Parrot [was Re: How ASF membership works and what it means]

[Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>]

copying the cocoon folks since we are getting pretty serious with
continuations overthere (we implement them using a modified version of
Mozilla Rhino, a javascript engine written in java)

on 6/26/03 3:15 PM Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Santiago Gala wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>I still feel shocked when I (rarely) see a JavaVM crash with a seg fault
>>(out of memory always, maybe some beta JDK at times). The safety of the
>>JavaVM contrasts a lot with the dangers of C/C++ environments, and makes
>>it compelling to write a java alternative even when good native
>>libraries do exist. This is the viral character of it. I wonder
>>is "parrot" will do the same for perl/python/ruby.
> 
> 
> I think it has always been true for those languages that people
> often choose to reimplement something in that language instead of
> wrapping a C module.
> 
> Some of the big things that Parrot hopefully will bring are:
>   easy interop between languages that are targeted to the parrot VM
>   (use Python and Perl libraries in your BASIC program)
> 
>   Shared VM development between the various dynamic languages
>   instead of having everyone roll their own as it happens now.

yeah, this is a cool thing and it's impressive to note that almost all
modern programming languages are moving (one way or another) the VMS way
of bytecode compilation for a virtual machine. (even XSLT stylesheets
are being compiled into bytecode)

> Dan Sugalski wrote an article about why we can't just run Perl,
> Python or Ruby on the JVM or CLI:
>   http://www.sidhe.org/~dan/blog/archives/000151.html
>
>  - ask
> 
> ps. http://oreilly.com/parrot/ was the April Fools joke,
>     http://www.parrotcode.org/ is not.  :-)
> 

Wow, a VM with native continuations, very interesting.

Question: do you think it would be possible to compile java source code
into parrot bytecode? how would the limited Perl typing capabilities
would impact that?

I feel like crosspollinating these days ;-)

-- 
Stefano.



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Re: Parrot [was Re: How ASF membership works and what it means]

[Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org>]

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

> Question: do you think it would be possible to compile java source code
> into parrot bytecode? how would the limited Perl typing capabilities
> would impact that?

http://www.astray.com/java/

-- 
<!-- Matt -->
<:->get a SMart net</:->
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Re: Parrot [was Re: How ASF membership works and what it means]

[Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>]

Stefano Mazzocchi escribió:
(...)
> 
> Wow, a VM with native continuations, very interesting.
> 
> Question: do you think it would be possible to compile java source code
> into parrot bytecode? how would the limited Perl typing capabilities
> would impact that?
> 

The key piece is the validator. The Java VM uses the class validator for 
security "contracts" (stack violations, typing violations, throwing 
exceptions, method signatures, etc.). I imagine the parrot people will 
use a similar technique on class loading (one of the most powerful 
concepts of java). It is well specified in the Java VM specification.

The caveat here is that I think there are patents covering the 
techniques themselves (from memory).

> I feel like crosspollinating these days ;-)
> 

I saw recently a blog entry classifying kind of bloggers. I was about to 
comment one kind missing: "Butterfly". I feel like a butterfly lately, 
crosspollinating as I wander from flower to flower :-)

I need to focus more, I'll do it when I get more answers than questions 
inside and I see a clear path forward (hopefully somewhere in the near 
future as I'm lagging more and more in day to day tasks...).


-- 
Santiago Gala
High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com)
http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog



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Re: Parrot [was Re: How ASF membership works and what it means]

[Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org>]

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

> Question: do you think it would be possible to compile java source code
> into parrot bytecode? how would the limited Perl typing capabilities
> would impact that?

http://www.astray.com/java/

-- 
<!-- Matt -->
<:->get a SMart net</:->
Spam trap - do not mail: spam-sig@spamtrap.messagelabs.com

Re: Parrot [was Re: How ASF membership works and what it means]

[Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>]

Stefano Mazzocchi escribió:
(...)
> 
> Wow, a VM with native continuations, very interesting.
> 
> Question: do you think it would be possible to compile java source code
> into parrot bytecode? how would the limited Perl typing capabilities
> would impact that?
> 

The key piece is the validator. The Java VM uses the class validator for 
security "contracts" (stack violations, typing violations, throwing 
exceptions, method signatures, etc.). I imagine the parrot people will 
use a similar technique on class loading (one of the most powerful 
concepts of java). It is well specified in the Java VM specification.

The caveat here is that I think there are patents covering the 
techniques themselves (from memory).

> I feel like crosspollinating these days ;-)
> 

I saw recently a blog entry classifying kind of bloggers. I was about to 
comment one kind missing: "Butterfly". I feel like a butterfly lately, 
crosspollinating as I wander from flower to flower :-)

I need to focus more, I'll do it when I get more answers than questions 
inside and I see a clear path forward (hopefully somewhere in the near 
future as I'm lagging more and more in day to day tasks...).


-- 
Santiago Gala
High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com)
http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog