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Posted to dev@lenya.apache.org by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org> on 2004/12/21 00:10:29 UTC
gump results
gump is starting to be useful for lenya. over the past couple weeks, i
worked on the gump build, and it is now in a state where the remaining
compile errors indicate real problems.
http://brutus.apache.org/gump/public/lenya/lenya/gump_work/build_lenya_lenya.html
ironically, gump is pointing out that we have incompatibilities againt
cocoon-2.2dev in the recently added XSPPrecompileWrapper. cocoon-2.2
removed the CocoonComponentManager class.
while this is useful information to have, it brings up the question if
compatibility with cocoon-2.2 (cocoon-trunk) is a goal of lenya-trunk.
going forward, we could set it up so that lenya-1.2.x gets built againt
the cocoon 2.1 branch, and lenya-trunk against cocoon-trunk.
if we decide to do this, we might want to inform the cocoon community of
our desire to have cocoon-2.1 gump runs as well. i am sure forrest would
like to see this too.
also, one day soon the unit tests will work again, and we can have them
included in the gump run too.
what do you guys think:
* should lenya-trunk compile against cocoon-trunk ?
* should we have different gump runs?
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
COO, Wyona Content Management Solutions http://wyona.com
Apache Lenya http://lenya.apache.org
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
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Re: gump results
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>
>>
>> XSP is completely obsolete when it comes to business logic, so it
>> shouldn't be used for usecases as there is a high danger of misuse.
>
>
>
> that's what I was trying to say. But re business logic IMHO Javascript
> might be cool for rapid prototyping, but in the long run one will end up
> with the same problems as any other such language.
Yes, we should not use Javascript for business logic. The flowscript
handles only the page flow, business logic is delegated to Java classes.
-- Andreas
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Re: gump results
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>
> XSP is completely obsolete when it comes to business logic, so it
> shouldn't be used for usecases as there is a high danger of misuse.
that's what I was trying to say. But re business logic IMHO Javascript
might be cool for rapid prototyping, but in the long run one will end up
with the same problems as any other such language.
Michi
>
>
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lenya.apache.org
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>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: gump results
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>
>> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>
>
>> once we remove xsp from lenya, we have no need for that
>> XSPPrecompileWrapper anymore.
>
>
>
> I don't think we should remove XSP from lenya completely. XSP is not
> that bad if used "correctly". The same "shitty" code can emerge with
> JavaScript
> and every other language actually. Or do I misunderstand something?
IMO XSP is quite useful for generating views with some minor dynamic
parts (like the Lenya menus). If you put all Java code into logicsheets,
you can even decouple them from the Java API, but this requires
discipline.
XSP is completely obsolete when it comes to business logic, so it
shouldn't be used for usecases as there is a high danger of misuse.
-- Andreas
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Re: gump results
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> well, just keep aware that XSP is not just about usecases, but also about
> Lenya menus, etc.
i understand, i will keep the menus for last (they are the most complex)
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
COO, Wyona Content Management Solutions http://wyona.com
Apache Lenya http://lenya.apache.org
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
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Re: gump results
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
>
> i will start to convert xsp to flow / jx, and then we can see if there
> is an ongoing need to keep xsp (i dont think so, but we will see)
well, just keep aware that XSP is not just about usecases, but also about
Lenya menus, etc.
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: gump results
Posted by Jean Pierre LeJacq <jp...@quoininc.com>.
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
> > I don't think we should remove XSP from lenya completely. XSP is not
> > that bad if used "correctly". The same "shitty" code can emerge with
> > JavaScript
> > and every other language actually. Or do I misunderstand something?
>
> xsp is not testable. we need better seperation of concerns. i'm not
> going to rehash the xsp vs flow discussion here (see cocoon archives),
> but it lends the way to reduce the strong coupling in the xsp to lenya
> internals.
>
> i will start to convert xsp to flow / jx, and then we can see if there
> is an ongoing need to keep xsp (i dont think so, but we will see)
Oh boy, I strongly agree here with Gregor. I don't see any long
term role for XSP. While Michael is right that if you are careful,
you can write clean code, its basic premise of intermixing
processing with presentation just makes it fragile and difficult to
test.
My 2 cents.
--
JP
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Re: gump results
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> I don't think we should remove XSP from lenya completely. XSP is not
> that bad if used "correctly". The same "shitty" code can emerge with
> JavaScript
> and every other language actually. Or do I misunderstand something?
xsp is not testable. we need better seperation of concerns. i'm not
going to rehash the xsp vs flow discussion here (see cocoon archives),
but it lends the way to reduce the strong coupling in the xsp to lenya
internals.
i will start to convert xsp to flow / jx, and then we can see if there
is an ongoing need to keep xsp (i dont think so, but we will see)
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
COO, Wyona Content Management Solutions http://wyona.com
Apache Lenya http://lenya.apache.org
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
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Re: gump results
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> once we remove xsp from lenya, we have no need for that
> XSPPrecompileWrapper anymore.
I don't think we should remove XSP from lenya completely. XSP is not
that bad if used "correctly". The same "shitty" code can emerge with
JavaScript
and every other language actually. Or do I misunderstand something?
Michi
>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: gump results
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> * should lenya-trunk compile against cocoon-trunk ?
>
>
> -1
>
> IMO it should compile against the Cocoon version it is
> supposed to run with. But as long as it still compiles with
> 2.1, we should remove dependencies to deprecated stuff to
> reduce the upgrade barrier for 2.2.
ok. in that case we should have 3 gump runs:
lenya 1.2 <-> cocoon 2.1
lenya 1.4 <-> cocoon 2.1
lenya 1.4 <-> cocoon 2.2
that will catch all problems.
the only reason (currently) why the compile against 2.2 fails is that
XSPPrecompileWrapper uses cocoon internals. once we remove xsp from
lenya, we have no need for that XSPPrecompileWrapper anymore.
let me know if this makes sense, and i can inquire with cocoon if they
could make a 2.1 build available on gump.
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
COO, Wyona Content Management Solutions http://wyona.com
Apache Lenya http://lenya.apache.org
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
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Re: gump results
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
[...]
> what do you guys think:
>
> * should lenya-trunk compile against cocoon-trunk ?
-1
IMO it should compile against the Cocoon version it is
supposed to run with. But as long as it still compiles with
2.1, we should remove dependencies to deprecated stuff to
reduce the upgrade barrier for 2.2.
> * should we have different gump runs?
IMO Lenya 1.2 and trunk should compile against Cocoon 2.1.
Does this mean "different gump runs"?
-- Andreas
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