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Posted to fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org by Christian Geisert <ch...@isu-gmbh.de> on 2003/01/18 17:06:25 UTC
[Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: xml.apache.org refactoring #1
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:12:53 -0800
From: Ted Leung <tw...@sauria.com>
Reply-To: general@xml.apache.org
To: <ge...@xml.apache.org>, <pm...@xml.apache.org>,
<xe...@xml.apache.org>, <xe...@xml.apache.org>,
<xe...@xml.apache.org>, <xa...@xml.apache.org>,
<co...@xml.apache.org>, <fo...@xml.apache.org>,
<fo...@xml.apache.org>, <xa...@xml.apache.org>,
<so...@xml.apache.org>, <ba...@xml.apache.org>,
<se...@xml.apache.org>, <xi...@xml.apache.org>,
<rp...@xml.apache.org>, <ax...@xml.apache.org>,
<cr...@xml.apache.org>
CC: <bo...@apache.org>
Greetings all,
From our discussion last December, it seems clear to me that most of
the subprojects are not interested in becoming top-level projects. It
also seems clear that people are interested broad based representation
in the XML PMC. I think that the best way to improve the issues
related to project oversight is to have a series of small refactorings.
So here's my proposal for the first refactoring:
We ask each subproject to nominate 1 (or 2) people from that project to
be a part of the XML PMC. From my experience, I think that it will
be better to have 2 people rather than one in order to share workload,
etc. I believe that both Axis (is Axis planning on taking SOAP with
it) and Cocoon are in the process of creating their own PMC's. They
would obviously be exempt from this.
I know that we're going to have some discussion about this (lets keep it
in general@) -- I encourage it -- but I've also noticed that things tend
to peter out after while and nothing happens, so I want to have an
endmarker. I propose to limit discussion on this proposal until next
Friday Jan 24. If this proposal is still being considered on the 24th,
then I'd propose that the subprojects nominate their folks by the
following Friday, Jan 31.
Ted
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
Hi Peter
On 22.01.2003 12:48:54 Peter B. West wrote:
> Without going back to the original posting, I suspect that the PMC does
> not want to have to sort out candidates. It is our job to decide on two
> nominations to the PMC, which the PMC intend, IIUC, to simply accept. I
> haven't followed the discussion beyond that, and I nominated only
> because we needed another nomination, and because, on reflection, it
> would look good on the CV. I hope this is not too crass an admission
> for the FOP sensibilities.
I think you're right.
The CV aspect also crossed my mind. :-)
> I'm not sure that the comment on releases is entirely accurate. It
> seems to me tha the responsibilities of the PMC are much braoder than
> that, but I may be wrong.
That was just one aspect I wanted to emphasize. They are responsible
(among other things) for the releases made by the various subprojects.
That's part of what establishes the legal protection for the software
made at Apache. At least, that's what I gathered from listening into the
lengthy discussions held on community and other mailing lists.
> What I thin kis more pertinent is that the
> PMC meets monthly. This is presumably an on-line meeting, but using
> what facilities? I am on the end of a state-of-the-art 33k dialup link,
> and I wonder if this would cause problems.
I guess I can be happy to have an 256/64 ADSL line available. I'd rip my
hair out if I had to work with an 33k dialup link. :-)
> In any case, it's up to us to work out who we want our representatives
> on the PMC to be, and forward one or two names. That's my take on the
> matter.
Yep.
Let's hope the others also share their thoughts with us.
Jeremias Maerki
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Christian Geisert wrote:
>. . .
> +1 for Jeremias and Peter
+1 here too - thanks for stepping up!
-Bertrand
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by "J.Pietschmann" <j3...@yahoo.de>.
Christian Geisert wrote:
> +1 for Jeremias and Peter
me too +1
J.Pietschmann
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by Christian Geisert <ch...@isu-gmbh.de>.
Peter B. West wrote:
[..]
> In any case, it's up to us to work out who we want our representatives
> on the PMC to be, and forward one or two names. That's my take on the
> matter.
That's how I understand it too.
And to simplify the nomination I'm stepping back.
+1 for Jeremias and Peter
Christian
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by "Peter B. West" <pb...@powerup.com.au>.
Jeremias,
Without going back to the original posting, I suspect that the PMC does
not want to have to sort out candidates. It is our job to decide on two
nominations to the PMC, which the PMC intend, IIUC, to simply accept. I
haven't followed the discussion beyond that, and I nominated only
because we needed another nomination, and because, on reflection, it
would look good on the CV. I hope this is not too crass an admission
for the FOP sensibilities.
I'm not sure that the comment on releases is entirely accurate. It
seems to me tha the responsibilities of the PMC are much braoder than
that, but I may be wrong. What I thin kis more pertinent is that the
PMC meets monthly. This is presumably an on-line meeting, but using
what facilities? I am on the end of a state-of-the-art 33k dialup link,
and I wonder if this would cause problems.
In any case, it's up to us to work out who we want our representatives
on the PMC to be, and forward one or two names. That's my take on the
matter.
Peter
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> Deperated volunteers? I can do without, I was just taking responsibility
> because nobody wanted to take the first step. :-)
>
> I really don't know. If you look here:http://xml.apache.org/management.html.
> The PMC elects new members. So in theory all we can do is provide
> candidates, but obviously not all of us are well known to the current
> PMC members. So how would the they choose? They might leave that to us.
> I don't know.
>
> One point I'd like to make is the following: Christian is our current
> release manager. Since the PMC role has a lot to do with releases, he is
> an obvious candidate IMO. That doesn't mean I should be the other just
> because I volunteered first or something like that. This is one
> objective point for Christian and zero for Peter and me.
>
> Common guys! I'd like to have some participation on this matter from all
> the committers since this an important thing.
>
> On 21.01.2003 13:38:47 Oleg Tkachenko wrote:
>
>>Ok, we've got 3 desperated volunteers. Should we vote?
--
Peter B. West pbwest@powerup.com.au http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/
"Lord, to whom shall we go?"
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RE: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by Victor Mote <vi...@outfitr.com>.
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> Common guys! I'd like to have some participation on this matter from all
> the committers since this an important thing.
Sorry. I guess it is not a big deal to me. I'm sure it is important, I just
don't understand what is required well enough to determine why A would be
better than B. I can't think of anybody in this group who would represent us
and our interests poorly.
Christian Geisert wrote:
> And to simplify the nomination I'm stepping back.
>
> +1 for Jeremias and Peter
Two very fine candidates.
+1
Victor Mote
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
Deperated volunteers? I can do without, I was just taking responsibility
because nobody wanted to take the first step. :-)
I really don't know. If you look here:http://xml.apache.org/management.html.
The PMC elects new members. So in theory all we can do is provide
candidates, but obviously not all of us are well known to the current
PMC members. So how would the they choose? They might leave that to us.
I don't know.
One point I'd like to make is the following: Christian is our current
release manager. Since the PMC role has a lot to do with releases, he is
an obvious candidate IMO. That doesn't mean I should be the other just
because I volunteered first or something like that. This is one
objective point for Christian and zero for Peter and me.
Common guys! I'd like to have some participation on this matter from all
the committers since this an important thing.
On 21.01.2003 13:38:47 Oleg Tkachenko wrote:
> Ok, we've got 3 desperated volunteers. Should we vote?
Jeremias Maerki
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by Oleg Tkachenko <ol...@multiconn.com>.
Hello there!
Ok, we've got 3 desperated volunteers. Should we vote?
--
Oleg Tkachenko
eXperanto team
Multiconn Technologies, Israel
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by Christian Geisert <ch...@isu-gmbh.de>.
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> I'm for having two. Takers?
Yes, two is better.
I'd be happy to volunteer too.
Christian
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by "Peter B. West" <pb...@powerup.com.au>.
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> I'm for having two. Takers?
>
> On 21.01.2003 00:12:58 Peter B. West wrote:
>
>>Next question: should we go with 1 or get another nomination?
>
Ok. I'll put my hat in the ring.
Peter
--
Peter B. West pbwest@powerup.com.au http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/
"Lord, to whom shall we go?"
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
I'm for having two. Takers?
On 21.01.2003 00:12:58 Peter B. West wrote:
> Next question: should we go with 1 or get another nomination?
Jeremias Maerki
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by Oleg Tkachenko <ol...@multiconn.com>.
Peter B. West wrote:
> Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>
>> I'd volunteer if nobody else wants the job.
> +1
+1
> Next question: should we go with 1 or get another nomination?
Well, Ted has asked for 2, so why not?
--
Oleg Tkachenko
eXperanto team
Multiconn Technologies, Israel
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by "Peter B. West" <pb...@powerup.com.au>.
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> I'd volunteer if nobody else wants the job.
>
> On 20.01.2003 11:48:31 Oleg Tkachenko wrote:
>
>>Christian Geisert wrote:
>>
>>
>>>From: Ted Leung <tw...@sauria.com>
>>
>>>We ask each subproject to nominate 1 (or 2) people from that project to
>>>be a part of the XML PMC. From my experience, I think that it will
>>>be better to have 2 people rather than one in order to share workload,
>>>etc.
>>
>>So, they want 2 people, I believe it's not a problem for us to elect them,
>>let's start - candidates?
>
Jeremias,
+1
Next question: should we go with 1 or get another nomination?
Peter
--
Peter B. West pbwest@powerup.com.au http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/
"Lord, to whom shall we go?"
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
I'd volunteer if nobody else wants the job.
On 20.01.2003 11:48:31 Oleg Tkachenko wrote:
> Christian Geisert wrote:
>
> > From: Ted Leung <tw...@sauria.com>
>
> > We ask each subproject to nominate 1 (or 2) people from that project to
> > be a part of the XML PMC. From my experience, I think that it will
> > be better to have 2 people rather than one in order to share workload,
> > etc.
> So, they want 2 people, I believe it's not a problem for us to elect them,
> let's start - candidates?
Jeremias Maerki
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Re: [Fwd: xml.apache.org refactoring #1]
Posted by Oleg Tkachenko <ol...@multiconn.com>.
Christian Geisert wrote:
> From: Ted Leung <tw...@sauria.com>
> We ask each subproject to nominate 1 (or 2) people from that project to
> be a part of the XML PMC. From my experience, I think that it will
> be better to have 2 people rather than one in order to share workload,
> etc.
So, they want 2 people, I believe it's not a problem for us to elect them,
let's start - candidates?
--
Oleg Tkachenko
eXperanto team
Multiconn Technologies, Israel
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