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Posted to droids-dev@incubator.apache.org by florent andré <fl...@4sengines.com> on 2010/11/22 09:46:16 UTC
Who take the lead ?
Hi all,
We are many to be interesting in this great Droids project and have many
ideas for the future (recent mails show this).
Thorsten, thanks to him, leads this project till now, but don't have
still much time for it (and we understand him ! :) )
So, I think it could be cool if someone (or two, three,...) with enough
karma, can charge of taking the lead of this project.
Have a lead is a requirement to ensure a good growing of "baby Droids"
imho.
Cheers,
++
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 23/11/2010 13:25, Sylvain Garaud wrote:
> I will publish some documentation on how I used the droid core API for
> my use case, which is interfacing droids with the java ROME library.
Perfect!!!
Looking forward to it.
Ross
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Sylvain Garaud <ga...@gmail.com>.
Hello all,
I monitor the droids project since a long time now without
contributing for nothing.
My first goal was to find an inspiration source to design a robot.
At that time, I already had a simple implementation inspired by the
source code published by Andreas Hess.
I really think that the project is a solid foundation for designing
powerful crawlers.
From my point of view, few use cases using the core API should be
published, starting by the documentation.
Some old web crawler implementation not using the core API should be
removed because it makes things difficult to understand.
I will publish some documentation on how I used the droid core API for
my use case, which is interfacing droids with the java ROME library.
Regards,
Sylvain
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Thorsten Scherler <sc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-11-22 at 10:46 +0100, florent andré wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We are many to be interesting in this great Droids project and have many
>> ideas for the future (recent mails show this).
>>
>> Thorsten, thanks to him, leads this project till now, but don't have
>> still much time for it (and we understand him ! :) )
>>
>> So, I think it could be cool if someone (or two, three,...) with enough
>> karma, can charge of taking the lead of this project.
>>
>> Have a lead is a requirement to ensure a good growing of "baby Droids"
>> imho.
>
> Like Ross said we do not have and do not need an official leader in a
> healthy Apache project since is based on the community!
>
> I investigated Droids as a labs project and people started to use it.
> Then it came into incubation and I did not found the time anymore to
> review all the code changes and keep up with the enhancement suggestion
> on the list (e.g. Ming Fai).
>
> Matter of fact is that there are many things to do where you do not need
> any karma:
> - review patches
> - discuss code enhancements
> - prepare releases
> - writing documentation
> - answering eMails
> - etc.
>
> That can be done by the whole community (with and without commit
> rights).
>
> We have successfully celebrated community days where we reviewed and
> committed the patch stack and seeing the recent threads it can be seen
> that there are a lot of people either using or monitoring Droids.
>
> IMO the best way to proceed is to pin down a release and then move
> forward designing a new version which incorporates the most common use
> cases. Further we should review the architecture regarding the different
> componentes, so Droids can run in different environment like GAE [1],
> Android, ....
>
> I am happy to see that there IS a community of followers and hope that
> together we can:
> a) do a release
> b) leave the incubator
> c) create a "community" version of Droids where we review the
> architecture
>
> Last but not least I never said I will leave the project, nor that I
> will not spent any time on it. I am happy to be part of the community
> and help where I can, but I cannot do it by myself anymore.
>
> So if you find a "junior programming error" then please submit a patch
> to fix it rather then just pointing it out, that helps the project.
>
> If you just started with Droids and the first steps you took to get
> coding are still in the back of your head, write documentation, that
> helps the project.
>
> If somebody ask a question on the ml, try to answer it even if you do
> not know the solution, that helps the project.
>
> I believe that Apache Droids is very useful and can be very successful
> if we all work together.
>
> salu2
>
> [1] http://search-lucene.com/m/h2isH1e495V/v=threaded
> --
> Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
> codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
> <consulting, training and solutions>
> http://www.codebusters.es/
>
>
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <sc...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, 2010-11-22 at 10:46 +0100, florent andré wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We are many to be interesting in this great Droids project and have many
> ideas for the future (recent mails show this).
>
> Thorsten, thanks to him, leads this project till now, but don't have
> still much time for it (and we understand him ! :) )
>
> So, I think it could be cool if someone (or two, three,...) with enough
> karma, can charge of taking the lead of this project.
>
> Have a lead is a requirement to ensure a good growing of "baby Droids"
> imho.
Like Ross said we do not have and do not need an official leader in a
healthy Apache project since is based on the community!
I investigated Droids as a labs project and people started to use it.
Then it came into incubation and I did not found the time anymore to
review all the code changes and keep up with the enhancement suggestion
on the list (e.g. Ming Fai).
Matter of fact is that there are many things to do where you do not need
any karma:
- review patches
- discuss code enhancements
- prepare releases
- writing documentation
- answering eMails
- etc.
That can be done by the whole community (with and without commit
rights).
We have successfully celebrated community days where we reviewed and
committed the patch stack and seeing the recent threads it can be seen
that there are a lot of people either using or monitoring Droids.
IMO the best way to proceed is to pin down a release and then move
forward designing a new version which incorporates the most common use
cases. Further we should review the architecture regarding the different
componentes, so Droids can run in different environment like GAE [1],
Android, ....
I am happy to see that there IS a community of followers and hope that
together we can:
a) do a release
b) leave the incubator
c) create a "community" version of Droids where we review the
architecture
Last but not least I never said I will leave the project, nor that I
will not spent any time on it. I am happy to be part of the community
and help where I can, but I cannot do it by myself anymore.
So if you find a "junior programming error" then please submit a patch
to fix it rather then just pointing it out, that helps the project.
If you just started with Droids and the first steps you took to get
coding are still in the back of your head, write documentation, that
helps the project.
If somebody ask a question on the ml, try to answer it even if you do
not know the solution, that helps the project.
I believe that Apache Droids is very useful and can be very successful
if we all work together.
salu2
[1] http://search-lucene.com/m/h2isH1e495V/v=threaded
--
Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
<consulting, training and solutions>
http://www.codebusters.es/
RE: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca>.
Hi,
I have enough karma and I already seen many TODOs and even bad coding
practices in Droids so that I decided not to use it... I'd use it but there
are so many frequent core changes which I need so that it would be hard
without having comitter's access... and probably many others have similar
feelings... I am also familiar with Nutch, BIXO, and many other stuff
Right now I have specific requirements (vertical search + RSS ping), I can
use Droids for this; I am planning to use HBase + SOLR too.
-Fuad
-----Original Message-----
From: florent andré [mailto:florent.andre-dev@4sengines.com]
Sent: November-22-10 4:46 AM
To: Droids Dev list
Subject: Who take the lead ?
Hi all,
We are many to be interesting in this great Droids project and have many
ideas for the future (recent mails show this).
Thorsten, thanks to him, leads this project till now, but don't have still
much time for it (and we understand him ! :) )
So, I think it could be cool if someone (or two, three,...) with enough
karma, can charge of taking the lead of this project.
Have a lead is a requirement to ensure a good growing of "baby Droids"
imho.
Cheers,
++
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Tim Williams <wi...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Richard Frovarp <rf...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 11/22/2010 08:48 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>>
>> A patch that fixes this, and just this would be easy to review and apply.
>>
>> If you have the energy and desire then go for it. If not - fair enough
>> let's allow Droids to go to sleep.
>>
>> This was suggested recently, people said "no", we need to see community
>> and code if the project is to stay alive.
>>
>> I don't use it. I don't care one way or the other - if others cars then
>> I'll apply appropriate parches until someone earns sufficient merit.
>>
>> Ross
>>
>
> Thank you Ross.
>
> I think what we're seeing here is that there is a community interested in
> using Droids. However, either they're not sure on how to use it
> (documentation), or not sure if they're contributions back will be
> committed.
>
> To the community:
>
> For documentation, it is true that many of us don't like writing
> documentation. Perhaps it might be useful if people started asking questions
> about how to do X. That can help guide where the documentation needs to go.
> Others on this list may have answers to your questions.
From the peanut gallery, I'd echo Tony's suggestion earlier. I'd
suggest that the Droids team could boost their participation level
immensely by providing a simple bootstrapping/quickstart document.
Something like Apache Click[1] where, in a couple simple steps you can
download a jar, write a handful of code, and see "something."
Something doesn't have to be useful - it has to be simple enough to
entice me to learn more on my own - pointing to the test code isn't
going to drive much adoption I think.
--tim
[1] - http://click.apache.org/
Feedback (was Re: Who take the lead ?)
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <sc...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 23:42 +0100, Chapuis Bertil wrote:
> This one may also be added to the list :-)
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-56
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bertil
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:04 PM, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > There are patches submitted for the following issues:
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-106
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-111
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-92
> > Waiting for your feedback.
> > Thanks.
> > Eugen.
I reviewed 92 and 111. When I was up to apply the patch the server gives
me 500.
I tried in a different ASF rep but with the same result. Maybe it is on
my end but it seems like the ASF svn is down.
salu2
--
Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
<consulting, training and solutions>
http://www.codebusters.es/
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Chapuis Bertil <bc...@agimem.com>.
This one may also be added to the list :-)
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-56
Thanks,
Bertil
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:04 PM, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> There are patches submitted for the following issues:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-106
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-111
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-92
> Waiting for your feedback.
> Thanks.
> Eugen.
>
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Ryan McKinley <ry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > One other thing to keep in mind... JIRA issues without patches often
> > look like requests for someone else to do work. I tend to ignore them
> > 'till there is somethign to look at.
> >
> > The mailing list is a better place to say 'how do people feel about
> > changing XXX' and see if it is a non-starter, something other people
> > want to help with, or don't care one way or the other. As Ross said,
> > if folks don't speak up, and there is real work done, that counts as
> > consensus :)
> >
> > thanks
> > ryan
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Actually, there is no patch attached to my issues. The reason is that
> I'm
> > > waiting for some sort of official go ahead before submitting a patch.
> > > Thanks for the quick feedback on this, and as soon as you have time to
> > look
> > > at the issues and give the green light, I will submit patches as well.
> > > Eugen
> > >
> > > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Eugene,
> > >>
> > >> I've got your issues in my todo list. I'll get to them as soon as I
> can
> > >> (which will be days at least). Hopefully some else can review them
> > before I
> > >> find the time and I can just get on with committing.
> > >>
> > >> Your efforts are appreciated. Sorry I've not been able to find the
> time
> > >> yet.
> > >>
> > >> There is also at least one patch from another contribute awaiting
> > >> attention.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my mobile device.
> > >>
> > >> On 4 Dec 2010, at 11:02, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Hi,
> > >> > I've added a few relatively small issues on the JIRA and I'm still
> > >> waiting
> > >> > for some feedback from someone (hopefully someone with commit
> rights),
> > so
> > >> > that I know that the issues are valid and I can begin working on
> them:
> > >> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-92
> > >> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-106
> > >> > After the spike in communication related to the project (which I
> think
> > >> was
> > >> > very good), I was hoping someone can take the time to look at these,
> > as
> > >> this
> > >> > is the kind of thing that gets thing moving.
> > >> > My goal is to keep adding issues and perhaps integrate some of my
> work
> > >> back
> > >> > into the trunk, but in order for people to do this, we do need a
> > minimal
> > >> > amount of direction, especially starting out.
> > >> > Any feedback is appreciated.
> > >> > Thanks.
> > >> > Eugen.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca>
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> And imagine Cocoon is better powered by Saxon... BTW thanks for
> > >> publishing
> > >> >> link to my profile; I am here not for SEO.
> > >> >> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
> > >> >>
> > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> From: Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>
> > >> >> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:24:10
> > >> >> To: <dr...@incubator.apache.org>
> > >> >> Reply-To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >> Subject: RE: Who take the lead ?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 21:50 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> > >> >>> I'll try to do more research... I am thinking while writing :)
> > >> >>> But please if anyone has real-life use cases, share... because I
> > still
> > >> >> don't
> > >> >>> understand why for... it was much easier (and valuable) to learn
> > >> >> Cascading
> > >> >>> for instance, one-man-project...
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Dude, nobody forces you to use, evaluate or being subscribed to
> > Droids!
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I personally do not like your style in criticizing the project but
> > after
> > >> >> years as apache committer I got use to people like you. You have
> > valid
> > >> >> points in your shouting but the way you present them is completely
> of
> > >> >> base and not helpful at all.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 19:38 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> > >> >>> And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of
> a
> > >> >>> much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Yeah, so do it! Go ahead and start this projects in the incubator
> and
> > >> >> grow a community around it, please, I dare you.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> ... but maybe you are brand new to the ASF: we are about
> communities
> > not
> > >> >> much-better-quality code.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> BTW talk is cheap and seeing [1] you have not really made your
> hands
> > >> >> dirty in contributing to open source projects but seeing your
> > LinkedIn
> > >> >> profile based your professional life around them.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> There is a word for that in english, Meriam-Webster defines "a
> > benefit
> > >> >> obtained at another's expense or without the usual cost or effort"
> as
> > >> >> "free ride".
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> [1] https://www.ohloh.net/people?q=fuad%40efendi.ca
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
> > >> >> codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
> > >> >> <consulting, training and solutions>
> > >> >> http://www.codebusters.es/
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
--
Bertil Chapuis
Agimem Sàrl
http://www.agimem.com
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com>.
There are patches submitted for the following issues:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-106
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-111
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-92
Waiting for your feedback.
Thanks.
Eugen.
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Ryan McKinley <ry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> One other thing to keep in mind... JIRA issues without patches often
> look like requests for someone else to do work. I tend to ignore them
> 'till there is somethign to look at.
>
> The mailing list is a better place to say 'how do people feel about
> changing XXX' and see if it is a non-starter, something other people
> want to help with, or don't care one way or the other. As Ross said,
> if folks don't speak up, and there is real work done, that counts as
> consensus :)
>
> thanks
> ryan
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Actually, there is no patch attached to my issues. The reason is that I'm
> > waiting for some sort of official go ahead before submitting a patch.
> > Thanks for the quick feedback on this, and as soon as you have time to
> look
> > at the issues and give the green light, I will submit patches as well.
> > Eugen
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Eugene,
> >>
> >> I've got your issues in my todo list. I'll get to them as soon as I can
> >> (which will be days at least). Hopefully some else can review them
> before I
> >> find the time and I can just get on with committing.
> >>
> >> Your efforts are appreciated. Sorry I've not been able to find the time
> >> yet.
> >>
> >> There is also at least one patch from another contribute awaiting
> >> attention.
> >>
> >> Sent from my mobile device.
> >>
> >> On 4 Dec 2010, at 11:02, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi,
> >> > I've added a few relatively small issues on the JIRA and I'm still
> >> waiting
> >> > for some feedback from someone (hopefully someone with commit rights),
> so
> >> > that I know that the issues are valid and I can begin working on them:
> >> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-92
> >> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-106
> >> > After the spike in communication related to the project (which I think
> >> was
> >> > very good), I was hoping someone can take the time to look at these,
> as
> >> this
> >> > is the kind of thing that gets thing moving.
> >> > My goal is to keep adding issues and perhaps integrate some of my work
> >> back
> >> > into the trunk, but in order for people to do this, we do need a
> minimal
> >> > amount of direction, especially starting out.
> >> > Any feedback is appreciated.
> >> > Thanks.
> >> > Eugen.
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> And imagine Cocoon is better powered by Saxon... BTW thanks for
> >> publishing
> >> >> link to my profile; I am here not for SEO.
> >> >> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>
> >> >> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:24:10
> >> >> To: <dr...@incubator.apache.org>
> >> >> Reply-To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> >> Subject: RE: Who take the lead ?
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 21:50 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> >> >>> I'll try to do more research... I am thinking while writing :)
> >> >>> But please if anyone has real-life use cases, share... because I
> still
> >> >> don't
> >> >>> understand why for... it was much easier (and valuable) to learn
> >> >> Cascading
> >> >>> for instance, one-man-project...
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> Dude, nobody forces you to use, evaluate or being subscribed to
> Droids!
> >> >>
> >> >> I personally do not like your style in criticizing the project but
> after
> >> >> years as apache committer I got use to people like you. You have
> valid
> >> >> points in your shouting but the way you present them is completely of
> >> >> base and not helpful at all.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 19:38 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> >> >>> And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of a
> >> >>> much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yeah, so do it! Go ahead and start this projects in the incubator and
> >> >> grow a community around it, please, I dare you.
> >> >>
> >> >> ... but maybe you are brand new to the ASF: we are about communities
> not
> >> >> much-better-quality code.
> >> >>
> >> >> BTW talk is cheap and seeing [1] you have not really made your hands
> >> >> dirty in contributing to open source projects but seeing your
> LinkedIn
> >> >> profile based your professional life around them.
> >> >>
> >> >> There is a word for that in english, Meriam-Webster defines "a
> benefit
> >> >> obtained at another's expense or without the usual cost or effort" as
> >> >> "free ride".
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> [1] https://www.ohloh.net/people?q=fuad%40efendi.ca
> >> >> --
> >> >> Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
> >> >> codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
> >> >> <consulting, training and solutions>
> >> >> http://www.codebusters.es/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >
>
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Ryan McKinley <ry...@gmail.com>.
One other thing to keep in mind... JIRA issues without patches often
look like requests for someone else to do work. I tend to ignore them
'till there is somethign to look at.
The mailing list is a better place to say 'how do people feel about
changing XXX' and see if it is a non-starter, something other people
want to help with, or don't care one way or the other. As Ross said,
if folks don't speak up, and there is real work done, that counts as
consensus :)
thanks
ryan
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, there is no patch attached to my issues. The reason is that I'm
> waiting for some sort of official go ahead before submitting a patch.
> Thanks for the quick feedback on this, and as soon as you have time to look
> at the issues and give the green light, I will submit patches as well.
> Eugen
>
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Eugene,
>>
>> I've got your issues in my todo list. I'll get to them as soon as I can
>> (which will be days at least). Hopefully some else can review them before I
>> find the time and I can just get on with committing.
>>
>> Your efforts are appreciated. Sorry I've not been able to find the time
>> yet.
>>
>> There is also at least one patch from another contribute awaiting
>> attention.
>>
>> Sent from my mobile device.
>>
>> On 4 Dec 2010, at 11:02, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> > I've added a few relatively small issues on the JIRA and I'm still
>> waiting
>> > for some feedback from someone (hopefully someone with commit rights), so
>> > that I know that the issues are valid and I can begin working on them:
>> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-92
>> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-106
>> > After the spike in communication related to the project (which I think
>> was
>> > very good), I was hoping someone can take the time to look at these, as
>> this
>> > is the kind of thing that gets thing moving.
>> > My goal is to keep adding issues and perhaps integrate some of my work
>> back
>> > into the trunk, but in order for people to do this, we do need a minimal
>> > amount of direction, especially starting out.
>> > Any feedback is appreciated.
>> > Thanks.
>> > Eugen.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca> wrote:
>> >
>> >> And imagine Cocoon is better powered by Saxon... BTW thanks for
>> publishing
>> >> link to my profile; I am here not for SEO.
>> >> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>
>> >> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:24:10
>> >> To: <dr...@incubator.apache.org>
>> >> Reply-To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> Subject: RE: Who take the lead ?
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 21:50 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
>> >>> I'll try to do more research... I am thinking while writing :)
>> >>> But please if anyone has real-life use cases, share... because I still
>> >> don't
>> >>> understand why for... it was much easier (and valuable) to learn
>> >> Cascading
>> >>> for instance, one-man-project...
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Dude, nobody forces you to use, evaluate or being subscribed to Droids!
>> >>
>> >> I personally do not like your style in criticizing the project but after
>> >> years as apache committer I got use to people like you. You have valid
>> >> points in your shouting but the way you present them is completely of
>> >> base and not helpful at all.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 19:38 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
>> >>> And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of a
>> >>> much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, so do it! Go ahead and start this projects in the incubator and
>> >> grow a community around it, please, I dare you.
>> >>
>> >> ... but maybe you are brand new to the ASF: we are about communities not
>> >> much-better-quality code.
>> >>
>> >> BTW talk is cheap and seeing [1] you have not really made your hands
>> >> dirty in contributing to open source projects but seeing your LinkedIn
>> >> profile based your professional life around them.
>> >>
>> >> There is a word for that in english, Meriam-Webster defines "a benefit
>> >> obtained at another's expense or without the usual cost or effort" as
>> >> "free ride".
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> [1] https://www.ohloh.net/people?q=fuad%40efendi.ca
>> >> --
>> >> Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
>> >> codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
>> >> <consulting, training and solutions>
>> >> http://www.codebusters.es/
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com>.
Good to know, I will start working on the patches then. Thanks.
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 4 Dec 2010, at 17:18, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Actually, there is no patch attached to my issues. The reason is that I'm
> > waiting for some sort of official go ahead before submitting a patch.
>
> In general we work through lazy consensus. That is, if nobody objects go
> ahead.
>
> Another principle we have here is let those who do the work make the
> decisions.
>
> Of course if you are not sure about direction and need feedback on how to
> achieve something that's different. But if you feel your ideas are good and
> nobody is objecting just go for it. Code is usually easier to review than
> ideas.
>
> Ross
>
> > Thanks for the quick feedback on this, and as soon as you have time to
> look
> > at the issues and give the green light, I will submit patches as well.
> > Eugen
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Eugene,
> >>
> >> I've got your issues in my todo list. I'll get to them as soon as I can
> >> (which will be days at least). Hopefully some else can review them
> before I
> >> find the time and I can just get on with committing.
> >>
> >> Your efforts are appreciated. Sorry I've not been able to find the time
> >> yet.
> >>
> >> There is also at least one patch from another contribute awaiting
> >> attention.
> >>
> >> Sent from my mobile device.
> >>
> >> On 4 Dec 2010, at 11:02, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>> I've added a few relatively small issues on the JIRA and I'm still
> >> waiting
> >>> for some feedback from someone (hopefully someone with commit rights),
> so
> >>> that I know that the issues are valid and I can begin working on them:
> >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-92
> >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-106
> >>> After the spike in communication related to the project (which I think
> >> was
> >>> very good), I was hoping someone can take the time to look at these, as
> >> this
> >>> is the kind of thing that gets thing moving.
> >>> My goal is to keep adding issues and perhaps integrate some of my work
> >> back
> >>> into the trunk, but in order for people to do this, we do need a
> minimal
> >>> amount of direction, especially starting out.
> >>> Any feedback is appreciated.
> >>> Thanks.
> >>> Eugen.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> And imagine Cocoon is better powered by Saxon... BTW thanks for
> >> publishing
> >>>> link to my profile; I am here not for SEO.
> >>>> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>
> >>>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:24:10
> >>>> To: <dr...@incubator.apache.org>
> >>>> Reply-To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>> Subject: RE: Who take the lead ?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 21:50 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> >>>>> I'll try to do more research... I am thinking while writing :)
> >>>>> But please if anyone has real-life use cases, share... because I
> still
> >>>> don't
> >>>>> understand why for... it was much easier (and valuable) to learn
> >>>> Cascading
> >>>>> for instance, one-man-project...
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Dude, nobody forces you to use, evaluate or being subscribed to
> Droids!
> >>>>
> >>>> I personally do not like your style in criticizing the project but
> after
> >>>> years as apache committer I got use to people like you. You have valid
> >>>> points in your shouting but the way you present them is completely of
> >>>> base and not helpful at all.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 19:38 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> >>>>> And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of a
> >>>>> much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yeah, so do it! Go ahead and start this projects in the incubator and
> >>>> grow a community around it, please, I dare you.
> >>>>
> >>>> ... but maybe you are brand new to the ASF: we are about communities
> not
> >>>> much-better-quality code.
> >>>>
> >>>> BTW talk is cheap and seeing [1] you have not really made your hands
> >>>> dirty in contributing to open source projects but seeing your LinkedIn
> >>>> profile based your professional life around them.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is a word for that in english, Meriam-Webster defines "a benefit
> >>>> obtained at another's expense or without the usual cost or effort" as
> >>>> "free ride".
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] https://www.ohloh.net/people?q=fuad%40efendi.ca
> >>>> --
> >>>> Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
> >>>> codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
> >>>> <consulting, training and solutions>
> >>>> http://www.codebusters.es/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
>
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 4 Dec 2010, at 17:18, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, there is no patch attached to my issues. The reason is that I'm
> waiting for some sort of official go ahead before submitting a patch.
In general we work through lazy consensus. That is, if nobody objects go ahead.
Another principle we have here is let those who do the work make the decisions.
Of course if you are not sure about direction and need feedback on how to achieve something that's different. But if you feel your ideas are good and nobody is objecting just go for it. Code is usually easier to review than ideas.
Ross
> Thanks for the quick feedback on this, and as soon as you have time to look
> at the issues and give the green light, I will submit patches as well.
> Eugen
>
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Eugene,
>>
>> I've got your issues in my todo list. I'll get to them as soon as I can
>> (which will be days at least). Hopefully some else can review them before I
>> find the time and I can just get on with committing.
>>
>> Your efforts are appreciated. Sorry I've not been able to find the time
>> yet.
>>
>> There is also at least one patch from another contribute awaiting
>> attention.
>>
>> Sent from my mobile device.
>>
>> On 4 Dec 2010, at 11:02, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I've added a few relatively small issues on the JIRA and I'm still
>> waiting
>>> for some feedback from someone (hopefully someone with commit rights), so
>>> that I know that the issues are valid and I can begin working on them:
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-92
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-106
>>> After the spike in communication related to the project (which I think
>> was
>>> very good), I was hoping someone can take the time to look at these, as
>> this
>>> is the kind of thing that gets thing moving.
>>> My goal is to keep adding issues and perhaps integrate some of my work
>> back
>>> into the trunk, but in order for people to do this, we do need a minimal
>>> amount of direction, especially starting out.
>>> Any feedback is appreciated.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Eugen.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And imagine Cocoon is better powered by Saxon... BTW thanks for
>> publishing
>>>> link to my profile; I am here not for SEO.
>>>> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>
>>>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:24:10
>>>> To: <dr...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>> Reply-To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: RE: Who take the lead ?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 21:50 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
>>>>> I'll try to do more research... I am thinking while writing :)
>>>>> But please if anyone has real-life use cases, share... because I still
>>>> don't
>>>>> understand why for... it was much easier (and valuable) to learn
>>>> Cascading
>>>>> for instance, one-man-project...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dude, nobody forces you to use, evaluate or being subscribed to Droids!
>>>>
>>>> I personally do not like your style in criticizing the project but after
>>>> years as apache committer I got use to people like you. You have valid
>>>> points in your shouting but the way you present them is completely of
>>>> base and not helpful at all.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 19:38 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
>>>>> And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of a
>>>>> much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, so do it! Go ahead and start this projects in the incubator and
>>>> grow a community around it, please, I dare you.
>>>>
>>>> ... but maybe you are brand new to the ASF: we are about communities not
>>>> much-better-quality code.
>>>>
>>>> BTW talk is cheap and seeing [1] you have not really made your hands
>>>> dirty in contributing to open source projects but seeing your LinkedIn
>>>> profile based your professional life around them.
>>>>
>>>> There is a word for that in english, Meriam-Webster defines "a benefit
>>>> obtained at another's expense or without the usual cost or effort" as
>>>> "free ride".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://www.ohloh.net/people?q=fuad%40efendi.ca
>>>> --
>>>> Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
>>>> codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
>>>> <consulting, training and solutions>
>>>> http://www.codebusters.es/
>>>>
>>>>
>>
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com>.
Actually, there is no patch attached to my issues. The reason is that I'm
waiting for some sort of official go ahead before submitting a patch.
Thanks for the quick feedback on this, and as soon as you have time to look
at the issues and give the green light, I will submit patches as well.
Eugen
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org> wrote:
> Eugene,
>
> I've got your issues in my todo list. I'll get to them as soon as I can
> (which will be days at least). Hopefully some else can review them before I
> find the time and I can just get on with committing.
>
> Your efforts are appreciated. Sorry I've not been able to find the time
> yet.
>
> There is also at least one patch from another contribute awaiting
> attention.
>
> Sent from my mobile device.
>
> On 4 Dec 2010, at 11:02, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I've added a few relatively small issues on the JIRA and I'm still
> waiting
> > for some feedback from someone (hopefully someone with commit rights), so
> > that I know that the issues are valid and I can begin working on them:
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-92
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-106
> > After the spike in communication related to the project (which I think
> was
> > very good), I was hoping someone can take the time to look at these, as
> this
> > is the kind of thing that gets thing moving.
> > My goal is to keep adding issues and perhaps integrate some of my work
> back
> > into the trunk, but in order for people to do this, we do need a minimal
> > amount of direction, especially starting out.
> > Any feedback is appreciated.
> > Thanks.
> > Eugen.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> And imagine Cocoon is better powered by Saxon... BTW thanks for
> publishing
> >> link to my profile; I am here not for SEO.
> >> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>
> >> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:24:10
> >> To: <dr...@incubator.apache.org>
> >> Reply-To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Who take the lead ?
> >>
> >> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 21:50 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> >>> I'll try to do more research... I am thinking while writing :)
> >>> But please if anyone has real-life use cases, share... because I still
> >> don't
> >>> understand why for... it was much easier (and valuable) to learn
> >> Cascading
> >>> for instance, one-man-project...
> >>>
> >>
> >> Dude, nobody forces you to use, evaluate or being subscribed to Droids!
> >>
> >> I personally do not like your style in criticizing the project but after
> >> years as apache committer I got use to people like you. You have valid
> >> points in your shouting but the way you present them is completely of
> >> base and not helpful at all.
> >>
> >> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 19:38 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> >>> And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of a
> >>> much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
> >>
> >> Yeah, so do it! Go ahead and start this projects in the incubator and
> >> grow a community around it, please, I dare you.
> >>
> >> ... but maybe you are brand new to the ASF: we are about communities not
> >> much-better-quality code.
> >>
> >> BTW talk is cheap and seeing [1] you have not really made your hands
> >> dirty in contributing to open source projects but seeing your LinkedIn
> >> profile based your professional life around them.
> >>
> >> There is a word for that in english, Meriam-Webster defines "a benefit
> >> obtained at another's expense or without the usual cost or effort" as
> >> "free ride".
> >>
> >>
> >> [1] https://www.ohloh.net/people?q=fuad%40efendi.ca
> >> --
> >> Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
> >> codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
> >> <consulting, training and solutions>
> >> http://www.codebusters.es/
> >>
> >>
>
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Eugene,
I've got your issues in my todo list. I'll get to them as soon as I can (which will be days at least). Hopefully some else can review them before I find the time and I can just get on with committing.
Your efforts are appreciated. Sorry I've not been able to find the time yet.
There is also at least one patch from another contribute awaiting attention.
Sent from my mobile device.
On 4 Dec 2010, at 11:02, Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I've added a few relatively small issues on the JIRA and I'm still waiting
> for some feedback from someone (hopefully someone with commit rights), so
> that I know that the issues are valid and I can begin working on them:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-92
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-106
> After the spike in communication related to the project (which I think was
> very good), I was hoping someone can take the time to look at these, as this
> is the kind of thing that gets thing moving.
> My goal is to keep adding issues and perhaps integrate some of my work back
> into the trunk, but in order for people to do this, we do need a minimal
> amount of direction, especially starting out.
> Any feedback is appreciated.
> Thanks.
> Eugen.
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca> wrote:
>
>> And imagine Cocoon is better powered by Saxon... BTW thanks for publishing
>> link to my profile; I am here not for SEO.
>> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:24:10
>> To: <dr...@incubator.apache.org>
>> Reply-To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Who take the lead ?
>>
>> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 21:50 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
>>> I'll try to do more research... I am thinking while writing :)
>>> But please if anyone has real-life use cases, share... because I still
>> don't
>>> understand why for... it was much easier (and valuable) to learn
>> Cascading
>>> for instance, one-man-project...
>>>
>>
>> Dude, nobody forces you to use, evaluate or being subscribed to Droids!
>>
>> I personally do not like your style in criticizing the project but after
>> years as apache committer I got use to people like you. You have valid
>> points in your shouting but the way you present them is completely of
>> base and not helpful at all.
>>
>> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 19:38 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
>>> And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of a
>>> much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
>>
>> Yeah, so do it! Go ahead and start this projects in the incubator and
>> grow a community around it, please, I dare you.
>>
>> ... but maybe you are brand new to the ASF: we are about communities not
>> much-better-quality code.
>>
>> BTW talk is cheap and seeing [1] you have not really made your hands
>> dirty in contributing to open source projects but seeing your LinkedIn
>> profile based your professional life around them.
>>
>> There is a word for that in english, Meriam-Webster defines "a benefit
>> obtained at another's expense or without the usual cost or effort" as
>> "free ride".
>>
>>
>> [1] https://www.ohloh.net/people?q=fuad%40efendi.ca
>> --
>> Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
>> codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
>> <consulting, training and solutions>
>> http://www.codebusters.es/
>>
>>
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Eugen Paraschiv <ha...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I've added a few relatively small issues on the JIRA and I'm still waiting
for some feedback from someone (hopefully someone with commit rights), so
that I know that the issues are valid and I can begin working on them:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-92
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DROIDS-106
After the spike in communication related to the project (which I think was
very good), I was hoping someone can take the time to look at these, as this
is the kind of thing that gets thing moving.
My goal is to keep adding issues and perhaps integrate some of my work back
into the trunk, but in order for people to do this, we do need a minimal
amount of direction, especially starting out.
Any feedback is appreciated.
Thanks.
Eugen.
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca> wrote:
> And imagine Cocoon is better powered by Saxon... BTW thanks for publishing
> link to my profile; I am here not for SEO.
> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>
> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:24:10
> To: <dr...@incubator.apache.org>
> Reply-To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Who take the lead ?
>
> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 21:50 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> > I'll try to do more research... I am thinking while writing :)
> > But please if anyone has real-life use cases, share... because I still
> don't
> > understand why for... it was much easier (and valuable) to learn
> Cascading
> > for instance, one-man-project...
> >
>
> Dude, nobody forces you to use, evaluate or being subscribed to Droids!
>
> I personally do not like your style in criticizing the project but after
> years as apache committer I got use to people like you. You have valid
> points in your shouting but the way you present them is completely of
> base and not helpful at all.
>
> On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 19:38 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> > And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of a
> > much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
>
> Yeah, so do it! Go ahead and start this projects in the incubator and
> grow a community around it, please, I dare you.
>
> ... but maybe you are brand new to the ASF: we are about communities not
> much-better-quality code.
>
> BTW talk is cheap and seeing [1] you have not really made your hands
> dirty in contributing to open source projects but seeing your LinkedIn
> profile based your professional life around them.
>
> There is a word for that in english, Meriam-Webster defines "a benefit
> obtained at another's expense or without the usual cost or effort" as
> "free ride".
>
>
> [1] https://www.ohloh.net/people?q=fuad%40efendi.ca
> --
> Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
> codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
> <consulting, training and solutions>
> http://www.codebusters.es/
>
>
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca>.
And imagine Cocoon is better powered by Saxon... BTW thanks for publishing link to my profile; I am here not for SEO.
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:24:10
To: <dr...@incubator.apache.org>
Reply-To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Who take the lead ?
On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 21:50 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> I'll try to do more research... I am thinking while writing :)
> But please if anyone has real-life use cases, share... because I still don't
> understand why for... it was much easier (and valuable) to learn Cascading
> for instance, one-man-project...
>
Dude, nobody forces you to use, evaluate or being subscribed to Droids!
I personally do not like your style in criticizing the project but after
years as apache committer I got use to people like you. You have valid
points in your shouting but the way you present them is completely of
base and not helpful at all.
On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 19:38 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of a
> much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
Yeah, so do it! Go ahead and start this projects in the incubator and
grow a community around it, please, I dare you.
... but maybe you are brand new to the ASF: we are about communities not
much-better-quality code.
BTW talk is cheap and seeing [1] you have not really made your hands
dirty in contributing to open source projects but seeing your LinkedIn
profile based your professional life around them.
There is a word for that in english, Meriam-Webster defines "a benefit
obtained at another's expense or without the usual cost or effort" as
"free ride".
[1] https://www.ohloh.net/people?q=fuad%40efendi.ca
--
Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
<consulting, training and solutions>
http://www.codebusters.es/
RE: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca>.
Yes, I created big noise around; but not a big yet...
-----Original Message-----
From: Thorsten Scherler [mailto:thorsten@apache.org]
Sent: November-24-10 4:24 AM
To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Who take the lead ?
On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 21:50 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> I'll try to do more research... I am thinking while writing :)
> But please if anyone has real-life use cases, share... because I still don't
> understand why for... it was much easier (and valuable) to learn Cascading
> for instance, one-man-project...
>
Dude, nobody forces you to use, evaluate or being subscribed to Droids!
I personally do not like your style in criticizing the project but after
years as apache committer I got use to people like you. You have valid
points in your shouting but the way you present them is completely of
base and not helpful at all.
On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 19:38 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of a
> much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
Yeah, so do it! Go ahead and start this projects in the incubator and
grow a community around it, please, I dare you.
... but maybe you are brand new to the ASF: we are about communities not
much-better-quality code.
BTW talk is cheap and seeing [1] you have not really made your hands
dirty in contributing to open source projects but seeing your LinkedIn
profile based your professional life around them.
There is a word for that in english, Meriam-Webster defines "a benefit
obtained at another's expense or without the usual cost or effort" as
"free ride".
[1] https://www.ohloh.net/people?q=fuad%40efendi.ca
--
Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
<consulting, training and solutions>
http://www.codebusters.es/
RE: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 21:50 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> I'll try to do more research... I am thinking while writing :)
> But please if anyone has real-life use cases, share... because I still don't
> understand why for... it was much easier (and valuable) to learn Cascading
> for instance, one-man-project...
>
Dude, nobody forces you to use, evaluate or being subscribed to Droids!
I personally do not like your style in criticizing the project but after
years as apache committer I got use to people like you. You have valid
points in your shouting but the way you present them is completely of
base and not helpful at all.
On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 19:38 -0500, Fuad Efendi wrote:
> And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of a
> much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
Yeah, so do it! Go ahead and start this projects in the incubator and
grow a community around it, please, I dare you.
... but maybe you are brand new to the ASF: we are about communities not
much-better-quality code.
BTW talk is cheap and seeing [1] you have not really made your hands
dirty in contributing to open source projects but seeing your LinkedIn
profile based your professional life around them.
There is a word for that in english, Meriam-Webster defines "a benefit
obtained at another's expense or without the usual cost or effort" as
"free ride".
[1] https://www.ohloh.net/people?q=fuad%40efendi.ca
--
Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
<consulting, training and solutions>
http://www.codebusters.es/
RE: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca>.
I'll try to do more research... I am thinking while writing :)
But please if anyone has real-life use cases, share... because I still don't
understand why for... it was much easier (and valuable) to learn Cascading
for instance, one-man-project...
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Tim Williams <wi...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 7:38 PM, Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca> wrote:
>> It is easy for us to talk about wanting the project to improve, but
> without action not much will happen.
>
> And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of a
> much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
>
> Yes, but first of all we need good documentation, because Droids still looks
> like _UGLIEST_ IoC rewrite (Spring, Cocoon, and even other IoCs!!!) of a
> _buggy_ (and hard-to-customize) Nutch-Robot-Parser-OSGi... and it was even
> advertised as a _polite_ Robot (as an Apache subproject specifically
> designed for "Polite Internet Crawler" use case)
>
> So, what about (HTTP) Robot, how much work remaining to make it polite?
> 2-years-behind-Nutch-BIXO-Heritrix? And, is it easy to plugin HBase Sink?
>
> Wonderfully, your framework doesn't use Hibernate & Compass.
Hi Fuad,
Can you offer a patch to address the issues you've brought up? A
patch would offer some more concrete, objective feedback that the
community could evaluate.
Thanks,
--tim
RE: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca>.
> It is easy for us to talk about wanting the project to improve, but
without action not much will happen.
And, the best action is to contribute into incubator thousands of a
much-better-quality projects, few-man-week each.
Yes, but first of all we need good documentation, because Droids still looks
like _UGLIEST_ IoC rewrite (Spring, Cocoon, and even other IoCs!!!) of a
_buggy_ (and hard-to-customize) Nutch-Robot-Parser-OSGi... and it was even
advertised as a _polite_ Robot (as an Apache subproject specifically
designed for "Polite Internet Crawler" use case)
So, what about (HTTP) Robot, how much work remaining to make it polite?
2-years-behind-Nutch-BIXO-Heritrix? And, is it easy to plugin HBase Sink?
Wonderfully, your framework doesn't use Hibernate & Compass.
-Fuad
(action)
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Paul Rogalinski <pa...@paul.vc>.
I do, although there not really much to re-use as it is.
Regards,
Paul.
Fuad Efendi wrote:
> Thanks Florent; I am just wondering is anyone using this codebase for
> commercial project? My understanding is no one... including guys "invested
> souls", they just mentor project but they don't use it (and they don't like
> it), how can?!
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Richard Frovarp <rf...@apache.org>.
On 11/24/2010 07:11 AM, Fuad Efendi wrote:
>
> Thanks Florent; I am just wondering is anyone using this codebase for
> commercial project? My understanding is no one... including guys "invested
> souls", they just mentor project but they don't use it (and they don't like
> it), how can?!
>
>
> I'll try to use it for my current project, I'll share findings...
>
>
> Thanks
>
If you don't think the project is up to your quality, you don't have to
use it. Sending content to SOLR is relatively easy. I've created a
crawler based on Droids that does just that.
In short, mentors in the Incubator at the ASF are there to make sure
that the project develops a healthy community in the Apache Way. Mentors
volunteer their time to help with community actions. They don't
necessarily have to use the project themselves.
RE: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca>.
Thanks Florent; I am just wondering is anyone using this codebase for
commercial project? My understanding is no one... including guys "invested
souls", they just mentor project but they don't use it (and they don't like
it), how can?!
I'll try to use it for my current project, I'll share findings...
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: florent andré [mailto:florent.andre-dev@4sengines.com]
Sent: November-24-10 5:22 AM
To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Who take the lead ?
Hey Fuad,
Next time, before send a mail, please read it with this things in mind :
*) They are Humans that read your mail
*) Humans are not perfect (are you ?)
*) Some of this Humans are guys that share this code
*) Theses guys have invest time and soul to this code
*) Sharing code is not as easy as it seems
*) Sharing code is a generous donation, not something due to you
You see key enhancements ?
Cool go head, we will be glad to see your patches, test case or whatever
constructive.
Please don't just write rude mails, nothing will be built on it.
Stop denigrate, act !
On 11/24/2010 02:03 AM, Fuad Efendi wrote:
>
> And how long is it (Apache! Droids) in (Apache!) Incubator... 3 years?
> How much progress? Community increase? (10%? Or 1000%?) Close it.
> Value time...
>
>
> This is more than enough to make decision regarding
> _bad_programming_skills_:
> public class Loggable {
> protected final Log log = LogFactory.getLog(this.getClass());
> protected Loggable() {
> }
> }
>
>
> Especially this:
> public class HtmlParser extends Loggable implements Parser { ... }
>
>
> Ok... but for most modern use cases having just parser is not
> enough!!!!!!!!!
> We need statistics; for instance, how many nodes have subnodes without
> anchors?
>
> I don't see _any_ (suitable) use case... where Droids can compete with
> others.
>
>
> And, if Droids wants to survive, please, publish Use Cases at first.
> Because my first impression (few years ago) was that Droids is a
> Framework to design Robots, but I didn't find anything helpful in
codebase.
>
> As a sample:
> - How can we find that this Node represents Footer on HTML page?
> - How can we crawl Database and generate Documents for SOLR?
> ...
>
>
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by florent andré <fl...@4sengines.com>.
Hey Fuad,
Next time, before send a mail, please read it with this things in mind :
*) They are Humans that read your mail
*) Humans are not perfect (are you ?)
*) Some of this Humans are guys that share this code
*) Theses guys have invest time and soul to this code
*) Sharing code is not as easy as it seems
*) Sharing code is a generous donation, not something due to you
You see key enhancements ?
Cool go head, we will be glad to see your patches, test case or whatever
constructive.
Please don't just write rude mails, nothing will be built on it.
Stop denigrate, act !
On 11/24/2010 02:03 AM, Fuad Efendi wrote:
>
> And how long is it (Apache! Droids) in (Apache!) Incubator... 3 years? How
> much progress? Community increase? (10%? Or 1000%?)
> Close it.
> Value time...
>
>
> This is more than enough to make decision regarding
> _bad_programming_skills_:
> public class Loggable {
> protected final Log log = LogFactory.getLog(this.getClass());
> protected Loggable() {
> }
> }
>
>
> Especially this:
> public class HtmlParser extends Loggable implements Parser { ... }
>
>
> Ok... but for most modern use cases having just parser is not
> enough!!!!!!!!!
> We need statistics; for instance, how many nodes have subnodes without
> anchors?
>
> I don't see _any_ (suitable) use case... where Droids can compete with
> others.
>
>
> And, if Droids wants to survive, please, publish Use Cases at first. Because
> my first impression (few years ago) was that Droids is a Framework to design
> Robots, but I didn't find anything helpful in codebase.
>
> As a sample:
> - How can we find that this Node represents Footer on HTML page?
> - How can we crawl Database and generate Documents for SOLR?
> ...
>
>
RE: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca>.
And how long is it (Apache! Droids) in (Apache!) Incubator... 3 years? How
much progress? Community increase? (10%? Or 1000%?)
Close it.
Value time...
This is more than enough to make decision regarding
_bad_programming_skills_:
public class Loggable {
protected final Log log = LogFactory.getLog(this.getClass());
protected Loggable() {
}
}
Especially this:
public class HtmlParser extends Loggable implements Parser { ... }
Ok... but for most modern use cases having just parser is not
enough!!!!!!!!!
We need statistics; for instance, how many nodes have subnodes without
anchors?
I don't see _any_ (suitable) use case... where Droids can compete with
others.
And, if Droids wants to survive, please, publish Use Cases at first. Because
my first impression (few years ago) was that Droids is a Framework to design
Robots, but I didn't find anything helpful in codebase.
As a sample:
- How can we find that this Node represents Footer on HTML page?
- How can we crawl Database and generate Documents for SOLR?
...
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Ryan McKinley <ry...@gmail.com>.
Hello-
Life has swooped up most of my time (baby, work etc)... so I have not
been able to focus on droids at all. Earlier this year, i think we
added two more committers, but i think things have been pretty quiet
since then:
http://search-lucene.com/m/49fNpCl04N
http://search-lucene.com/m/Via2e2c1VPF
In general, patches are *the* way to get karma and move the project
forward. It is easy for us to talk about wanting the project to
improve, but without action not much will happen. For people who want
to help keep droids alive, patches are the best way to help.
ryan
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Richard Frovarp <rf...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 11/22/2010 08:48 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>>
>> A patch that fixes this, and just this would be easy to review and apply.
>>
>> If you have the energy and desire then go for it. If not - fair enough
>> let's allow Droids to go to sleep.
>>
>> This was suggested recently, people said "no", we need to see community
>> and code if the project is to stay alive.
>>
>> I don't use it. I don't care one way or the other - if others cars then
>> I'll apply appropriate parches until someone earns sufficient merit.
>>
>> Ross
>>
>
> Thank you Ross.
>
> I think what we're seeing here is that there is a community interested in
> using Droids. However, either they're not sure on how to use it
> (documentation), or not sure if they're contributions back will be
> committed.
>
> To the community:
>
> For documentation, it is true that many of us don't like writing
> documentation. Perhaps it might be useful if people started asking questions
> about how to do X. That can help guide where the documentation needs to go.
> Others on this list may have answers to your questions.
>
> If you have patches or enhancements, offer them up. Put them into Jira so
> that we can all see them and make sure they get applied.
>
> Richard
>
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Richard Frovarp <rf...@apache.org>.
On 11/22/2010 08:48 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> A patch that fixes this, and just this would be easy to review and apply.
>
> If you have the energy and desire then go for it. If not - fair enough let's allow Droids to go to sleep.
>
> This was suggested recently, people said "no", we need to see community and code if the project is to stay alive.
>
> I don't use it. I don't care one way or the other - if others cars then I'll apply appropriate parches until someone earns sufficient merit.
>
> Ross
>
Thank you Ross.
I think what we're seeing here is that there is a community interested
in using Droids. However, either they're not sure on how to use it
(documentation), or not sure if they're contributions back will be
committed.
To the community:
For documentation, it is true that many of us don't like writing
documentation. Perhaps it might be useful if people started asking
questions about how to do X. That can help guide where the documentation
needs to go. Others on this list may have answers to your questions.
If you have patches or enhancements, offer them up. Put them into Jira
so that we can all see them and make sure they get applied.
Richard
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
A patch that fixes this, and just this would be easy to review and apply.
If you have the energy and desire then go for it. If not - fair enough let's allow Droids to go to sleep.
This was suggested recently, people said "no", we need to see community and code if the project is to stay alive.
I don't use it. I don't care one way or the other - if others cars then I'll apply appropriate parches until someone earns sufficient merit.
Ross
Sent from my mobile device.
On 22 Nov 2010, at 14:11, "Fuad Efendi" <fu...@efendi.ca> wrote:
>
> For instance, having base class with Logger (non-static, non-final) seems as a very junior-level (bad!) staff; 1000s logger instances for 1000s instances of the same class; should I contribute huge patch for this?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@apache.org]
> Sent: November-22-10 6:04 AM
> To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Droids Dev list
> Subject: Re: Who take the lead ?
>
> We don't have leaders in ASF projects. What is needed is for people to participate.
>
> If those who have shown interest are not committers then they need to submit patches and existing committers or mentors will deal with them until we vote in new committers
>
> Let's see those patches...
>
> Sent from my mobile device.
>
> On 22 Nov 2010, at 09:46, florent andré <fl...@4sengines.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We are many to be interesting in this great Droids project and have
>> many ideas for the future (recent mails show this).
>>
>> Thorsten, thanks to him, leads this project till now, but don't have
>> still much time for it (and we understand him ! :) )
>>
>> So, I think it could be cool if someone (or two, three,...) with
>> enough karma, can charge of taking the lead of this project.
>>
>> Have a lead is a requirement to ensure a good growing of "baby Droids"
>> imho.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> ++
>
RE: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Fuad Efendi <fu...@efendi.ca>.
For instance, having base class with Logger (non-static, non-final) seems as a very junior-level (bad!) staff; 1000s logger instances for 1000s instances of the same class; should I contribute huge patch for this?
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@apache.org]
Sent: November-22-10 6:04 AM
To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
Cc: Droids Dev list
Subject: Re: Who take the lead ?
We don't have leaders in ASF projects. What is needed is for people to participate.
If those who have shown interest are not committers then they need to submit patches and existing committers or mentors will deal with them until we vote in new committers
Let's see those patches...
Sent from my mobile device.
On 22 Nov 2010, at 09:46, florent andré <fl...@4sengines.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We are many to be interesting in this great Droids project and have
> many ideas for the future (recent mails show this).
>
> Thorsten, thanks to him, leads this project till now, but don't have
> still much time for it (and we understand him ! :) )
>
> So, I think it could be cool if someone (or two, three,...) with
> enough karma, can charge of taking the lead of this project.
>
> Have a lead is a requirement to ensure a good growing of "baby Droids"
> imho.
>
> Cheers,
> ++
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
I'm not a committer, but I am a mentor.
Submit your patches and they will be reviewed and applied.
As for docs, I agree.
Submit your patches and they will be reviewed and applied.
Submit enough patches and you'll get commit rights - problem solved.
Ross
Sent from my mobile device.
On 22 Nov 2010, at 13:14, Paul Rogalinski <pa...@paul.vc> wrote:
> 100% Agree,
>
> I see no point in commiting any patches as long nobody feels responsible for reviewing & incorporating those into the svn-trunk. That would come very close to a project lead as I had it in mind. Can be one person or a group - I don't care as long there is some instance responsible for steering the project. This involves some JIRA maintenance, code reviews, discussions about the idea of the project (what should and what should not go into droids-core), coordinating documentation efforts etc.
>
> I wonder how many committers are still active around here?
>
> Regards,
> Paul Rogalinski.
>
> Tony Dietrich wrote:
>> While there may not be an official 'post' of project leader, it has long been my experience that any project benefits from someone to co-ordinate it, motivate the contributors, arbitrate disputes and provide direction.
>>
>> This applies equally to open source projects such as Droids.
>>
>> One of the missing factors in this particular project which probably contributes significantly to the lack of uptake is the lack of documentation. No-one LIKES writing tech docs, but without them it makes it extremely difficult for anyone to adopt the technology without investing huge amounts of time.
>> I've been monitoring this project for some time, as a mature Droids implementation would be useful in another project I'm involved in. I understand the objectives - but simply haven't the time amongst other projects to delve into the code to figure out how to actually use Droids. A simple example project would be of great use to adopters.
>>
>> <just my observation>
>>
>> Tony Dietrich
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@apache.org]
>> Sent: 22 November 2010 11:04
>> To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Cc: Droids Dev list
>> Subject: Re: Who take the lead ?
>>
>> We don't have leaders in ASF projects. What is needed is for people to participate.
>>
>> If those who have shown interest are not committers then they need to submit patches and existing committers or mentors will deal with them until we vote in new committers
>>
>> Let's see those patches...
>>
>> Sent from my mobile device.
>>
>> On 22 Nov 2010, at 09:46, florent andré<fl...@4sengines.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> We are many to be interesting in this great Droids project and have many
>>> ideas for the future (recent mails show this).
>>>
>>> Thorsten, thanks to him, leads this project till now, but don't have
>>> still much time for it (and we understand him ! :) )
>>>
>>> So, I think it could be cool if someone (or two, three,...) with enough
>>> karma, can charge of taking the lead of this project.
>>>
>>> Have a lead is a requirement to ensure a good growing of "baby Droids"
>>> imho.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> ++
>>
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Paul Rogalinski <pa...@paul.vc>.
100% Agree,
I see no point in commiting any patches as long nobody feels responsible
for reviewing & incorporating those into the svn-trunk. That would come
very close to a project lead as I had it in mind. Can be one person or a
group - I don't care as long there is some instance responsible for
steering the project. This involves some JIRA maintenance, code reviews,
discussions about the idea of the project (what should and what should
not go into droids-core), coordinating documentation efforts etc.
I wonder how many committers are still active around here?
Regards,
Paul Rogalinski.
Tony Dietrich wrote:
> While there may not be an official 'post' of project leader, it has long been my experience that any project benefits from someone to co-ordinate it, motivate the contributors, arbitrate disputes and provide direction.
>
> This applies equally to open source projects such as Droids.
>
> One of the missing factors in this particular project which probably contributes significantly to the lack of uptake is the lack of documentation. No-one LIKES writing tech docs, but without them it makes it extremely difficult for anyone to adopt the technology without investing huge amounts of time.
> I've been monitoring this project for some time, as a mature Droids implementation would be useful in another project I'm involved in. I understand the objectives - but simply haven't the time amongst other projects to delve into the code to figure out how to actually use Droids. A simple example project would be of great use to adopters.
>
> <just my observation>
>
> Tony Dietrich
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@apache.org]
> Sent: 22 November 2010 11:04
> To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Droids Dev list
> Subject: Re: Who take the lead ?
>
> We don't have leaders in ASF projects. What is needed is for people to participate.
>
> If those who have shown interest are not committers then they need to submit patches and existing committers or mentors will deal with them until we vote in new committers
>
> Let's see those patches...
>
> Sent from my mobile device.
>
> On 22 Nov 2010, at 09:46, florent andré<fl...@4sengines.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We are many to be interesting in this great Droids project and have many
>> ideas for the future (recent mails show this).
>>
>> Thorsten, thanks to him, leads this project till now, but don't have
>> still much time for it (and we understand him ! :) )
>>
>> So, I think it could be cool if someone (or two, three,...) with enough
>> karma, can charge of taking the lead of this project.
>>
>> Have a lead is a requirement to ensure a good growing of "baby Droids"
>> imho.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> ++
>
RE: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Tony Dietrich <to...@dietrich.org.uk>.
While there may not be an official 'post' of project leader, it has long been my experience that any project benefits from someone to co-ordinate it, motivate the contributors, arbitrate disputes and provide direction.
This applies equally to open source projects such as Droids.
One of the missing factors in this particular project which probably contributes significantly to the lack of uptake is the lack of documentation. No-one LIKES writing tech docs, but without them it makes it extremely difficult for anyone to adopt the technology without investing huge amounts of time.
I've been monitoring this project for some time, as a mature Droids implementation would be useful in another project I'm involved in. I understand the objectives - but simply haven't the time amongst other projects to delve into the code to figure out how to actually use Droids. A simple example project would be of great use to adopters.
<just my observation>
Tony Dietrich
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@apache.org]
Sent: 22 November 2010 11:04
To: droids-dev@incubator.apache.org
Cc: Droids Dev list
Subject: Re: Who take the lead ?
We don't have leaders in ASF projects. What is needed is for people to participate.
If those who have shown interest are not committers then they need to submit patches and existing committers or mentors will deal with them until we vote in new committers
Let's see those patches...
Sent from my mobile device.
On 22 Nov 2010, at 09:46, florent andré <fl...@4sengines.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We are many to be interesting in this great Droids project and have many
> ideas for the future (recent mails show this).
>
> Thorsten, thanks to him, leads this project till now, but don't have
> still much time for it (and we understand him ! :) )
>
> So, I think it could be cool if someone (or two, three,...) with enough
> karma, can charge of taking the lead of this project.
>
> Have a lead is a requirement to ensure a good growing of "baby Droids"
> imho.
>
> Cheers,
> ++
Re: Who take the lead ?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
We don't have leaders in ASF projects. What is needed is for people to participate.
If those who have shown interest are not committers then they need to submit patches and existing committers or mentors will deal with them until we vote in new committers
Let's see those patches...
Sent from my mobile device.
On 22 Nov 2010, at 09:46, florent andré <fl...@4sengines.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We are many to be interesting in this great Droids project and have many
> ideas for the future (recent mails show this).
>
> Thorsten, thanks to him, leads this project till now, but don't have
> still much time for it (and we understand him ! :) )
>
> So, I think it could be cool if someone (or two, three,...) with enough
> karma, can charge of taking the lead of this project.
>
> Have a lead is a requirement to ensure a good growing of "baby Droids"
> imho.
>
> Cheers,
> ++