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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by Ted Ross <tr...@redhat.com> on 2009/06/29 23:30:01 UTC
License question
I would like to add a new m4 macro definition (AC_PROG_SWIG) to the CPP
build directory but it has the following license text. I understand
that GPLv2 is not compatible with the Apache license but I don't know if
the stated exceptions make it ok to incorporate this source.
Can someone with more legal knowledge that I have weigh in on this?
Thanks,
-Ted
# LICENSE
#
# Copyright (c) 2008 Sebastian Huber <se...@web.de>
# Copyright (c) 2008 Alan W. Irwin <ir...@beluga.phys.uvic.ca>
# Copyright (c) 2008 Rafael Laboissiere <ra...@laboissiere.net>
# Copyright (c) 2008 Andrew Collier <co...@ukzn.ac.za>
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
# under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the
# Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your
# option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
# WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General
# Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along
# with this program. If not, see <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/>.
#
# As a special exception, the respective Autoconf Macro's copyright owner
# gives unlimited permission to copy, distribute and modify the configure
# scripts that are the output of Autoconf when processing the Macro. You
# need not follow the terms of the GNU General Public License when using
# or distributing such scripts, even though portions of the text of the
# Macro appear in them. The GNU General Public License (GPL) does govern
# all other use of the material that constitutes the Autoconf Macro.
#
# This special exception to the GPL applies to versions of the Autoconf
# Macro released by the Autoconf Archive. When you make and distribute a
# modified version of the Autoconf Macro, you may extend this special
# exception to the GPL to apply to your modified version as well.
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Re: License question
Posted by Nathan Beyer <nd...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 12:51 AM, Niclas Hedhman<ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:30 AM, Ted Ross<tr...@redhat.com> wrote:
>> I would like to add a new m4 macro definition (AC_PROG_SWIG) to the CPP
>> build directory but it has the following license text. I understand that
>> GPLv2 is not compatible with the Apache license but I don't know if the
>> stated exceptions make it ok to incorporate this source.
>>
>> Can someone with more legal knowledge that I have weigh in on this?
>
> IANAL, nor do I remember if this has been discussed in the past.
> My interpretation is roughly; If your project is listing M4 as a
> system requirement, i.e. similar to what the JDK/JRE is for a Java
> application, and if your M4 macro is brand new, I don't see how GPL of
> M4 could force your M4 macro into GPL. If you are modifying another
> person's macro, then the exception clauses you mention would kick in,
> i.e. "it depends".
>
>> # LICENSE
>> #
>
> Where was this text from?
> I think it would help if you could explain to us mere mortals how the
> M4 process work, in case we are talking code generation, inheritance
> and other messy circumstances.
M4 is a macro language itself [1] and is a standard part of
UNIX/POSIX. On Linux-based systems, you'll usually get GNU M4, which
is an interpreter of the language and provides some proprietary
extensions to the language. There are implementations on the various
BSDs.
Generally, you write an M4 macro to generate another text file that
repeats similar text over and over. I've seen it used in an SMTP
server for generating the overly complex config files - tweak the
macro file with the domain name, generate the config with the M4
processor.
I would think the above assessment is correct - M4 tools shouldn't be
an issue, but if the M4 macro/code is licensed in an incompatible way,
then there may be a concern.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_(computer_language)
>
>
> Cheers
> --
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
>
> I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
> I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
> I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
>
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Re: License question
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:30 AM, Ted Ross<tr...@redhat.com> wrote:
> I would like to add a new m4 macro definition (AC_PROG_SWIG) to the CPP
> build directory but it has the following license text. I understand that
> GPLv2 is not compatible with the Apache license but I don't know if the
> stated exceptions make it ok to incorporate this source.
>
> Can someone with more legal knowledge that I have weigh in on this?
IANAL, nor do I remember if this has been discussed in the past.
My interpretation is roughly; If your project is listing M4 as a
system requirement, i.e. similar to what the JDK/JRE is for a Java
application, and if your M4 macro is brand new, I don't see how GPL of
M4 could force your M4 macro into GPL. If you are modifying another
person's macro, then the exception clauses you mention would kick in,
i.e. "it depends".
> # LICENSE
> #
Where was this text from?
I think it would help if you could explain to us mere mortals how the
M4 process work, in case we are talking code generation, inheritance
and other messy circumstances.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: License question
Posted by Aidan Skinner <ai...@gmail.com>.
2009/6/30 Ján Sáreník <js...@redhat.com>:
> Hi Ted!
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 05:52:32PM -0400, Andrew Stitcher wrote:
>> If we wanted to include just the generated configure script then it
>> looks to me like that is ok, but the m4 macros aren't
>
> IMHO you do not need to include it in the source at all
> (merely during the autoreconf process) and as Andrew says, the
> generated configure is OK.
It's the checking it into svn part that I think is likely to be
problematic, it's the licensce most autoconf uses and that's pretty
widely adopted across the ASF. While the generated configure is ok, I
think the macro itself is probably a category X licensce like GNU
Classpath - see http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html.
> But if you are still unsure, have a look at non-GPL alternatives, e.g.
> http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/branches/1.4.x/build/ac-macros/swig.m4
> (this one is under Subversion v1 license*).
I couldn't find any reference to this in the legal-discuss archives,
and it's not on the 3rd party licensce page.
I think xerces does SWIG things, but I'm not sure what macros they use.
- Aidan (IANAL, TINLA, talk to legal-discuss)
--
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Re: License question
Posted by Ján Sáreník <js...@redhat.com>.
Hi Ted!
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 05:52:32PM -0400, Andrew Stitcher wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 17:30 -0400, Ted Ross wrote:
> > I would like to add a new m4 macro definition (AC_PROG_SWIG) to the CPP
> > build directory but it has the following license text. I understand
> > that GPLv2 is not compatible with the Apache license but I don't know if
> > the stated exceptions make it ok to incorporate this source.
>
> IANAL! But looking at the license below I think that the exceptions only
> apply to scripts generated by the m4 macros. This being the case I think
> that the macros themselves are licensed purely via GPLv2.
>
> If we wanted to include just the generated configure script then it
> looks to me like that is ok, but the m4 macros aren't
IMHO you do not need to include it in the source at all
(merely during the autoreconf process) and as Andrew says, the
generated configure is OK.
But if you are still unsure, have a look at non-GPL alternatives, e.g.
http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/branches/1.4.x/build/ac-macros/swig.m4
(this one is under Subversion v1 license*).
Jasan
* http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/branches/1.4.x/COPYING
--
Red Hat Czech, MRG Quality Assurance Associate (not a lawyer)
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Re: License question
Posted by Andrew Stitcher <as...@redhat.com>.
On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 17:30 -0400, Ted Ross wrote:
> I would like to add a new m4 macro definition (AC_PROG_SWIG) to the CPP
> build directory but it has the following license text. I understand
> that GPLv2 is not compatible with the Apache license but I don't know if
> the stated exceptions make it ok to incorporate this source.
>
IANAL! But looking at the license below I think that the exceptions only
apply to scripts generated by the m4 macros. This being the case I think
that the macros themselves are licensed purely via GPLv2.
If we wanted to include just the generated configure script then it
looks to me like that is ok, but the m4 macros aren't
> Can someone with more legal knowledge that I have weigh in on this?
As I said IANAL and this "legal" advice is worth what you paid for
it :-)
Andrew
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Ted
>
> # LICENSE
> #
> # Copyright (c) 2008 Sebastian Huber <se...@web.de>
> # Copyright (c) 2008 Alan W. Irwin <ir...@beluga.phys.uvic.ca>
> # Copyright (c) 2008 Rafael Laboissiere <ra...@laboissiere.net>
> # Copyright (c) 2008 Andrew Collier <co...@ukzn.ac.za>
> #
> # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
> # under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the
> # Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your
> # option) any later version.
> #
> # This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
> # WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
> # MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General
> # Public License for more details.
> #
> # You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along
> # with this program. If not, see <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/>.
> #
> # As a special exception, the respective Autoconf Macro's copyright owner
> # gives unlimited permission to copy, distribute and modify the configure
> # scripts that are the output of Autoconf when processing the Macro. You
> # need not follow the terms of the GNU General Public License when using
> # or distributing such scripts, even though portions of the text of the
> # Macro appear in them. The GNU General Public License (GPL) does govern
> # all other use of the material that constitutes the Autoconf Macro.
> #
> # This special exception to the GPL applies to versions of the Autoconf
> # Macro released by the Autoconf Archive. When you make and distribute a
> # modified version of the Autoconf Macro, you may extend this special
> # exception to the GPL to apply to your modified version as well.
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Re: License question
Posted by Henri Yandell <hy...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Justin
Erenkrantz<ju...@erenkrantz.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:30 PM, Ted Ross<tr...@redhat.com> wrote:
>> I would like to add a new m4 macro definition (AC_PROG_SWIG) to the CPP
>> build directory but it has the following license text. I understand that
>> GPLv2 is not compatible with the Apache license but I don't know if the
>> stated exceptions make it ok to incorporate this source.
>>
>> Can someone with more legal knowledge that I have weigh in on this?
>
> httpd/APR uses autoconf macros that are under similar terms. In
> short, no worries here - feel free to use the macro in qpid. --
Yeah, if httpd/APR do it then it must be good. :) *teases Justin*
Anyway... this is listed as a Category A license on
http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html.
"# FSF autoconf license"
Hen
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Re: License question
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:30 PM, Ted Ross<tr...@redhat.com> wrote:
> I would like to add a new m4 macro definition (AC_PROG_SWIG) to the CPP
> build directory but it has the following license text. I understand that
> GPLv2 is not compatible with the Apache license but I don't know if the
> stated exceptions make it ok to incorporate this source.
>
> Can someone with more legal knowledge that I have weigh in on this?
httpd/APR uses autoconf macros that are under similar terms. In
short, no worries here - feel free to use the macro in qpid. --
justin
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Re: License question
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:30 PM, Ted Ross<tr...@redhat.com> wrote:
> I would like to add a new m4 macro definition (AC_PROG_SWIG) to the CPP
> build directory but it has the following license text. I understand that
> GPLv2 is not compatible with the Apache license but I don't know if the
> stated exceptions make it ok to incorporate this source.
>
> Can someone with more legal knowledge that I have weigh in on this?
httpd/APR uses autoconf macros that are under similar terms. In
short, no worries here - feel free to use the macro in qpid. --
justin
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Re: License question
Posted by Aidan Skinner <ai...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Ted Ross<tr...@redhat.com> wrote:
> I would like to add a new m4 macro definition (AC_PROG_SWIG) to the CPP
> build directory but it has the following license text. I understand that
> GPLv2 is not compatible with the Apache license but I don't know if the
> stated exceptions make it ok to incorporate this source.
>
> Can someone with more legal knowledge that I have weigh in on this?
I suspect that's probably not ok, but probably best to take it to legal-discuss?
- Aidan
--
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"A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire
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Re: License question
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:30 AM, Ted Ross<tr...@redhat.com> wrote:
> I would like to add a new m4 macro definition (AC_PROG_SWIG) to the CPP
> build directory but it has the following license text. I understand that
> GPLv2 is not compatible with the Apache license but I don't know if the
> stated exceptions make it ok to incorporate this source.
>
> Can someone with more legal knowledge that I have weigh in on this?
IANAL, nor do I remember if this has been discussed in the past.
My interpretation is roughly; If your project is listing M4 as a
system requirement, i.e. similar to what the JDK/JRE is for a Java
application, and if your M4 macro is brand new, I don't see how GPL of
M4 could force your M4 macro into GPL. If you are modifying another
person's macro, then the exception clauses you mention would kick in,
i.e. "it depends".
> # LICENSE
> #
Where was this text from?
I think it would help if you could explain to us mere mortals how the
M4 process work, in case we are talking code generation, inheritance
and other messy circumstances.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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RE: License question
Posted by Steve Huston <sh...@riverace.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Ross [mailto:tross@redhat.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:30 PM
> To: dev@qpid.apache.org
> Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org
> Subject: License question
>
>
> I would like to add a new m4 macro definition (AC_PROG_SWIG)
> to the CPP build directory but it has the following license text.
> I understand that GPLv2 is not compatible with the Apache license
> but I don't know if the stated exceptions make it ok to incorporate
> this source.
If we speed up the cmake transition, we can make this issue moot...
I believe cmake has swig macros also.
-Steve
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