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Posted to dev@httpd.apache.org by Jeff Trawick <tr...@attglobal.net> on 2003/02/26 13:31:12 UTC

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 CHANGES

stas@apache.org wrote:

> stas        2003/02/25 15:33:55
>
>   Modified:    server   Tag: APACHE_2_0_BRANCH connection.c
>                .        Tag: APACHE_2_0_BRANCH CHANGES
>   Log:
>   check the return value of ap_run_pre_connection(). So if the
>   pre_connection phase fails (without setting c->aborted)
>   ap_run_process_connection is not executed.
>   Reviewed by:	trawick, jim


I don't recall a vote for merging it into the stable branch.


Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 CHANGES

Posted by Jeff Trawick <tr...@attglobal.net>.
Greg Stein wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 05:10:12PM -0800, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
>
> >--On Thursday, February 27, 2003 12:02 PM +1100 Stas Bekman
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>So if absolutely anything added to the dev branch must have a vote
> >>for before merging back to the stable branch, I stand corrected and
> >>will make sure that this won't happen again in the future. I
> >>thought that the common sense should be applied when judging what
> >>can be backported without the vote.
> >
> >Heh.  The entire reason for the vote is to prevent 'common sense'
> >from interfering with the stability of the tree.  -- justin
>
>
> Bah. That's insanity. A bug fix is a bug fix. We never took votes for bug
> fixes for 1.3, and I see no reason to start now.

Please go update STATUS with your vote on how this should be handled
(the R-T-C vs. C-T-R vote).  I think some folks may not be happy with 
the current philosophy but haven't made their feelings known formally.
If you aren't happy with the current choices, add one.


Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 CHANGES

Posted by Jeff Trawick <tr...@attglobal.net>.
Greg Ames wrote:

> Aaron Bannert wrote:
>
> > I see the need for letting patches age in the unstable tree, but
> > I think we could do that without having to vote on each and
> > every change.
>
>
> Yeah, that's what I meant by "lazy consensus" in the STATUS file.


I would think lazy consensus would be when somebody actually states that 
they want to merge something and nobody stands up and says "no" within a 
certain timeframe.

Somehow the word "consensus" doesn't seem appropriate when there is no 
shared knowledge about what might get merged but instead it just gets 
suddenly merged.

> But I can also see problems with that being the policy.  What's mainline
> code vs. non-mainline?


not impossible to describe, if you aren't too picky

if it gets exercised by GET /cgi-bin/printenv or by GET /manual/ using 
the default config it is mainline?  just a guess


Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 CHANGES

Posted by Greg Ames <gr...@apache.org>.
Aaron Bannert wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 07:56  AM, Greg Ames wrote:
> 
>> Most of us have committed bug fixes with the best of intentions which 
>> were not quite complete or had unintended side effects.  I certainly 
>> have - the deferred write pool stuff in core_output_filter comes to 
>> mind.  Letting the fixes age a bit in the unstable tree reduces the 
>> probability of unpleasant surprises happening in the stable tree, at 
>> least for mainline code.  We can be extra diligent about 
>> reviewing/testing changes that we know are not mainline.
> 
> 
> I see the need for letting patches age in the unstable tree, but
> I think we could do that without having to vote on each and
> every change.

Yeah, that's what I meant by "lazy consensus" in the STATUS file.

But I can also see problems with that being the policy.  What's mainline code 
vs. non-mainline?  How long is long enough?  The answer could change around 
Hannukkah/Christmas/New Year's LinuxWorld/ApacheCon/whatever.

Greg


Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 CHANGES

Posted by Aaron Bannert <aa...@clove.org>.
On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 07:56  AM, Greg Ames wrote:
> Most of us have committed bug fixes with the best of intentions which 
> were not quite complete or had unintended side effects.  I certainly 
> have - the deferred write pool stuff in core_output_filter comes to 
> mind.  Letting the fixes age a bit in the unstable tree reduces the 
> probability of unpleasant surprises happening in the stable tree, at 
> least for mainline code.  We can be extra diligent about 
> reviewing/testing changes that we know are not mainline.

I see the need for letting patches age in the unstable tree, but
I think we could do that without having to vote on each and
every change.

-aaron


Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 CHANGES

Posted by Jeff Trawick <tr...@attglobal.net>.
Greg Ames wrote:

>
> mind.  Letting the fixes age a bit in the unstable tree reduces the
> probability of unpleasant surprises happening in the stable tree, at
> least for mainline code.  We can be extra diligent about
> reviewing/testing changes that we know are not mainline.


Note that for me and perhaps others, the philosophy you just mentioned 
is not something I would vote for under any forseeable circumstances.


Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 CHANGES

Posted by Greg Ames <gr...@apache.org>.
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> --On Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:55 PM -0800 Greg Stein 
> <gs...@lyra.org> wrote:
> 
>> And remember: this *is* source control. If somebody commits a bug
>> fix and people want to shoot it down, then we can revert it. But
>> assuming correctness and committing the fix is hella better than
>> gating every single little change.
> 
> 
> We have lazy consensus on the unstable tree (2.1).  I agree with you 
> 100% in the context of httpd-2.1 - go commit first - break the tree - we 
> can revert changes easily as we have no expectations of stability there.
> 
> But, I don't trust anyone's 'common sense' to know whether the most 
> trivial fix broke anything or whether a bug fix is 'right.'  Yes, it 
> means gating changes on stable (2.0), but that's a price I'm willing to 
> see us pay.  I'd hope our code quality and stability improves because of 
> that.  -- justin

Well said, Justin.

Most of us have committed bug fixes with the best of intentions which were not 
quite complete or had unintended side effects.  I certainly have - the deferred 
write pool stuff in core_output_filter comes to mind.  Letting the fixes age a 
bit in the unstable tree reduces the probability of unpleasant surprises 
happening in the stable tree, at least for mainline code.  We can be extra 
diligent about reviewing/testing changes that we know are not mainline.

Greg


Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 CHANGES

Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
--On Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:55 PM -0800 Greg Stein 
<gs...@lyra.org> wrote:

> And remember: this *is* source control. If somebody commits a bug
> fix and people want to shoot it down, then we can revert it. But
> assuming correctness and committing the fix is hella better than
> gating every single little change.

We have lazy consensus on the unstable tree (2.1).  I agree with you 
100% in the context of httpd-2.1 - go commit first - break the tree - 
we can revert changes easily as we have no expectations of stability 
there.

But, I don't trust anyone's 'common sense' to know whether the most 
trivial fix broke anything or whether a bug fix is 'right.'  Yes, it 
means gating changes on stable (2.0), but that's a price I'm willing 
to see us pay.  I'd hope our code quality and stability improves 
because of that.  -- justin

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 CHANGES

Posted by Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com>.
Greg Stein wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 05:10:12PM -0800, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> 
>>--On Thursday, February 27, 2003 12:02 PM +1100 Stas Bekman 
>><st...@stason.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So if absolutely anything added to the dev branch must have a vote
>>>for before merging back to the stable branch, I stand corrected and
>>>will make sure that this won't happen again in the future. I
>>>thought that the common sense should be applied when judging what
>>>can be backported without the vote.
>>
>>Heh.  The entire reason for the vote is to prevent 'common sense' 
>>from interfering with the stability of the tree.  -- justin
> 
> 
> Bah. That's insanity. A bug fix is a bug fix. We never took votes for bug
> fixes for 1.3, and I see no reason to start now.
> 
> Feature changes? Sure, we voted for those.
> 
> 
> Seriously, people. If there is a bug, then it should be fixed no matter
> where it lies. Sure, there can be some waffling based on *how* a bug is
> fixed, and hopefully people will know when to ask.
> 
> What's the problem with fixing a bug. Really?

We've had problems in the past with folks rewriting major portions of 
the server to fix relatively insignificant bugs and breaking major 
function across several releases as a result.  The rewrites were 
generally NOT posted as a patch on the dev list prior to being committed 
and that is the real problem (ie, I can deal with a patch that is not 
quite right the first go'round provided folks were give an opportunity 
to review it before it goes in).

Once code is committed, it is a difficult to get it out without bruising 
egos and causing waves of bad mojo.  Been there, done that and threw 
away the snow globe.

I am not going to cite examples so don't ask because it's not productive 
to go digging in the past.

Bill



Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 CHANGES

Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
On Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 05:10:12PM -0800, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> --On Thursday, February 27, 2003 12:02 PM +1100 Stas Bekman 
> <st...@stason.org> wrote:
> 
> > So if absolutely anything added to the dev branch must have a vote
> > for before merging back to the stable branch, I stand corrected and
> > will make sure that this won't happen again in the future. I
> > thought that the common sense should be applied when judging what
> > can be backported without the vote.
> 
> Heh.  The entire reason for the vote is to prevent 'common sense' 
> from interfering with the stability of the tree.  -- justin

Bah. That's insanity. A bug fix is a bug fix. We never took votes for bug
fixes for 1.3, and I see no reason to start now.

Feature changes? Sure, we voted for those.


Seriously, people. If there is a bug, then it should be fixed no matter
where it lies. Sure, there can be some waffling based on *how* a bug is
fixed, and hopefully people will know when to ask.

What's the problem with fixing a bug. Really?

And remember: this *is* source control. If somebody commits a bug fix and
people want to shoot it down, then we can revert it. But assuming
correctness and committing the fix is hella better than gating every single
little change.

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 CHANGES

Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
--On Thursday, February 27, 2003 12:02 PM +1100 Stas Bekman 
<st...@stason.org> wrote:

> So if absolutely anything added to the dev branch must have a vote
> for before merging back to the stable branch, I stand corrected and
> will make sure that this won't happen again in the future. I
> thought that the common sense should be applied when judging what
> can be backported without the vote.

Heh.  The entire reason for the vote is to prevent 'common sense' 
from interfering with the stability of the tree.  -- justin

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 CHANGES

Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Jeff Trawick wrote:
> stas@apache.org wrote:
> 
>> stas        2003/02/25 15:33:55
>>
>>   Modified:    server   Tag: APACHE_2_0_BRANCH connection.c
>>                .        Tag: APACHE_2_0_BRANCH CHANGES
>>   Log:
>>   check the return value of ap_run_pre_connection(). So if the
>>   pre_connection phase fails (without setting c->aborted)
>>   ap_run_process_connection is not executed.
>>   Reviewed by:    trawick, jim
> 
> I don't recall a vote for merging it into the stable branch.

I figured, since it's a segfault bug fix (httpd was segfaulting when 
run_process_connection was run, when pre_connection has failed) it's an 
obvious 'must go into the stable branch' (making it more stable). My patch 
hasn't introduced a new API or broken anything, other than doing something 
that should have been done in first place: checking the return value of the call.

So if absolutely anything added to the dev branch must have a vote for before 
merging back to the stable branch, I stand corrected and will make sure that 
this won't happen again in the future. I thought that the common sense should 
be applied when judging what can be backported without the vote.

__________________________________________________________________
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