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Posted to dev@continuum.apache.org by Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> on 2008/02/13 06:01:40 UTC
Re: wiki was: [Discussion] Continuum 2.0 Roadmap
Ok, I've created two wiki's:
http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CONTINUUM/Index
(exported to: http://cwiki.apache.org/CONTINUUM/)
This one is open to all users to edit, so is the traditional wiki/
cookbook area.
http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CONTINUUMDEV/Index
(exported to: http://cwiki.apache.org/CONTINUUMDEV/)
This one is editable by developers only (accepts comments from
anyone). This is for the roadmap and design docs. I only granted
access to a few people that I could easily find - if you need to edit,
just let me or a confluence admin know.
So once this is migrated, we can point the Codehaus ones at this.
I have not yet set up an rsync to people.apache.org - if there's a
place we should house this under the Continuum site we can do that.
Also, the template probably needs some modifications.
Cheers,
Brett
On 07/02/2008, at 6:04 AM, Rahul Thakur wrote:
>
> If everyone is happy to keep the history till date on codehaus wiki,
> I can help copy stuff across to Apache wiki :-)
>
> Rahul
>
>
> Brett Porter wrote:
>> We can create such a wiki any time - the challenge is converting
>> existing content. If someone is happy to lose history and do it by
>> hand, it can be done straight away.
>>
>> On 06/02/2008, at 9:25 PM, Rahul Thakur wrote:
>>
>>> Some good points emerging from this discussion! :-)
>>>
>>> Would it be a nice idea to put following on wiki:
>>> 1) State goals/philosophy for C2 in light of lessons learnt from
>>> 1.x development - lean, mean, extensible (~add any other here~)
>>> 2) Document *all* features/requirements we want to see in C2 on
>>> wiki (even if they are already present in 1.x!).
>>> 3) Draw a proposed architecture.
>>> 4) Assign items in (1) a priority/weight. Add use-cases to each
>>> item in (1) to determine this.
>>> 5) Group the priortised requirements/features into milestones.
>>> 6) Start cutting code.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> PS: Codehaus wiki seems to be very slow. Any chance we can have a
>>> space created on Apache wiki? Or, I guess it will have to wait for
>>> TLP vote.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Rahul
>>>
>>> Brett Porter wrote:
>>>> This looks very exciting, and agree with most of the thread that
>>>> follows. I'm just going to reply in summary - most of my thoughts
>>>> are actually non-technical :)
>>>>
>>>> Regarding databases: I don't think xml files are the solution
>>>> (except for the configuration where it makes a lot more sense :)
>>>> - the data needs to be queryable. I think Andy made a good point
>>>> in his comment on the roadmap - we need to look at the actual
>>>> problems. Here's what I think needs to be improved:
>>>> - better centralisation of access. The architecture of Continuum
>>>> bleeds JDO decisions all through the code since you access lazy
>>>> stuff for the first time in obscure places.
>>>> - I think this might be that the model is too complicated (sorry,
>>>> my fault) - it assumes complex relationships are handled easily.
>>>> It seems to be going ok these days, but I feel it would be hard
>>>> to modify.
>>>> I haven't looked at Rahul's branch yet, but I think we should
>>>> consider a more decoupled database (ie, lookup build results for
>>>> a project but keep them separate in the model to avoid the need
>>>> to lazyload 90% of the time), and more centralised database
>>>> logic. I would consider JPA just because it gives more options in
>>>> terms of an implementation. It is quite easy to use from a
>>>> development standpoint. But we also need to consider what
>>>> functionality is needed up front - I think high on the list needs
>>>> to be migrations between versions. Also, We are probably going to
>>>> need to store more data in the future, and be able to query it
>>>> (particularly historical datapoints).
>>>>
>>>> On the container: I would prefer to move off Plexus simply
>>>> because it's a moving target and it's a barrier to entry for new
>>>> developers.
>>>>
>>>> Now, my more general observations. Firstly, the roadmap doesn't
>>>> appear to have any features - these are all technology changes.
>>>> Some of that might be cool and a feature in itself, but I think
>>>> there needs to be a balance between evolution, features, and
>>>> bugfixing. I would also emphasise that features should be
>>>> creative new things Continuum can do (for which we've had plenty
>>>> of ideas), not just catching up to other CI servers :)
>>>>
>>>> I think the first part of the roadmap is key - separating the
>>>> layers out, and basically building Continuum to be lightweight
>>>> and distributed from the ground up. I hope that's the focus of
>>>> the development. Note this also impacts the database as it should
>>>> store much less information on builder machines (it can ship
>>>> history back to the main server).
>>>>
>>>> I also think that supporting plugins is a good idea - it has been
>>>> a huge bonus in other apps and in Maven itself. I'd like to
>>>> investigate using OSGi for this.
>>>>
>>>> But by far the biggest question I have is what happened to 1.2? I
>>>> think Continuum needs to set a target to achieve, but get there
>>>> in gradual steps that at each stage sees a production release.
>>>> The long 1.1 cycle really set Continuum back - a lot of it was
>>>> changing features, but there was also a lot of changing
>>>> technologies :) I don't think Continuum will survive another year-
>>>> and-a-half release cycle. So the start could be to break all the
>>>> actions out (plexus, not webwork) into services and add some
>>>> features, then the next release could adjust the database model
>>>> and add some other features. And as we split these things out we
>>>> make sure they are nicely documented and tested.
>>>>
>>>> That's my thoughts :)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Brett
>>>>
>>>> On 30/01/2008, at 9:34 AM, Emmanuel Venisse wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> I started a document [1] with my ideas about Continuum 2.
>>>>> As you can see in this doc, I want to add lot of things in the
>>>>> next version.
>>>>>
>>>>> Feel free to comment on it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/CONTINUUM/Continuum+2.0+Design+Discussion
>>>>>
>>>>> Emmanuel
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
--
Brett Porter
brett@apache.org
http://blogs.exist.com/bporter/
Re: wiki was: [Discussion] Continuum 2.0 Roadmap
Posted by Rahul Thakur <ra...@gmail.com>.
I have created an page for Continuum 2.0 related stuff (treat this as a
dashboard with links to related C2 docs).
http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CONTINUUMDEV/Draft+-+Continuum+2.0
The other content will keep moving in the background.
Cheers,
Rahul
Emmanuel Venisse wrote:
> Thanks Brett.
>
> I'm +1 to open it.
>
> Emmanuel
>
> On Feb 13, 2008 8:43 AM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
>> no, permissions changes are non-destructive :)
>>
>> On 13/02/2008, at 6:33 PM, Rahul Thakur wrote:
>>
>>
>>> +1 as long as editing it requires a login :-)
>>>
>>> Should I hold off the migration from Codehaus?
>>>
>>> Rahul
>>>
>>> On Feb 13, 2008 6:32 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 13/02/2008, at 4:04 PM, Wendy Smoak wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 12, 2008 10:01 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, I've created two wiki's:
>>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CONTINUUMDEV/Index
>>>>>> (exported to: http://cwiki.apache.org/CONTINUUMDEV/)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This one is editable by developers only (accepts comments from
>>>>>> anyone). This is for the roadmap and design docs. I only granted
>>>>>> access to a few people that I could easily find - if you need to
>>>>>> edit,
>>>>>> just let me or a confluence admin know.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Why would we not want to allow the community to participate in
>>>>> roadmap
>>>>> and design docs?
>>>>>
>>>>> The only reason I can think of to restrict access is to make sure we
>>>>> have a CLA for content we intend to redistribute.
>>>>>
>>>> Both good points - I was following what we had in Maven already -
>>>> what
>>>> do others think - shall we just open it up? Or do we not even need
>>>> the
>>>> DEV space?
>>>>
>>>> - Brett
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Brett Porter
>>>> brett@apache.org
>>>>
>>>> http://blogs.exist.com/bporter/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> --
>> Brett Porter
>> brett@apache.org
>> http://blogs.exist.com/bporter/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: wiki was: [Discussion] Continuum 2.0 Roadmap
Posted by Emmanuel Venisse <em...@gmail.com>.
Thanks Brett.
I'm +1 to open it.
Emmanuel
On Feb 13, 2008 8:43 AM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> no, permissions changes are non-destructive :)
>
> On 13/02/2008, at 6:33 PM, Rahul Thakur wrote:
>
> > +1 as long as editing it requires a login :-)
> >
> > Should I hold off the migration from Codehaus?
> >
> > Rahul
> >
> > On Feb 13, 2008 6:32 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 13/02/2008, at 4:04 PM, Wendy Smoak wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Feb 12, 2008 10:01 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>> Ok, I've created two wiki's:
> >>> ...
> >>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CONTINUUMDEV/Index
> >>>> (exported to: http://cwiki.apache.org/CONTINUUMDEV/)
> >>>>
> >>>> This one is editable by developers only (accepts comments from
> >>>> anyone). This is for the roadmap and design docs. I only granted
> >>>> access to a few people that I could easily find - if you need to
> >>>> edit,
> >>>> just let me or a confluence admin know.
> >>>
> >>> Why would we not want to allow the community to participate in
> >>> roadmap
> >>> and design docs?
> >>>
> >>> The only reason I can think of to restrict access is to make sure we
> >>> have a CLA for content we intend to redistribute.
> >>
> >> Both good points - I was following what we had in Maven already -
> >> what
> >> do others think - shall we just open it up? Or do we not even need
> >> the
> >> DEV space?
> >>
> >> - Brett
> >>
> >> --
> >> Brett Porter
> >> brett@apache.org
> >>
> >> http://blogs.exist.com/bporter/
> >>
> >>
>
> --
> Brett Porter
> brett@apache.org
> http://blogs.exist.com/bporter/
>
>
Re: wiki was: [Discussion] Continuum 2.0 Roadmap
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>.
no, permissions changes are non-destructive :)
On 13/02/2008, at 6:33 PM, Rahul Thakur wrote:
> +1 as long as editing it requires a login :-)
>
> Should I hold off the migration from Codehaus?
>
> Rahul
>
> On Feb 13, 2008 6:32 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 13/02/2008, at 4:04 PM, Wendy Smoak wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2008 10:01 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> Ok, I've created two wiki's:
>>> ...
>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CONTINUUMDEV/Index
>>>> (exported to: http://cwiki.apache.org/CONTINUUMDEV/)
>>>>
>>>> This one is editable by developers only (accepts comments from
>>>> anyone). This is for the roadmap and design docs. I only granted
>>>> access to a few people that I could easily find - if you need to
>>>> edit,
>>>> just let me or a confluence admin know.
>>>
>>> Why would we not want to allow the community to participate in
>>> roadmap
>>> and design docs?
>>>
>>> The only reason I can think of to restrict access is to make sure we
>>> have a CLA for content we intend to redistribute.
>>
>> Both good points - I was following what we had in Maven already -
>> what
>> do others think - shall we just open it up? Or do we not even need
>> the
>> DEV space?
>>
>> - Brett
>>
>> --
>> Brett Porter
>> brett@apache.org
>>
>> http://blogs.exist.com/bporter/
>>
>>
--
Brett Porter
brett@apache.org
http://blogs.exist.com/bporter/
Re: wiki was: [Discussion] Continuum 2.0 Roadmap
Posted by Rahul Thakur <ra...@gmail.com>.
+1 as long as editing it requires a login :-)
Should I hold off the migration from Codehaus?
Rahul
On Feb 13, 2008 6:32 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> On 13/02/2008, at 4:04 PM, Wendy Smoak wrote:
>
> > On Feb 12, 2008 10:01 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> Ok, I've created two wiki's:
> > ...
> >> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CONTINUUMDEV/Index
> >> (exported to: http://cwiki.apache.org/CONTINUUMDEV/)
> >>
> >> This one is editable by developers only (accepts comments from
> >> anyone). This is for the roadmap and design docs. I only granted
> >> access to a few people that I could easily find - if you need to
> >> edit,
> >> just let me or a confluence admin know.
> >
> > Why would we not want to allow the community to participate in roadmap
> > and design docs?
> >
> > The only reason I can think of to restrict access is to make sure we
> > have a CLA for content we intend to redistribute.
>
> Both good points - I was following what we had in Maven already - what
> do others think - shall we just open it up? Or do we not even need the
> DEV space?
>
> - Brett
>
> --
> Brett Porter
> brett@apache.org
>
> http://blogs.exist.com/bporter/
>
>
Re: wiki was: [Discussion] Continuum 2.0 Roadmap
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>.
On 13/02/2008, at 4:04 PM, Wendy Smoak wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2008 10:01 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Ok, I've created two wiki's:
> ...
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CONTINUUMDEV/Index
>> (exported to: http://cwiki.apache.org/CONTINUUMDEV/)
>>
>> This one is editable by developers only (accepts comments from
>> anyone). This is for the roadmap and design docs. I only granted
>> access to a few people that I could easily find - if you need to
>> edit,
>> just let me or a confluence admin know.
>
> Why would we not want to allow the community to participate in roadmap
> and design docs?
>
> The only reason I can think of to restrict access is to make sure we
> have a CLA for content we intend to redistribute.
Both good points - I was following what we had in Maven already - what
do others think - shall we just open it up? Or do we not even need the
DEV space?
- Brett
--
Brett Porter
brett@apache.org
http://blogs.exist.com/bporter/
Re: wiki was: [Discussion] Continuum 2.0 Roadmap
Posted by Wendy Smoak <ws...@gmail.com>.
On Feb 12, 2008 10:01 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> Ok, I've created two wiki's:
...
> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CONTINUUMDEV/Index
> (exported to: http://cwiki.apache.org/CONTINUUMDEV/)
>
> This one is editable by developers only (accepts comments from
> anyone). This is for the roadmap and design docs. I only granted
> access to a few people that I could easily find - if you need to edit,
> just let me or a confluence admin know.
Why would we not want to allow the community to participate in roadmap
and design docs?
The only reason I can think of to restrict access is to make sure we
have a CLA for content we intend to redistribute.
--
Wendy