Question...

[OCD Technical Support <su...@kawartha.com>]

Hello there...

We applied for mirror site status starting on October 23rd, 1997 at
which point we were informed that sometimes it takes up to a month for
the listing to be updated.  With perfect understanding and patience we
waited a couple of months at which point we sent another email and got
no response.  A week later we sent an email which got a response stating
it takes up to a month again.. fine..

To make a VERY long story short we've emailed every 45-50 days since and
got the same response.... TO THIS DAY, we are still not listed as a
mirror site.  It's pretty embarassing as we were the absolute FIRST
mirror site in Canada many ions ago.... but in late 96 we had to drop
the mirror status due to bandwidth problems.

We also have a very large clientele which uses Apache and comes to us
for their downloads.  In our information sent to our customers we've
always instructed them to go to http://www.apache.org and select our
mirror site.  Pretty embrarrassing again when we put out a memo saying
it's only temporary that our site in unavailable and a year and a half
later almost it's still not resolved.

Our mirror site is still updated daily at http://apache.kawartha.com

Since we started having problems with the mirror site at kawartha.com
we've setup 6 other mirror sites in different regions and they've been
added to the mirror list within 14 days... WHY?

Thank you for your time,

Paul Stewart
Network Systems Administrator
Online Computer Distribution
Peterborough, Ontario Canada

Re: Question...

[Brian Behlendorf <br...@hyperreal.org>]

There has never been a formalized process for adding mirrors to the site,
which I think it probably the source of people's complaints.  I'm stating
this as a fact, not as an intentional situation or an ideal situation, just
as a fact.

The things you should know when complaining about this:

1) The list of mirror sites is in a CVS tree, which every core member of
the development team has commit access to.  Thus, adding a mirror is a
really simple process, and any core member who is informed of a new mirror
site should really take it upon themselves to deal with that information.
I am pretty sure I have added mirrors that I've been directly informed of
fairly quickly.  I, however, do not answer apache@apache.org mail.

2) The list is a simple flat-file, not a database.  Which mean adding is a
manual process.  It also means removal is a manual process.  A few months
back I was getting tired of the dead links in the mirrors database and went
about scanning them, and mirrors which were inaccessible or no longer
online or not current after a few days were removed, WITH notification to
the mirror maintainer.  Some mirrors were reinstated on the list after
being brought back up or made current.  

3) The "closer.cgi" script uses the reverse-DNS of the IP number of the
request to "guess" which country-code you're in and thus which set of
mirrors to respond.  If you think your mirror isn't listed, please please
check the full list of mirrors.  Note that "country code" != the last
segment of the hostname of the mirror.

Clearly the "ideal" situation would be a database which eliminated the need
for someone within the apache team to maintain this database, coupled with
a scanning program which could check each link on a periodic basis for
freshness.  There was a volunteer doing this at one point but he appears to
have lost interest.  If anyone would like to volunteer to build this
"ideal" setup, great, I can provide you with an account at apache.org, a
mysql database, and you can develop under mod_php or mod_jserv with mysql
as the backend (they're already installed).  

Until that time, it's clear the submission duties need to be formalized a
bit more, or at least separated from the details of handling
apache@apache.org mail.  Therefore I've created a "mirror-submit" alias at
apache.org, and updated the web pages accordingly.  That address goes to
me, and I will deal with the requests for adds/removes.  I may have a
couple-day delay simply for efficiency, but I will respond to all messages
sent to that address.  Hopefully others in the development group can pick
this up at some point.

So, in the future, please send any changes to mirror-submit@apache.org.
Please let me know if there are other places I should mention this address.
 Thanks, and sorry if anyone felt personally slighted by the lack of process.

	Brian

At 09:49 AM 12/30/98 -0500, Eric Gauthier wrote:
>Corneliu,
>
>>So, "Mr. Brian", had informed us that our server was removed from the
>>mirror list (but our mirror was *never* mentioned on their list).
>
>I really don't want to get into the bigger debate of why it is so difficult 
>to get your site onto the mirrors list (I've heard lots of complaints and
>I don't have anything to do with it).  But, its my impression that Brian 
>isn't the one who actually puts people onto the mirrors list - I think its 
>someone else at apache.  I just want to make sure that the flames (which 
>appear deserved) are directed at the right person...  Perhapse Brian could
>tell us what the actual internal procedure is then the others on this list
>could help out the newer members?
>
> -- Eric
>
> _________________________________________________
>| Dreamcatchers Net 
>|   Internet Access, Web Hosting and Design
>|   PO Box 2659, Duxbury, MA 02331-2659
>| eric@dreamcatchers.net
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
History is made at night;                         brian@hyperreal.org
  character is what you are in the dark.

Re: Question...

[Corneliu Tanasa <co...@logicnet.ro>]

OCD Technical Support wrote:

Hi,

The answer here should be just one:  "Don't try to understand these things,
because you should be mad".  This is an approximate translation from a poem
written by Eminescu.   My story is somehow different: we had started to
mirror (on a daily basis), then we had applied to be mentioned on the
mirror list and after more than six months the mirror list was NOT
updated.  Then, we had some problems with our mirror server, and after
fixing them, the mirror of Apache software, of course that was outdated.
So, "Mr. Brian", had informed us that our server was removed from the
mirror list (but our mirror was *never* mentioned on their list).  I think
that the better way is to instruct your users about the *your* mirror and
send "Mr. Brian" and the other maintainers of that site where ever you
like.  It seems impossible to understand his behaviour.

Regards,
Corneliu Tanasa
LOGIC TELECOM SA


> Hello there...
>
> We applied for mirror site status starting on October 23rd, 1997 at
> which point we were informed that sometimes it takes up to a month for
> the listing to be updated.  With perfect understanding and patience we
> waited a couple of months at which point we sent another email and got
> no response.  A week later we sent an email which got a response stating
> it takes up to a month again.. fine..
>
> To make a VERY long story short we've emailed every 45-50 days since and
> got the same response.... TO THIS DAY, we are still not listed as a
> mirror site.  It's pretty embarassing as we were the absolute FIRST
> mirror site in Canada many ions ago.... but in late 96 we had to drop
> the mirror status due to bandwidth problems.
>
> We also have a very large clientele which uses Apache and comes to us
> for their downloads.  In our information sent to our customers we've
> always instructed them to go to http://www.apache.org and select our
> mirror site.  Pretty embrarrassing again when we put out a memo saying
> it's only temporary that our site in unavailable and a year and a half
> later almost it's still not resolved.
>
> Our mirror site is still updated daily at http://apache.kawartha.com
>
> Since we started having problems with the mirror site at kawartha.com
> we've setup 6 other mirror sites in different regions and they've been
> added to the mirror list within 14 days... WHY?
>
> Thank you for your time,
>
> Paul Stewart
> Network Systems Administrator
> Online Computer Distribution
> Peterborough, Ontario Canada