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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> on 2010/12/12 12:34:02 UTC
[PROPOSAL] Graduation of River
Incubator PMC,
The River podling has come a long way over the last 1.5 year or so,
from one foot in the grave after Sun's resources were withdrawn
completely, individuals moved on to other things and an apathy among
the independents who felt hopelessness, to a very active and vibrant
community. Perhaps the 'near death' experience was good, as it left a
vacuum that a handful of individuals filled with enormous energy and
turned the prospects around. Today, very little of that past
negativism is present, and serious progress has been made on the
technical front as well, even though it is a large and complex
codebase. More importantly however, is to seen the turn around from a
'corporate business' to a true community, with AFAIK all active
contributors from different walks of life.
The River community has just completed a vote in favor of
"Graduation", incl all Mentors (Jukka, me and Benson), and I would
like to proceed with a Board resolution proposal for the January
meeting to form the Apache River top level project.
In the course of the discussion leading up to this vote, there was 2
issues being discussed;
a) Is another release needed? Answer was we don't see that necessary.
There is work on a release at the moment, that may or may not come out
before the January meeting, and the Mentors sees that work as
sufficient, together with previous release.
b) This upcoming release still has com.sun packages in it. Since this
is primarily a fully compatible release, it has been agreed that this
release will allow com.sun packages, and that the road map has an
action item of changing those to org.apache.river for the next major
release, which for many other reasons is likely to introduce some
incompatibilities.
Before starting the vote, I am writing this to see if anyone has any
additional concerns or topics to be discussed prior to graduation.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/3xugrbk
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/24svnvk
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Graduation of River
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 2:05 AM, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Sim IJskes wrote:
>
>> The implementation that resides in com.sun could be renamed into the
>> org.apache.river.impl namespace without causing to much conversion
>> activity with the users of river. I believe there are strong feelings
>> about keeping to the original specifications.
>
> So are you saying that River will work towards eliminating com.sun, but does
> not feel that it needs to be done now?
It was clearly a misunderstanding. The current work is largely to put
all the loose bits into a coherent order, effectively creating a solid
QA environment (kudos!!), a non-trivial effort. So, the upcoming
release is all about getting into a consistent state, and doing so
with only bug fixes foud during QA setups. Hence, as Sim explains,
package names are seen too disruptive for that effort, as well as the
nature of the upcoming release is "drop-in replacement, bug fixes
only", no impact on users.
But, importantly, the community has committed itself to remove the
com.sun namespace as soon as that release is out.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/3xugrbk
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/24svnvk
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Graduation of River
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 12/13/2010 07:05 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> The implementation that resides in com.sun could be renamed into the
>> org.apache.river.impl namespace without causing to much conversion
>> activity with the users of river. I believe there are strong feelings
>> about keeping to the original specifications.
>
> So are you saying that River will work towards eliminating com.sun, but does
> not feel that it needs to be done now?
Whe have queued the rename as the first milestone after the graduation
(also included this in our roadmap).
We are currently working on a release containing the QA harness, and
using the QA harness produced some bugs that are currently worked on by
two committers Peter Firmstone and Patricia Shanahan. IIRC the delayed
rename was specifically requested in order to allow a merge of work
currently in a branch and/or personal workspace.
The rename will disrupt the trunk for some time, and make merging
outstanding branches complicated.
>> I know this is the prerogative of the IPMC to determine this, but your
>> remarks deviate a bit from the consensus formed on river-dev IMHO,
>> should we go back to the drawingboard and discuss your proposal within
>> the PPMC?
>
> Can you clarify? What remarks deviated from the consenus? Are you
> referring to the graduation proposal, or just the comments regarding
> com.sun?
An overly cautious response from my side. The consensus was that we
would rename com.sun.jini to org.apache.river.impl. And on first reading
it looked like a rename from com.sun.jini to net.jini was announced. It
wasn't. Apologies.
Gr. Sim
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RE: [PROPOSAL] Graduation of River
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Sim IJskes wrote:
> The implementation that resides in com.sun could be renamed into the
> org.apache.river.impl namespace without causing to much conversion
> activity with the users of river. I believe there are strong feelings
> about keeping to the original specifications.
So are you saying that River will work towards eliminating com.sun, but does
not feel that it needs to be done now?
> I know this is the prerogative of the IPMC to determine this, but your
> remarks deviate a bit from the consensus formed on river-dev IMHO,
> should we go back to the drawingboard and discuss your proposal within
> the PPMC?
Can you clarify? What remarks deviated from the consenus? Are you
referring to the graduation proposal, or just the comments regarding
com.sun?
--- Noel
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Graduation of River
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 12/12/2010 05:59 PM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> The original intent of the Jini specification was that only the
> net.jini.* namespace was supposed to be used by application built on
> top, but very early this was breached both by recommendation and by
> lack of enforcement. So, at the moment, there are a handful of classes
> in the com.sun.* space which is considered part of the 'official' API,
> or at least recommended as 'work-around' for certain recurring issues
> people have.
> Looking back in history, Jini v1.0 had some classes in com.sun.* which
> in subsequent releases got 'promoted' to net.jini.* namespace, and
> that should be the recommended move forward here too.
It was discussed on river-dev and the idea it got from this was that we
still believe in a separation between specification and implementation.
The implementation that resides in com.sun could be renamed into the
org.apache.river.impl namespace without causing to much conversion
activity with the users of river. I believe there are strong feelings
about keeping to the original specifications. My personal view on this
is that the original specifications should not stand in the way of new
developments, but since this does not block new developments at this
time i have no objections to following the consensus.
I know this is the prerogative of the IPMC to determine this, but your
remarks deviate a bit from the consensus formed on river-dev IMHO,
should we go back to the drawingboard and discuss your proposal within
the PPMC?
Gr. Sim
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Graduation of River
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
>> b) This upcoming release still has com.sun packages in it.
>
> Is there any concern regarding permitted use of the com.sun package?
>
> Other than that, which may be ado about nothing, I'm fine with the proposal.
The com.sun namespace comes with the original donation from Sun, which
we have a full Software Grant on.
The original intent of the Jini specification was that only the
net.jini.* namespace was supposed to be used by application built on
top, but very early this was breached both by recommendation and by
lack of enforcement. So, at the moment, there are a handful of classes
in the com.sun.* space which is considered part of the 'official' API,
or at least recommended as 'work-around' for certain recurring issues
people have.
Looking back in history, Jini v1.0 had some classes in com.sun.* which
in subsequent releases got 'promoted' to net.jini.* namespace, and
that should be the recommended move forward here too.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/3xugrbk
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/24svnvk
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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RE: [PROPOSAL] Graduation of River
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> b) This upcoming release still has com.sun packages in it.
Is there any concern regarding permitted use of the com.sun package?
Other than that, which may be ado about nothing, I'm fine with the proposal.
--- Noel
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