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Posted to users@netbeans.apache.org by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID> on 2018/03/06 16:50:19 UTC
Long Live NetBeans!
Hi all
Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support its longevity?
Thanks
Ashton
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Ashton,
Please tone down the aggression a little bit. No one is saying that freedom
of speech is not allowed here.
Yes, with Apache NetBeans, like any other Apache project, you're allowed to
do whatever the Apache license allows you to do.
Can we all get along? :-)
Now, let's focus on getting Apache NetBeans (incubating) released!
Thanks,
Geertjan
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid>
wrote:
> Hey Neil, a small suggestion, don't tell everyone that their freedom of
> speech is not allowed here and then also "welcome it" in the same
> paragraph. No one's interested in staying within your little box and
> waiting for you to give them a permission slip to have an idea.
>
> Non-commercial doesn't have more working options than commercial, this is
> simply false. Go browse around on github right now, see for yourself how
> great the percentage of projects there are just dead and dormant. With
> commercial software, it tends to live while it's profitable and when it's a
> bad idea or poorly run, it disappears. Survival of the fittest in action.
>
> You say that these ideas are "impossible" and that it's "trolling" - is it
> really? As far as I can tell, if Apache was truly open about things (which
> I know they aren't), nothing stops me from taking the netbeans source code,
> applying a commercial license and keeping all the profit for myself.
> Obviously that helps no one but it certainly proves that it's not
> impossible.
>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 15:36:58 GMT, Neil C Smith <
> neilcsmith@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 at 15:08 José J. Rodriguez <jo...@cenpalab.cu>
> wrote:
>
> Anyway, it seems to me that "capitalism" has actually proven not to be a
> good role model for software development, see Windows bugs and backdoors
> vs. Linux security,
>
>
> I realise you put it in quotation marks, but can we please stop
> perpetuating this myth of the equivalence of capitalism and closed-source
> software. I mean, Linux is mostly developed by corporations, including
> Microsoft, right?!
>
> NetBeans is an ASF project, it has to play by the rules here, and at the
> same time we need to make sure it thrives here. But the only measures of
> that success are what we decide them to be. So, constructive input to that
> seems welcome, impossible suggestions or criticism bordering on trolling,
> less so!
>
> Aside - whenever anyone asks why I use open-source / Linux over Windows,
> my stock response is always that I got fed up of paying for stuff that
> doesn't work properly. Now I've got loads of other stuff that doesn't work
> properly, but at least I don't feel ripped off for it! ;-)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
Hey Neil, a small suggestion, don't tell everyone that their freedom of speech is not allowed here and then also "welcome it" in the same paragraph. No one's interested in staying within your little box and waiting for you to give them a permission slip to have an idea.
Non-commercial doesn't have more working options than commercial, this is simply false. Go browse around on github right now, see for yourself how great the percentage of projects there are just dead and dormant. With commercial software, it tends to live while it's profitable and when it's a bad idea or poorly run, it disappears. Survival of the fittest in action.
You say that these ideas are "impossible" and that it's "trolling" - is it really? As far as I can tell, if Apache was truly open about things (which I know they aren't), nothing stops me from taking the netbeans source code, applying a commercial license and keeping all the profit for myself. Obviously that helps no one but it certainly proves that it's not impossible.
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 15:36:58 GMT, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 at 15:08 José J. Rodriguez <jo...@cenpalab.cu> wrote:
Anyway, it seems to me that "capitalism" has actually proven not to be a
good role model for software development, see Windows bugs and backdoors
vs. Linux security,
I realise you put it in quotation marks, but can we please stop perpetuating this myth of the equivalence of capitalism and closed-source software. I mean, Linux is mostly developed by corporations, including Microsoft, right?!
NetBeans is an ASF project, it has to play by the rules here, and at the same time we need to make sure it thrives here. But the only measures of that success are what we decide them to be. So, constructive input to that seems welcome, impossible suggestions or criticism bordering on trolling, less so!
Aside - whenever anyone asks why I use open-source / Linux over Windows, my stock response is always that I got fed up of paying for stuff that doesn't work properly. Now I've got loads of other stuff that doesn't work properly, but at least I don't feel ripped off for it! ;-)
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C SmithArtist & Technologistwww.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by John Muczynski <jo...@gmail.com>.
Hi Owen,
Maybe you've already looked in this direction; but I'll mention it anyway
in case you haven't.
You might be interested to look at these two:
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/573183274
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/532606141
Good keywords seem to be
"100% remote"
"100% telecommute"
Now, on the LinkedIn site, you can search the location called Worldwide.
The Indeed.com site has a location called Remote, but they appear to only
have data for the USA.
Hope this helps !
Kind Regards,
Johnny
--
Johnny Muczynski
734-262-2045
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 7:40 PM, Owen Thomas <ow...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/owen-thomas-84564a13b/ I think will be me.
>
> On 8 March 2018 at 11:32, John Muczynski <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There are 933 Owen Thomas in LinkedIn !
>>
>>
>> --
>> Johnny Muczynski
>> 734-262-2045 <(734)%20262-2045>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 7:20 PM, Owen Thomas <ow...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been unemployed since 2008. It seems that the industry is blind to
>>> people who want to contribute in a way that does not see them ensconced in
>>> a nomadic lifestyle where the contributor must move involuntarily at the
>>> whims of employers. I've hence resolved only to contribute time voluntarily
>>> when (or indeed if) I find an employer who understands that I can make a
>>> contribution without having to consider relocation.
>>>
>>> If you know anyone who will let me work this way, then let me know.
>>> You'll find that I have a LinkedIn profile.
>>>
>>> On 8 March 2018 at 10:46, Frank Burough <fr...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Owen:
>>>>
>>>> I am a currently unemployed software engineer myself. I have been in
>>>> the industry in various roles for well over 30 years but am not ready to
>>>> retire. However, I look at my current time of unemployment as an
>>>> opportunity to pay back to the NetBeans community some of what I have
>>>> gained from it. Until the recent emails about joining the NetCAT 9.0 effort
>>>> I had not considered volunteering for the work. However, after completing
>>>> this email to you I will sign up to put my time where my mouth is. I can
>>>> afford the time now, once I am employed again I will not be able to.
>>>>
>>>> I don’t mean to be critical of you, just trying to offer a different
>>>> viewpoint on being unemployed at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> Take care,
>>>>
>>>> Frank Burough
>>>>
>>>> > On Mar 7, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Owen Thomas <ow...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I quite enjoy NetBeans, and I would like to aver my wishes for it's
>>>> ongoing success. I am looking at contributing to this thread with some
>>>> hesitation, so I'll put my statements forth, and then see what becomes of
>>>> what I say before I venture more.
>>>> >
>>>> > Contributing more than "anonymous usage data" is a contentious move
>>>> for me because I am somewhat sore over the fact that I cannot secure a paid
>>>> job in an industry which I have sought contribution since I was 15 (29
>>>> years' ago). I don't find the proposition encouraging of my offering my
>>>> time for nothing in an industry (a wider context than just NetBeans) too
>>>> conceited to pay for my time as a contributor who would work in a part-time
>>>> capacity and from a place of his own choosing.
>>>> >
>>>> > Although I appear to gain from the voluntary contribution of others
>>>> to this extent, I want someone to start paying me for the skills I have
>>>> honed over nearly three decades in such a way as I can make a sustainable
>>>> contribution. I don't want to give my time freely within this industry
>>>> unless I first derive an income with the skills I have.
>>>> >
>>>> > Sorry that I cannot contribute any more than usage data.
>>>> >
>>>> > Owen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Owen Thomas <ow...@gmail.com>.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/owen-thomas-84564a13b/ I think will be me.
On 8 March 2018 at 11:32, John Muczynski <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are 933 Owen Thomas in LinkedIn !
>
>
> --
> Johnny Muczynski
> 734-262-2045
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 7:20 PM, Owen Thomas <ow...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I've been unemployed since 2008. It seems that the industry is blind to
>> people who want to contribute in a way that does not see them ensconced in
>> a nomadic lifestyle where the contributor must move involuntarily at the
>> whims of employers. I've hence resolved only to contribute time voluntarily
>> when (or indeed if) I find an employer who understands that I can make a
>> contribution without having to consider relocation.
>>
>> If you know anyone who will let me work this way, then let me know.
>> You'll find that I have a LinkedIn profile.
>>
>> On 8 March 2018 at 10:46, Frank Burough <fr...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Owen:
>>>
>>> I am a currently unemployed software engineer myself. I have been in the
>>> industry in various roles for well over 30 years but am not ready to
>>> retire. However, I look at my current time of unemployment as an
>>> opportunity to pay back to the NetBeans community some of what I have
>>> gained from it. Until the recent emails about joining the NetCAT 9.0 effort
>>> I had not considered volunteering for the work. However, after completing
>>> this email to you I will sign up to put my time where my mouth is. I can
>>> afford the time now, once I am employed again I will not be able to.
>>>
>>> I don’t mean to be critical of you, just trying to offer a different
>>> viewpoint on being unemployed at the moment.
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>>
>>> Frank Burough
>>>
>>> > On Mar 7, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Owen Thomas <ow...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I quite enjoy NetBeans, and I would like to aver my wishes for it's
>>> ongoing success. I am looking at contributing to this thread with some
>>> hesitation, so I'll put my statements forth, and then see what becomes of
>>> what I say before I venture more.
>>> >
>>> > Contributing more than "anonymous usage data" is a contentious move
>>> for me because I am somewhat sore over the fact that I cannot secure a paid
>>> job in an industry which I have sought contribution since I was 15 (29
>>> years' ago). I don't find the proposition encouraging of my offering my
>>> time for nothing in an industry (a wider context than just NetBeans) too
>>> conceited to pay for my time as a contributor who would work in a part-time
>>> capacity and from a place of his own choosing.
>>> >
>>> > Although I appear to gain from the voluntary contribution of others to
>>> this extent, I want someone to start paying me for the skills I have honed
>>> over nearly three decades in such a way as I can make a sustainable
>>> contribution. I don't want to give my time freely within this industry
>>> unless I first derive an income with the skills I have.
>>> >
>>> > Sorry that I cannot contribute any more than usage data.
>>> >
>>> > Owen.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by John Muczynski <jo...@gmail.com>.
There are 933 Owen Thomas in LinkedIn !
--
Johnny Muczynski
734-262-2045
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 7:20 PM, Owen Thomas <ow...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I've been unemployed since 2008. It seems that the industry is blind to
> people who want to contribute in a way that does not see them ensconced in
> a nomadic lifestyle where the contributor must move involuntarily at the
> whims of employers. I've hence resolved only to contribute time voluntarily
> when (or indeed if) I find an employer who understands that I can make a
> contribution without having to consider relocation.
>
> If you know anyone who will let me work this way, then let me know. You'll
> find that I have a LinkedIn profile.
>
> On 8 March 2018 at 10:46, Frank Burough <fr...@icloud.com> wrote:
>
>> Owen:
>>
>> I am a currently unemployed software engineer myself. I have been in the
>> industry in various roles for well over 30 years but am not ready to
>> retire. However, I look at my current time of unemployment as an
>> opportunity to pay back to the NetBeans community some of what I have
>> gained from it. Until the recent emails about joining the NetCAT 9.0 effort
>> I had not considered volunteering for the work. However, after completing
>> this email to you I will sign up to put my time where my mouth is. I can
>> afford the time now, once I am employed again I will not be able to.
>>
>> I don’t mean to be critical of you, just trying to offer a different
>> viewpoint on being unemployed at the moment.
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Frank Burough
>>
>> > On Mar 7, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Owen Thomas <ow...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I quite enjoy NetBeans, and I would like to aver my wishes for it's
>> ongoing success. I am looking at contributing to this thread with some
>> hesitation, so I'll put my statements forth, and then see what becomes of
>> what I say before I venture more.
>> >
>> > Contributing more than "anonymous usage data" is a contentious move for
>> me because I am somewhat sore over the fact that I cannot secure a paid job
>> in an industry which I have sought contribution since I was 15 (29 years'
>> ago). I don't find the proposition encouraging of my offering my time for
>> nothing in an industry (a wider context than just NetBeans) too conceited
>> to pay for my time as a contributor who would work in a part-time capacity
>> and from a place of his own choosing.
>> >
>> > Although I appear to gain from the voluntary contribution of others to
>> this extent, I want someone to start paying me for the skills I have honed
>> over nearly three decades in such a way as I can make a sustainable
>> contribution. I don't want to give my time freely within this industry
>> unless I first derive an income with the skills I have.
>> >
>> > Sorry that I cannot contribute any more than usage data.
>> >
>> > Owen.
>>
>>
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Owen Thomas <ow...@gmail.com>.
I've been unemployed since 2008. It seems that the industry is blind to
people who want to contribute in a way that does not see them ensconced in
a nomadic lifestyle where the contributor must move involuntarily at the
whims of employers. I've hence resolved only to contribute time voluntarily
when (or indeed if) I find an employer who understands that I can make a
contribution without having to consider relocation.
If you know anyone who will let me work this way, then let me know. You'll
find that I have a LinkedIn profile.
On 8 March 2018 at 10:46, Frank Burough <fr...@icloud.com> wrote:
> Owen:
>
> I am a currently unemployed software engineer myself. I have been in the
> industry in various roles for well over 30 years but am not ready to
> retire. However, I look at my current time of unemployment as an
> opportunity to pay back to the NetBeans community some of what I have
> gained from it. Until the recent emails about joining the NetCAT 9.0 effort
> I had not considered volunteering for the work. However, after completing
> this email to you I will sign up to put my time where my mouth is. I can
> afford the time now, once I am employed again I will not be able to.
>
> I don’t mean to be critical of you, just trying to offer a different
> viewpoint on being unemployed at the moment.
>
> Take care,
>
> Frank Burough
>
> > On Mar 7, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Owen Thomas <ow...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I quite enjoy NetBeans, and I would like to aver my wishes for it's
> ongoing success. I am looking at contributing to this thread with some
> hesitation, so I'll put my statements forth, and then see what becomes of
> what I say before I venture more.
> >
> > Contributing more than "anonymous usage data" is a contentious move for
> me because I am somewhat sore over the fact that I cannot secure a paid job
> in an industry which I have sought contribution since I was 15 (29 years'
> ago). I don't find the proposition encouraging of my offering my time for
> nothing in an industry (a wider context than just NetBeans) too conceited
> to pay for my time as a contributor who would work in a part-time capacity
> and from a place of his own choosing.
> >
> > Although I appear to gain from the voluntary contribution of others to
> this extent, I want someone to start paying me for the skills I have honed
> over nearly three decades in such a way as I can make a sustainable
> contribution. I don't want to give my time freely within this industry
> unless I first derive an income with the skills I have.
> >
> > Sorry that I cannot contribute any more than usage data.
> >
> > Owen.
>
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Frank Burough <fr...@icloud.com>.
Owen:
I am a currently unemployed software engineer myself. I have been in the industry in various roles for well over 30 years but am not ready to retire. However, I look at my current time of unemployment as an opportunity to pay back to the NetBeans community some of what I have gained from it. Until the recent emails about joining the NetCAT 9.0 effort I had not considered volunteering for the work. However, after completing this email to you I will sign up to put my time where my mouth is. I can afford the time now, once I am employed again I will not be able to.
I don’t mean to be critical of you, just trying to offer a different viewpoint on being unemployed at the moment.
Take care,
Frank Burough
> On Mar 7, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Owen Thomas <ow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I quite enjoy NetBeans, and I would like to aver my wishes for it's ongoing success. I am looking at contributing to this thread with some hesitation, so I'll put my statements forth, and then see what becomes of what I say before I venture more.
>
> Contributing more than "anonymous usage data" is a contentious move for me because I am somewhat sore over the fact that I cannot secure a paid job in an industry which I have sought contribution since I was 15 (29 years' ago). I don't find the proposition encouraging of my offering my time for nothing in an industry (a wider context than just NetBeans) too conceited to pay for my time as a contributor who would work in a part-time capacity and from a place of his own choosing.
>
> Although I appear to gain from the voluntary contribution of others to this extent, I want someone to start paying me for the skills I have honed over nearly three decades in such a way as I can make a sustainable contribution. I don't want to give my time freely within this industry unless I first derive an income with the skills I have.
>
> Sorry that I cannot contribute any more than usage data.
>
> Owen.
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Owen Thomas <ow...@gmail.com>.
I quite enjoy NetBeans, and I would like to aver my wishes for it's ongoing
success. I am looking at contributing to this thread with some hesitation,
so I'll put my statements forth, and then see what becomes of what I say
before I venture more.
Contributing more than "anonymous usage data" is a contentious move for me
because I am somewhat sore over the fact that I cannot secure a paid job in
an industry which I have sought contribution since I was 15 (29 years'
ago). I don't find the proposition encouraging of my offering my time for
nothing in an industry (a wider context than just NetBeans) too conceited
to pay for my time as a contributor who would work in a part-time capacity
and from a place of his own choosing.
Although I appear to gain from the voluntary contribution of others to this
extent, I want someone to start paying me for the skills I have honed over
nearly three decades in such a way as I can make a sustainable
contribution. I don't want to give my time freely within this industry
unless I first derive an income with the skills I have.
Sorry that I cannot contribute any more than usage data.
Owen.
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by "José J. Rodriguez" <jo...@cenpalab.cu>.
Neil C Smith wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 at 15:08 José J. Rodriguez
> <jose.rodriguez@cenpalab.cu <ma...@cenpalab.cu>> wrote:
>
> Anyway, it seems to me that "capitalism" has actually proven not to be a
> good role model for software development, see Windows bugs and backdoors
> vs. Linux security,
>
>
> I realise you put it in quotation marks, but can we please stop
> perpetuating this myth of the equivalence of capitalism and
> closed-source software. I mean, Linux is mostly developed by
> corporations, including Microsoft, right?!
>
Yes, that was what my quotation marks were trying to express, but you
put it much more clearly and directly in this and a previous post. And
just to be clear myself, I mean this as a compliment and with absolutely
zero sarcasm intended.
Joe1962
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 at 15:08 José J. Rodriguez <jo...@cenpalab.cu>
wrote:
> Anyway, it seems to me that "capitalism" has actually proven not to be a
> good role model for software development, see Windows bugs and backdoors
> vs. Linux security,
>
I realise you put it in quotation marks, but can we please stop
perpetuating this myth of the equivalence of capitalism and closed-source
software. I mean, Linux is mostly developed by corporations, including
Microsoft, right?!
NetBeans is an ASF project, it has to play by the rules here, and at the
same time we need to make sure it thrives here. But the only measures of
that success are what we decide them to be. So, constructive input to that
seems welcome, impossible suggestions or criticism bordering on trolling,
less so!
Aside - whenever anyone asks why I use open-source / Linux over Windows, my
stock response is always that I got fed up of paying for stuff that doesn't
work properly. Now I've got loads of other stuff that doesn't work
properly, but at least I don't feel ripped off for it! ;-)
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by "José J. Rodriguez" <jo...@cenpalab.cu>.
Ashton Hogan wrote:
> PS: I'm aware that I'm probably on the
> wrong mailing list right now
I don't think so, specially since you started off with this:
> I want NetBeans to stick around...
Joe1962
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
Many good points Joe. I want NetBeans to stick around, it's better for everyone if there are more options otherwise we're all forced to use "the monopoly" in the market. I think capitalism has worked great for Windows, look how many more software options you have compared to on Linux. Sure, they're mostly not open source and you have to pay for them but that's the price of having options and I think it's worth it because it keeps software competitive. PS: I'm aware that I'm probably on the wrong mailing list right now
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 15:08:37 GMT, José J. Rodriguez <jo...@cenpalab.cu> wrote:
Ashton Hogan wrote:
>
> <snip> ... look at your
> competitor, intellij, they're winning because they're embracing
> capitalism and prosperity. They use licenses to profit and it's WORKING!
> Simple as that. Follow the policy and die or embrace capitalism and
> stick around. Truth hurts.
>
I think it's best if we all agree to disagree, and leave it at that...
I started off in java programming with Eclipse, but didn't quite grasp
it's working philosophy. Found Netbeans after that and jumped ship, it
was way more intuitive for me and somehow easier to work with. A new
member of my programming team was using Idea and slowly, others let
themselves be persuaded to the "benefits"of this IDE. They made me try
it out (since they had switched 2 of our projects to it), and I really
did try to like it, giving it my undivided attention for about a month.
However, I also never got it's working philosophy and things that were
natural to me in Netbeans, weren't so much in Idea.
My point, after a somewhat convoluted historical explanation, is that
IMHO, Idea has the prettier eye candy which lures away the kind of
people that tend to jump to Windows 10 and say they like the interface.
Also, I guess Google's decision to switch the Android development setup
from Eclipse to Idea probably had the biggest impact on it's current
popularity. Eclipse, on the other hand, has a huge ecosystem that seems
to cater more to the hard-core programmers, so I see it as a more direct
"competitor" to our Netbeans.
And talking about enterprise use of a certain software, what that really
requires is mostly a good payed support system, not really a software
sales system.
Anyway, it seems to me that "capitalism" has actually proven not to be a
good role model for software development, see Windows bugs and backdoors
vs. Linux security, see Apache httpd, mysql (before and after
acquisition by Oracle), postgreSQL and lots more examples...
Just my 2 cents on the thread...
Joe1962
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by "José J. Rodriguez" <jo...@cenpalab.cu>.
Ashton Hogan wrote:
>
> <snip> ... look at your
> competitor, intellij, they're winning because they're embracing
> capitalism and prosperity. They use licenses to profit and it's WORKING!
> Simple as that. Follow the policy and die or embrace capitalism and
> stick around. Truth hurts.
>
I think it's best if we all agree to disagree, and leave it at that...
I started off in java programming with Eclipse, but didn't quite grasp
it's working philosophy. Found Netbeans after that and jumped ship, it
was way more intuitive for me and somehow easier to work with. A new
member of my programming team was using Idea and slowly, others let
themselves be persuaded to the "benefits"of this IDE. They made me try
it out (since they had switched 2 of our projects to it), and I really
did try to like it, giving it my undivided attention for about a month.
However, I also never got it's working philosophy and things that were
natural to me in Netbeans, weren't so much in Idea.
My point, after a somewhat convoluted historical explanation, is that
IMHO, Idea has the prettier eye candy which lures away the kind of
people that tend to jump to Windows 10 and say they like the interface.
Also, I guess Google's decision to switch the Android development setup
from Eclipse to Idea probably had the biggest impact on it's current
popularity. Eclipse, on the other hand, has a huge ecosystem that seems
to cater more to the hard-core programmers, so I see it as a more direct
"competitor" to our Netbeans.
And talking about enterprise use of a certain software, what that really
requires is mostly a good payed support system, not really a software
sales system.
Anyway, it seems to me that "capitalism" has actually proven not to be a
good role model for software development, see Windows bugs and backdoors
vs. Linux security, see Apache httpd, mysql (before and after
acquisition by Oracle), postgreSQL and lots more examples...
Just my 2 cents on the thread...
Joe1962
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
So, pitch in and get involved and NetBeans won't become dormant.
This is the end of this thread for me. :-)
Gj
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:09 PM, Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid>
wrote:
> Yes, I know, I work for these companies myself and I use a lot of apache
> dependencies. What I mean is that many of these GOOD projects die out not
> because they're useless but because they become dormant
>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 12:07:15 GMT, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Ashton Hogan
> <as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > ...I understand the Apache policy and I think it's really unfortunate.
> I've
> > seen so many apache projects die out over the years, probably due to this
> > policy...
>
> The Apache model is not for all projects but you might have missed *a
> few* Apache projects which have been successful for years and support
> multi-million dollar industries ;-)
>
> BTW https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-
> software-foundation-2018
> has more information on these things.
>
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
Yes, I know, I work for these companies myself and I use a lot of apache dependencies. What I mean is that many of these GOOD projects die out not because they're useless but because they become dormant
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 12:07:15 GMT, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Ashton Hogan
<as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
> ...I understand the Apache policy and I think it's really unfortunate. I've
> seen so many apache projects die out over the years, probably due to this
> policy...
The Apache model is not for all projects but you might have missed *a
few* Apache projects which have been successful for years and support
multi-million dollar industries ;-)
BTW https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-software-foundation-2018
has more information on these things.
-Bertrand
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Ashton,
OK, feel free to go ahead and start a new thread about setting up something
similar to tomitribe.com.
Starting that discussion would be a great contribution -- at some point
and, sure, why not start that discussion now, such an entity might be
useful.
However, for setting up that entity too, you will need to spend time. Why
not spend it where everyone else is focused on right now, in getting Apache
NetBeans released?
Thanks,
Gj
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid>
wrote:
> Thanks Bertrand. I don't really participate in too many mailing lists to
> be honest. Every time I do, it seems to end with me being too lazy to
> understand other peoples ideas so I just tend to turn them down...
>
> I understand the Apache policy and I think it's really unfortunate. I've
> seen so many apache projects die out over the years, probably due to this
> policy (I hope I didn't just kill any sacred cows with this)
>
> The problem I see with donations, in any form, is that people don't feel
> like their contribution will make a difference so they tend to not bother.
> Whereas with a license, for example, I know that EVERYONE is buying one so
> I feel like my money is going to a company that will grow and not just die
> out tomorrow
>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 11:35:15 GMT, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 12:12 PM, Ashton Hogan
> <as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > ...I've also tried begging for contributions, it got me nowhere, I
> eventually just settled
> >for paying for them instead which moved me forward way quicker... this is
> just my
> > personal experience...
>
> Paying people to contribute to Apache projects is a fantastic
> contribution, but that cannot go through the Apache Software
> Foundation as it's a basic principle that the Foundation *never* pays
> for writing software for our projects.
>
> What you can do is contract people to work on things that you find
> useful, keeping in mind that merging these contributions into Apache
> NetBeans is subject to approval of the NetBeans PPMC, like any other
> contribution.
>
> People have been running crowdfunding campaigns for their work on
> Apache projects, for example, and that's great as long as the ASF can
> stay totally out of it and see the results just as another
>
> contribution.
>
>
> The example disclaimer at
> https://community.apache.org/committers/funding-disclaimer.html
> <https://community.apache.org/committers/funding-disclaimer.html>should
> help explain that better.
>
> -Bertrand (incubation mentor for NetBeans)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:07 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Ashton Hogan
> <as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > ...I understand the Apache policy and I think it's really unfortunate.
> I've
> > seen so many apache projects die out over the years, probably due to this
> > policy...
>
> The Apache model is not for all projects but you might have missed *a
> few* Apache projects which have been successful for years and support
> multi-million dollar industries ;-)
>
> BTW https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-
> software-foundation-2018
> has more information on these things.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Ashton Hogan
<as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
> ...I understand the Apache policy and I think it's really unfortunate. I've
> seen so many apache projects die out over the years, probably due to this
> policy...
The Apache model is not for all projects but you might have missed *a
few* Apache projects which have been successful for years and support
multi-million dollar industries ;-)
BTW https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-software-foundation-2018
has more information on these things.
-Bertrand
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
Thanks Bertrand. I don't really participate in too many mailing lists to be honest. Every time I do, it seems to end with me being too lazy to understand other peoples ideas so I just tend to turn them down...
I understand the Apache policy and I think it's really unfortunate. I've seen so many apache projects die out over the years, probably due to this policy (I hope I didn't just kill any sacred cows with this)
The problem I see with donations, in any form, is that people don't feel like their contribution will make a difference so they tend to not bother. Whereas with a license, for example, I know that EVERYONE is buying one so I feel like my money is going to a company that will grow and not just die out tomorrow
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 11:35:15 GMT, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 12:12 PM, Ashton Hogan
<as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
> ...I've also tried begging for contributions, it got me nowhere, I eventually just settled
>for paying for them instead which moved me forward way quicker... this is just my
> personal experience...
Paying people to contribute to Apache projects is a fantastic
contribution, but that cannot go through the Apache Software
Foundation as it's a basic principle that the Foundation *never* pays
for writing software for our projects.
What you can do is contract people to work on things that you find
useful, keeping in mind that merging these contributions into Apache
NetBeans is subject to approval of the NetBeans PPMC, like any other
contribution.
People have been running crowdfunding campaigns for their work on
Apache projects, for example, and that's great as long as the ASF can
stay totally out of it and see the results just as another
contribution.
The example disclaimer at
https://community.apache.org/committers/funding-disclaimer.html should
help explain that better.
-Bertrand (incubation mentor for NetBeans)
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 12:12 PM, Ashton Hogan
<as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
> ...I've also tried begging for contributions, it got me nowhere, I eventually just settled
>for paying for them instead which moved me forward way quicker... this is just my
> personal experience...
Paying people to contribute to Apache projects is a fantastic
contribution, but that cannot go through the Apache Software
Foundation as it's a basic principle that the Foundation *never* pays
for writing software for our projects.
What you can do is contract people to work on things that you find
useful, keeping in mind that merging these contributions into Apache
NetBeans is subject to approval of the NetBeans PPMC, like any other
contribution.
People have been running crowdfunding campaigns for their work on
Apache projects, for example, and that's great as long as the ASF can
stay totally out of it and see the results just as another
contribution.
The example disclaimer at
https://community.apache.org/committers/funding-disclaimer.html should
help explain that better.
-Bertrand (incubation mentor for NetBeans)
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
I've also tried begging for contributions, it got me nowhere, I eventually just settled for paying for them instead which moved me forward way quicker... this is just my personal experience, I can't speak for everyone and I'm humbled by the development of the IDE that is NetBeans.
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:57:31 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
Keep up your enthusiasm 😀 If you have time, contribute, if not then you will need to wait patiently for the first version.
I would go a bit further than that and say that if, after Apache NetBeans is released, and you find all kinds of issues, and you have been aware that you could have participated in NetCAT (really, not more than one or two hours a week is all the time needed to be spent) -- then you're likely to be told [ at least by me! :-) ] that the issues that you find will not receive a very high priority.
Gj
On 7 Mar 2018 10:48, "Ashton Hogan" <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
Maybe you're right.
I must say, based on my research, I truly believed commercial activity to be the answer to revive NetBeans. Capitalism always outperforms socialism in prosperity so why wouldn't capital work for NetBeans?
Sorry to hear that this won't work for NetBeans, I tried to help!
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:44:09 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail. com> wrote:
All the time you have now spent in this discussion, which is clearly not going to end with anyone spending the time to take your money, you could have spent on signing up to the NetCAT process and then following step by step instructions -- that don't require any special knowledge -- to help prepare Apache NetBeans for its first official release.
Gj
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 11:42 AM, Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
True Jean-Michel, I understand NetBeans has a different business structure to competitors as well though so it's not as easy. So you think it's impossible?
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:38:34 GMT, <co...@jm-bea.net> wrote:
Hi,
Sometimes a project need time more than money.
And receiving money takes time! (Somebody needs to manage the money + any legal around it, somebody need to hire the testers and managed them, etc...)
Jean-Michel
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018, at 10:32, Ashton Hogan wrote:
What if my time is more productive elsewhere? I think there's an element of assigning the right people to the right jobs. I have more money than time at the moment, that's all I can offer.
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 09:57:25 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail. com> wrote:
Nope. That excuse does not compute. :-) When you participate in NetCAT, you get step by step instructions for what to test, how, and where.
We don’t want your money, we want your time.
Gj
On Wednesday, March 7, 2018, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com> wrote:
I would love to but I just don't have the necessary knowledge and skills to do a good job at it. If we had a piggy bank, it would come in handy to pay for skills when contributors are running low though, surely?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
From: Geertjan Wielenga
To: users@netbeans.incubator. apache.org
CC:
Well, for the moment, the very best way to contribute back to Apache NetBeans is to be involved here:
https://cwiki.apache.org/ confluence/display/NETBEANS/ NetCAT
In fact, that's more useful at this stage than money. :-)
Gj
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:46 AM, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com> wrote:
It's available https://www.name.com/domain/se arch/netbeansfield.com
Sent from my Huawei Mobile
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
From: John Muczynski
To: ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
CC: users@netbeans.incubator.apach e.org,geertjan.wielenga@google mail.com
Maybe a NetBeans field -- BeanField -- as in a field where beans are grown.
--
Johnny Muczynski
734-262-2045
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail. com> wrote:
Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not be able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the foundation as a whole:
http://www.apache.org/foundati on/sponsorship.html
However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support and so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe or something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
Gj
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
Hi all
Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support its longevity?
Thanks
Ashton
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Keep up your enthusiasm 😀 If you have time, contribute, if not then you
> will need to wait patiently for the first version.
>
I would go a bit further than that and say that if, after Apache NetBeans
is released, and you find all kinds of issues, and you have been aware that
you could have participated in NetCAT (really, not more than one or two
hours a week is all the time needed to be spent) -- then you're likely to
be told [ at least by me! :-) ] that the issues that you find will not
receive a very high priority.
Gj
>
> On 7 Mar 2018 10:48, "Ashton Hogan" <as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Maybe you're right.
>>
>> I must say, based on my research, I truly believed commercial activity
>> to be the answer to revive NetBeans. Capitalism always outperforms
>> socialism in prosperity so why wouldn't capital work for NetBeans?
>>
>> Sorry to hear that this won't work for NetBeans, I tried to help!
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:44:09 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <
>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> All the time you have now spent in this discussion, which is clearly not
>> going to end with anyone spending the time to take your money, you could
>> have spent on signing up to the NetCAT process and then following step by
>> step instructions -- that don't require any special knowledge -- to help
>> prepare Apache NetBeans for its first official release.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 11:42 AM, Ashton Hogan <
>> ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> True Jean-Michel, I understand NetBeans has a different business
>> structure to competitors as well though so it's not as easy. So you think
>> it's impossible?
>>
>> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:38:34 GMT, <co...@jm-bea.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Sometimes a project need time more than money.
>> And receiving money takes time! (Somebody needs to manage the money + any
>> legal around it, somebody need to hire the testers and managed them, etc...)
>>
>> Jean-Michel
>>
>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018, at 10:32, Ashton Hogan wrote:
>>
>>
>> What if my time is more productive elsewhere? I think there's an element
>> of assigning the right people to the right jobs. I have more money than
>> time at the moment, that's all I can offer.
>>
>> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 09:57:25 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.
>> com <ge...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Nope. That excuse does not compute. :-) When you participate in NetCAT,
>> you get step by step instructions for what to test, how, and where.
>>
>> We don’t want your money, we want your time.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 7, 2018, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I would love to but I just don't have the necessary knowledge and skills
>> to do a good job at it. If we had a piggy bank, it would come in handy to
>> pay for skills when contributors are running low though, surely?
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
>> From: Geertjan Wielenga
>> To: users@netbeans.incubator. apache.org
>> <us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
>> CC:
>>
>>
>> Well, for the moment, the very best way to contribute back to Apache
>> NetBeans is to be involved here:
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/ confluence/display/NETBEANS/ NetCAT
>> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT>
>>
>> In fact, that's more useful at this stage than money. :-)
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:46 AM, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <
>> ashtonhogan@ymail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It's available https://www.name.com/domain/se arch/netbeansfield.com
>> <https://www.name.com/domain/search/netbeansfield.com>
>>
>> Sent from my Huawei Mobile
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
>> From: John Muczynski
>> To: ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
>> CC: users@netbeans.incubator.apach e.org
>> <us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>,geertjan.wielenga@google mail.com
>> <ge...@googlemail.com>
>>
>>
>> Maybe a NetBeans field -- BeanField -- as in a field where beans are
>> grown.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Johnny Muczynski
>> 734-262-2045
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Ashton Hogan
>> <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
>>
>>
>> I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
>>
>> On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.
>> com <ge...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not be
>> able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the
>> foundation as a whole:
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/foundati on/sponsorship.html
>> <http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html>
>>
>> However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up
>> together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (
>> tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support and
>> so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe or
>> something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs
>> on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
>>
>> Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <
>> ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've
>> noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and
>> wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell
>> licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel
>> guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a
>> dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the
>> opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support
>> its longevity?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Ashton
>>
>>
>>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com>.
Ashton
What i think people are saying is, they appreciate your offer of helping
financially but at this stage, in the migration to Apache, the focus is
getting the first release out for which the netcat process is key.
Once netbeans is more established in Apache i am sure suggestions like this
could be looked at to explorer if they could work or not.
Keep up your enthusiasm 😀 If you have time, contribute, if not then you
will need to wait patiently for the first version.
On 7 Mar 2018 10:48, "Ashton Hogan" <as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Maybe you're right.
>
> I must say, based on my research, I truly believed commercial activity to
> be the answer to revive NetBeans. Capitalism always outperforms socialism
> in prosperity so why wouldn't capital work for NetBeans?
>
> Sorry to hear that this won't work for NetBeans, I tried to help!
>
>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:44:09 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
> All the time you have now spent in this discussion, which is clearly not
> going to end with anyone spending the time to take your money, you could
> have spent on signing up to the NetCAT process and then following step by
> step instructions -- that don't require any special knowledge -- to help
> prepare Apache NetBeans for its first official release.
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 11:42 AM, Ashton Hogan <
> ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> True Jean-Michel, I understand NetBeans has a different business structure
> to competitors as well though so it's not as easy. So you think it's
> impossible?
>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:38:34 GMT, <co...@jm-bea.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Sometimes a project need time more than money.
> And receiving money takes time! (Somebody needs to manage the money + any
> legal around it, somebody need to hire the testers and managed them, etc...)
>
> Jean-Michel
>
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018, at 10:32, Ashton Hogan wrote:
>
>
> What if my time is more productive elsewhere? I think there's an element
> of assigning the right people to the right jobs. I have more money than
> time at the moment, that's all I can offer.
>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 09:57:25 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.
> com <ge...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Nope. That excuse does not compute. :-) When you participate in NetCAT,
> you get step by step instructions for what to test, how, and where.
>
> We don’t want your money, we want your time.
>
> Gj
>
> On Wednesday, March 7, 2018, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I would love to but I just don't have the necessary knowledge and skills
> to do a good job at it. If we had a piggy bank, it would come in handy to
> pay for skills when contributors are running low though, surely?
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
> From: Geertjan Wielenga
> To: users@netbeans.incubator. apache.org
> <us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
> CC:
>
>
> Well, for the moment, the very best way to contribute back to Apache
> NetBeans is to be involved here:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/ confluence/display/NETBEANS/ NetCAT
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT>
>
> In fact, that's more useful at this stage than money. :-)
>
> Gj
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:46 AM, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <
> ashtonhogan@ymail.com> wrote:
>
> It's available https://www.name.com/domain/se arch/netbeansfield.com
> <https://www.name.com/domain/search/netbeansfield.com>
>
> Sent from my Huawei Mobile
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
> From: John Muczynski
> To: ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
> CC: users@netbeans.incubator.apach e.org
> <us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>,geertjan.wielenga@google mail.com
> <ge...@googlemail.com>
>
>
> Maybe a NetBeans field -- BeanField -- as in a field where beans are grown.
>
>
> --
> Johnny Muczynski
> 734-262-2045
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
> > wrote:
>
>
> I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
>
> On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.
> com <ge...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not be
> able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the
> foundation as a whole:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundati on/sponsorship.html
> <http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html>
>
> However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up
> together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (
> tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support and
> so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe or
> something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs
> on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
>
> Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
>
> Gj
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <
> ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
>
>
> Hi all
>
> Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've
> noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and
> wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell
> licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel
> guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a
> dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the
> opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support
> its longevity?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ashton
>
>
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
Hi Eirik
As mentioned earlier, I wouldn't do this because it's a form of donation and donations don't scale because unlike a license, no one is forced to pay up. Meaning that my contribution will feel like it has no impact and ultimately a waste of money. A license is a collective agreement amongst all users in the community saying "we will all help grow this product". This gives users much more peace of mind, knowing their contributions are going towards a growing product, not just beer money for friday.
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 15:17:05 GMT, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
Hi, Ashton.
If you'd like to contribute money to support NetBeans development, one way might be to purchase the time of an individual NetBeans developer or contracting firm. Maybe send an email on the dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org mailing list saying "I am willing to pay $X to have issue number Y fixed". Or maybe something less specific, like "I am willing to pay $X to support improvements in an area of the developer's choice".
Keep in mind that the fully loaded cost of a software engineer with enough domain-specific skills to work on the NetBeans codebase is somewhere between $100-$300/hour, depending on the developer's location.
-- Eirik
From: Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>
Date: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 9:04 AM
To: "users@netbeans.incubator.apache.org" <us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
In theory yes but in practice as soon as someone comes along and uses a license, they grow and apache dies. Who wants to do business with dying dependencies? Answer: NO ONE
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 13:44:47 GMT, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> ...That's what Apache NetBeans is all about,
> providing software development features to serve those who want to make use
> of them...
And that use might include making money with NetBeans - consulting,
training, selling specific plugins, that's all fine with the Apache
License.
A few years ago, someone sold the source code of httpd as a printed
book, tagged as "the ultimate reference to httpd".
Not very useful IMO but ok w.r.t the Apache project, provided
trademarks are respected, the provenance of the works is clear and
appropriate credit is given. That's an extreme case of "embracing
capitalism" I guess, I hope people find better ways to make money from
our projects, but the ASF is basically friendly to business as long as
it happens elsewhere - so that we can stay (fiercely) independent.
-Bertrand
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
Hi, Ashton.
If you'd like to contribute money to support NetBeans development, one way might be to purchase the time of an individual NetBeans developer or contracting firm. Maybe send an email on the dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org mailing list saying "I am willing to pay $X to have issue number Y fixed". Or maybe something less specific, like "I am willing to pay $X to support improvements in an area of the developer's choice".
Keep in mind that the fully loaded cost of a software engineer with enough domain-specific skills to work on the NetBeans codebase is somewhere between $100-$300/hour, depending on the developer's location.
-- Eirik
From: Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>>
Date: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 9:04 AM
To: "users@netbeans.incubator.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>" <us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>>, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>>
Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
In theory yes but in practice as soon as someone comes along and uses a license, they grow and apache dies. Who wants to do business with dying dependencies? Answer: NO ONE
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 13:44:47 GMT, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
> ...That's what Apache NetBeans is all about,
> providing software development features to serve those who want to make use
> of them...
And that use might include making money with NetBeans - consulting,
training, selling specific plugins, that's all fine with the Apache
License.
A few years ago, someone sold the source code of httpd as a printed
book, tagged as "the ultimate reference to httpd".
Not very useful IMO but ok w.r.t the Apache project, provided
trademarks are respected, the provenance of the works is clear and
appropriate credit is given. That's an extreme case of "embracing
capitalism" I guess, I hope people find better ways to make money from
our projects, but the ASF is basically friendly to business as long as
it happens elsewhere - so that we can stay (fiercely) independent.
-Bertrand
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
In theory yes but in practice as soon as someone comes along and uses a license, they grow and apache dies. Who wants to do business with dying dependencies? Answer: NO ONE
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 13:44:47 GMT, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> ...That's what Apache NetBeans is all about,
> providing software development features to serve those who want to make use
> of them...
And that use might include making money with NetBeans - consulting,
training, selling specific plugins, that's all fine with the Apache
License.
A few years ago, someone sold the source code of httpd as a printed
book, tagged as "the ultimate reference to httpd".
Not very useful IMO but ok w.r.t the Apache project, provided
trademarks are respected, the provenance of the works is clear and
appropriate credit is given. That's an extreme case of "embracing
capitalism" I guess, I hope people find better ways to make money from
our projects, but the ASF is basically friendly to business as long as
it happens elsewhere - so that we can stay (fiercely) independent.
-Bertrand
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> ...That's what Apache NetBeans is all about,
> providing software development features to serve those who want to make use
> of them...
And that use might include making money with NetBeans - consulting,
training, selling specific plugins, that's all fine with the Apache
License.
A few years ago, someone sold the source code of httpd as a printed
book, tagged as "the ultimate reference to httpd".
Not very useful IMO but ok w.r.t the Apache project, provided
trademarks are respected, the provenance of the works is clear and
appropriate credit is given. That's an extreme case of "embracing
capitalism" I guess, I hope people find better ways to make money from
our projects, but the ASF is basically friendly to business as long as
it happens elsewhere - so that we can stay (fiercely) independent.
-Bertrand
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Just note that Apache projects do not compete with anyone or anything. They
exist to serve a community. That's what Apache NetBeans is all about,
providing software development features to serve those who want to make use
of them. As an Apache project we are explicitly not in competition with
anything out there.
Gj
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:30 PM, Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid>
wrote:
>
> BountySource failed for a reason, if I told you the reason, you'd just
> argue with me...
>
> I think you might be over-complicating things a bit, look at your
> competitor, intellij, they're winning because they're embracing capitalism
> and prosperity. They use licenses to profit and it's WORKING! Simple as
> that. Follow the policy and die or embrace capitalism and stick around.
> Truth hurts.
>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 13:21:58 GMT, Neil C Smith <
> neilcsmith@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 at 13:05 Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> Bountysource is closing down because it was a failed business, it's been
> bought out by CanYa
>
>
> My reading of that is that it *was* closing down as a (semi) failed
> business, but that CanYa are now investing in it. I was slightly surprised
> seeing the state of their website before posting, having looked a few
> months ago.
>
> Anyway, the question was more about that kind of developer funding -
> people posting bounties against specific bugs / feature requests. I'm just
> wondering how much integration - pointing people at a global list, direct
> links in issue queues, etc. can be done without falling foul of ASF
> policies. Not that it's a model we'd necessarily want to encourage anyway.
>
> Doesn't look like Bountysource has been used much by Apache projects,
> although a few linked to Cassandra by the look of it.
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> Neil
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
BountySource failed for a reason, if I told you the reason, you'd just argue with me...
I think you might be over-complicating things a bit, look at your competitor, intellij, they're winning because they're embracing capitalism and prosperity. They use licenses to profit and it's WORKING! Simple as that. Follow the policy and die or embrace capitalism and stick around. Truth hurts.
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 13:21:58 GMT, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 at 13:05 Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
Bountysource is closing down because it was a failed business, it's been bought out by CanYa
My reading of that is that it *was* closing down as a (semi) failed business, but that CanYa are now investing in it. I was slightly surprised seeing the state of their website before posting, having looked a few months ago.
Anyway, the question was more about that kind of developer funding - people posting bounties against specific bugs / feature requests. I'm just wondering how much integration - pointing people at a global list, direct links in issue queues, etc. can be done without falling foul of ASF policies. Not that it's a model we'd necessarily want to encourage anyway.
Doesn't look like Bountysource has been used much by Apache projects, although a few linked to Cassandra by the look of it.
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C SmithArtist & Technologistwww.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 at 13:05 Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid>
wrote:
> Bountysource is closing down because it was a failed business, it's been
> bought out by CanYa
>
My reading of that is that it *was* closing down as a (semi) failed
business, but that CanYa are now investing in it. I was slightly surprised
seeing the state of their website before posting, having looked a few
months ago.
Anyway, the question was more about that kind of developer funding - people
posting bounties against specific bugs / feature requests. I'm just
wondering how much integration - pointing people at a global list, direct
links in issue queues, etc. can be done without falling foul of ASF
policies. Not that it's a model we'd necessarily want to encourage anyway.
Doesn't look like Bountysource has been used much by Apache projects,
although a few linked to Cassandra by the look of it.
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
Bountysource is closing down because it was a failed business, it's been bought out by CanYa
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 13:01:20 GMT, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...Are there any thoughts / info about using something like
> Bountysource?...
I don't know much about Bountysource but from the ASF's side, as long
as the ASF has nothing to do with the money, contributions go through
the usual PMC vetting, things happen on your dev list and disclaimers
similar to the one I linked to in this thread are in place that can
work.
-Bertrand
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...Are there any thoughts / info about using something like
> Bountysource?...
I don't know much about Bountysource but from the ASF's side, as long
as the ASF has nothing to do with the money, contributions go through
the usual PMC vetting, things happen on your dev list and disclaimers
similar to the one I linked to in this thread are in place that can
work.
-Bertrand
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Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 at 10:48 Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid>
wrote:
> I must say, based on my research, I truly believed commercial activity to
> be the answer to revive NetBeans. Capitalism always outperforms socialism
> in prosperity so why wouldn't capital work for NetBeans?
>
Nothing much to add to what others have said except please can we not stoop
to this FLOSS == socialism rubbish. It shows a fundamental, and ultimately
damaging, misunderstanding of FLOSS, socialism and capitalism.
Other than that, time is money as they say - thanks Bertrand for the info
on funding developer time - was going to ask for just that from an Apache
perspective. Are there any thoughts / info about using something like
Bountysource?
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Nope. No one has said that there will not be commercial activity around
NetBeans. In fact, very explicitly it's been pointed out that such a thing
may happen -- and in fact there's even the start of commercial support page
on netbeans.apache.org:
https://netbeans.apache.org/help/commercial-support.html
So, very very very clearly no one has said 'this won't work for NetBeans'.
The only point is that, right now, at this point in the process, the best
way to spend your money is in the form of time.
Gj
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com> wrote:
> Maybe you're right.
>
> I must say, based on my research, I truly believed commercial activity to
> be the answer to revive NetBeans. Capitalism always outperforms socialism
> in prosperity so why wouldn't capital work for NetBeans?
>
> Sorry to hear that this won't work for NetBeans, I tried to help!
>
>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:44:09 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
> All the time you have now spent in this discussion, which is clearly not
> going to end with anyone spending the time to take your money, you could
> have spent on signing up to the NetCAT process and then following step by
> step instructions -- that don't require any special knowledge -- to help
> prepare Apache NetBeans for its first official release.
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 11:42 AM, Ashton Hogan <
> ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> True Jean-Michel, I understand NetBeans has a different business structure
> to competitors as well though so it's not as easy. So you think it's
> impossible?
>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:38:34 GMT, <co...@jm-bea.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Sometimes a project need time more than money.
> And receiving money takes time! (Somebody needs to manage the money + any
> legal around it, somebody need to hire the testers and managed them, etc...)
>
> Jean-Michel
>
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018, at 10:32, Ashton Hogan wrote:
>
>
> What if my time is more productive elsewhere? I think there's an element
> of assigning the right people to the right jobs. I have more money than
> time at the moment, that's all I can offer.
>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 09:57:25 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.
> com <ge...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Nope. That excuse does not compute. :-) When you participate in NetCAT,
> you get step by step instructions for what to test, how, and where.
>
> We don’t want your money, we want your time.
>
> Gj
>
> On Wednesday, March 7, 2018, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I would love to but I just don't have the necessary knowledge and skills
> to do a good job at it. If we had a piggy bank, it would come in handy to
> pay for skills when contributors are running low though, surely?
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
> From: Geertjan Wielenga
> To: users@netbeans.incubator. apache.org
> <us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
> CC:
>
>
> Well, for the moment, the very best way to contribute back to Apache
> NetBeans is to be involved here:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/ confluence/display/NETBEANS/ NetCAT
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT>
>
> In fact, that's more useful at this stage than money. :-)
>
> Gj
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:46 AM, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <
> ashtonhogan@ymail.com> wrote:
>
> It's available https://www.name.com/domain/se arch/netbeansfield.com
> <https://www.name.com/domain/search/netbeansfield.com>
>
> Sent from my Huawei Mobile
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
> From: John Muczynski
> To: ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
> CC: users@netbeans.incubator.apach e.org
> <us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>,geertjan.wielenga@google mail.com
> <ge...@googlemail.com>
>
>
> Maybe a NetBeans field -- BeanField -- as in a field where beans are grown.
>
>
> --
> Johnny Muczynski
> 734-262-2045
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
> > wrote:
>
>
> I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
>
> On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.
> com <ge...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not be
> able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the
> foundation as a whole:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundati on/sponsorship.html
> <http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html>
>
> However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up
> together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (
> tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support and
> so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe or
> something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs
> on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
>
> Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
>
> Gj
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <
> ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
>
>
> Hi all
>
> Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've
> noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and
> wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell
> licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel
> guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a
> dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the
> opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support
> its longevity?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ashton
>
>
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
Maybe you're right.
I must say, based on my research, I truly believed commercial activity to be the answer to revive NetBeans. Capitalism always outperforms socialism in prosperity so why wouldn't capital work for NetBeans?
Sorry to hear that this won't work for NetBeans, I tried to help!
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:44:09 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
All the time you have now spent in this discussion, which is clearly not going to end with anyone spending the time to take your money, you could have spent on signing up to the NetCAT process and then following step by step instructions -- that don't require any special knowledge -- to help prepare Apache NetBeans for its first official release.
Gj
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 11:42 AM, Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
True Jean-Michel, I understand NetBeans has a different business structure to competitors as well though so it's not as easy. So you think it's impossible?
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:38:34 GMT, <co...@jm-bea.net> wrote:
Hi,
Sometimes a project need time more than money.
And receiving money takes time! (Somebody needs to manage the money + any legal around it, somebody need to hire the testers and managed them, etc...)
Jean-Michel
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018, at 10:32, Ashton Hogan wrote:
What if my time is more productive elsewhere? I think there's an element of assigning the right people to the right jobs. I have more money than time at the moment, that's all I can offer.
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 09:57:25 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail. com> wrote:
Nope. That excuse does not compute. :-) When you participate in NetCAT, you get step by step instructions for what to test, how, and where.
We don’t want your money, we want your time.
Gj
On Wednesday, March 7, 2018, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com> wrote:
I would love to but I just don't have the necessary knowledge and skills to do a good job at it. If we had a piggy bank, it would come in handy to pay for skills when contributors are running low though, surely?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
From: Geertjan Wielenga
To: users@netbeans.incubator. apache.org
CC:
Well, for the moment, the very best way to contribute back to Apache NetBeans is to be involved here:
https://cwiki.apache.org/ confluence/display/NETBEANS/ NetCAT
In fact, that's more useful at this stage than money. :-)
Gj
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:46 AM, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com> wrote:
It's available https://www.name.com/domain/se arch/netbeansfield.com
Sent from my Huawei Mobile
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
From: John Muczynski
To: ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
CC: users@netbeans.incubator.apach e.org,geertjan.wielenga@google mail.com
Maybe a NetBeans field -- BeanField -- as in a field where beans are grown.
--
Johnny Muczynski
734-262-2045
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail. com> wrote:
Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not be able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the foundation as a whole:
http://www.apache.org/foundati on/sponsorship.html
However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support and so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe or something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
Gj
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
Hi all
Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support its longevity?
Thanks
Ashton
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
All the time you have now spent in this discussion, which is clearly not
going to end with anyone spending the time to take your money, you could
have spent on signing up to the NetCAT process and then following step by
step instructions -- that don't require any special knowledge -- to help
prepare Apache NetBeans for its first official release.
Gj
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 11:42 AM, Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
> wrote:
> True Jean-Michel, I understand NetBeans has a different business structure
> to competitors as well though so it's not as easy. So you think it's
> impossible?
>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:38:34 GMT, <co...@jm-bea.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Sometimes a project need time more than money.
> And receiving money takes time! (Somebody needs to manage the money + any
> legal around it, somebody need to hire the testers and managed them, etc...)
>
> Jean-Michel
>
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018, at 10:32, Ashton Hogan wrote:
>
>
> What if my time is more productive elsewhere? I think there's an element
> of assigning the right people to the right jobs. I have more money than
> time at the moment, that's all I can offer.
>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 09:57:25 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Nope. That excuse does not compute. :-) When you participate in NetCAT,
> you get step by step instructions for what to test, how, and where.
>
> We don’t want your money, we want your time.
>
> Gj
>
> On Wednesday, March 7, 2018, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I would love to but I just don't have the necessary knowledge and skills
> to do a good job at it. If we had a piggy bank, it would come in handy to
> pay for skills when contributors are running low though, surely?
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
> From: Geertjan Wielenga
> To: users@netbeans.incubator. apache.org
> <us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>
> CC:
>
>
> Well, for the moment, the very best way to contribute back to Apache
> NetBeans is to be involved here:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/ confluence/display/NETBEANS/ NetCAT
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT>
>
> In fact, that's more useful at this stage than money. :-)
>
> Gj
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:46 AM, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <
> ashtonhogan@ymail.com> wrote:
>
> It's available https://www.name.com/domain/se arch/netbeansfield.com
> <https://www.name.com/domain/search/netbeansfield.com>
>
> Sent from my Huawei Mobile
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
> From: John Muczynski
> To: ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
> CC: users@netbeans.incubator.apach e.org
> <us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org>,geertjan.wielenga@google mail.com
> <ge...@googlemail.com>
>
>
> Maybe a NetBeans field -- BeanField -- as in a field where beans are grown.
>
>
> --
> Johnny Muczynski
> 734-262-2045
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
> > wrote:
>
>
> I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
>
> On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.
> com <ge...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not be
> able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the
> foundation as a whole:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundati on/sponsorship.html
> <http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html>
>
> However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up
> together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (
> tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support and
> so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe or
> something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs
> on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
>
> Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
>
> Gj
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <
> ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
>
>
> Hi all
>
> Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've
> noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and
> wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell
> licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel
> guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a
> dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the
> opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support
> its longevity?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ashton
>
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
True Jean-Michel, I understand NetBeans has a different business structure to competitors as well though so it's not as easy. So you think it's impossible?
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 10:38:34 GMT, <co...@jm-bea.net> wrote:
Hi,
Sometimes a project need time more than money.
And receiving money takes time! (Somebody needs to manage the money + any legal around it, somebody need to hire the testers and managed them, etc...)
Jean-Michel
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018, at 10:32, Ashton Hogan wrote:
What if my time is more productive elsewhere? I think there's an element of assigning the right people to the right jobs. I have more money than time at the moment, that's all I can offer.
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 09:57:25 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
Nope. That excuse does not compute. :-) When you participate in NetCAT, you get step by step instructions for what to test, how, and where.
We don’t want your money, we want your time.
Gj
On Wednesday, March 7, 2018, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com> wrote:
I would love to but I just don't have the necessary knowledge and skills to do a good job at it. If we had a piggy bank, it would come in handy to pay for skills when contributors are running low though, surely?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
From: Geertjan Wielenga
To: users@netbeans.incubator. apache.org
CC:
Well, for the moment, the very best way to contribute back to Apache NetBeans is to be involved here:
https://cwiki.apache.org/ confluence/display/NETBEANS/ NetCAT
In fact, that's more useful at this stage than money. :-)
Gj
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:46 AM, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com> wrote:
It's available https://www.name.com/domain/se arch/netbeansfield.com
Sent from my Huawei Mobile
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
From: John Muczynski
To: ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
CC: users@netbeans.incubator.apach e.org,geertjan.wielenga@google mail.com
Maybe a NetBeans field -- BeanField -- as in a field where beans are grown.
--
Johnny Muczynski
734-262-2045
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail. com> wrote:
Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not be able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the foundation as a whole:
http://www.apache.org/foundati on/sponsorship.html
However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support and so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe or something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
Gj
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
Hi all
Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support its longevity?
Thanks
Ashton
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by co...@jm-bea.net.
Hi,
Sometimes a project need time more than money.
And receiving money takes time! (Somebody needs to manage the money +
any legal around it, somebody need to hire the testers and managed
them, etc...)
Jean-Michel
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018, at 10:32, Ashton Hogan wrote:
>
> What if my time is more productive elsewhere? I think there's an
> element of assigning the right people to the right jobs. I have more
> money than time at the moment, that's all I can offer.>
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 09:57:25 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:>
>
> Nope. That excuse does not compute. :-) When you participate in
> NetCAT, you get step by step instructions for what to test, how,
> and where.>
> We don’t want your money, we want your time.
>
> Gj
>
> On Wednesday, March 7, 2018, ashtonhogan@ymail.com
> <as...@ymail.com> wrote:>> I would love to but I just don't have the necessary knowledge and
>> skills to do a good job at it. If we had a piggy bank, it would come
>> in handy to pay for skills when contributors are running low though,
>> surely?>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
>> From: Geertjan Wielenga __
>> To: users@netbeans.incubator. apache.org[1]
>> CC:
>>
>>
>>> Well, for the moment, the very best way to contribute back to Apache
>>> NetBeans is to be involved here:>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/ confluence/display/NETBEANS/ NetCAT[2]
>>>
>>> In fact, that's more useful at this stage than money. :-)
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:46 AM, ashtonhogan@ymail.com
>>> <as...@ymail.com> wrote:>>>> It's available https://www.name.com/domain/se
>>>> arch/netbeansfield.com[3]>>>>
>>>> Sent from my Huawei Mobile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
>>>> From: John Muczynski __
>>>> To: ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
>>>> CC: users@netbeans.incubator.apach
>>>> e.org[4],geertjan.wielenga@google mail.com[5]>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe a NetBeans field -- BeanField -- as in a field where beans
>>>>> are grown.>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Johnny Muczynski
>>>>> 734-262-2045
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Ashton Hogan
>>>>> <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga
>>>>>> <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail. com[6]> wrote:>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans
>>>>>> will not be able to earn money directly -- all money coming into
>>>>>> Apache goes to the foundation as a whole:>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.apache.org/foundati on/sponsorship.html[7]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set
>>>>>> up together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache
>>>>>> TomEE (tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that
>>>>>> provides support and so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we
>>>>>> could have a NetBeans Tribe or something like that, which could
>>>>>> offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs on demand or something
>>>>>> like that, in exchange for money.>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gj
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan
>>>>>> <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately
>>>>>>> I've noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on
>>>>>>> job specs and wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick.
>>>>>>> Turns out they sell licenses as well as offering a free version.
>>>>>>> I, myself, as a user feel guilty benefitting as much as I do
>>>>>>> from NetBeans and never having to pay a dime for it, even though
>>>>>>> I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the opportunity.
>>>>>>> Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support
>>>>>>> its longevity?>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashton
Links:
1. mailto:users@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
2. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT
3. https://www.name.com/domain/search/netbeansfield.com
4. mailto:users@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
5. mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com
6. mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com
7. http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
What if my time is more productive elsewhere? I think there's an element of assigning the right people to the right jobs. I have more money than time at the moment, that's all I can offer.
On Wednesday, 7 March 2018, 09:57:25 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
Nope. That excuse does not compute. :-) When you participate in NetCAT, you get step by step instructions for what to test, how, and where.
We don’t want your money, we want your time.
Gj
On Wednesday, March 7, 2018, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com> wrote:
I would love to but I just don't have the necessary knowledge and skills to do a good job at it. If we had a piggy bank, it would come in handy to pay for skills when contributors are running low though, surely?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
From: Geertjan Wielenga
To: users@netbeans.incubator. apache.org
CC:
Well, for the moment, the very best way to contribute back to Apache NetBeans is to be involved here:
https://cwiki.apache.org/ confluence/display/NETBEANS/ NetCAT
In fact, that's more useful at this stage than money. :-)
Gj
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:46 AM, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com> wrote:
It's available https://www.name.com/domain/se arch/netbeansfield.com
Sent from my Huawei Mobile
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
From: John Muczynski
To: ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
CC: users@netbeans.incubator.apach e.org,geertjan.wielenga@google mail.com
Maybe a NetBeans field -- BeanField -- as in a field where beans are grown.
--Johnny Muczynski
734-262-2045
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail. com> wrote:
Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not be able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the foundation as a whole:
http://www.apache.org/foundati on/sponsorship.html
However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support and so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe or something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
Gj
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid > wrote:
Hi all
Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support its longevity?
Thanks
Ashton
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Nope. That excuse does not compute. :-) When you participate in NetCAT, you
get step by step instructions for what to test, how, and where.
We don’t want your money, we want your time.
Gj
On Wednesday, March 7, 2018, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <as...@ymail.com>
wrote:
> I would love to but I just don't have the necessary knowledge and skills
> to do a good job at it. If we had a piggy bank, it would come in handy to
> pay for skills when contributors are running low though, surely?
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
> From: Geertjan Wielenga
> To: users@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> CC:
>
>
> Well, for the moment, the very best way to contribute back to Apache
> NetBeans is to be involved here:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT
>
> In fact, that's more useful at this stage than money. :-)
>
> Gj
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:46 AM, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <
> ashtonhogan@ymail.com> wrote:
>
>> It's available https://www.name.com/domain/search/netbeansfield.com
>>
>> Sent from my Huawei Mobile
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
>> From: John Muczynski
>> To: ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
>> CC: users@netbeans.incubator.apache.org,geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com
>>
>>
>> Maybe a NetBeans field -- BeanField -- as in a field where beans are
>> grown.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Johnny Muczynski
>> 734-262-2045 <(734)%20262-2045>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Ashton Hogan
>> <as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <
>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not
>>> be able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the
>>> foundation as a whole:
>>>
>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html
>>>
>>> However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up
>>> together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (
>>> tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support
>>> and so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe
>>> or something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix
>>> bugs on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
>>>
>>> Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <
>>> ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've
>>> noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and
>>> wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell
>>> licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel
>>> guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a
>>> dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the
>>> opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support
>>> its longevity?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Ashton
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Well, for the moment, the very best way to contribute back to Apache
NetBeans is to be involved here:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT
In fact, that's more useful at this stage than money. :-)
Gj
On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:46 AM, ashtonhogan@ymail.com <ashtonhogan@ymail.com
> wrote:
> It's available https://www.name.com/domain/search/netbeansfield.com
>
> Sent from my Huawei Mobile
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Long Live NetBeans!
> From: John Muczynski
> To: ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid
> CC: users@netbeans.incubator.apache.org,geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com
>
>
> Maybe a NetBeans field -- BeanField -- as in a field where beans are grown.
>
>
> --
> Johnny Muczynski
> 734-262-2045 <(734)%20262-2045>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
>>
>> On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <
>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not be
>> able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the
>> foundation as a whole:
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html
>>
>> However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up
>> together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (
>> tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support and
>> so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe or
>> something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs
>> on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
>>
>> Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <
>> ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've
>> noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and
>> wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell
>> licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel
>> guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a
>> dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the
>> opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support
>> its longevity?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Ashton
>>
>>
>>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by John Muczynski <jo...@gmail.com>.
Maybe a NetBeans field -- BeanField -- as in a field where beans are grown.
--
Johnny Muczynski
734-262-2045
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid>
wrote:
> I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
>
> On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not be
> able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the
> foundation as a whole:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html
>
> However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up
> together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (
> tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support and
> so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe or
> something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs
> on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
>
> Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
>
> Gj
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <
> ashtonhogan@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've
> noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and
> wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell
> licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel
> guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a
> dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the
> opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support
> its longevity?
>
> Thanks
> Ashton
>
>
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.INVALID>.
I like it, I like it a lot. Let's do it!
On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 17:01:20 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not be able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the foundation as a whole:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html
However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support and so on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe or something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
Gj
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid> wrote:
Hi all
Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support its longevity?
Thanks
Ashton
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Thanks for the enthusiasm. :-) As an Apache project, NetBeans will not be
able to earn money directly -- all money coming into Apache goes to the
foundation as a whole:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html
However, potentially, there could be an organization that we set up
together comparable to Tomitribe (tomitribe.com), i.e., Apache TomEE (
tomee.apache.org) has an external organization that provides support and so
on -- and also receives money. I.e., we could have a NetBeans Tribe or
something like that, which could offer advanced features or maybe fix bugs
on demand or something like that, in exchange for money.
Just a thought, though something for the future, if at all.
Gj
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Ashton Hogan <as...@ymail.com.invalid>
wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Like all of you, I use NetBeans to build my own projects. Lately I've
> noticed a particular competitor IDE being demanded more on job specs and
> wondered how they managed to grow so big so quick. Turns out they sell
> licenses as well as offering a free version. I, myself, as a user feel
> guilty benefitting as much as I do from NetBeans and never having to pay a
> dime for it, even though I would absolutely do so in a heartbeat given the
> opportunity. Is there any way that NetBeans can make some income to support
> its longevity?
>
> Thanks
> Ashton
>
>
Re: Long Live NetBeans!
Posted by Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com>.
On 03/06/2018 10:50 AM, Ashton Hogan wrote:
> I, myself, as a user feel guilty benefitting as much as I do from
> NetBeans and never having to pay a dime for it
You could always assuage your guilt by joining the Community Acceptance
Testing program (NetCAT):
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT
It's a great way to contribute to making NetBeans the best IDE!
--
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
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