Becoming part of the Ant project ?

[Nicolas Lalevée <ni...@hibnet.org>]

Hi guys,

There was some discussion on the general@incubator.a.o mailing list [1] and it appears that I misunderstood the sponsoring of the Ant project to EasyAnt. Maybe some of you too, so let's clear it out.

The question is quite simple: do we want to be part of the Ant PMC or do we want to build an independent PMC ?

If we want to build an independent PMC, then we should show that we can manage a PMC by building a community, handling IP issues, releasing following the ASF guidelines, etc... This is the so called incubation. And at some point we would "graduate" to be a PMC.

If we want to be part of the Ant PMC, it means the Ant PMC is willing to manage the code and the releases of EasyAnt. So we don't have to do particular incubation, at least some IP clearance (which we already did). The EasyAnt code would then be imported into Ant svn tree and we would all get to be committers there. But releases would be voted by the Ant PMC. I'm the only active EasyAnt committer which is also an Ant PMC member. So we would have to rely on the other Ant PMC members to be available to vote on our releases, since we need at least 3 binding votes. That's also why if we choose this route, the Ant PMC will have to vote to accept us before anything can happen. This dependance on people not particularly involved in EasyAnt would somehow resolve itself if some of you get promoted to be part of the Ant PMC which I have no doubt it would happen :).

For my part, I understood the Ant sponsoring as becoming eventually part of Ant, which is wrong, the incubator is even discussing about to remove this project sponsoring concept. So I am in favor of the second choice.

What do you prefer ?

Nicolas

[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201207.mbox/%3CCAOFYJNaLt1gFkMMeGq8m58exvvSX3LjO%2BGLWSG7t53w9-e_XPw%40mail.gmail.com%3E

Re: Becoming part of the Ant project ?

[Jean-Louis Boudart <je...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

I was watching the discussion today, and like you i misunderstood the
sponsoring of Ant project to EasyAnt.

I don't see any advantage to build an independent PMC.

EasyAnt is build on top of ant and ivy, and it doesn't mean we just want to
use the library under the hood. EasyAnt is here also to promote those
powerful tools and bring fresh ideas, we already contributed features to
both project, and i'm pretty sure we will continue in this way. As we
depend on those project and really plan to contribute to them i would feel
more confortable if Ant PMC is aware about easyant release and vice et
versa.

EasyAnt will try to be always using upstream version of both project, and
particular needs for us could probably "stimulate" ant or ivy release
frequency.

If one day, some of us becomes part of Ant PMC,  we could also help on
releasing Ant + Ivy.

So i think it's clear enough i prefer second choice.

Cheers,
Jean-Louis Boudart
Le 5 juil. 2012 20:26, "Nicolas Lalevée" <ni...@hibnet.org> a
écrit :

> Hi guys,
>
> There was some discussion on the general@incubator.a.o mailing list [1]
> and it appears that I misunderstood the sponsoring of the Ant project to
> EasyAnt. Maybe some of you too, so let's clear it out.
>
> The question is quite simple: do we want to be part of the Ant PMC or do
> we want to build an independent PMC ?
>
> If we want to build an independent PMC, then we should show that we can
> manage a PMC by building a community, handling IP issues, releasing
> following the ASF guidelines, etc... This is the so called incubation. And
> at some point we would "graduate" to be a PMC.
>
> If we want to be part of the Ant PMC, it means the Ant PMC is willing to
> manage the code and the releases of EasyAnt. So we don't have to do
> particular incubation, at least some IP clearance (which we already did).
> The EasyAnt code would then be imported into Ant svn tree and we would all
> get to be committers there. But releases would be voted by the Ant PMC. I'm
> the only active EasyAnt committer which is also an Ant PMC member. So we
> would have to rely on the other Ant PMC members to be available to vote on
> our releases, since we need at least 3 binding votes. That's also why if we
> choose this route, the Ant PMC will have to vote to accept us before
> anything can happen. This dependance on people not particularly involved in
> EasyAnt would somehow resolve itself if some of you get promoted to be part
> of the Ant PMC which I have no doubt it would happen :).
>
> For my part, I understood the Ant sponsoring as becoming eventually part
> of Ant, which is wrong, the incubator is even discussing about to remove
> this project sponsoring concept. So I am in favor of the second choice.
>
> What do you prefer ?
>
> Nicolas
>
> [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201207.mbox/%3CCAOFYJNaLt1gFkMMeGq8m58exvvSX3LjO%2BGLWSG7t53w9-e_XPw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>
>

Re: Becoming part of the Ant project ?

[Nicolas Lalevée <ni...@hibnet.org>]

Le 11 juil. 2012 à 09:09, Jean-Louis Boudart a écrit :

> As no one objects could we follow this discution to ant-dev ML and see Ant
> PMC's position ?

After almost one week, 2 positive answers, no objection, so I we are good. :)

I'll start a vote on the ant-dev mailing list.

Nicolas

> Le 6 juil. 2012 15:35, "Stefan Bodewig" <bo...@apache.org> a écrit :
> 
>> On 2012-07-05, Nicolas Lalevée wrote:
>> 
>>> There was some discussion on the general@incubator.a.o mailing list
>>> [1] and it appears that I misunderstood the sponsoring of the Ant
>>> project to EasyAnt. Maybe some of you too, so let's clear it out.
>> 
>> It seems nobody understands the concept of project sponsorship (anymore)
>> or at least there doesn't seem to be consensus.  It could very well be
>> the case I'm the one who is misunderstanding things.
>> 
>> All I wanted to point out is that there is no automatism that Ant would
>> accept EasyAnt as a subproject "just because" it once sponsored entry
>> into the incubator.  OTOH I don't expect the Ant PMC to reject it
>> either, nobody has raised the question so far AFAIK.
>> 
>> Many thanks for Nicolas for starting the discussion here.
>> 
>> Stefan
>> 

Re: Becoming part of the Ant project ?

[Jean-Louis Boudart <je...@gmail.com>]

As no one objects could we follow this discution to ant-dev ML and see Ant
PMC's position ?
Le 6 juil. 2012 15:35, "Stefan Bodewig" <bo...@apache.org> a écrit :

> On 2012-07-05, Nicolas Lalevée wrote:
>
> > There was some discussion on the general@incubator.a.o mailing list
> > [1] and it appears that I misunderstood the sponsoring of the Ant
> > project to EasyAnt. Maybe some of you too, so let's clear it out.
>
> It seems nobody understands the concept of project sponsorship (anymore)
> or at least there doesn't seem to be consensus.  It could very well be
> the case I'm the one who is misunderstanding things.
>
> All I wanted to point out is that there is no automatism that Ant would
> accept EasyAnt as a subproject "just because" it once sponsored entry
> into the incubator.  OTOH I don't expect the Ant PMC to reject it
> either, nobody has raised the question so far AFAIK.
>
> Many thanks for Nicolas for starting the discussion here.
>
> Stefan
>

Re: Becoming part of the Ant project ?

[Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>]

On 2012-07-05, Nicolas Lalevée wrote:

> There was some discussion on the general@incubator.a.o mailing list
> [1] and it appears that I misunderstood the sponsoring of the Ant
> project to EasyAnt. Maybe some of you too, so let's clear it out.

It seems nobody understands the concept of project sponsorship (anymore)
or at least there doesn't seem to be consensus.  It could very well be
the case I'm the one who is misunderstanding things.

All I wanted to point out is that there is no automatism that Ant would
accept EasyAnt as a subproject "just because" it once sponsored entry
into the incubator.  OTOH I don't expect the Ant PMC to reject it
either, nobody has raised the question so far AFAIK.

Many thanks for Nicolas for starting the discussion here.

Stefan