incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious ones to
>>>> the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If these do
>>>> not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program coordinators
>>>> which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants with
>>>> impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
>>> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are still
>>> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time that much.
>>>
>>> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports summarizing
>>> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where it was
>>> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that NetCAT was
>>> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for themselves how to
>>> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact, suits me
>>> better :)
>>>
>>> Michal
>>>
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>>> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>>>
>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>
>>>
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Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by mi...@owsiak.org.
I guess, something like this, would be pretty close if we don't have tags and are still willing to filter NetCAT based bugs:
project = NETBEANS and createdDate >= '2018/10/8' and createdDate <= '2018/10/31' and reporter in ('mkowsiak', 'jkovalsky', 'geertjan', 'alextech', ...) ORDER BY created DESC
Michal
> Dnia 1 listopada 2018 o 12:10 Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID> napisał(a):
>
>
> Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the NetCAT
> program?
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
>
> > Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
> >
> > here are my thoughts.
> >
> > > 1. Tickets in strange state
> > >
> > > The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay attention to
> > > bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are gone. With
> > > the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
> > > issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev team is
> > > you.
> >
> > I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who have no
> > idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP, HTML, C/C++).
> >
> > > Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> > > misunderstanding how open source software development works. Good news
> > > is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
> > > reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and setting their
> > > status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
> >
> > I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated to the
> > process) that we should focus on testing only.
> >
> > But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no dedicated
> > developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for developing
> > NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't raise this
> > kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the landscape
> > of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
> >
> > > 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> > >
> > > I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset for
> > > NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their tribe
> > > members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing the work
> > > load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
> > > incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious ones to
> > > the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If these do
> > > not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program coordinators
> > > which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants with
> > > impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
> >
> > OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are still
> > taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time that much.
> >
> > I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports summarizing
> > activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where it was
> > standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that NetCAT was
> > targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for themselves how to
> > update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact, suits me
> > better :)
> >
> > Michal
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: netcat-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
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Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Is there a way to get a list of all the issues filed through the NetCAT
program?
Gj
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:36 AM <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
> Hello Jiri, hello Alexander,
>
> here are my thoughts.
>
> > 1. Tickets in strange state
> >
> > The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay attention to
> > bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are gone. With
> > the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each
> > issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev team is
> > you.
>
> I am afraid I support Alexander here. I bet there are people who have no
> idea how to code using Java, yet still use NetBeans (e.g. PHP, HTML, C/C++).
>
> > Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own
> > misunderstanding how open source software development works. Good news
> > is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to
> > reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and setting their
> > status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?
>
> I also got impression (from what I have read on pages dedicated to the
> process) that we should focus on testing only.
>
> But, at the same time, I agree with you, Jiri. If there are no dedicated
> developers anymore (I mean, people who are actually paid for developing
> NetBeans), then, solving issues lays on volunteers and I won't raise this
> kind of objections (not tackling the issues in Jira). Simply, the landscape
> of NetBeans has changed and I need to adapt to it.
>
> > 2. Tribe leaders are useless
> >
> > I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset for
> > NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their tribe
> > members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing the work
> > load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about
> > incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious ones to
> > the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If these do
> > not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program coordinators
> > which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants with
> > impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.
>
> OK, maybe it's still happening, maybe all these activities are still
> taking place, but, to be honest, I haven't seen that this time that much.
>
> I remember older editions of NetCAT, with weekly reports summarizing
> activities, providing information to whole team, so it knew where it was
> standing at any, given, time. So, this time, I thought that NetCAT was
> targeted more towards solo players who want to decide for themselves how to
> update docs, what to choose for testing, etc. Which, in fact, suits me
> better :)
>
> Michal
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: netcat-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>