You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@polygene.apache.org by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> on 2017/06/04 04:29:27 UTC
Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Hi,
I am working on a code generator, which will ask a bunch of questions, and
then generate a project for the user that can be built further upon.
Each option the user has, will bring in dependencies, such as a persistence
store, out of a selection of many.
At the moment, we are restricting this generation to Apache License
compatible project outputs, but is there any policy or other restriction
that this couldn't generate a project that (if resdistributed) is under
GPL, or for that matter generate a project that requires the user to go get
a license (say Oracle SQL Server license) elsewhere?
IF this is OK, and we decide to move ahead with it, then I would also
generate a report detailing the licensing requirements of such project, or
that some piece of software needs to be purchased.
Polygene is a library to build applications with, not totally unlike Spring
Framework. And this code generation is an helper mechanism to get people up
and running quickly with their projects, and not required (it is even a new
feature, not yet released).
Thanks
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
It is for users to get a new project of their choosing (commercial or
otherwise) going. The generator asks questions of what needs to be glued
together, and potentially the choices that users make could result in GPL
and/or commercial licensing would be needed.
As it is right now, only ALv2 compatible parts are used, but I could
imagine generation of projects that used Neo4j (potentially AGPLv3), Oracle
SQL or Coherence, BerkleyDB and others. The glue code (when needed) would
exist elsewhere, and a set of of Maven coordinates to create the dependency
in the generated codebase.
Cheers
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:19 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Just to be clear, an ASF project will NOT be planning on using the code
> generator in "GPL mode", right?
>
> (Doing so from a Maven build would be a cheeky way to technically avoid GPL
> "linking" at source level, but would be unclean as the binaries from the
> generated code would be GPL. We could only do so as a truly optional
> add-on)
>
> On 4 Jun 2017 6:29 am, "Niclas Hedhman" <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am working on a code generator, which will ask a bunch of questions,
> and
> > then generate a project for the user that can be built further upon.
> >
> > Each option the user has, will bring in dependencies, such as a
> > persistence store, out of a selection of many.
> >
> > At the moment, we are restricting this generation to Apache License
> > compatible project outputs, but is there any policy or other restriction
> > that this couldn't generate a project that (if resdistributed) is under
> > GPL, or for that matter generate a project that requires the user to go
> get
> > a license (say Oracle SQL Server license) elsewhere?
> >
> > IF this is OK, and we decide to move ahead with it, then I would also
> > generate a report detailing the licensing requirements of such project,
> or
> > that some piece of software needs to be purchased.
> >
> > Polygene is a library to build applications with, not totally unlike
> > Spring Framework. And this code generation is an helper mechanism to get
> > people up and running quickly with their projects, and not required (it
> is
> > even a new feature, not yet released).
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > --
> > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> > http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
> >
>
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
It is for users to get a new project of their choosing (commercial or
otherwise) going. The generator asks questions of what needs to be glued
together, and potentially the choices that users make could result in GPL
and/or commercial licensing would be needed.
As it is right now, only ALv2 compatible parts are used, but I could
imagine generation of projects that used Neo4j (potentially AGPLv3), Oracle
SQL or Coherence, BerkleyDB and others. The glue code (when needed) would
exist elsewhere, and a set of of Maven coordinates to create the dependency
in the generated codebase.
Cheers
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:19 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Just to be clear, an ASF project will NOT be planning on using the code
> generator in "GPL mode", right?
>
> (Doing so from a Maven build would be a cheeky way to technically avoid GPL
> "linking" at source level, but would be unclean as the binaries from the
> generated code would be GPL. We could only do so as a truly optional
> add-on)
>
> On 4 Jun 2017 6:29 am, "Niclas Hedhman" <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am working on a code generator, which will ask a bunch of questions,
> and
> > then generate a project for the user that can be built further upon.
> >
> > Each option the user has, will bring in dependencies, such as a
> > persistence store, out of a selection of many.
> >
> > At the moment, we are restricting this generation to Apache License
> > compatible project outputs, but is there any policy or other restriction
> > that this couldn't generate a project that (if resdistributed) is under
> > GPL, or for that matter generate a project that requires the user to go
> get
> > a license (say Oracle SQL Server license) elsewhere?
> >
> > IF this is OK, and we decide to move ahead with it, then I would also
> > generate a report detailing the licensing requirements of such project,
> or
> > that some piece of software needs to be purchased.
> >
> > Polygene is a library to build applications with, not totally unlike
> > Spring Framework. And this code generation is an helper mechanism to get
> > people up and running quickly with their projects, and not required (it
> is
> > even a new feature, not yet released).
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > --
> > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> > http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
> >
>
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Posted by Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>.
Just to be clear, an ASF project will NOT be planning on using the code
generator in "GPL mode", right?
(Doing so from a Maven build would be a cheeky way to technically avoid GPL
"linking" at source level, but would be unclean as the binaries from the
generated code would be GPL. We could only do so as a truly optional add-on)
On 4 Jun 2017 6:29 am, "Niclas Hedhman" <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am working on a code generator, which will ask a bunch of questions, and
> then generate a project for the user that can be built further upon.
>
> Each option the user has, will bring in dependencies, such as a
> persistence store, out of a selection of many.
>
> At the moment, we are restricting this generation to Apache License
> compatible project outputs, but is there any policy or other restriction
> that this couldn't generate a project that (if resdistributed) is under
> GPL, or for that matter generate a project that requires the user to go get
> a license (say Oracle SQL Server license) elsewhere?
>
> IF this is OK, and we decide to move ahead with it, then I would also
> generate a report detailing the licensing requirements of such project, or
> that some piece of software needs to be purchased.
>
> Polygene is a library to build applications with, not totally unlike
> Spring Framework. And this code generation is an helper mechanism to get
> people up and running quickly with their projects, and not required (it is
> even a new feature, not yet released).
>
>
> Thanks
> --
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
>
Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Posted by Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>.
Just to be clear, an ASF project will NOT be planning on using the code
generator in "GPL mode", right?
(Doing so from a Maven build would be a cheeky way to technically avoid GPL
"linking" at source level, but would be unclean as the binaries from the
generated code would be GPL. We could only do so as a truly optional add-on)
On 4 Jun 2017 6:29 am, "Niclas Hedhman" <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am working on a code generator, which will ask a bunch of questions, and
> then generate a project for the user that can be built further upon.
>
> Each option the user has, will bring in dependencies, such as a
> persistence store, out of a selection of many.
>
> At the moment, we are restricting this generation to Apache License
> compatible project outputs, but is there any policy or other restriction
> that this couldn't generate a project that (if resdistributed) is under
> GPL, or for that matter generate a project that requires the user to go get
> a license (say Oracle SQL Server license) elsewhere?
>
> IF this is OK, and we decide to move ahead with it, then I would also
> generate a report detailing the licensing requirements of such project, or
> that some piece of software needs to be purchased.
>
> Polygene is a library to build applications with, not totally unlike
> Spring Framework. And this code generation is an helper mechanism to get
> people up and running quickly with their projects, and not required (it is
> even a new feature, not yet released).
>
>
> Thanks
> --
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
>
Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Posted by Luis Villa <lu...@lu.is>.
Can I suggest that you make explicit that the emitted code can be under any
license? It can occasionally come up in license reviews (recently came up
in an acquisition I was involved in) and so being explicit about it can be
helpful.
Thanks-
Luis
On Mon, Jun 5, 2017, 12:15 AM Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
>
> Nah, I am pretty much of the same opinion, and with ample warning I don't
> see a problem. Just wanted to make sure that this hasn't come up and been
> ruled out of the question.
>
> Thanks
> Niclas
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I tend to agree with Ted on this particular point.
>>
>>
>>
>> Niclas, if you want something more formal than that, I encourage you to
>> file a ticket in
>> LEGAL JIRA [1].
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <le...@apache.org>
>> Date: Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 12:13 AM
>> To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <le...@apache.org>
>> Cc: "dev@polygene.apache.org" <de...@polygene.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Legality aside, I wouldn't see a problem with this if there is a
>> warning/report about licensing status of the result of building a project.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding legality, I see no difference between your project and a code
>> development tool that allows me too add dependencies that have a variety of
>> licenses.
>>
>>
>>
>> I speak here as just me, not as a lawyer, not as any Apache authority.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 4, 2017 06:29, "Niclas Hedhman" <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am working on a code generator, which will ask a bunch of questions,
>> and then generate a project for the user that can be built further upon.
>>
>>
>>
>> Each option the user has, will bring in dependencies, such as a
>> persistence store, out of a selection of many.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the moment, we are restricting this generation to Apache License
>> compatible project outputs, but is there any policy or other restriction
>> that this couldn't generate a project that (if resdistributed) is under
>> GPL, or for that matter generate a project that requires the user to go get
>> a license (say Oracle SQL Server license) elsewhere?
>>
>>
>> IF this is OK, and we decide to move ahead with it, then I would also
>> generate a report detailing the licensing requirements of such project, or
>> that some piece of software needs to be purchased.
>>
>>
>>
>> Polygene is a library to build applications with, not totally unlike
>> Spring Framework. And this code generation is an helper mechanism to get
>> people up and running quickly with their projects, and not required (it is
>> even a new feature, not yet released).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --
>>
>> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
>> http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
>
Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
Nah, I am pretty much of the same opinion, and with ample warning I don't
see a problem. Just wanted to make sure that this hasn't come up and been
ruled out of the question.
Thanks
Niclas
On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> I tend to agree with Ted on this particular point.
>
>
>
> Niclas, if you want something more formal than that, I encourage you to
> file a ticket in
> LEGAL JIRA [1].
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> [1] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <le...@apache.org>
> Date: Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 12:13 AM
> To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <le...@apache.org>
> Cc: "dev@polygene.apache.org" <de...@polygene.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
>
>
>
>
>
> Legality aside, I wouldn't see a problem with this if there is a
> warning/report about licensing status of the result of building a project.
>
>
>
> Regarding legality, I see no difference between your project and a code
> development tool that allows me too add dependencies that have a variety of
> licenses.
>
>
>
> I speak here as just me, not as a lawyer, not as any Apache authority.
>
>
>
> On Jun 4, 2017 06:29, "Niclas Hedhman" <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I am working on a code generator, which will ask a bunch of questions, and
> then generate a project for the user that can be built further upon.
>
>
>
> Each option the user has, will bring in dependencies, such as a
> persistence store, out of a selection of many.
>
>
>
> At the moment, we are restricting this generation to Apache License
> compatible project outputs, but is there any policy or other restriction
> that this couldn't generate a project that (if resdistributed) is under
> GPL, or for that matter generate a project that requires the user to go get
> a license (say Oracle SQL Server license) elsewhere?
>
>
> IF this is OK, and we decide to move ahead with it, then I would also
> generate a report detailing the licensing requirements of such project, or
> that some piece of software needs to be purchased.
>
>
>
> Polygene is a library to build applications with, not totally unlike
> Spring Framework. And this code generation is an helper mechanism to get
> people up and running quickly with their projects, and not required (it is
> even a new feature, not yet released).
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
>
>
>
>
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
Nah, I am pretty much of the same opinion, and with ample warning I don't
see a problem. Just wanted to make sure that this hasn't come up and been
ruled out of the question.
Thanks
Niclas
On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> I tend to agree with Ted on this particular point.
>
>
>
> Niclas, if you want something more formal than that, I encourage you to
> file a ticket in
> LEGAL JIRA [1].
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> [1] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <le...@apache.org>
> Date: Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 12:13 AM
> To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <le...@apache.org>
> Cc: "dev@polygene.apache.org" <de...@polygene.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
>
>
>
>
>
> Legality aside, I wouldn't see a problem with this if there is a
> warning/report about licensing status of the result of building a project.
>
>
>
> Regarding legality, I see no difference between your project and a code
> development tool that allows me too add dependencies that have a variety of
> licenses.
>
>
>
> I speak here as just me, not as a lawyer, not as any Apache authority.
>
>
>
> On Jun 4, 2017 06:29, "Niclas Hedhman" <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I am working on a code generator, which will ask a bunch of questions, and
> then generate a project for the user that can be built further upon.
>
>
>
> Each option the user has, will bring in dependencies, such as a
> persistence store, out of a selection of many.
>
>
>
> At the moment, we are restricting this generation to Apache License
> compatible project outputs, but is there any policy or other restriction
> that this couldn't generate a project that (if resdistributed) is under
> GPL, or for that matter generate a project that requires the user to go get
> a license (say Oracle SQL Server license) elsewhere?
>
>
> IF this is OK, and we decide to move ahead with it, then I would also
> generate a report detailing the licensing requirements of such project, or
> that some piece of software needs to be purchased.
>
>
>
> Polygene is a library to build applications with, not totally unlike
> Spring Framework. And this code generation is an helper mechanism to get
> people up and running quickly with their projects, and not required (it is
> even a new feature, not yet released).
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
>
>
>
>
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Posted by Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>.
I tend to agree with Ted on this particular point.
Niclas, if you want something more formal than that, I encourage you to file a ticket in
LEGAL JIRA [1].
Thanks,
Chris
[1] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL
From: Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <le...@apache.org>
Date: Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 12:13 AM
To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <le...@apache.org>
Cc: "dev@polygene.apache.org" <de...@polygene.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Legality aside, I wouldn't see a problem with this if there is a warning/report about licensing status of the result of building a project.
Regarding legality, I see no difference between your project and a code development tool that allows me too add dependencies that have a variety of licenses.
I speak here as just me, not as a lawyer, not as any Apache authority.
On Jun 4, 2017 06:29, "Niclas Hedhman" <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
Hi,
I am working on a code generator, which will ask a bunch of questions, and then generate a project for the user that can be built further upon.
Each option the user has, will bring in dependencies, such as a persistence store, out of a selection of many.
At the moment, we are restricting this generation to Apache License compatible project outputs, but is there any policy or other restriction that this couldn't generate a project that (if resdistributed) is under GPL, or for that matter generate a project that requires the user to go get a license (say Oracle SQL Server license) elsewhere?
IF this is OK, and we decide to move ahead with it, then I would also generate a report detailing the licensing requirements of such project, or that some piece of software needs to be purchased.
Polygene is a library to build applications with, not totally unlike Spring Framework. And this code generation is an helper mechanism to get people up and running quickly with their projects, and not required (it is even a new feature, not yet released).
Thanks
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Posted by Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>.
I tend to agree with Ted on this particular point.
Niclas, if you want something more formal than that, I encourage you to file a ticket in
LEGAL JIRA [1].
Thanks,
Chris
[1] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL
From: Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <le...@apache.org>
Date: Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 12:13 AM
To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <le...@apache.org>
Cc: "dev@polygene.apache.org" <de...@polygene.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Legality aside, I wouldn't see a problem with this if there is a warning/report about licensing status of the result of building a project.
Regarding legality, I see no difference between your project and a code development tool that allows me too add dependencies that have a variety of licenses.
I speak here as just me, not as a lawyer, not as any Apache authority.
On Jun 4, 2017 06:29, "Niclas Hedhman" <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
Hi,
I am working on a code generator, which will ask a bunch of questions, and then generate a project for the user that can be built further upon.
Each option the user has, will bring in dependencies, such as a persistence store, out of a selection of many.
At the moment, we are restricting this generation to Apache License compatible project outputs, but is there any policy or other restriction that this couldn't generate a project that (if resdistributed) is under GPL, or for that matter generate a project that requires the user to go get a license (say Oracle SQL Server license) elsewhere?
IF this is OK, and we decide to move ahead with it, then I would also generate a report detailing the licensing requirements of such project, or that some piece of software needs to be purchased.
Polygene is a library to build applications with, not totally unlike Spring Framework. And this code generation is an helper mechanism to get people up and running quickly with their projects, and not required (it is even a new feature, not yet released).
Thanks
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Legality aside, I wouldn't see a problem with this if there is a
warning/report about licensing status of the result of building a project.
Regarding legality, I see no difference between your project and a code
development tool that allows me too add dependencies that have a variety of
licenses.
I speak here as just me, not as a lawyer, not as any Apache authority.
On Jun 4, 2017 06:29, "Niclas Hedhman" <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
Hi,
I am working on a code generator, which will ask a bunch of questions, and
then generate a project for the user that can be built further upon.
Each option the user has, will bring in dependencies, such as a persistence
store, out of a selection of many.
At the moment, we are restricting this generation to Apache License
compatible project outputs, but is there any policy or other restriction
that this couldn't generate a project that (if resdistributed) is under
GPL, or for that matter generate a project that requires the user to go get
a license (say Oracle SQL Server license) elsewhere?
IF this is OK, and we decide to move ahead with it, then I would also
generate a report detailing the licensing requirements of such project, or
that some piece of software needs to be purchased.
Polygene is a library to build applications with, not totally unlike Spring
Framework. And this code generation is an helper mechanism to get people up
and running quickly with their projects, and not required (it is even a new
feature, not yet released).
Thanks
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
Re: Code generation resulting in GPL or even commercial licensing
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Legality aside, I wouldn't see a problem with this if there is a
warning/report about licensing status of the result of building a project.
Regarding legality, I see no difference between your project and a code
development tool that allows me too add dependencies that have a variety of
licenses.
I speak here as just me, not as a lawyer, not as any Apache authority.
On Jun 4, 2017 06:29, "Niclas Hedhman" <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
Hi,
I am working on a code generator, which will ask a bunch of questions, and
then generate a project for the user that can be built further upon.
Each option the user has, will bring in dependencies, such as a persistence
store, out of a selection of many.
At the moment, we are restricting this generation to Apache License
compatible project outputs, but is there any policy or other restriction
that this couldn't generate a project that (if resdistributed) is under
GPL, or for that matter generate a project that requires the user to go get
a license (say Oracle SQL Server license) elsewhere?
IF this is OK, and we decide to move ahead with it, then I would also
generate a report detailing the licensing requirements of such project, or
that some piece of software needs to be purchased.
Polygene is a library to build applications with, not totally unlike Spring
Framework. And this code generation is an helper mechanism to get people up
and running quickly with their projects, and not required (it is even a new
feature, not yet released).
Thanks
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java