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Posted to users@maven.apache.org by Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com> on 2005/05/01 15:36:27 UTC
Maven 1.1 will require JDK 1.4 to run
Hi,
I wanted to make sure users are aware of this - some of the new code
being introduced to Maven 1.1 and 2.0 requires a 1.4 JVM to run. This
does not mean that it can not build for anything else - you can still
target 1.1, and can even compile using a completely external JDK IIRC.
This is just a matter of what JVM runs Maven itself.
This still seems to be a problem for some. If anyone is in this
position, can you please shed some light on what the requirement is?
That is if you -can not- install a 1.4 JDK to run Maven with. I'm
thinking this can only be because one is not available for a
particular operation system, of which I am not aware of any at this
point.
I don't see the position on this changing as it requires a fair bit of
code change for little benefit, but I would like to know the impact.
Thanks,
Brett
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Re: Maven 1.1 will require JDK 1.4 to run
Posted by Jeffrey Bonevich <je...@bonevich.com>.
I do not think it is an inconvenience. IBM is dropping all support for
WAS 4 in very short order (I believe it is the end of April, which means
yesterday). Java itself is supporting 1.5 as the current production
JDK. I think Maven has keep moving forward with the times. Unlike
many OSS initiatives, I am surprised that Maven has supported
"unsupported" configurations as long as it has.
jeff
Brett Porter wrote:
>I knew Websphere would come up :)
>
>I understand how inconvenient it is - it took enough time with 20
>developers. But how do you manage even upgrading Maven for all those
>developers? Do they share any development servers or is it local? Will
>the situation be the same in 6 months?
>
>What I'm trying to gauge here is level of inconvenience vs flat out
>impossible. If it were a brand new installation, would it still be
>such a problem?
>
>There are parts of Maven that use NIO, the new Exception paradigm and
>things like LinkedHashMap that are what require the new JVM which
>would be quite difficult to shift back to 1.3.
>
>Thanks for your feedback.
>
>- Brett
>
>On 5/1/05, Thomas Van de Velde <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Brett,
>>
>> I am using M1 to build for Websphere 4, which runs on JDK 1.3. Asking the
>>50+ developers in my project to install another JDK, which is not supported
>>by the AS, doesn't seem reasonable to me, certainly if it's for a minor
>>upgrade. In my opinion, you shouldn't introduce this type of major
>>modifications in a minor release. Leave that for M2... I know there are
>>many other projects out there that are still using 1.3. Adding another JDK
>>is often not that staightforward. You have to have a very good reason to do
>>so.
>>
>> Thomas.
>>
>>
>>On 5/1/05, Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I wanted to make sure users are aware of this - some of the new code
>>>being introduced to Maven 1.1 and 2.0 requires a 1.4 JVM to run. This
>>>does not mean that it can not build for anything else - you can still
>>>target 1.1, and can even compile using a completely external JDK IIRC.
>>>This is just a matter of what JVM runs Maven itself.
>>>
>>>This still seems to be a problem for some. If anyone is in this
>>>position, can you please shed some light on what the requirement is?
>>>That is if you -can not- install a 1.4 JDK to run Maven with. I'm
>>>thinking this can only be because one is not available for a
>>>particular operation system, of which I am not aware of any at this
>>>point.
>>>
>>>I don't see the position on this changing as it requires a fair bit of
>>>code change for little benefit, but I would like to know the impact.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Brett
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>
>>>
>>users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>
>>
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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>
>
>
>
--
jeff bonevich
mailto: jeff@bonevich.com
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Arthur C. Clarke
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to
build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying
to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
Rich Cook
"All programmers are playwrights and all computers are lousy actors."
Unknown
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Re: Maven 1.1 will require JDK 1.4 to run
Posted by Thomas Van de Velde <th...@gmail.com>.
It was meant for the list indeed (I still have to get used to my new gmail
account ;-)
On 5/1/05, Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure if you intended this to be on the list... I'd rather have
> this discussion there. Especially since you are replying to someone
> else's mail :) I get this problem with fellow gmail users all the time
> - you need to use reply to all.
>
> On 5/2/05, Thomas Van de Velde <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > But I am not dropping support for the applications that are working just
> > fine on WS4.
>
> That's fine. Maven 1.0.2, I presume, is working fine on WAS4 too... so
> you are welcome to continue using it.
>
> > Spring is supported from 1.3 up to 1.5
>
> Spring is a framework, not an application. That's a big difference.
>
> > My point is, a minor release should not introduce major modifications.
>
> This is not so much a major modification - we're not breaking any
> scripts or builds, just dropping support for a platform that we don't
> have the bandwidth to maintain and test.
>
> Sorry if this has struck a nerve, but please understand where I am
> coming from here. I am trying to keep Maven moving for the majority of
> the community. As I said, I'm willing to take assistance to keep it
> 1.3 compatible.
>
> Cheers,
> Brett
>
Re: Maven 1.1 will require JDK 1.4 to run
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com>.
I'm not sure if you intended this to be on the list... I'd rather have
this discussion there. Especially since you are replying to someone
else's mail :) I get this problem with fellow gmail users all the time
- you need to use reply to all.
On 5/2/05, Thomas Van de Velde <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> But I am not dropping support for the applications that are working just
> fine on WS4.
That's fine. Maven 1.0.2, I presume, is working fine on WAS4 too... so
you are welcome to continue using it.
> Spring is supported from 1.3 up to 1.5
Spring is a framework, not an application. That's a big difference.
> My point is, a minor release should not introduce major modifications.
This is not so much a major modification - we're not breaking any
scripts or builds, just dropping support for a platform that we don't
have the bandwidth to maintain and test.
Sorry if this has struck a nerve, but please understand where I am
coming from here. I am trying to keep Maven moving for the majority of
the community. As I said, I'm willing to take assistance to keep it
1.3 compatible.
Cheers,
Brett
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Re: Maven 1.1 will require JDK 1.4 to run
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com>.
Hi Thomas,
I see your point, but I think it is only fair that we can only be
expected to support platforms the vendors themselves support. In the
case of WAS4, Jeffrey is right - it ended yesterday.
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=180&context=SSEQTP&q1=end+of+life&uid=swg21202901&loc=en_US&cs=utf-8&lang=en
Sun does support 1.3 until 2006 if you already have a support contract:
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/index.jsp
But I think because the EOL has started, there are no new patch releases made.
The changes made are in libraries used by both the Maven core and plugins.
We will see how we go with the first beta. If there is a backlash,
then it can be considered, but we are pressed enough for time as it is
- do you really want to wait an additional couple of months to get 1.3
support?
If anyone would like to volunteer to test and make necessary changes,
I'm more than happy for that to be the case, btw.
Cheers,
Brett
On 5/2/05, Thomas Van de Velde <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Brett,
>
> Everyone in the team pulls the same copy of Maven from CVS. Some of the
> applications are running just fine on 1.3 so there are no plans/need to
> upgrade to 1.4 I think the situation will stay like this for at least
> another 6 months. Are those changes that require 1.4 related to the core of
> Maven or is it for plugins? I think it's dangerous to have this new
> requirements because it may block a significant part of M1 users from
> getting the latest fixes/minor ehancements. As Vincent already pointed out,
> a lot of people will continue to use M1. I add to that that; a lot of
> people will want to continue to use M1 on 1.3.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Thomas
>
> On 5/1/05, Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I knew Websphere would come up :)
> >
> > I understand how inconvenient it is - it took enough time with 20
> > developers. But how do you manage even upgrading Maven for all those
> > developers? Do they share any development servers or is it local? Will
> > the situation be the same in 6 months?
> >
> > What I'm trying to gauge here is level of inconvenience vs flat out
> > impossible. If it were a brand new installation, would it still be
> > such a problem?
> >
> > There are parts of Maven that use NIO, the new Exception paradigm and
> > things like LinkedHashMap that are what require the new JVM which
> > would be quite difficult to shift back to 1.3.
> >
> > Thanks for your feedback.
> >
> > - Brett
> >
> > On 5/1/05, Thomas Van de Velde < thomas.vdvelde@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Brett,
> > >
> > > I am using M1 to build for Websphere 4, which runs on JDK 1.3. Asking
> the
> > > 50+ developers in my project to install another JDK, which is not
> supported
> > > by the AS, doesn't seem reasonable to me, certainly if it's for a minor
> > > upgrade. In my opinion, you shouldn't introduce this type of major
> > > modifications in a minor release. Leave that for M2... I know there
> are
> > > many other projects out there that are still using 1.3. Adding another
> JDK
> > > is often not that staightforward. You have to have a very good reason
> to do
> > > so.
> > >
> > > Thomas.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5/1/05, Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I wanted to make sure users are aware of this - some of the new code
> > > > being introduced to Maven 1.1 and 2.0 requires a 1.4 JVM to run. This
> > > > does not mean that it can not build for anything else - you can still
> > > > target 1.1, and can even compile using a completely external JDK IIRC.
> > > > This is just a matter of what JVM runs Maven itself.
> > > >
> > > > This still seems to be a problem for some. If anyone is in this
> > > > position, can you please shed some light on what the requirement is?
> > > > That is if you -can not- install a 1.4 JDK to run Maven with. I'm
> > > > thinking this can only be because one is not available for a
> > > > particular operation system, of which I am not aware of any at this
> > > > point.
> > > >
> > > > I don't see the position on this changing as it requires a fair bit of
> > > > code change for little benefit, but I would like to know the impact.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Brett
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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Re: Maven 1.1 will require JDK 1.4 to run
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com>.
I knew Websphere would come up :)
I understand how inconvenient it is - it took enough time with 20
developers. But how do you manage even upgrading Maven for all those
developers? Do they share any development servers or is it local? Will
the situation be the same in 6 months?
What I'm trying to gauge here is level of inconvenience vs flat out
impossible. If it were a brand new installation, would it still be
such a problem?
There are parts of Maven that use NIO, the new Exception paradigm and
things like LinkedHashMap that are what require the new JVM which
would be quite difficult to shift back to 1.3.
Thanks for your feedback.
- Brett
On 5/1/05, Thomas Van de Velde <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brett,
>
> I am using M1 to build for Websphere 4, which runs on JDK 1.3. Asking the
> 50+ developers in my project to install another JDK, which is not supported
> by the AS, doesn't seem reasonable to me, certainly if it's for a minor
> upgrade. In my opinion, you shouldn't introduce this type of major
> modifications in a minor release. Leave that for M2... I know there are
> many other projects out there that are still using 1.3. Adding another JDK
> is often not that staightforward. You have to have a very good reason to do
> so.
>
> Thomas.
>
>
> On 5/1/05, Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I wanted to make sure users are aware of this - some of the new code
> > being introduced to Maven 1.1 and 2.0 requires a 1.4 JVM to run. This
> > does not mean that it can not build for anything else - you can still
> > target 1.1, and can even compile using a completely external JDK IIRC.
> > This is just a matter of what JVM runs Maven itself.
> >
> > This still seems to be a problem for some. If anyone is in this
> > position, can you please shed some light on what the requirement is?
> > That is if you -can not- install a 1.4 JDK to run Maven with. I'm
> > thinking this can only be because one is not available for a
> > particular operation system, of which I am not aware of any at this
> > point.
> >
> > I don't see the position on this changing as it requires a fair bit of
> > code change for little benefit, but I would like to know the impact.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brett
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: Maven 1.1 will require JDK 1.4 to run
Posted by Thomas Van de Velde <th...@gmail.com>.
Brett,
I am using M1 to build for Websphere 4, which runs on JDK 1.3. Asking the
50+ developers in my project to install another JDK, which is not supported
by the AS, doesn't seem reasonable to me, certainly if it's for a minor
upgrade. In my opinion, you shouldn't introduce this type of major
modifications in a minor release. Leave that for M2... I know there are many
other projects out there that are still using 1.3. Adding another JDK is
often not that staightforward. You have to have a very good reason to do so.
Thomas.
On 5/1/05, Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I wanted to make sure users are aware of this - some of the new code
> being introduced to Maven 1.1 and 2.0 requires a 1.4 JVM to run. This
> does not mean that it can not build for anything else - you can still
> target 1.1, and can even compile using a completely external JDK IIRC.
> This is just a matter of what JVM runs Maven itself.
>
> This still seems to be a problem for some. If anyone is in this
> position, can you please shed some light on what the requirement is?
> That is if you -can not- install a 1.4 JDK to run Maven with. I'm
> thinking this can only be because one is not available for a
> particular operation system, of which I am not aware of any at this
> point.
>
> I don't see the position on this changing as it requires a fair bit of
> code change for little benefit, but I would like to know the impact.
>
> Thanks,
> Brett
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
>