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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at> on 2012/02/22 09:17:50 UTC
[OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Today Adobe released the Flash Platform roadmap. [1] I find the
ActionScript Next section quite interesting.
yours
Martin.
[1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplatform/whitepapers/roadmap.html
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Haykel BEN JEMIA <ha...@gmail.com>.
Correct Dimitri. Now users must use Chrome to view Flash content? OK you
say the other browsers can have support added through
Pepper, but who knows if it will ever happen and if it will be up to date.
The plugin will not be available from Adobe anymore, yet another source of
confusion. It has to be downloaded from different sources or worst we have
to install Chrome even if we use Firefox.
Haykel
On 22 February 2012 10:07, Dimitri k. <ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
> From: "Martin Heidegger" <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>
>
> We are not dropping Flash Player support for Linux. Indeed, we are
>>> partnering with Google to provide a more robust implementation and
>>> distribution method:
>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/**flashplayer/2012/02/adobe-and-**
>>> google-partnering-for-flash-**player-on-linux.html<http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2012/02/adobe-and-google-partnering-for-flash-player-on-linux.html>
>>> mike chambers
>>>
>> I think he was referring on AIR for Linux. Pepper is an important step
>> forwards!
>>
>
> No he was referring that future Flash Player linux version will be only
> available in Google Chrome.
>
>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by ganaraj p r <ga...@gmail.com>.
If my understanding is right.. The same flash player works on both Firefox
and Chrome. If this is the same in Linux.. The same Flash Player that can
be installed into chrome ( on linux! ) can also be installed into Firefox?
Do you use any other browsers on Linux?
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 9:20 AM, David Arno <da...@davidarno.org> wrote:
> > From: Dimitri k. [mailto:koro@noos.fr]
> > Sent: 22 February 2012 09:08
> >
> > No he was referring that future Flash Player linux version will be only
> available in Google Chrome.
> I can't decide if that is right or not. As the Pepper API is described as
> "cross-platform API for plugins for web browsers," that implies that other
> browsers could implement it too. If it is cross-platform though, why is
> Adobe ditching direct support for Flash for Linux only?
>
> Sadly, it is another nail in the coffin of Flex as a Flash-based
> technology,
> no matter how one looks at it.
>
> David.
>
>
>
--
Regards,
Ganaraj P R
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Jarosław Szczepankiewicz <js...@gmail.com>.
me to, if the shift of developers from adobe will be from linux team
to the windows team I'am happy with that. Never seen a single customer
with linux browser / desktop in my whole history (b2b market
advertising / marketing / interactive).
2012/2/22 Glenn Williams <in...@tinylion.co.uk>:
> Same here. And I mean no slight on Linux by that
>
> It's just that in all of my development years Ive
> never once been asked to provide for anything
> other than Windows in the enterprise.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roland Zwaga
> [mailto:roland@stackandheap.com]
> Sent: 22 February 2012 09:27
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
>
>>
>> I can't decide if that is right or not. As the
> Pepper API is described
>> as "cross-platform API for plugins for web
> browsers," that implies
>> that other browsers could implement it too. If
> it is cross-platform
>> though, why is Adobe ditching direct support for
> Flash for Linux only?
>>
>> Sadly, it is another nail in the coffin of Flex
> as a Flash-based
>> technology, no matter how one looks at it.
>
>
> I'm not sure if that's true, Flex is aiming to be
> an enterprise technology.
> I must say that
> in my years of doing enterprise development I have
> never encountered a
> company that
> used Linux desktops for their employees. Its all
> windows all the way, with
> Apple slowly
> gaining some ground.
> But that's just my experience of course...
>
> Roland
>
RE: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Glenn Williams <in...@tinylion.co.uk>.
Same here. And I mean no slight on Linux by that
It's just that in all of my development years Ive
never once been asked to provide for anything
other than Windows in the enterprise.
-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Zwaga
[mailto:roland@stackandheap.com]
Sent: 22 February 2012 09:27
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
>
> I can't decide if that is right or not. As the
Pepper API is described
> as "cross-platform API for plugins for web
browsers," that implies
> that other browsers could implement it too. If
it is cross-platform
> though, why is Adobe ditching direct support for
Flash for Linux only?
>
> Sadly, it is another nail in the coffin of Flex
as a Flash-based
> technology, no matter how one looks at it.
I'm not sure if that's true, Flex is aiming to be
an enterprise technology.
I must say that
in my years of doing enterprise development I have
never encountered a
company that
used Linux desktops for their employees. Its all
windows all the way, with
Apple slowly
gaining some ground.
But that's just my experience of course...
Roland
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Avinash Narayanan <av...@gmail.com>.
>From my current experience, my designers are a lot happier knowing we use
flex than HTML5 (currently at least). Mobile/Tablet is a whole different
ball game altogether.
Thanks
Avinash Y
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:23 PM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Flex is also very good for developing non-enterprise applications*
>
> Yes! It is. I think Flex solves many of the most complicated environments.
> Many types of applications can benefit from it.
>
> *Yet*, *hardly anyone is aware of it..*.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:04 AM, Haykel BEN JEMIA <haykelbj@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Flex is also very good for developing non-enterprise applications. In the
> > last couple of years I have developed a couple of applications in the
> > educational and digital publishing fields, all aimed at non-entreprise
> > usage. Flex was perfect for that.
> >
> > Haykel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 22 February 2012 10:27, Roland Zwaga <ro...@stackandheap.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > I can't decide if that is right or not. As the Pepper API is
> described
> > as
> > > > "cross-platform API for plugins for web browsers," that implies that
> > > other
> > > > browsers could implement it too. If it is cross-platform though, why
> is
> > > > Adobe ditching direct support for Flash for Linux only?
> > > >
> > > > Sadly, it is another nail in the coffin of Flex as a Flash-based
> > > > technology,
> > > > no matter how one looks at it.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if that's true, Flex is aiming to be an enterprise
> > technology.
> > > I must say that
> > > in my years of doing enterprise development I have never encountered a
> > > company that
> > > used Linux desktops for their employees. Its all windows all the way,
> > with
> > > Apple slowly
> > > gaining some ground.
> > > But that's just my experience of course...
> > >
> > > Roland
> > >
> >
>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
*Flex is also very good for developing non-enterprise applications*
Yes! It is. I think Flex solves many of the most complicated environments.
Many types of applications can benefit from it.
*Yet*, *hardly anyone is aware of it..*.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:04 AM, Haykel BEN JEMIA <ha...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Flex is also very good for developing non-enterprise applications. In the
> last couple of years I have developed a couple of applications in the
> educational and digital publishing fields, all aimed at non-entreprise
> usage. Flex was perfect for that.
>
> Haykel
>
>
>
>
> On 22 February 2012 10:27, Roland Zwaga <ro...@stackandheap.com> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > I can't decide if that is right or not. As the Pepper API is described
> as
> > > "cross-platform API for plugins for web browsers," that implies that
> > other
> > > browsers could implement it too. If it is cross-platform though, why is
> > > Adobe ditching direct support for Flash for Linux only?
> > >
> > > Sadly, it is another nail in the coffin of Flex as a Flash-based
> > > technology,
> > > no matter how one looks at it.
> >
> >
> > I'm not sure if that's true, Flex is aiming to be an enterprise
> technology.
> > I must say that
> > in my years of doing enterprise development I have never encountered a
> > company that
> > used Linux desktops for their employees. Its all windows all the way,
> with
> > Apple slowly
> > gaining some ground.
> > But that's just my experience of course...
> >
> > Roland
> >
>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Roland Zwaga <ro...@stackandheap.com>.
>
> Perhaps ours is an odd business, but I'd estimate 80% of our users are on
> Linux, the other 20% are on Windows. We provide no support for using our
> products on Macs at all as there is no demand.
Now you're making me curious :) What kind of business are you in?
cheers,
Roland
RE: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by David Arno <da...@davidarno.org>.
> From: Roland Zwaga [mailto:roland@stackandheap.com]
> Sent: 22 February 2012 10:23
>
> I have worked on exactly these types of applications as well.
> Both in education and digital publishing I have exclusively encountered
> Windows boxes and to a degree Apple. Never any Linux on the desktop
anywhere.
Perhaps ours is an odd business, but I'd estimate 80% of our users are on
Linux, the other 20% are on Windows. We provide no support for using our
products on Macs at all as there is no demand.
Clearly the dropping of support for Flash on Linux, except via Google and
its browser (which I don't think we currently support!) hits us a lot harder
than it hits others.
David.
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Roland Zwaga <ro...@stackandheap.com>.
>
> Flex is also very good for developing non-enterprise applications. In the
> last couple of years I have developed a couple of applications in the
> educational and digital publishing fields, all aimed at non-entreprise
> usage. Flex was perfect for that.
I have worked on exactly these types of applications as well. Both in
education
and digital publishing I have exclusively encountered Windows boxes and to
a degree
Apple. Never any Linux on the desktop anywhere.
cheers,
Roland
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Haykel BEN JEMIA <ha...@gmail.com>.
Flex is also very good for developing non-enterprise applications. In the
last couple of years I have developed a couple of applications in the
educational and digital publishing fields, all aimed at non-entreprise
usage. Flex was perfect for that.
Haykel
On 22 February 2012 10:27, Roland Zwaga <ro...@stackandheap.com> wrote:
> >
> > I can't decide if that is right or not. As the Pepper API is described as
> > "cross-platform API for plugins for web browsers," that implies that
> other
> > browsers could implement it too. If it is cross-platform though, why is
> > Adobe ditching direct support for Flash for Linux only?
> >
> > Sadly, it is another nail in the coffin of Flex as a Flash-based
> > technology,
> > no matter how one looks at it.
>
>
> I'm not sure if that's true, Flex is aiming to be an enterprise technology.
> I must say that
> in my years of doing enterprise development I have never encountered a
> company that
> used Linux desktops for their employees. Its all windows all the way, with
> Apple slowly
> gaining some ground.
> But that's just my experience of course...
>
> Roland
>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Roland Zwaga <ro...@stackandheap.com>.
>
> I can't decide if that is right or not. As the Pepper API is described as
> "cross-platform API for plugins for web browsers," that implies that other
> browsers could implement it too. If it is cross-platform though, why is
> Adobe ditching direct support for Flash for Linux only?
>
> Sadly, it is another nail in the coffin of Flex as a Flash-based
> technology,
> no matter how one looks at it.
I'm not sure if that's true, Flex is aiming to be an enterprise technology.
I must say that
in my years of doing enterprise development I have never encountered a
company that
used Linux desktops for their employees. Its all windows all the way, with
Apple slowly
gaining some ground.
But that's just my experience of course...
Roland
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Left Right <ol...@gmail.com>.
Jeffry,
As with many things Macromedia did at the time... I don't know, but they
were some times... well, funny :) That SEO kit was available for
downloading publicly for about a month or so, you only needed an account of
a registered user (which I had, b/c I purchased Flash MX 2004 some time
before than :). So I just downloaded it, but never used for anything. Later
the download was removed, without any further announcements. I lost those
files, eventually formatting my HD (screw Windows! never again) tee-hee...
well, end of story.
Best.
wvxvw
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Left Right <ol...@gmail.com>.
> Redtamarin
Yes, that's the project I was thinking about, but you can't use flash.*
classes with it - so, it's nice, but not very useful, if your purpose was
to test flash.* classes :)
AIR needs X and, I'm not sure why, but it needs a lot of stuff that is
unlikely to run w/o X. Besides, obviously, there's no AIR for Linux since
something like half a year ago I guess... :)
I just out of the interest tried to launch some AIR application w/o X and
the first thing it did it told me Gtk warning * cannot launch display - so,
I guess, that wasn't quite unexpected.
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Left Right <ol...@gmail.com>.
I think MXMLC is already doing that - all that stuff that goes into
metadata, that no one ever fills in - I think it's called XMP or something
like that. :)
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Michael A. Labriola <
labriola@digitalprimates.net> wrote:
> Wasn't arguing if you could.
Oh I know you weren't arguing. I wasn't saying you were wrong. Just
throwing in another opinion of how one person's results when working with
it. My solution though was also middle tier dependent. I've done some
experiments with extending components so that they write out information to
the wrapper for search engines and it worked, the problem was the overhead
added to the framework.
This would probably be best suite by an injected behavior.
--
Jonathan Campos
RE: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by "Michael A. Labriola" <la...@digitalprimates.net>.
>I've done many applications that are SEO compliant using Flex. In my blog I've even outlines a few ways to do this, however there was never something within the framework that fully supported this. I ended up having to make >a bunch of extra logic to make this work, but it was possible.
Wasn't arguing if you could. More that it always seemed to be Flex was the realm of apps and, in my experience with the ones I have worked on, didn't have the same requirements for SEO. Always seemed when this requirements was in play it was something straddling the border of what I think of as an application and a rich functional web site.
Mike
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Michael A. Labriola <
labriola@digitalprimates.net> wrote:
> This topic is extremely interesting. I have always told my clients that if
> you needed SEO with a Flex app, you were likely pondering the wrong
> technology. I have never seen Flex apps as something that should be indexed
> anymore than the buttons in Microsoft word.
>
> Mike
>
I've done many applications that are SEO compliant using Flex. In my blog
I've even outlines a few ways to do this, however there was never something
within the framework that fully supported this. I ended up having to make a
bunch of extra logic to make this work, but it was possible.
--
Jonathan Campos
RE: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by "Michael A. Labriola" <la...@digitalprimates.net>.
>I used to develop my "all flash" homepages in a way that I represented
>all the data structure I accessed as HTML pages.
>So I got all indexable content out with regular lists and content first.
>Then I started with the Flash Homepage and built it entirely on the
>content of the container homepage: Every Data "resource"
>that I took I pulled of the same underlying system including the html
>code. If I wanted a new "content" I had to add that service to the html
>page. Then I looked that the links worked: So If you browsed down to
>apage/acontent then it send the browser (with flash) to a the index
>page with that url in the background:
>mypage.com/#apage/acontent And the page used this as starting point.
>
>At the end of the day I had all index-able content available as HTML
>and all visible content in the Flash. I used same mechanisms parallel
>for ajax homepages and it worked out quite well.
>
>Do you think a discussion about a examples or a development model in
>this direction would be reasonable?
>
>yours
>Martin.
>
This topic is extremely interesting. I have always told my clients that if you needed SEO with a Flex app, you were likely pondering the wrong technology. I have never seen Flex apps as something that should be indexed anymore than the buttons in Microsoft word.
Mike
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
Compiler list? Developer mailing-list: anything Flex related :)
Anways: I think this discussion is important because a development model
on a XHTML data structure/provider could allow a Flash AND HTML
development model.
Just because websites are not made in Flash anymore doesn't mean rich
websites will never be made with Flex ;)
Regarding the beer invitation: I am living in Japan these days so it
might get tough. Thanks for the invitation though!
yours
Martin.
On 28/02/2012 05:32, Duane Nickull wrote:
> It is a very valuable discussion to have. I am just not sure if it
> belongs in the Compiler list.
>
> FWIW - I used XHTML data providers. Having the keyword in<title> for a
> better initial ranking.
>
> BTW - I will be in Vienna next week if you want to grab a beer to discuss?
>
> Duane
> ________________________________________
>
> Überity.com
> President& COO
> Adobe LiveCycle ES Consultant Services
> http://www.uberity.com
> Blog | http://technoracle.blogspot.com
> Twitter | @Uberity @duanechaos
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12-02-27 11:46 AM, "Martin Heidegger"<mh...@leichtgewicht.at> wrote:
>
>> Hello Duane,
>>
>> I used to develop my "all flash" homepages in a way that I represented
>> all the data structure I accessed as HTML pages.
>> So I got all indexable content out with regular lists and content first.
>> Then I started with the Flash Homepage and built it
>> entirely on the content of the container homepage: Every Data "resource"
>> that I took I pulled of the same underlying system
>> including the html code. If I wanted a new "content" I had to add that
>> service to the html page. Then I looked that the links worked: So If you
>> browsed down to apage/acontent then it send the browser (with flash) to
>> a the index page with that url in the background:
>> mypage.com/#apage/acontent And the page used this as starting point.
>>
>> At the end of the day I had all index-able content available as HTML and
>> all visible content in the Flash. I used same mechanisms
>> parallel for ajax homepages and it worked out quite well.
>>
>> Do you think a discussion about a examples or a development model in
>> this direction would be reasonable?
>>
>> yours
>> Martin.
>>
>>
>> On 28/02/2012 04:20, Duane Nickull wrote:
>>> It used to. To understand how the system works, watch this video:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://technoracle.blogspot.com/2009/01/flash-search-engine-optimization.
>>> ht
>>> ml
>>>
>>> And this video:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-evangelists-duane-nickull/seo-secrets-tec
>>> hn
>>> ology-and-magic-behind-flash/
>>>
>>>
>>> The second one is more important and it start around the 6 minute mark
>>> (not sure why Adobe never trimmed it).
>>>
>>> I honestly think that after watching these, you will all agree there is
>>> nothing that belongs on an SDK discussion list WRT SEO. It is simply
>>> not
>>> needed.
>>>
>>> Duane
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>>
>>> Überity.com
>>> President& COO
>>> Adobe LiveCycle ES Consultant Services
>>> http://www.uberity.com
>>> Blog | http://technoracle.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter | @Uberity @duanechaos
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12-02-27 10:57 AM, "Omar Gonzalez"<om...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Left Right<ol...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... and white
>>>>> text on white background with postion: absolute top -1000px has a
>>>>> better
>>>>> chance to affect the crawler than that thing does...
>>>>>
>>>> That also has a high chance of getting you blacklisted off of search
>>>> engines. I wouldn't recommend anyone to do this.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Omar Gonzalez
>>>> s9tpepper@apache.org
>>>> Apache Flex PPMC Member
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Duane Nickull <du...@uberity.com>.
It is a very valuable discussion to have. I am just not sure if it
belongs in the Compiler list.
FWIW - I used XHTML data providers. Having the keyword in <title> for a
better initial ranking.
BTW - I will be in Vienna next week if you want to grab a beer to discuss?
Duane
________________________________________
Überity.com
President & COO
Adobe LiveCycle ES Consultant Services
http://www.uberity.com
Blog | http://technoracle.blogspot.com
Twitter | @Uberity @duanechaos
On 12-02-27 11:46 AM, "Martin Heidegger" <mh...@leichtgewicht.at> wrote:
>Hello Duane,
>
>I used to develop my "all flash" homepages in a way that I represented
>all the data structure I accessed as HTML pages.
>So I got all indexable content out with regular lists and content first.
>Then I started with the Flash Homepage and built it
>entirely on the content of the container homepage: Every Data "resource"
>that I took I pulled of the same underlying system
>including the html code. If I wanted a new "content" I had to add that
>service to the html page. Then I looked that the links worked: So If you
>browsed down to apage/acontent then it send the browser (with flash) to
>a the index page with that url in the background:
>mypage.com/#apage/acontent And the page used this as starting point.
>
>At the end of the day I had all index-able content available as HTML and
>all visible content in the Flash. I used same mechanisms
>parallel for ajax homepages and it worked out quite well.
>
>Do you think a discussion about a examples or a development model in
>this direction would be reasonable?
>
>yours
>Martin.
>
>
>On 28/02/2012 04:20, Duane Nickull wrote:
>> It used to. To understand how the system works, watch this video:
>>
>>
>>http://technoracle.blogspot.com/2009/01/flash-search-engine-optimization.
>>ht
>> ml
>>
>> And this video:
>>
>>
>>http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-evangelists-duane-nickull/seo-secrets-tec
>>hn
>> ology-and-magic-behind-flash/
>>
>>
>> The second one is more important and it start around the 6 minute mark
>> (not sure why Adobe never trimmed it).
>>
>> I honestly think that after watching these, you will all agree there is
>> nothing that belongs on an SDK discussion list WRT SEO. It is simply
>>not
>> needed.
>>
>> Duane
>>
>> ________________________________________
>>
>> Überity.com
>> President& COO
>> Adobe LiveCycle ES Consultant Services
>> http://www.uberity.com
>> Blog | http://technoracle.blogspot.com
>> Twitter | @Uberity @duanechaos
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12-02-27 10:57 AM, "Omar Gonzalez"<om...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Left Right<ol...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... and white
>>>> text on white background with postion: absolute top -1000px has a
>>>>better
>>>> chance to affect the crawler than that thing does...
>>>>
>>> That also has a high chance of getting you blacklisted off of search
>>> engines. I wouldn't recommend anyone to do this.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Omar Gonzalez
>>> s9tpepper@apache.org
>>> Apache Flex PPMC Member
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
Hello Duane,
I used to develop my "all flash" homepages in a way that I represented
all the data structure I accessed as HTML pages.
So I got all indexable content out with regular lists and content first.
Then I started with the Flash Homepage and built it
entirely on the content of the container homepage: Every Data "resource"
that I took I pulled of the same underlying system
including the html code. If I wanted a new "content" I had to add that
service to the html page. Then I looked that the links worked: So If you
browsed down to apage/acontent then it send the browser (with flash) to
a the index page with that url in the background:
mypage.com/#apage/acontent And the page used this as starting point.
At the end of the day I had all index-able content available as HTML and
all visible content in the Flash. I used same mechanisms
parallel for ajax homepages and it worked out quite well.
Do you think a discussion about a examples or a development model in
this direction would be reasonable?
yours
Martin.
On 28/02/2012 04:20, Duane Nickull wrote:
> It used to. To understand how the system works, watch this video:
>
> http://technoracle.blogspot.com/2009/01/flash-search-engine-optimization.ht
> ml
>
> And this video:
>
> http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-evangelists-duane-nickull/seo-secrets-techn
> ology-and-magic-behind-flash/
>
>
> The second one is more important and it start around the 6 minute mark
> (not sure why Adobe never trimmed it).
>
> I honestly think that after watching these, you will all agree there is
> nothing that belongs on an SDK discussion list WRT SEO. It is simply not
> needed.
>
> Duane
>
> ________________________________________
>
> Überity.com
> President& COO
> Adobe LiveCycle ES Consultant Services
> http://www.uberity.com
> Blog | http://technoracle.blogspot.com
> Twitter | @Uberity @duanechaos
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12-02-27 10:57 AM, "Omar Gonzalez"<om...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Left Right<ol...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ... and white
>>> text on white background with postion: absolute top -1000px has a better
>>> chance to affect the crawler than that thing does...
>>>
>> That also has a high chance of getting you blacklisted off of search
>> engines. I wouldn't recommend anyone to do this.
>>
>> --
>> Omar Gonzalez
>> s9tpepper@apache.org
>> Apache Flex PPMC Member
>
>
>
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>.
This is basically the exact method I've used in the past with great
success.
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by David Francis Buhler <da...@gmail.com>.
I think this is an excellent idea.
The ANT Task could replace user-defined tokens inside both the HTML pages
and .AS/MXML files for copy.
BTW:The older Flash Ford Sync website (2009?) had an alternative HTML
version that displayed the same content as the Flash Version (complete with
images and menu options). The Flash version ranked very well on Google as a
result.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 1:06 PM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> With both of the above solutions we could create or have a gui to create a
> sitemap.xml file that defines the fragments our apps listen for and the
> redirect links to get the raw content. We could also have the compiler or
> ant task support the creation of multiple HTML wrapper pages that are
> identical to the main wrapper page except in their name and / or the option
> of embedding the content into the page (if html) or if dynamic content it
> would point to a dynamic page.
>
>
>
> Example sitemap.xml
> <site>
> <page name="home" url="http://example.com/main/#home" rawcontent="
> http://example.com/main.php?page=home" html="http://example.com/home.html"
> />
> <page name="products" url="http://example.com/main/#products"
> rawcontent="
> http://example.com/main.php?page=products"
> html="http://example.com/products.html"/>
> </site>
>
> Site.xml ex 2
> <site>
> <page name="home" url="http://example.com/main/#home" ajax="
> http://example.com/main.php?p=10" />
> <page name="products" url="http://example.com/main/#p=10" ajax="
> http://example.com/main/main.php?p=10" />
> </site>
>
>
> If we supported something like this and just started using and uploading it
> in our projects it might remove the complexities for the search engines.
>
>
> [1]
>
> http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/10/proposal-for-making-ajax-crawlable.html
> [2]
>
> http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/10/proposal-for-making-ajax-crawlable.html?showComment=1256080765377#c3966241161139678970
> [3] http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/flexcapacitor
> [4] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrx30KahIc
> [5] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmIz6Upc6dY
>
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Duane Nickull <du...@uberity.com>.
Jude:
On 12-02-28 10:06 AM, "jude" <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Here is my comment [2].
>
>I think SEO search results come down to popularity. Is everyone linking to
>your page? It might have something to do with Google analytics. How long
>people stay on your page.
DN: Amen brother! That is correct.
>
>But as a content creator I think it's up to the search engine to find and
>index my site. I'm not going to do the search engines job. It's their job
>to find my site and index it. That doesn't mean I won't help them.
DN: now you're two for two in my books. They usually do this based on
everyone else linking. The best way to force google to index a site is to
use blogger and build links. Google owns blogger and it seems to work
much faster for indexing than other blog platforms.
>
>I think if we focused on making amazing Flash and Flex websites that
>people
>want to visit the search engine companies would spend more time on making
>their search engines work with it.
DN; now 3 for 3 in my books.
>
>
>Solutions
> Link Manager type of support with some or all of the below [3] [4] [5]
> Site map that has user URL and content URL
> Site map that has flash / ajax enabled URL, html page URL and content
>URL
>
>With both of the above solutions we could create or have a gui to create a
>sitemap.xml file that defines the fragments our apps listen for and the
>redirect links to get the raw content. We could also have the compiler or
>ant task support the creation of multiple HTML wrapper pages that are
>identical to the main wrapper page except in their name and / or the
>option
>of embedding the content into the page (if html) or if dynamic content it
>would point to a dynamic page.
DN: This is perhaps one of the first solid ideas I have heard. This might
involve extensions to the site map.xml (I haven't looked at it for a
while) but very well worth the time. Being able to map to a page that has
state 1, state 2 and state 3, but 2 and 3 are not put into active memory
until the app is interacted with is problematic. Authoring using the deep
linking is much better IMO as it adheres to the one resource <-> one URI
principle.
Now this comes back to the original question of "what can be done on this
list via the SDK?". Being able to generate this artifact would be a good
idea IMO.
Thanks
Duane
>
>
>
>Example sitemap.xml
><site>
> <page name="home" url="http://example.com/main/#home" rawcontent="
>http://example.com/main.php?page=home" html="http://example.com/home.html"
>/>
> <page name="products" url="http://example.com/main/#products"
>rawcontent="
>http://example.com/main.php?page=products"
>html="http://example.com/products.html"/>
></site>
>
>Site.xml ex 2
><site>
> <page name="home" url="http://example.com/main/#home" ajax="
>http://example.com/main.php?p=10" />
> <page name="products" url="http://example.com/main/#p=10" ajax="
>http://example.com/main/main.php?p=10" />
></site>
>
>
>If we supported something like this and just started using and uploading
>it
>in our projects it might remove the complexities for the search engines.
>
>
>[1]
>http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/10/proposal-for-making-aja
>x-crawlable.html
>[2]
>http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/10/proposal-for-making-aja
>x-crawlable.html?showComment=1256080765377#c3966241161139678970
>[3] http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/flexcapacitor
>[4] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrx30KahIc
>[5] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmIz6Upc6dY
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
A few years ago Google posted a proposal for making ajax crawlable [1].
You'll need to read it to get the details but basically if you used a
special URL it would return only the data result not the view. To quote,
In summary, starting with a stateful URL such as
http://example.com/dictionary.html#AJAX , it could be available to both
crawlers and users as
http://example.com/dictionary.html#!AJAX which could be crawled as
http://example.com/dictionary.html?_escaped_fragment_=AJAX which in turn
would be shown to users and accessed as
http://example.com/dictionary.html#!AJAX
End quote.
Here is my comment [2].
I think SEO search results come down to popularity. Is everyone linking to
your page? It might have something to do with Google analytics. How long
people stay on your page.
But as a content creator I think it's up to the search engine to find and
index my site. I'm not going to do the search engines job. It's their job
to find my site and index it. That doesn't mean I won't help them.
I think if we focused on making amazing Flash and Flex websites that people
want to visit the search engine companies would spend more time on making
their search engines work with it.
Solutions
• Link Manager type of support with some or all of the below [3] [4] [5]
• Site map that has user URL and content URL
• Site map that has flash / ajax enabled URL, html page URL and content URL
With both of the above solutions we could create or have a gui to create a
sitemap.xml file that defines the fragments our apps listen for and the
redirect links to get the raw content. We could also have the compiler or
ant task support the creation of multiple HTML wrapper pages that are
identical to the main wrapper page except in their name and / or the option
of embedding the content into the page (if html) or if dynamic content it
would point to a dynamic page.
Example sitemap.xml
<site>
<page name="home" url="http://example.com/main/#home" rawcontent="
http://example.com/main.php?page=home" html="http://example.com/home.html"
/>
<page name="products" url="http://example.com/main/#products" rawcontent="
http://example.com/main.php?page=products"
html="http://example.com/products.html"/>
</site>
Site.xml ex 2
<site>
<page name="home" url="http://example.com/main/#home" ajax="
http://example.com/main.php?p=10" />
<page name="products" url="http://example.com/main/#p=10" ajax="
http://example.com/main/main.php?p=10" />
</site>
If we supported something like this and just started using and uploading it
in our projects it might remove the complexities for the search engines.
[1]
http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/10/proposal-for-making-ajax-crawlable.html
[2]
http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/10/proposal-for-making-ajax-crawlable.html?showComment=1256080765377#c3966241161139678970
[3] http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/flexcapacitor
[4] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrx30KahIc
[5] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmIz6Upc6dY
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Duane Nickull <du...@uberity.com>.
On 12-02-27 6:35 PM, "David Francis Buhler" <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>While I respect your opinion that my theory is factually wrong, I
>respectfully disagree. The cloaking theory I suggested is possible, and
>does not require a Google Appliance. If cloaking is a violation of
>Google's
>Terms, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
>
>[1] http://www.petitiononline.com/stopee/petition.html
>[2]
>http://blog.tylerholmes.com/2008/10/experts-exchangeno-longer-cloaking-jus
>t.html
>[3] http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66355
Let me clarify, I agree that technically what you suggest can work. From
a business perspective though, Google says that what they index must be
the same as what people see on the current site.
Duane
>>
>> Überity.com
>> President & COO
>> Adobe LiveCycle ES Consultant Services
>> http://www.uberity.com
>> Blog | http://technoracle.blogspot.com
>> Twitter | @Uberity @duanechaos
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 2/27/12 3:22 PM, "Duane Nickull" <du...@uberity.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > DN: I have never seen any evidence of google using content it can
>> >>access.
>> >> > Same for Bing and Yahoo. Flex can basically give it 500 words but
>>for
>> >> > starters Google only takes 200 per site in most cases. They can
>>all
>> >>get
>> >> > text today, but the reality is they don't appear to use it. I am
>>not
>> >> sure
>> >> > how you think an SDK will force them to use it.
>> >> I'm not saying the SDK will try to force anybody to use anything. I
>> >>just
>> >> thought there were issues where folks want to have more control over
>> >>what
>> >> text is found in a SWF, what links are found in the SWF and what
>>buttons
>> >> get
>> >> pushed. I don't remember how Ichabod knew to push the buttons in
>> >> FlexStore.
>> >> >
>> >> > As for Authentication, most pages that require authentication are
>> >> probably
>> >> > not mean to be indexed as the human finding the link to it would
>>face
>> >>the
>> >> > same challenge. What would be the point?
>> >> I think it is expertsexchange.com that seems to be well indexed but
>>you
>> >> have
>> >> to authenticate first. I don't know how they do that.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Alex Harui
>> >> Flex SDK Team
>> >> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>> >> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by David Francis Buhler <da...@gmail.com>.
While I respect your opinion that my theory is factually wrong, I
respectfully disagree. The cloaking theory I suggested is possible, and
does not require a Google Appliance. If cloaking is a violation of Google's
Terms, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
[1] http://www.petitiononline.com/stopee/petition.html
[2]
http://blog.tylerholmes.com/2008/10/experts-exchangeno-longer-cloaking-just.html
[3] http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66355
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Duane Nickull <du...@uberity.com> wrote:
> On 12-02-27 5:18 PM, "David Francis Buhler" <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >My hunch is that their authentication mechanism does not require bots to
> >be
> >authenticated. That might be why you can view the entire page without
> >being
> >authenticated if you request the cached version.
> >
> >[1]
> >
> http://www.experts-exchange.com/Web_Development/Web_Languages-Standards/Fl
> >ex/Q_27377143.html
> >
> >[2]
> >
> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:h2aRJSoLe1sJ:www.expe
> >
> rts-exchange.com/Web_Development/Web_Languages-Standards/Flex/Q_27377143.h
> >tml+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
>
>
> No. This is wrong. If you want Google to index authenticated pages, you
> must configure the Google Search Appliance or Google mini. Also - what
> you suggest below is not allowed. You would be showing googlebot something
> different from what others can see, this is against the guidelines.
>
> Google published full instructions here. Again, there is nothing in the
> Flex SDK or from a Flex developers perspective I can think of that would
> have to be done.
>
> Duane
>
> ________________________________________
>
> Überity.com
> President & COO
> Adobe LiveCycle ES Consultant Services
> http://www.uberity.com
> Blog | http://technoracle.blogspot.com
> Twitter | @Uberity @duanechaos
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/27/12 3:22 PM, "Duane Nickull" <du...@uberity.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> > DN: I have never seen any evidence of google using content it can
> >>access.
> >> > Same for Bing and Yahoo. Flex can basically give it 500 words but for
> >> > starters Google only takes 200 per site in most cases. They can all
> >>get
> >> > text today, but the reality is they don't appear to use it. I am not
> >> sure
> >> > how you think an SDK will force them to use it.
> >> I'm not saying the SDK will try to force anybody to use anything. I
> >>just
> >> thought there were issues where folks want to have more control over
> >>what
> >> text is found in a SWF, what links are found in the SWF and what buttons
> >> get
> >> pushed. I don't remember how Ichabod knew to push the buttons in
> >> FlexStore.
> >> >
> >> > As for Authentication, most pages that require authentication are
> >> probably
> >> > not mean to be indexed as the human finding the link to it would face
> >>the
> >> > same challenge. What would be the point?
> >> I think it is expertsexchange.com that seems to be well indexed but you
> >> have
> >> to authenticate first. I don't know how they do that.
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Alex Harui
> >> Flex SDK Team
> >> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> >> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Duane Nickull <du...@uberity.com>.
On 12-02-27 5:18 PM, "David Francis Buhler" <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>My hunch is that their authentication mechanism does not require bots to
>be
>authenticated. That might be why you can view the entire page without
>being
>authenticated if you request the cached version.
>
>[1]
>http://www.experts-exchange.com/Web_Development/Web_Languages-Standards/Fl
>ex/Q_27377143.html
>
>[2]
>http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:h2aRJSoLe1sJ:www.expe
>rts-exchange.com/Web_Development/Web_Languages-Standards/Flex/Q_27377143.h
>tml+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
No. This is wrong. If you want Google to index authenticated pages, you
must configure the Google Search Appliance or Google mini. Also - what
you suggest below is not allowed. You would be showing googlebot something
different from what others can see, this is against the guidelines.
Google published full instructions here. Again, there is nothing in the
Flex SDK or from a Flex developers perspective I can think of that would
have to be done.
Duane
________________________________________
Überity.com
President & COO
Adobe LiveCycle ES Consultant Services
http://www.uberity.com
Blog | http://technoracle.blogspot.com
Twitter | @Uberity @duanechaos
>
>
>On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/27/12 3:22 PM, "Duane Nickull" <du...@uberity.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > DN: I have never seen any evidence of google using content it can
>>access.
>> > Same for Bing and Yahoo. Flex can basically give it 500 words but for
>> > starters Google only takes 200 per site in most cases. They can all
>>get
>> > text today, but the reality is they don't appear to use it. I am not
>> sure
>> > how you think an SDK will force them to use it.
>> I'm not saying the SDK will try to force anybody to use anything. I
>>just
>> thought there were issues where folks want to have more control over
>>what
>> text is found in a SWF, what links are found in the SWF and what buttons
>> get
>> pushed. I don't remember how Ichabod knew to push the buttons in
>> FlexStore.
>> >
>> > As for Authentication, most pages that require authentication are
>> probably
>> > not mean to be indexed as the human finding the link to it would face
>>the
>> > same challenge. What would be the point?
>> I think it is expertsexchange.com that seems to be well indexed but you
>> have
>> to authenticate first. I don't know how they do that.
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Alex Harui
>> Flex SDK Team
>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>
>>
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by David Francis Buhler <da...@gmail.com>.
My hunch is that their authentication mechanism does not require bots to be
authenticated. That might be why you can view the entire page without being
authenticated if you request the cached version.
[1]
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Web_Development/Web_Languages-Standards/Flex/Q_27377143.html
[2]
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:h2aRJSoLe1sJ:www.experts-exchange.com/Web_Development/Web_Languages-Standards/Flex/Q_27377143.html+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 2/27/12 3:22 PM, "Duane Nickull" <du...@uberity.com> wrote:
>
>
> > DN: I have never seen any evidence of google using content it can access.
> > Same for Bing and Yahoo. Flex can basically give it 500 words but for
> > starters Google only takes 200 per site in most cases. They can all get
> > text today, but the reality is they don't appear to use it. I am not
> sure
> > how you think an SDK will force them to use it.
> I'm not saying the SDK will try to force anybody to use anything. I just
> thought there were issues where folks want to have more control over what
> text is found in a SWF, what links are found in the SWF and what buttons
> get
> pushed. I don't remember how Ichabod knew to push the buttons in
> FlexStore.
> >
> > As for Authentication, most pages that require authentication are
> probably
> > not mean to be indexed as the human finding the link to it would face the
> > same challenge. What would be the point?
> I think it is expertsexchange.com that seems to be well indexed but you
> have
> to authenticate first. I don't know how they do that.
> >
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
>
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Duane Nickull <du...@uberity.com>.
On 12-02-27 3:51 PM, "Alex Harui" <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>I'm not saying the SDK will try to force anybody to use anything. I just
>thought there were issues where folks want to have more control over what
>text is found in a SWF, what links are found in the SWF and what buttons
>get
>pushed. I don't remember how Ichabod knew to push the buttons in
>FlexStore.
Ichabod was engineered to seek out alternate states and for other objects
in memory that were intractable with. It was basically a headless flash
player that acted like a human, pushing every button, tab, etc. It then
stripped out anything that was textual. A tab would then instantiate
itself and the data (text) would be available.
The problem with it was that despite a fairly good size engineering
effort, the search vendors basically didn't want it. If you really want
to validate this, perhaps ask the search vendors themselves and ask them
what they would use. Opinions of what they *might* want are pointless if
they don't use it.
Duane
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 2/27/12 3:22 PM, "Duane Nickull" <du...@uberity.com> wrote:
> DN: I have never seen any evidence of google using content it can access.
> Same for Bing and Yahoo. Flex can basically give it 500 words but for
> starters Google only takes 200 per site in most cases. They can all get
> text today, but the reality is they don't appear to use it. I am not sure
> how you think an SDK will force them to use it.
I'm not saying the SDK will try to force anybody to use anything. I just
thought there were issues where folks want to have more control over what
text is found in a SWF, what links are found in the SWF and what buttons get
pushed. I don't remember how Ichabod knew to push the buttons in FlexStore.
>
> As for Authentication, most pages that require authentication are probably
> not mean to be indexed as the human finding the link to it would face the
> same challenge. What would be the point?
I think it is expertsexchange.com that seems to be well indexed but you have
to authenticate first. I don't know how they do that.
>
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Duane Nickull <du...@uberity.com>.
>
>I watched both videos. I'm not sure why you think there isn't stuff that
>Flex can do better to assist in the better static indexing of content, and
>making the set links available to the search engines. I thought there
>were
>things that Ichabod needed help with (like getting past authentication,
>finding its way through custom navigation because it sometimes misses
>buttons, ignoring some buttons).
DN: I have never seen any evidence of google using content it can access.
Same for Bing and Yahoo. Flex can basically give it 500 words but for
starters Google only takes 200 per site in most cases. They can all get
text today, but the reality is they don't appear to use it. I am not sure
how you think an SDK will force them to use it.
As for Authentication, most pages that require authentication are probably
not mean to be indexed as the human finding the link to it would face the
same challenge. What would be the point?
Since search engines can already get the text, what more would you think
they want? To be frank here, most text is ignored anyways, regardless of
it being in HTML or SWF.
I'll ask Adobe if I can make some of the tests we ran public to help clear
things up.
duane
>
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 2/27/12 11:20 AM, "Duane Nickull" <du...@uberity.com> wrote:
> I honestly think that after watching these, you will all agree there is
> nothing that belongs on an SDK discussion list WRT SEO. It is simply not
> needed.
I watched both videos. I'm not sure why you think there isn't stuff that
Flex can do better to assist in the better static indexing of content, and
making the set links available to the search engines. I thought there were
things that Ichabod needed help with (like getting past authentication,
finding its way through custom navigation because it sometimes misses
buttons, ignoring some buttons).
Also, please follow mailing list protocol and quote and comment instead of
top-posting.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Duane Nickull <du...@uberity.com>.
It used to. To understand how the system works, watch this video:
http://technoracle.blogspot.com/2009/01/flash-search-engine-optimization.ht
ml
And this video:
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-evangelists-duane-nickull/seo-secrets-techn
ology-and-magic-behind-flash/
The second one is more important and it start around the 6 minute mark
(not sure why Adobe never trimmed it).
I honestly think that after watching these, you will all agree there is
nothing that belongs on an SDK discussion list WRT SEO. It is simply not
needed.
Duane
________________________________________
Überity.com
President & COO
Adobe LiveCycle ES Consultant Services
http://www.uberity.com
Blog | http://technoracle.blogspot.com
Twitter | @Uberity @duanechaos
On 12-02-27 10:57 AM, "Omar Gonzalez" <om...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Left Right <ol...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> ... and white
>> text on white background with postion: absolute top -1000px has a better
>> chance to affect the crawler than that thing does...
>>
>
>That also has a high chance of getting you blacklisted off of search
>engines. I wouldn't recommend anyone to do this.
>
>--
>Omar Gonzalez
>s9tpepper@apache.org
>Apache Flex PPMC Member
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 2/27/12 10:57 AM, "Omar Gonzalez" <om...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Left Right <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ... and white
>> text on white background with postion: absolute top -1000px has a better
>> chance to affect the crawler than that thing does...
>>
>
> That also has a high chance of getting you blacklisted off of search
> engines. I wouldn't recommend anyone to do this.
>
And, Oleg, while I agree that SWF metadata and HTML metadata and the current
SWF sniffer haven't been useful, I don't see any reason why folks can't make
another attempt at it. Richer JS apps that don't keep fetching new HTML
pages have similar problems and I believe energy is being spent to solve it
there as well.
There was some discussion in Adobe about defining patterns to make it easier
to tie states to deep-linking. A SWF sniffer could detect the existence of
that pattern to make them appear as links to a search engine.
Or, even something more brute force is possible where the compiler or some
tool has a mode where it will generate a site-map for you based on clues you
leave in your MXML.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Left Right <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ... and white
> text on white background with postion: absolute top -1000px has a better
> chance to affect the crawler than that thing does...
>
That also has a high chance of getting you blacklisted off of search
engines. I wouldn't recommend anyone to do this.
--
Omar Gonzalez
s9tpepper@apache.org
Apache Flex PPMC Member
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Duane Nickull <du...@uberity.com>.
No. Google does not use metadata keywords.
http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/09/google-does-not-use-keyw
ords-meta-tag.html
You are basing your SEO discussion on a bunch of false assumptions. To be
honest, I don't think this is even a conversation worth having unless you
want to talk about using data providers (which Google does use).
If you want to have this conversation, first do the research to understand
how dynamic SE ranking works. The beliefs below have been outdated since
2002.
Duane
________________________________________
Überity.com
President & COO
Adobe LiveCycle ES Consultant Services
http://www.uberity.com
Blog | http://technoracle.blogspot.com
Twitter | @Uberity @duanechaos
On 12-02-27 10:49 AM, "Left Right" <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>That sounds pretty much like what was the name of the meta tags once used
>in the HTML <head> to describe the page? I think this was so often
>misused,
>that the search engines particularly ignore that part of the HTML and
>white
>text on white background with postion: absolute top -1000px has a better
>chance to affect the crawler than that thing does...
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Left Right <ol...@gmail.com>.
That sounds pretty much like what was the name of the meta tags once used
in the HTML <head> to describe the page? I think this was so often misused,
that the search engines particularly ignore that part of the HTML and white
text on white background with postion: absolute top -1000px has a better
chance to affect the crawler than that thing does...
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Ariel Jakobovits <ar...@yahoo.com>.
I think the aim would be to let the developer specify the search data in a properties file that gets compiled into the swf in a specified location with a specified format to avoid having to automatically convert the UI into meaningful search information.
Ariel Jakobovits
Email: arieljake@yahoo.com
Phone: 650-690-2213
Fax: 650-641-0031
Cell: 650-823-8699
________________________________
From: Left Right <ol...@gmail.com>
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
> find ways to make it easy to sniff a SWF for searchable text
That would be easier if the rendering of SWF was be an entirely separate
program. Then, companies, who are interested in searching the output, would
be able to "see" what has been actually shown to the user. But there's a
huge difference between what users are able to see and what they actually
saw. I.e. almost every portfolio kind of site has an "about us" page, where
people put the biography of their CEO and some other random stuff nobody
cares about (well, maybe the CEO does...). An automatic crawler wouldn't be
able to replicate human behavior if they follow the tab index... besides,
Flash, especially Flex application have a tendency to completely mess up
the tab indexing, so that parts of application become completely
inaccessible through it. Then there are things like scrolling... But when
you think of all input modes available on touch screen devices... so,
again, probably, the crawler would have to know what are the built-in input
events that have registered handlers and then try to pipe these events to
see what happens in response... Imitating drag events? sounds like mission
impossible, if the scenario is to drag something to a particular spot in
order to initiate some interaction. Either Google comes up with a
Skynet-like crawler, or that isn't going to happen :)
It sounds like it's really cheaper to hire labor force in the third world
countries and ask them to write a report on what they saw on the site, then
to write an intelligent crawler :D
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Left Right <ol...@gmail.com>.
> find ways to make it easy to sniff a SWF for searchable text
That would be easier if the rendering of SWF was be an entirely separate
program. Then, companies, who are interested in searching the output, would
be able to "see" what has been actually shown to the user. But there's a
huge difference between what users are able to see and what they actually
saw. I.e. almost every portfolio kind of site has an "about us" page, where
people put the biography of their CEO and some other random stuff nobody
cares about (well, maybe the CEO does...). An automatic crawler wouldn't be
able to replicate human behavior if they follow the tab index... besides,
Flash, especially Flex application have a tendency to completely mess up
the tab indexing, so that parts of application become completely
inaccessible through it. Then there are things like scrolling... But when
you think of all input modes available on touch screen devices... so,
again, probably, the crawler would have to know what are the built-in input
events that have registered handlers and then try to pipe these events to
see what happens in response... Imitating drag events? sounds like mission
impossible, if the scenario is to drag something to a particular spot in
order to initiate some interaction. Either Google comes up with a
Skynet-like crawler, or that isn't going to happen :)
It sounds like it's really cheaper to hire labor force in the third world
countries and ask them to write a report on what they saw on the site, then
to write an intelligent crawler :D
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 2/26/12 11:44 AM, "Duane Nickull" <du...@uberity.com> wrote:
> Search engines have the technology to do this but do not use it. I ran
> some tests over an 18 month period. This video shows the original
> FLashRunner
>
I would think they gave up because it didn't work well for Flex apps. I
think it could be within the realm of this project to:
1) find ways to make it easy to sniff a SWF for searchable text
2) provide a tool to search engine companies to sniff the SWF.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Duane Nickull <du...@uberity.com>.
Search engines have the technology to do this but do not use it. I ran
some tests over an 18 month period. This video shows the original
FLashRunner
http://technoracle.blogspot.com/2009/01/flash-search-engine-optimization.ht
ml
This video explains in more details the results of the tests:
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/max-2009-envision/seo-secrets-technology-and-magi
c-behind-flash/
The basic premise is that Search engines basically only use content for
initial ranking. Everything else is dynamic. The above video explains
the mechanisms in more detail.
Duane Nickull
________________________________________
Überity.com
President & COO
Adobe LiveCycle ES Consultant Services
http://www.uberity.com
Blog | http://technoracle.blogspot.com
Twitter | @Uberity @duanechaos
On 12-02-25 11:54 PM, "Ariel Jakobovits" <ar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> what the search engine project was doing
>
>Was that project trying to expose more information about the content in
>swfs to search engines for inclusion in search results?
>
>Bouncing off of that, could we program a standard into our new flex
>compiler's swfs where search engines can expect to find information to
>help in indexing. For example, would knowing that a "3x5card" of useful
>information pertaining to SEO was located at byte 350 encourage search
>engines to reach there?
>
>
>Ariel Jakobovits
>ajakobov@adobe.com
>650-350-0282
>
>On Feb 25, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>
>wrote:
>
>> what the search engine project was doing
SEO for SWF Was: Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Ariel Jakobovits <ar...@yahoo.com>.
> what the search engine project was doing
Was that project trying to expose more information about the content in swfs to search engines for inclusion in search results?
Bouncing off of that, could we program a standard into our new flex compiler's swfs where search engines can expect to find information to help in indexing. For example, would knowing that a "3x5card" of useful information pertaining to SEO was located at byte 350 encourage search engines to reach there?
Ariel Jakobovits
ajakobov@adobe.com
650-350-0282
On Feb 25, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as> wrote:
> what the search engine project was doing
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Left Right <ol...@gmail.com>.
Presentation interface of Flash and Flex interest precisely the prospects,
it's not interesting for a wide range of developers, who write code that
leverages client-server communication, data processing, physics, AI and
many many more. I, for once, being an AS3 programmer at my last job had to
deal purely with only the code that manages some video-peer-to-peer-chat
kind of thing, and the visual side of project never was in my real of
responsibility. However, the must-have visual side of thing (which in my
case was an ideal white screen 600x800 pixels) hindered the process a lot -
Flash player is creepily slow and unproductive when communicating outside.
On tests, you would often want to run 100 copies of the program, but maybe
even more... running so many flash players would be very unhealthy for the
system :)
And, yeah, like Omar Gonzalez says - testing. You may think about testing
as unimportant, but the larger the project is, the higher % of time it
spends in testing. In fact, a project with the development cycle of about a
year may spend 1-2 months in actual development, and the rest is testing.
Not being able to automatically register or send clicks to player is
maddening.
If, as I mentioned it before, the player could have been combined of two
parts, one being the runtime for the code, that expect callbacks from
another part for doing the rendering and piping in the input events - that
would be priceless, as someone (well, someone like me even!) could've
written a mock for the interaction API to send automatically generated
signals back and forth.
This is also where HTML wins on almost all positions - you can automate the
testing, the continuous integration, and make it all run automatically,
saving a lot of work hours for QA personnel...
Best.
Oleg
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Abdul Sattar <sa...@gmail.com>.
This was the historic statement made by Adobe to increase distribution.
To support the variety of Linux-based platforms across PCs and devices, we
> are prioritizing a Linux porting kit for AIR (including source code), which Open
> Screen Project <http://www.openscreenproject.org/partners/apply.html>(OSP) partners can use to complete implementations of AIR for Linux-based
> platforms on PCs, mobile devices, TVs and TV-connected devices. We will no
> longer be releasing our own versions of Adobe AIR and the AIR SDK for
> desktop Linux, but expect that one or more of our partners will do so.
>
>
Not heard of any progress in this regard ever since. Does any body have any
information.
Regards,
--
Abdul Sattar
(Director IT & Operations)
0321-6433805
www.powersoft.com.pk
RE: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by "Michael A. Labriola" <la...@digitalprimates.net>.
>I totally buy that requirement. And I think Mike Labriola at one time got some sort of commitment from Adobe for this particular use. I know it was before the big 'change' but maybe he can comment on that.
There was rumor of allowing some use of AIR for Linux as part of the development kit but not actually having a production version... honestly, not much ever came of it. For flexunit we just run in a virtual frame buffer so we can be sort of headless. I had a prototype running on tamarin, which is great for business logic, but most people eventually try to test things that inherit from the UI layer of flash... so it becomes useless
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
I totally buy that requirement. And I think Mike Labriola at one time got
some sort of commitment from Adobe for this particular use. I know it was
before the big 'change' but maybe he can comment on that.
-Nick
On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Nicholas Kwiatkowski <nicholas@spoon.as
> >wrote:
>
> > I still don't know if I'm following what you really want.. I totally
> see
> > the want/need for AIR for Linux. A compiler for Linux I see as even a
> > higher priority. But from what I'm putting together, you want a
> > console-based flash player?
> >
>
> I might be wrong here, but I think the use case is running FlexUnit tests
> in a headless Flash Player environment for a Linux CI type server setup for
> automated testing. Just a wild guess.
>
> --
> Omar Gonzalez
> s9tpepper@apache.org
> Apache Flex PPMC Member
>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>wrote:
> I still don't know if I'm following what you really want.. I totally see
> the want/need for AIR for Linux. A compiler for Linux I see as even a
> higher priority. But from what I'm putting together, you want a
> console-based flash player?
>
I might be wrong here, but I think the use case is running FlexUnit tests
in a headless Flash Player environment for a Linux CI type server setup for
automated testing. Just a wild guess.
--
Omar Gonzalez
s9tpepper@apache.org
Apache Flex PPMC Member
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
I still don't know if I'm following what you really want.. I totally see
the want/need for AIR for Linux. A compiler for Linux I see as even a
higher priority. But from what I'm putting together, you want a
console-based flash player?
I can't picture how that fits in with Flex. Flash (and Flex) is really a
presentation interface, and would be really silly without some sort of
graphical output (with the notable exception for mining the swf for data,
like what the search engine project was doing). Now, if what you are
requesting is a command-line actionscript interface -- I see more use in
that. In fact, didn't there used to be a quirky as2 console interface
apart of FCS?
-Nick
On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Left Right <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Are you really proposing a headless, or console-mode Flash Player for
> linux users?
>
> 1) It possibly exists (well, I'm 99% sure because Macromedia once released
> SEO SDK for processing SWFs, so, I'm guessing that's the starting point,
> besides, I could infer this indirectly through some testing results that
> leaked from Adobe bug base - things that suggested that the player was
> launched automatically and some other program gathered the statistics about
> it's performance).
> 2) If I'm mistaking, and it doesn't exist, making one would be priceless!
> :)
> 3) There is ECMAScript implementation of POSIX, I'm not sure of it's
> quality, but incorporating that into player would be an extra bonus.
> * I'm not saying users, because it may mean users who browse the internet.
> What I mean by "users" is people who are using Linux as a platform for
> development.
>
> If such thing would be built in mind with that there is another program /
> module that provider rendering - that would be uber cool. But that's too
> much Unix-way for a corporative thinking to handle at one time :)
>
> X is known to be a particular painful place, *hopefully* it is going to
> change, because everyone is aware of it, but the substitutes aren't good
> enough yet. But I'm still thinking that this is a difference in approach.
> I'll try to explain using an example:
>
> Couple days ago I needed, for the class, to do some simple stuff using some
> SQL database. So, I said to myself, why wouldn't I use clsql library
> (Common Lisp library for various flavors of SQL) and MySQL. Done. Not so
> fast... it appeared that there are no binaries, and I have to build the
> bindings for MySQL on my own. The library provides some guidelines an make
> files to build the bindings, but I need to put some extra work to adjust it
> to my system. Took me few hours to understand what was I missing, and where
> the header files should go, but in the end it compiled and all is good.
> Do I feel afterwards like whoever wrote clsql did a poor job? - not at all,
> how could they know that the header files for mysql library weren't in the
> place they are usually found on Debian-like distros? Well, they couldn't,
> and so I'm not complaining about the code not working "out of the box".
> Same thing here - if you can get it to the point it works within certain
> conditions - perfect, as long as you can explain the requirements. You
> didn't have the time and ability to test on all permutations of the set of
> Unix utilities - that's a wasted effort, you will never be able to. Just
> leave the door open for whoever is willing to adjust it for their purposes.
>
> Best.
>
> wvxvw
>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 26/02/2012 02:26, Left Right wrote:
>> Are you really proposing a headless, or console-mode Flash Player for
> linux users?
>
> 1) It possibly exists (well, I'm 99% sure because Macromedia once released
> SEO SDK for processing SWFs, so, I'm guessing that's the starting point,
> besides, I could infer this indirectly through some testing results that
> leaked from Adobe bug base - things that suggested that the player was
> launched automatically and some other program gathered the statistics about
> it's performance).
> 2) If I'm mistaking, and it doesn't exist, making one would be priceless! :)
> 3) There is ECMAScript implementation of POSIX, I'm not sure of it's
> quality, but incorporating that into player would be an extra bonus.
> * I'm not saying users, because it may mean users who browse the internet.
> What I mean by "users" is people who are using Linux as a platform for
> development.
Redtamarin [1] is a extension for tamarin - headless AS3 if you want.
yours
Martin.
[1] http://code.google.com/p/redtamarin/
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 2/25/2012 12:26 PM, Left Right wrote:
> > Are you really proposing a headless, or console-mode Flash Player
> for linux users?
>
> 1) It possibly exists (well, I'm 99% sure because Macromedia once
> released SEO SDK for processing SWFs, so, I'm guessing that's the
> starting point, besides, I could infer this indirectly through some
> testing results that leaked from Adobe bug base - things that
> suggested that the player was launched automatically and some other
> program gathered the statistics about it's performance).
It was named Ichabod! ( Presumably for Ichabod Crane, The Headless
Horsemen). Although as far as I knew it was never available publicly;
only to search engine partners.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 2/25/12 9:26 AM, "olegsivokon@gmail.com" <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Are you really proposing a headless, or console-mode Flash Player for
> linux users?
>
> 1) It possibly exists (well, I'm 99% sure because Macromedia once released
> SEO SDK for processing SWFs, so, I'm guessing that's the starting point,
> besides, I could infer this indirectly through some testing results that
> leaked from Adobe bug base - things that suggested that the player was
> launched automatically and some other program gathered the statistics about
> it's performance).
> 2) If I'm mistaking, and it doesn't exist, making one would be priceless! :)
AIR can be run as a headless FlashPlayer, IIRC. Or is it missing some
capability?
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Left Right <ol...@gmail.com>.
> Are you really proposing a headless, or console-mode Flash Player for
linux users?
1) It possibly exists (well, I'm 99% sure because Macromedia once released
SEO SDK for processing SWFs, so, I'm guessing that's the starting point,
besides, I could infer this indirectly through some testing results that
leaked from Adobe bug base - things that suggested that the player was
launched automatically and some other program gathered the statistics about
it's performance).
2) If I'm mistaking, and it doesn't exist, making one would be priceless! :)
3) There is ECMAScript implementation of POSIX, I'm not sure of it's
quality, but incorporating that into player would be an extra bonus.
* I'm not saying users, because it may mean users who browse the internet.
What I mean by "users" is people who are using Linux as a platform for
development.
If such thing would be built in mind with that there is another program /
module that provider rendering - that would be uber cool. But that's too
much Unix-way for a corporative thinking to handle at one time :)
X is known to be a particular painful place, *hopefully* it is going to
change, because everyone is aware of it, but the substitutes aren't good
enough yet. But I'm still thinking that this is a difference in approach.
I'll try to explain using an example:
Couple days ago I needed, for the class, to do some simple stuff using some
SQL database. So, I said to myself, why wouldn't I use clsql library
(Common Lisp library for various flavors of SQL) and MySQL. Done. Not so
fast... it appeared that there are no binaries, and I have to build the
bindings for MySQL on my own. The library provides some guidelines an make
files to build the bindings, but I need to put some extra work to adjust it
to my system. Took me few hours to understand what was I missing, and where
the header files should go, but in the end it compiled and all is good.
Do I feel afterwards like whoever wrote clsql did a poor job? - not at all,
how could they know that the header files for mysql library weren't in the
place they are usually found on Debian-like distros? Well, they couldn't,
and so I'm not complaining about the code not working "out of the box".
Same thing here - if you can get it to the point it works within certain
conditions - perfect, as long as you can explain the requirements. You
didn't have the time and ability to test on all permutations of the set of
Unix utilities - that's a wasted effort, you will never be able to. Just
leave the door open for whoever is willing to adjust it for their purposes.
Best.
wvxvw
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 2/25/2012 10:41 AM, Left Right wrote:
> Just because I'm being a prick, OSS != free. More yet, OSS does not imply
> free and free does not imply OSS.
Technically you're right. In the real world, most people--even
programmers equate Open Source with "Free and I can do whatever I want
with it."
Technically you could say Flextras components are open source software
since the source is available. But, people would complain when they
found out it wasn't free. I think I was in the business for about 1
hour before I started using the phrasing "the source is available [for
purchase]" in response to the question "Is it open source?"
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
In my case of Linux development -- these were for my own OSS project, not
my employers. I've always had a command-line interface for my apps (these
are the ones I develop first), but because of the complexity of the
configurations, it was suggested I made an X-based GUI configuration tool.
That was merely my assessment -- development of the GUI tools took MUCH
longer than anything else, and they kept breaking by the changing and
evolving standards in the Linux world. And even when you set on a certain
framework, popular demands change so quickly that you have to re-write your
GUI tooling constantly. Win32's are a pain, but they are very well
documented, and they have been consistent for at least the last 15 years
(although, I'm waiting to see what happens with WIn8).
Regarding the OSS != free, it is true in only one direction. If I
open-source my software, it inherently become free. The model of charging
for the app and getting the source really only works in a small, niche
market. If I'm dealing with consumers (or linux developers in my case), if
the source is out there once, the source is out there forever, and it is
'free' to anybody who has a compiler. That is, unless I hold back certain
modules or features (and sell those as blobs, in which case, it isn't
really Open-source...). The really only successful model is to sell
support contracts, which as a one-man shop becomes very hard to do. Free
not giving an insinuation of open-source is a perfectly valid statement,
although in my experience in the Linux world, you get lambasted for trying
to give software out for free without the source.
Are you really proposing a headless, or console-mode Flash Player for linux
users?
-Nick
On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 10:41 AM, Left Right <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nick, it sounds like you've been doing corporative development for far too
> long... it is painful, indeed, to hear the horrible stories of Apple
> corporation in a battle of interests against Microsoft corporation and
> Adobe getting in between the fires... but again, what you say about Linux
> is said from a position of corporative logic, which does not apply in that
> domain.
> You wanted to develop flash runtime that has nice GUI, but no command line
> interface for Linux - what for? having the exact opposite would be great
> though. I would be indefinitely happy if I could run ActionScript w/o any
> requirement of X-server! In fact, having to do the opposite is pain! It is
> a complete misunderstanding of the audience. Why can't Flash runtime be
> built for Linux same, as, for example, V8? Designers don't work on Linux
> anyway, what does work there is the compilation servers, programmers and
> robots :P
> Same thing for code editors - really, very few Linux users even like reach
> GUI stuff, you cannot "buy" votes in that audience by providing nice
> graphics, because very few people care about that, but not being able to
> incorporate Flash player in a testing process sucks.
> After all, I'm sorry to say that, but even Gnome (which, in folklore is
> called a toy desktop manager) has fewer bugs then whatever Window 7 is
> using, so I'm not buying into the "difficult to build" agenda - it's
> difficult, because little effort has been made. WinAPI isn't a walk in the
> park either.
>
> Just because I'm being a prick, OSS != free. More yet, OSS does not imply
> free and free does not imply OSS. There is no contradiction in paying for a
> program, that comes with sources, likewise, there's no contradiction in
> giving a program for free, while not showing the sources. Not showing the
> sources, in my opinion, is rude, but since a lot of companies do that (just
> the same as a lot of people are rude), it's not possible to fight them all
> :)
>
> PS. In any case, regardless of what we write here, it's all sort of flame,
> and people who make these decisions probably aren't really interested in
> even hearing points of view...
>
> Best.
>
> Oleg
>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Left Right <ol...@gmail.com>.
Nick, it sounds like you've been doing corporative development for far too
long... it is painful, indeed, to hear the horrible stories of Apple
corporation in a battle of interests against Microsoft corporation and
Adobe getting in between the fires... but again, what you say about Linux
is said from a position of corporative logic, which does not apply in that
domain.
You wanted to develop flash runtime that has nice GUI, but no command line
interface for Linux - what for? having the exact opposite would be great
though. I would be indefinitely happy if I could run ActionScript w/o any
requirement of X-server! In fact, having to do the opposite is pain! It is
a complete misunderstanding of the audience. Why can't Flash runtime be
built for Linux same, as, for example, V8? Designers don't work on Linux
anyway, what does work there is the compilation servers, programmers and
robots :P
Same thing for code editors - really, very few Linux users even like reach
GUI stuff, you cannot "buy" votes in that audience by providing nice
graphics, because very few people care about that, but not being able to
incorporate Flash player in a testing process sucks.
After all, I'm sorry to say that, but even Gnome (which, in folklore is
called a toy desktop manager) has fewer bugs then whatever Window 7 is
using, so I'm not buying into the "difficult to build" agenda - it's
difficult, because little effort has been made. WinAPI isn't a walk in the
park either.
Just because I'm being a prick, OSS != free. More yet, OSS does not imply
free and free does not imply OSS. There is no contradiction in paying for a
program, that comes with sources, likewise, there's no contradiction in
giving a program for free, while not showing the sources. Not showing the
sources, in my opinion, is rude, but since a lot of companies do that (just
the same as a lot of people are rude), it's not possible to fight them all
:)
PS. In any case, regardless of what we write here, it's all sort of flame,
and people who make these decisions probably aren't really interested in
even hearing points of view...
Best.
Oleg
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
And to add little bit to the story -- Apple has also forced it's partners
(not just Adobe) to go through 3 MAJOR framework/architecture changes since
they released OSX only over 10 years ago. First there was Aqua, then
Carbon, then Cocoa. And it's not like Microsoft which doesn't really force
you to use their frameworks (like .NET); Apple actually depreciates support
for their older frameworks as time marches forward. Try running a legacy
app written for Mac OSX 10.1 on Snow Leopard or Lion, or Mountain Lion.
If you've ever tried developing for Apple, the change from Carbon to Cocoa
was a HUGE change. Thousands of APIs changed, and they completely
re-worked how you accessed certain bits of hardware. While under the hood
Apple was doing this to support new processor architectures, they paid no
attention to legacy software. Apple was constantly berating Adobe for not
upgrading all of their apps fast enough to Cocoa, when Adobe was able to do
it in a single release (this is why many of the CS4 apps didn't get many
new features -- they had to basically rewrite the UI for them for the Mac).
The funny story is that some of Apple's own popular programs (like FCP and
iTunes) didn't get upgraded to Cocoa until much, much later than Adobe's
products (both FCP and iTunes got updated in the middle of last year, with
FCP having to drop a ton of features to be able to ship in time).
Additionally, Apple has been locking down more and of the raw APIs that
developers need to make great programs. APIs that allow developers (and
partners like Adobe) to access the GPU to speed up video playback for
example, are exclusive to Apple. There was a huge breakthrough about a
year ago when Apple opened up a single API that allowed Adobe to improve
the Flash Player to do hardware accelerated video -- which dropped the CPU
utilization from like 80% to 15% for HD video. It is unknown if that API
will still be available in ML. So, to say the ignored development for the
Flash Player is not exactlly correct -- Apple didn't really give them the
options to make the same kinds of updates that were available on the
Microsoft platform.
And as far as Linux goes -- I've said it before and I'll say it again on
this mailing list. Developing for Linux for anything other than
console-based apps is a real pain in the rear. Graphics drivers are a mess
(and generally unstable), the APIs are a moving target (nothing like apis
that whole-sale change each year). These would be obstacles that could be
gotten around if the market wasn't so small, and so adverse to paying for
software (or for that manner, having something as closed-source). Take a
look at the comments on the Flash Player packages -- people use them, but
hate to use them because they are closed source. Just as many comments
complain that Adobe should make Photoshop for Linux, but they also say that
it should be OSS (free). I personally have given up making GUIs for any
of my linux apps, in favor of light-weight HTML things that require the
browser. Updating your app all the time because TCL changed, or gnome is
no longer popular, or KDE "jumped the shark and changed everything" is not
fun. Just wasn't worth it for me.
Ok, enough early morning ranting ;)
-Nick
On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 8:11 AM, Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 12:53 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Apple made
> > many requests (complaints) for them to upgrade and provide a good
> > experience for their users which they ignored. Now, years later is it the
> > reason Apple's decisions on Flash?
> >
>
> Jude, while I don't agree with the decisions that Adobe is making with it's
> support of Linux I have to stop you and tell you that you are wrong and
> that you've been listening to Apple's FUD.
>
> The real story behind the "poor sweet Apple company that kindly asked for a
> intel supporting CS upgrade" is that the day before Adobe released the new
> version of CS - a date that they had been very open with for a long time
> with partners such as Apple, Apple announced the new version of their
> hardware. Obviously the decision to switch core architecture had been made
> long ago but the decision was never shared with Adobe beyond many of
> Adobe's requests to ensure that their software was prepared to work on
> Apple's hardware.
>
> Apple is notorious for not releasing information to partners until it goes
> out to the world, then all the partners have to play catchup.
>
> So rather than giving Adobe a heads up so that they could plan for the
> change well in advance, they sprung the trap the day before the release.
> This sort of announcement is meant to screw with a company because Apple is
> well aware of Adobe's release cycle and how long it would take to upgrade
> Adobe's applications to work with the new hardware.
>
> Now Apple has roughly a year to (very publicly) complain that Adobe isn't
> fast enough or accommodating and should "just upgrade their software". We
> as developers know this isn't an overnight job, especially for something as
> full as Creative Suite.
>
> No Jude, I'm sorry to say that you listened to the Apple narrative without
> all the facts. In this case Apple was able to have their cake and eat it
> to.
>
> As you know, as scheduled, in the next release cycle (and even earlier for
> some applications) Adobe worked to make their applications compatible for
> the new hardware. However the straw man that Apple set up was already done
> and Apple was able to make Adobe look bad.
>
> Apple only "repeatedly asked for Adobe to upgrade" after the damage was
> done rather than gave Adobe the heads up to plan and release on time.
>
> --
> Jonathan Campos
>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 12:53 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Apple made
> many requests (complaints) for them to upgrade and provide a good
> experience for their users which they ignored. Now, years later is it the
> reason Apple's decisions on Flash?
>
Jude, while I don't agree with the decisions that Adobe is making with it's
support of Linux I have to stop you and tell you that you are wrong and
that you've been listening to Apple's FUD.
The real story behind the "poor sweet Apple company that kindly asked for a
intel supporting CS upgrade" is that the day before Adobe released the new
version of CS - a date that they had been very open with for a long time
with partners such as Apple, Apple announced the new version of their
hardware. Obviously the decision to switch core architecture had been made
long ago but the decision was never shared with Adobe beyond many of
Adobe's requests to ensure that their software was prepared to work on
Apple's hardware.
Apple is notorious for not releasing information to partners until it goes
out to the world, then all the partners have to play catchup.
So rather than giving Adobe a heads up so that they could plan for the
change well in advance, they sprung the trap the day before the release.
This sort of announcement is meant to screw with a company because Apple is
well aware of Adobe's release cycle and how long it would take to upgrade
Adobe's applications to work with the new hardware.
Now Apple has roughly a year to (very publicly) complain that Adobe isn't
fast enough or accommodating and should "just upgrade their software". We
as developers know this isn't an overnight job, especially for something as
full as Creative Suite.
No Jude, I'm sorry to say that you listened to the Apple narrative without
all the facts. In this case Apple was able to have their cake and eat it to.
As you know, as scheduled, in the next release cycle (and even earlier for
some applications) Adobe worked to make their applications compatible for
the new hardware. However the straw man that Apple set up was already done
and Apple was able to make Adobe look bad.
Apple only "repeatedly asked for Adobe to upgrade" after the damage was
done rather than gave Adobe the heads up to plan and release on time.
--
Jonathan Campos
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
This is an interesting if familiar development.
<rant>
For many years Adobe ignored development of the Flash Player on the Mac
because it was not as big a market for them as Windows. They also were slow
to upgrade their other Adobe suite software for the same reason. Apple made
many requests (complaints) for them to upgrade and provide a good
experience for their users which they ignored. Now, years later is it the
reason Apple's decisions on Flash?
Now we see Adobe making the same decisions again but for Linux. Don't they
realize that Linux users are the most vocal on technology on the internet?
One Linux user makes more noise than 1000 other users! ;)
I think many of their products would be successful if they continued to
develop them and perfect them. In their own way it would show commitment,
stability and desire for quality.
</rant>
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Left Right <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As an avid Ubuntu user (obviously, desktop Linux), few clarifications on
> how Adobe runtimes worked, until recently, at least:
>
> - player plugin - There was a flash-player-nonfree in the Debian (and
> Ubuntu) PPAs, that one would normally install if using Firefox, Opera,
> Seamonkey or any similar browser on those distros. These are official
> version Adobe provided to those distros. Chrome used to recognize that
> plugin, but could also install one of it's own. In fact, I'm running a
> debug player in Chrome and release player in Firefox. Flash player,
> especially on 64 bit Linux has severe problems with stability (it got
> better lately, but better means it crashes once or twice a day instead of
> once or twice an hour). Besides stability, the rendering leaves a lot to
> wish for...
>
> - projector - very few people have used that, probably only developers like
> myself, who use Linux for day to day work. It's hard to believe it was ever
> used for other purposes. Maybe on embedded, kiosk-style machines, but I've
> not seen that either.
>
> - AIR - there has never been a 64-bit version of the runtime for Linux.
> Installing the 32-bit version of the runtime on a 64-bit distro was not
> particularly painful, but it required you to have two copies of libc and
> some other core utilities, that, normally, you wouldn't want to duplicate.
> Given that there was no AIR installer for Linux (you'd have to move files,
> create links, add records to the environmental variables - all on your
> own), I would imagine that this wasn't used much... I only saw 3 projects
> made in AIR that, actually, respected some Linux specifics / were used on
> Linux at all - all of them dead or semi-dead by now. (Minibuilder,
> Moonshine project).
>
> Flash player is extremely unfriendly to an average Linux user in that the
> only argument it takes on command line is -version (starting from version
> 10-something! it wasn't always like that) :) So even simple tasks like
> automatically positioning the projector are quite challenging...
>
> Adobe never provided development runtimes for Linux through a centralized
> repositories! This means, again, you could never install the debug player,
> like you would, for example, install a development version of httpd or PHP
> or Eclipse or whatever other project. You had to download an archive from
> Adobe site and figure out on your own where to extract that / what links
> you may need and so on. There were times when there was also an installer
> for debug player plugin bundled with that archive, but that never worked
> out of the box on popular distros, you could maybe use the install script
> as a reference to try to understand what the author was trying to
> accomplish. There was an enthusiastic person on Yahoo Flex mailing list who
> tried to provide a repository with the debugger, but the initiative didn't
> last long.
>
> As a side note, Flash player running in Wine (a WinAPI simulator) performs
> on par, or even better then "native" Linux player...
>
> In spite of the above facts, the support for Linux matters. Linux is the
> platform of choice for good programmers (hey, that's me! oh well...). If
> you used it for a while for development, you can't go back to Windows or
> Mac OS, or you would sneak in Cygwin, bring your favorite distro on a
> disc-on-key drive and work from it :) It's not because it's written by
> Torvalds and Stallman, it's because it's like a lego, and is highly
> customizable, which makes it much more comfortable then anything else. (So,
> this means that FreeBSD qualifies just the same - I don't mean in
> particular GNU/Linux, but any system built on the similar principle). So,
> while there's not much market share for Linux, it's absolutely worth the
> effort.
> Well, let me illustrate this differently. Recently, I decided I want to
> learn Haskell. I used stackoverflow.com site for a while to know what the
> dynamics of the site are. I'm usually only checking out the [flash] and
> [lisp] tags though. I've asked a question about Haskell's printf function -
> something probably newbish, and in an hour I've got about 10 replies and
> they were actually very in-depth, with examples and explanation etc. I
> often times come across explicitly wrong answers in the [flash] section, or
> very low-quality answers, that may actually hinder you more then help, or
> get you accustomed to an ill-suggested practice. Now, there's been an old
> joke about the 26'th mysterious Haskell programmer, an anonymous who'd post
> a complimenting comment whenever there was an article on Haskell released.
> Yet Haskell community was so small, they actually knew each other by name,
> and couldn't figure out who's posting those comments. And, with all that,
> they managed to write couple of good programs...
> Similarly, the Linux Flash community is very-very small, but if you stop
> providing support to them, you probably loose more then just few freaks :)
> Maybe it's hard to see this immediately, but innovations don't come from
> the corporative grounds. Corporations may be faithful supporters and source
> of income, but they are the exact opposite of innovation, because,
> obviously, they try to do less work, and iff innovation is imminent, they
> will update. So, reducing Linux support is like reducing the allocations to
> R&D. You may argue that there weren't good results so far - but read above,
> the support was very poor. Well, at least a self-respecting language would
> have provided an editing mode for Emacs! :D
>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Maciek Sakrejda <m....@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Jason Gardner
<ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I echo your sentiments, Left Right!
>
> Being able to develop Flex applications on Linux is extremely important to
> me, and I'm happy to assist to that end in any way that I can.
+1 (Well, not on Left Right's pointless put-down of non-Linux OSes,
but if I can't develop on Linux, that definitely dampens my
already-worn enthusiasm for this platform)
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Jason Gardner <ja...@gmail.com>.
I echo your sentiments, Left Right!
Being able to develop Flex applications on Linux is extremely important to
me, and I'm happy to assist to that end in any way that I can.
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Left Right <ol...@gmail.com>.
As an avid Ubuntu user (obviously, desktop Linux), few clarifications on
how Adobe runtimes worked, until recently, at least:
- player plugin - There was a flash-player-nonfree in the Debian (and
Ubuntu) PPAs, that one would normally install if using Firefox, Opera,
Seamonkey or any similar browser on those distros. These are official
version Adobe provided to those distros. Chrome used to recognize that
plugin, but could also install one of it's own. In fact, I'm running a
debug player in Chrome and release player in Firefox. Flash player,
especially on 64 bit Linux has severe problems with stability (it got
better lately, but better means it crashes once or twice a day instead of
once or twice an hour). Besides stability, the rendering leaves a lot to
wish for...
- projector - very few people have used that, probably only developers like
myself, who use Linux for day to day work. It's hard to believe it was ever
used for other purposes. Maybe on embedded, kiosk-style machines, but I've
not seen that either.
- AIR - there has never been a 64-bit version of the runtime for Linux.
Installing the 32-bit version of the runtime on a 64-bit distro was not
particularly painful, but it required you to have two copies of libc and
some other core utilities, that, normally, you wouldn't want to duplicate.
Given that there was no AIR installer for Linux (you'd have to move files,
create links, add records to the environmental variables - all on your
own), I would imagine that this wasn't used much... I only saw 3 projects
made in AIR that, actually, respected some Linux specifics / were used on
Linux at all - all of them dead or semi-dead by now. (Minibuilder,
Moonshine project).
Flash player is extremely unfriendly to an average Linux user in that the
only argument it takes on command line is -version (starting from version
10-something! it wasn't always like that) :) So even simple tasks like
automatically positioning the projector are quite challenging...
Adobe never provided development runtimes for Linux through a centralized
repositories! This means, again, you could never install the debug player,
like you would, for example, install a development version of httpd or PHP
or Eclipse or whatever other project. You had to download an archive from
Adobe site and figure out on your own where to extract that / what links
you may need and so on. There were times when there was also an installer
for debug player plugin bundled with that archive, but that never worked
out of the box on popular distros, you could maybe use the install script
as a reference to try to understand what the author was trying to
accomplish. There was an enthusiastic person on Yahoo Flex mailing list who
tried to provide a repository with the debugger, but the initiative didn't
last long.
As a side note, Flash player running in Wine (a WinAPI simulator) performs
on par, or even better then "native" Linux player...
In spite of the above facts, the support for Linux matters. Linux is the
platform of choice for good programmers (hey, that's me! oh well...). If
you used it for a while for development, you can't go back to Windows or
Mac OS, or you would sneak in Cygwin, bring your favorite distro on a
disc-on-key drive and work from it :) It's not because it's written by
Torvalds and Stallman, it's because it's like a lego, and is highly
customizable, which makes it much more comfortable then anything else. (So,
this means that FreeBSD qualifies just the same - I don't mean in
particular GNU/Linux, but any system built on the similar principle). So,
while there's not much market share for Linux, it's absolutely worth the
effort.
Well, let me illustrate this differently. Recently, I decided I want to
learn Haskell. I used stackoverflow.com site for a while to know what the
dynamics of the site are. I'm usually only checking out the [flash] and
[lisp] tags though. I've asked a question about Haskell's printf function -
something probably newbish, and in an hour I've got about 10 replies and
they were actually very in-depth, with examples and explanation etc. I
often times come across explicitly wrong answers in the [flash] section, or
very low-quality answers, that may actually hinder you more then help, or
get you accustomed to an ill-suggested practice. Now, there's been an old
joke about the 26'th mysterious Haskell programmer, an anonymous who'd post
a complimenting comment whenever there was an article on Haskell released.
Yet Haskell community was so small, they actually knew each other by name,
and couldn't figure out who's posting those comments. And, with all that,
they managed to write couple of good programs...
Similarly, the Linux Flash community is very-very small, but if you stop
providing support to them, you probably loose more then just few freaks :)
Maybe it's hard to see this immediately, but innovations don't come from
the corporative grounds. Corporations may be faithful supporters and source
of income, but they are the exact opposite of innovation, because,
obviously, they try to do less work, and iff innovation is imminent, they
will update. So, reducing Linux support is like reducing the allocations to
R&D. You may argue that there weren't good results so far - but read above,
the support was very poor. Well, at least a self-respecting language would
have provided an editing mode for Emacs! :D
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by James Ong <ya...@gmail.com>.
I'm quite curious on audio part, "Improved audio support for working with
low-latency audio" what support will it be available?
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>wrote:
> On 22/02/2012 18:27, Martin Heidegger wrote:
>
>> On 22/02/2012 18:20, David Arno wrote:
>>
>>> From: Dimitri k. [mailto:koro@noos.fr]
>>>> Sent: 22 February 2012 09:08
>>>>
>>>> No he was referring that future Flash Player linux version will be only
>>>>
>>> available in Google Chrome.
>>> I can't decide if that is right or not. As the Pepper API is described as
>>> "cross-platform API for plugins for web browsers," that implies that
>>> other
>>> browsers could implement it too. If it is cross-platform though, why is
>>> Adobe ditching direct support for Flash for Linux only?
>>>
>>> Sadly, it is another nail in the coffin of Flex as a Flash-based
>>> technology,
>>> no matter how one looks at it.
>>>
>>> David.
>>>
>>
>> I have been reading a little into it....
>>
>
> I found more information on the PPAPI[1]. It looks like Mozilla just
> stopped improving
> the NPAPI and focus on w3c technology (JavaScript). This development seems
> similar
> to steps Microsoft is taking in IE-Metro (by removing plugin altogether).
>
> yours
> Martin.
>
> [1] http://www.theregister.co.uk/**2010/06/25/mozilla_on_npapi_**pepper/<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/25/mozilla_on_npapi_pepper/>
>
>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 22/02/2012 18:27, Martin Heidegger wrote:
> On 22/02/2012 18:20, David Arno wrote:
>>> From: Dimitri k. [mailto:koro@noos.fr]
>>> Sent: 22 February 2012 09:08
>>>
>>> No he was referring that future Flash Player linux version will be only
>> available in Google Chrome.
>> I can't decide if that is right or not. As the Pepper API is
>> described as
>> "cross-platform API for plugins for web browsers," that implies that
>> other
>> browsers could implement it too. If it is cross-platform though, why is
>> Adobe ditching direct support for Flash for Linux only?
>>
>> Sadly, it is another nail in the coffin of Flex as a Flash-based
>> technology,
>> no matter how one looks at it.
>>
>> David.
>
> I have been reading a little into it....
I found more information on the PPAPI[1]. It looks like Mozilla just
stopped improving
the NPAPI and focus on w3c technology (JavaScript). This development
seems similar
to steps Microsoft is taking in IE-Metro (by removing plugin altogether).
yours
Martin.
[1] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/25/mozilla_on_npapi_pepper/
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 22/02/2012 18:20, David Arno wrote:
>> From: Dimitri k. [mailto:koro@noos.fr]
>> Sent: 22 February 2012 09:08
>>
>> No he was referring that future Flash Player linux version will be only
> available in Google Chrome.
> I can't decide if that is right or not. As the Pepper API is described as
> "cross-platform API for plugins for web browsers," that implies that other
> browsers could implement it too. If it is cross-platform though, why is
> Adobe ditching direct support for Flash for Linux only?
>
> Sadly, it is another nail in the coffin of Flex as a Flash-based technology,
> no matter how one looks at it.
>
> David.
I have been reading a little into it. At the beginning both Mozilla and
google were interested
in pursuing Pepper to resolve the NPAPI "mess". It seems like Mozilla
gave up its efforts[1].
PPAPI (Pepper Plugin API) is theoretically open source and free for
other platforms to integrate as
well but practically it seems to have become a part of the
NativeClient[2]. In other words: Firefox
would support the NativeClient if it would support Pepper. I guess that
is the main reason why they
drop the line there.
yours
Martin.
[1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/NPAPI:Pepper
[2] https://developers.google.com/native-client/reference/
RE: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by David Arno <da...@davidarno.org>.
> From: Dimitri k. [mailto:koro@noos.fr]
> Sent: 22 February 2012 09:08
>
> No he was referring that future Flash Player linux version will be only
available in Google Chrome.
I can't decide if that is right or not. As the Pepper API is described as
"cross-platform API for plugins for web browsers," that implies that other
browsers could implement it too. If it is cross-platform though, why is
Adobe ditching direct support for Flash for Linux only?
Sadly, it is another nail in the coffin of Flex as a Flash-based technology,
no matter how one looks at it.
David.
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by "Dimitri k." <ko...@noos.fr>.
From: "Martin Heidegger" <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>
>> We are not dropping Flash Player support for Linux. Indeed, we are
>> partnering with Google to provide a more robust implementation and
>> distribution method:
>> http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2012/02/adobe-and-google-partnering-for-flash-player-on-linux.html
>> mike chambers
> I think he was referring on AIR for Linux. Pepper is an important step
> forwards!
No he was referring that future Flash Player linux version will be only
available in Google Chrome.
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 22/02/2012 18:02, Mike Chambers wrote:
> We are not dropping Flash Player support for Linux. Indeed, we are partnering with Google to provide a more robust implementation and distribution method:
>
> http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2012/02/adobe-and-google-partnering-for-flash-player-on-linux.html
>
> mike chambers
>
>
I think he was referring on AIR for Linux. Pepper is an important step
forwards!
However: the loss of AIR for Linux is a big one.
yours
Martin.
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Mike Chambers <mc...@adobe.com>.
We are not dropping Flash Player support for Linux. Indeed, we are partnering with Google to provide a more robust implementation and distribution method:
http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2012/02/adobe-and-google-partnering-for-flash-player-on-linux.html
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com<ma...@adobe.com>
On Feb 22, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Haykel BEN JEMIA wrote:
Adobe is dropping more and more its support for the Flash runtime on
Linux!! I think it is really time to switch from this technology and never
look back. What a shame!
Haykel
On 22 February 2012 09:17, Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>> wrote:
Today Adobe released the Flash Platform roadmap. [1] I find the
ActionScript Next section quite interesting.
yours
Martin.
[1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flashplatform/whitepapers/**roadmap.html<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplatform/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Jason Batten <in...@jasonbatten.com>.
But why are they dropping support for Linux? Is it just a market share
thing?
On 22/02/2012 4:57 PM, Haykel BEN JEMIA wrote:
> Adobe is dropping more and more its support for the Flash runtime on
> Linux!! I think it is really time to switch from this technology and never
> look back. What a shame!
>
> Haykel
>
>
>
>
> On 22 February 2012 09:17, Martin Heidegger<mh...@leichtgewicht.at> wrote:
>
>> Today Adobe released the Flash Platform roadmap. [1] I find the
>> ActionScript Next section quite interesting.
>>
>> yours
>> Martin.
>>
>> [1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flashplatform/whitepapers/**roadmap.html<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplatform/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Haykel BEN JEMIA <ha...@gmail.com>.
Adobe is dropping more and more its support for the Flash runtime on
Linux!! I think it is really time to switch from this technology and never
look back. What a shame!
Haykel
On 22 February 2012 09:17, Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at> wrote:
> Today Adobe released the Flash Platform roadmap. [1] I find the
> ActionScript Next section quite interesting.
>
> yours
> Martin.
>
> [1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/**flashplatform/whitepapers/**roadmap.html<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplatform/whitepapers/roadmap.html>
>
Re: [OT] Flash Platform roadmap
Posted by Jason Batten <in...@jasonbatten.com>.
"Flash is the game console for the web", them fighting words. Sounds
exciting.
But it looks like they are turning Flash Builder (I miss Flex Builder)
into a Game Development software tool, interesting. I thought that's
what Flash Professional is for. What is it with Adobe and developing
"dedicated" software. Indie game developers aren't going to buy 4 pieces
of software at $400 each.
On 22/02/2012 4:17 PM, Martin Heidegger wrote:
> Today Adobe released the Flash Platform roadmap. [1] I find the
> ActionScript Next section quite interesting.
>
> yours
> Martin.
>
> [1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplatform/whitepapers/roadmap.html