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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> on 2016/10/06 08:31:24 UTC
Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing lists)
On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> ...We need to set up the Wiki with as the first item to address in detail is a
> community-driven transition plan, with what we want to move, when, in what
> order, etc....
Agreed, we can just request that but we need to select between
MoinMoin and Confluence, examples:
http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/FrontPage
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SLING/Index
We're using Confluence in the projects where I'm active and it works
well but it's IMO becoming more and more bloated with every release,
whereas MoinMoin is simpler and more lightweight.
If NetBeans has existing wiki content to migrate we might also look at
which migration path is easier.
-Bertrand
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing lists)
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
We had some good experience with using asciidoc.
That can be used as base for a web page but also get processed into a PDF or help pages.
We only did this for much smaller projects so far though.
LieGrue,
strub
> Am 07.10.2016 um 09:48 schrieb Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>:
>
> Great, thanks!
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>> ...So, to sum up:
>>> - CMS: NO
>>> - Moin Wiki: NO
>>> - Confluence: POSSIBLE ...
>>
>> I have requested a Confluence wiki at
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12724
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing lists)
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Great, thanks!
Gj
On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > ...So, to sum up:
> > - CMS: NO
> > - Moin Wiki: NO
> > - Confluence: POSSIBLE ...
>
> I have requested a Confluence wiki at
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12724
>
> -Bertrand
>
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing lists)
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...So, to sum up:
> - CMS: NO
> - Moin Wiki: NO
> - Confluence: POSSIBLE ...
I have requested a Confluence wiki at
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12724
-Bertrand
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing lists)
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
valid point. Most times we use the [DISCUSS] tag in the subject to denote such threads.
LieGrue,
strub
> Am 06.10.2016 um 14:40 schrieb Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>:
>
> Le 06/10/16 à 14:32, Daniel Gruno a écrit :
>> On 10/06/2016 02:30 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>>> OK, great.
>>>
>>> Though before using something like that, just discussing in the way we're
>>> doing, i.e,, feeling things out as we're currently doing, is a pretty good
>>> thing.
>> Either way is fine, as long as it's open to all and the result is
>> brought back to the mailing list. STeVe is great for high volume voting
>> (if hundreds, thousands of voters etc), but if it's only 50-100 votes,
>> then the mailing list should work :)
>
> More important : beside releases, you should not have to start a vote
> very often.
>
> The key is to build consensus. If some disagree, try to find where the
> friction is, and try to address it quickly, before even starting a vote.
> If a vote is needed, then you start dividing the community, and it's
> hard to fix...
>
>
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing
lists)
Posted by Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>.
Le 06/10/16 � 14:47, Daniel Gruno a �crit :
> On 10/06/2016 02:40 PM, Emmanuel L�charny wrote:
>> Le 06/10/16 � 14:32, Daniel Gruno a �crit :
>>> On 10/06/2016 02:30 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>>>> OK, great.
>>>>
>>>> Though before using something like that, just discussing in the way we're
>>>> doing, i.e,, feeling things out as we're currently doing, is a pretty good
>>>> thing.
>>> Either way is fine, as long as it's open to all and the result is
>>> brought back to the mailing list. STeVe is great for high volume voting
>>> (if hundreds, thousands of voters etc), but if it's only 50-100 votes,
>>> then the mailing list should work :)
>> More important : beside releases, you should not have to start a vote
>> very often.
>>
>> The key is to build consensus. If some disagree, try to find where the
>> friction is, and try to address it quickly, before even starting a vote.
>> If a vote is needed, then you start dividing the community, and it's
>> hard to fix...
>>
>>
> On the whole, I agree that resorting to voting should be a last resort
> for most issues - but you can't always get consensus on some issues
> (like "pick your favorite color"). I personally don't think of this as
> dividing the community as much as getting input from more people that
> may not otherwise have wanted to participate in the discussion (some
> people just don't like writing lengthy emails).
Typically when a Logo contest is started, you start a vote. It's ot
about consensus here, it's about (good) taste ;-)
There is one single rule : 'there is no definitive rule'
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing
lists)
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 10/06/2016 02:40 PM, Emmanuel L�charny wrote:
> Le 06/10/16 � 14:32, Daniel Gruno a �crit :
>> On 10/06/2016 02:30 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>>> OK, great.
>>>
>>> Though before using something like that, just discussing in the way we're
>>> doing, i.e,, feeling things out as we're currently doing, is a pretty good
>>> thing.
>> Either way is fine, as long as it's open to all and the result is
>> brought back to the mailing list. STeVe is great for high volume voting
>> (if hundreds, thousands of voters etc), but if it's only 50-100 votes,
>> then the mailing list should work :)
>
> More important : beside releases, you should not have to start a vote
> very often.
>
> The key is to build consensus. If some disagree, try to find where the
> friction is, and try to address it quickly, before even starting a vote.
> If a vote is needed, then you start dividing the community, and it's
> hard to fix...
>
>
On the whole, I agree that resorting to voting should be a last resort
for most issues - but you can't always get consensus on some issues
(like "pick your favorite color"). I personally don't think of this as
dividing the community as much as getting input from more people that
may not otherwise have wanted to participate in the discussion (some
people just don't like writing lengthy emails).
If we reach a consensus here, which I think we've already got given the
constraints, that's super :). Just pointing out that if we need it, we
have systems and processes for voting.
With regards,
Daniel.
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing
lists)
Posted by Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>.
Le 06/10/16 � 14:32, Daniel Gruno a �crit :
> On 10/06/2016 02:30 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>> OK, great.
>>
>> Though before using something like that, just discussing in the way we're
>> doing, i.e,, feeling things out as we're currently doing, is a pretty good
>> thing.
> Either way is fine, as long as it's open to all and the result is
> brought back to the mailing list. STeVe is great for high volume voting
> (if hundreds, thousands of voters etc), but if it's only 50-100 votes,
> then the mailing list should work :)
More important : beside releases, you should not have to start a vote
very often.
The key is to build consensus. If some disagree, try to find where the
friction is, and try to address it quickly, before even starting a vote.
If a vote is needed, then you start dividing the community, and it's
hard to fix...
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing
lists)
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 10/06/2016 02:30 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> OK, great.
>
> Though before using something like that, just discussing in the way we're
> doing, i.e,, feeling things out as we're currently doing, is a pretty good
> thing.
Either way is fine, as long as it's open to all and the result is
brought back to the mailing list. STeVe is great for high volume voting
(if hundreds, thousands of voters etc), but if it's only 50-100 votes,
then the mailing list should work :)
With regards,
Daniel.
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 10/06/2016 02:26 PM, Anael Mobilia wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> How these questions should be solved ?
>>>
>>> We need every people migrating from *netbeans.org mailing-list to say
>>> yes or no on the mailing-list (high volume of mail)
>>>
>>> Is there any "votation" tool usually used on the ASF ?
>>
>> We have a STEvE instance (see steve.apache.org for details) if we need
>> to perform votes, this can be any sort of vote.
>>
>>>
>>> ... indeed, how to have "the" voice of the community for all theses
>>> important changes ?
>>>
>>> As a netcat tester, I remember some survey to decide for netbeans (not)
>>> launching.
>>> IMHO, it should be a great tool to have the "vox populi" :-)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Anael
>>>
>>> Le 2016-10-06 12:11, Daniel Gruno a �crit :
>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>> Nope, nope, nope. We do not support adding new projects to the CMS
>>>> currently. And the moin wiki is sadly terrible by design, so unless we
>>>> want a 200 second delay when trying to edit things (which also freezes
>>>> moin completely for everyone else, yay), it's best to to with confluence
>>>> for the wiki part.
>>>>
>>>> As for web site, there's the choice between a static site where we just
>>>> have a pubsub system (you commit html to svn or git and it gets
>>>> published), or we can have a build bot generate the site with whatever
>>>> tech we want and just commit the...markdown/rst/whatever docs we use,
>>>> kind'a like GitHub pages etc.
>>>>
>>>> So, to sum up:
>>>> - CMS: NO
>>>> - Moin Wiki: NO
>>>> - Confluence: POSSIBLE
>>>> - Static web site: POSSIBLE
>>>> - Dynamic site via buildbot/jenkins: POSSIBLE
>>>>
>>>> With regards,
>>>> Daniel.
>>
>>
>
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing lists)
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
OK, great.
Though before using something like that, just discussing in the way we're
doing, i.e,, feeling things out as we're currently doing, is a pretty good
thing.
Gj
On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 10/06/2016 02:26 PM, Anael Mobilia wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > How these questions should be solved ?
> >
> > We need every people migrating from *netbeans.org mailing-list to say
> > yes or no on the mailing-list (high volume of mail)
> >
> > Is there any "votation" tool usually used on the ASF ?
>
> We have a STEvE instance (see steve.apache.org for details) if we need
> to perform votes, this can be any sort of vote.
>
> >
> > ... indeed, how to have "the" voice of the community for all theses
> > important changes ?
> >
> > As a netcat tester, I remember some survey to decide for netbeans (not)
> > launching.
> > IMHO, it should be a great tool to have the "vox populi" :-)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Anael
> >
> > Le 2016-10-06 12:11, Daniel Gruno a écrit :
> >
> >> [...]
> >> Nope, nope, nope. We do not support adding new projects to the CMS
> >> currently. And the moin wiki is sadly terrible by design, so unless we
> >> want a 200 second delay when trying to edit things (which also freezes
> >> moin completely for everyone else, yay), it's best to to with confluence
> >> for the wiki part.
> >>
> >> As for web site, there's the choice between a static site where we just
> >> have a pubsub system (you commit html to svn or git and it gets
> >> published), or we can have a build bot generate the site with whatever
> >> tech we want and just commit the...markdown/rst/whatever docs we use,
> >> kind'a like GitHub pages etc.
> >>
> >> So, to sum up:
> >> - CMS: NO
> >> - Moin Wiki: NO
> >> - Confluence: POSSIBLE
> >> - Static web site: POSSIBLE
> >> - Dynamic site via buildbot/jenkins: POSSIBLE
> >>
> >> With regards,
> >> Daniel.
>
>
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing lists)
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
In general:
Steve is mostly for anonymous votes. Let’s just stick with VOTE threads [1] which is the standard mechanism at the ASF.
More specifically: what would you like to vote for?
Did I understand you correct that you like to give the subscribers to the netbeans.org lists a vote whether they like to get merged over to this very list`
If so, what is the difference if a person from the netbeans.org mail votes on Steve vs sends a subscribe mail to the new list?
It’s effectively takes the same time imo.
LieGrue,
strub
[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
> Am 06.10.2016 um 14:29 schrieb Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>:
>
> On 10/06/2016 02:26 PM, Anael Mobilia wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> How these questions should be solved ?
>>
>> We need every people migrating from *netbeans.org mailing-list to say
>> yes or no on the mailing-list (high volume of mail)
>>
>> Is there any "votation" tool usually used on the ASF ?
>
> We have a STEvE instance (see steve.apache.org for details) if we need
> to perform votes, this can be any sort of vote.
>
>>
>> ... indeed, how to have "the" voice of the community for all theses
>> important changes ?
>>
>> As a netcat tester, I remember some survey to decide for netbeans (not)
>> launching.
>> IMHO, it should be a great tool to have the "vox populi" :-)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Anael
>>
>> Le 2016-10-06 12:11, Daniel Gruno a écrit :
>>
>>> [...]
>>> Nope, nope, nope. We do not support adding new projects to the CMS
>>> currently. And the moin wiki is sadly terrible by design, so unless we
>>> want a 200 second delay when trying to edit things (which also freezes
>>> moin completely for everyone else, yay), it's best to to with confluence
>>> for the wiki part.
>>>
>>> As for web site, there's the choice between a static site where we just
>>> have a pubsub system (you commit html to svn or git and it gets
>>> published), or we can have a build bot generate the site with whatever
>>> tech we want and just commit the...markdown/rst/whatever docs we use,
>>> kind'a like GitHub pages etc.
>>>
>>> So, to sum up:
>>> - CMS: NO
>>> - Moin Wiki: NO
>>> - Confluence: POSSIBLE
>>> - Static web site: POSSIBLE
>>> - Dynamic site via buildbot/jenkins: POSSIBLE
>>>
>>> With regards,
>>> Daniel.
>
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing
lists)
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 10/06/2016 02:26 PM, Anael Mobilia wrote:
> Hello,
>
> How these questions should be solved ?
>
> We need every people migrating from *netbeans.org mailing-list to say
> yes or no on the mailing-list (high volume of mail)
>
> Is there any "votation" tool usually used on the ASF ?
We have a STEvE instance (see steve.apache.org for details) if we need
to perform votes, this can be any sort of vote.
>
> ... indeed, how to have "the" voice of the community for all theses
> important changes ?
>
> As a netcat tester, I remember some survey to decide for netbeans (not)
> launching.
> IMHO, it should be a great tool to have the "vox populi" :-)
>
> Regards,
> Anael
>
> Le 2016-10-06 12:11, Daniel Gruno a �crit :
>
>> [...]
>> Nope, nope, nope. We do not support adding new projects to the CMS
>> currently. And the moin wiki is sadly terrible by design, so unless we
>> want a 200 second delay when trying to edit things (which also freezes
>> moin completely for everyone else, yay), it's best to to with confluence
>> for the wiki part.
>>
>> As for web site, there's the choice between a static site where we just
>> have a pubsub system (you commit html to svn or git and it gets
>> published), or we can have a build bot generate the site with whatever
>> tech we want and just commit the...markdown/rst/whatever docs we use,
>> kind'a like GitHub pages etc.
>>
>> So, to sum up:
>> - CMS: NO
>> - Moin Wiki: NO
>> - Confluence: POSSIBLE
>> - Static web site: POSSIBLE
>> - Dynamic site via buildbot/jenkins: POSSIBLE
>>
>> With regards,
>> Daniel.
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing lists)
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
In Apache, I think things are solved by discussing them via e-mails until a
general agreement is reached. I think that works quite well. The
differences between different ideas are quite small, I think, at least so
far.
Gj
On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Anael Mobilia <an...@anael.eu> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> How these questions should be solved ?
>
> We need every people migrating from *netbeans.org mailing-list to say
> yes or no on the mailing-list (high volume of mail)
>
> Is there any "votation" tool usually used on the ASF ?
>
> ... indeed, how to have "the" voice of the community for all theses
> important changes ?
>
> As a netcat tester, I remember some survey to decide for netbeans (not)
> launching.
> IMHO, it should be a great tool to have the "vox populi" :-)
>
> Regards,
> Anael
>
> Le 2016-10-06 12:11, Daniel Gruno a écrit :
>
> > [...]
> > Nope, nope, nope. We do not support adding new projects to the CMS
> > currently. And the moin wiki is sadly terrible by design, so unless we
> > want a 200 second delay when trying to edit things (which also freezes
> > moin completely for everyone else, yay), it's best to to with confluence
> > for the wiki part.
> >
> > As for web site, there's the choice between a static site where we just
> > have a pubsub system (you commit html to svn or git and it gets
> > published), or we can have a build bot generate the site with whatever
> > tech we want and just commit the...markdown/rst/whatever docs we use,
> > kind'a like GitHub pages etc.
> >
> > So, to sum up:
> > - CMS: NO
> > - Moin Wiki: NO
> > - Confluence: POSSIBLE
> > - Static web site: POSSIBLE
> > - Dynamic site via buildbot/jenkins: POSSIBLE
> >
> > With regards,
> > Daniel.
>
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing
lists)
Posted by Anael Mobilia <an...@anael.eu>.
Hello,
How these questions should be solved ?
We need every people migrating from *netbeans.org mailing-list to say
yes or no on the mailing-list (high volume of mail)
Is there any "votation" tool usually used on the ASF ?
... indeed, how to have "the" voice of the community for all theses
important changes ?
As a netcat tester, I remember some survey to decide for netbeans (not)
launching.
IMHO, it should be a great tool to have the "vox populi" :-)
Regards,
Anael
Le 2016-10-06 12:11, Daniel Gruno a �crit :
> [...]
> Nope, nope, nope. We do not support adding new projects to the CMS
> currently. And the moin wiki is sadly terrible by design, so unless we
> want a 200 second delay when trying to edit things (which also freezes
> moin completely for everyone else, yay), it's best to to with confluence
> for the wiki part.
>
> As for web site, there's the choice between a static site where we just
> have a pubsub system (you commit html to svn or git and it gets
> published), or we can have a build bot generate the site with whatever
> tech we want and just commit the...markdown/rst/whatever docs we use,
> kind'a like GitHub pages etc.
>
> So, to sum up:
> - CMS: NO
> - Moin Wiki: NO
> - Confluence: POSSIBLE
> - Static web site: POSSIBLE
> - Dynamic site via buildbot/jenkins: POSSIBLE
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing lists)
Posted by Wade Chandler <co...@wadechandler.com>.
Yes, even with the "static" there will undoubtedly be dynamically generated
content we need, so as long as we can do that. Daily javadocs updates by
the builds is necessary IMO. Too, for releases, we will want to automate as
much as possible. So long as we make sure this is known and doable with
whatever being used, then great; partial static and dynamic.
Thanks
Wade
On Oct 6, 2016 6:30 AM, "Geertjan Wielenga" <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Whatever works for other Apache projects should work for NetBeans too. I
> think your (and other Infra folks or other Apache folks) recommendation,
> i.e., what will work best, might be the best thing to do. Personally, I
> like the sound of a static website with pubsub via git would be fine.
>
> Would this also be where/how the tutorials would be published? Currently,
> we have netbeans.org where the more formalized documentation, e.g.,
> tutorials and other outward info goes, and the NetBeans Wiki which is more
> rough and unpolished like most Wikis.
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On 10/06/2016 11:23 AM, Emmanuel Lécharny wrote:
> > > Le 06/10/16 à 10:31, Bertrand Delacretaz a écrit :
> > >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Geertjan Wielenga
> > >> <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >>> ...We need to set up the Wiki with as the first item to address in
> > detail is a
> > >>> community-driven transition plan, with what we want to move, when, in
> > what
> > >>> order, etc....
> > >> Agreed, we can just request that but we need to select between
> > >> MoinMoin and Confluence, examples:
> > >>
> > >> http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/FrontPage
> > >>
> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SLING/Index
> > >>
> > >> We're using Confluence in the projects where I'm active and it works
> > >> well but it's IMO becoming more and more bloated with every release,
> > >> whereas MoinMoin is simpler and more lightweight.
> > >>
> > >> If NetBeans has existing wiki content to migrate we might also look at
> > >> which migration path is easier.
> > >>
> > >> -Bertrand
> > >
> > > You can also stop using a wiki, and switch to the Apache CMS system
> > > (http://www.apache.org/dev/cms
> > >
> > > Ok, it requires a bit of work, but it's quite efficient. It's not a
> wiki
> > > per se, but editing a page and pushing it can be done through the
> > > browser. More important : you can't lose anything if you work with the
> > > pages on your disk ! (who has never lost hours of work because
> > > Confluence had a bump in the raod ?)
> > >
> >
> > Nope, nope, nope. We do not support adding new projects to the CMS
> > currently. And the moin wiki is sadly terrible by design, so unless we
> > want a 200 second delay when trying to edit things (which also freezes
> > moin completely for everyone else, yay), it's best to to with confluence
> > for the wiki part.
> >
> > As for web site, there's the choice between a static site where we just
> > have a pubsub system (you commit html to svn or git and it gets
> > published), or we can have a build bot generate the site with whatever
> > tech we want and just commit the...markdown/rst/whatever docs we use,
> > kind'a like GitHub pages etc.
> >
> > So, to sum up:
> > - CMS: NO
> > - Moin Wiki: NO
> > - Confluence: POSSIBLE
> > - Static web site: POSSIBLE
> > - Dynamic site via buildbot/jenkins: POSSIBLE
> >
> > With regards,
> > Daniel.
> >
>
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing lists)
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Whatever works for other Apache projects should work for NetBeans too. I
think your (and other Infra folks or other Apache folks) recommendation,
i.e., what will work best, might be the best thing to do. Personally, I
like the sound of a static website with pubsub via git would be fine.
Would this also be where/how the tutorials would be published? Currently,
we have netbeans.org where the more formalized documentation, e.g.,
tutorials and other outward info goes, and the NetBeans Wiki which is more
rough and unpolished like most Wikis.
Gj
On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 10/06/2016 11:23 AM, Emmanuel Lécharny wrote:
> > Le 06/10/16 à 10:31, Bertrand Delacretaz a écrit :
> >> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Geertjan Wielenga
> >> <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>> ...We need to set up the Wiki with as the first item to address in
> detail is a
> >>> community-driven transition plan, with what we want to move, when, in
> what
> >>> order, etc....
> >> Agreed, we can just request that but we need to select between
> >> MoinMoin and Confluence, examples:
> >>
> >> http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/FrontPage
> >>
> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SLING/Index
> >>
> >> We're using Confluence in the projects where I'm active and it works
> >> well but it's IMO becoming more and more bloated with every release,
> >> whereas MoinMoin is simpler and more lightweight.
> >>
> >> If NetBeans has existing wiki content to migrate we might also look at
> >> which migration path is easier.
> >>
> >> -Bertrand
> >
> > You can also stop using a wiki, and switch to the Apache CMS system
> > (http://www.apache.org/dev/cms
> >
> > Ok, it requires a bit of work, but it's quite efficient. It's not a wiki
> > per se, but editing a page and pushing it can be done through the
> > browser. More important : you can't lose anything if you work with the
> > pages on your disk ! (who has never lost hours of work because
> > Confluence had a bump in the raod ?)
> >
>
> Nope, nope, nope. We do not support adding new projects to the CMS
> currently. And the moin wiki is sadly terrible by design, so unless we
> want a 200 second delay when trying to edit things (which also freezes
> moin completely for everyone else, yay), it's best to to with confluence
> for the wiki part.
>
> As for web site, there's the choice between a static site where we just
> have a pubsub system (you commit html to svn or git and it gets
> published), or we can have a build bot generate the site with whatever
> tech we want and just commit the...markdown/rst/whatever docs we use,
> kind'a like GitHub pages etc.
>
> So, to sum up:
> - CMS: NO
> - Moin Wiki: NO
> - Confluence: POSSIBLE
> - Static web site: POSSIBLE
> - Dynamic site via buildbot/jenkins: POSSIBLE
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing lists)
Posted by Hermien Pellissier <mi...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
> So, to sum up:
> - CMS: NO
> - Moin Wiki: NO
> - Confluence: POSSIBLE
> - Static web site: POSSIBLE
> - Dynamic site via buildbot/jenkins: POSSIBLE
My preference in terms of the wiki is Confluence anyway. More visually
appealing than Moin Wiki, and it leaves open the possibility of
integrating between Jira and Confluence in the future.
The existing wiki [1] is powered by MediaWiki. A quick search revealed
that there are possibilities to migrate to Confluence, but it seems
that people have had mixed results.
[1] http://wiki.netbeans.org/
~ Hermien
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing lists)
Posted by David Heffelfinger <dh...@gmail.com>.
I kind of like the idea of a static web site as well, but whatever you guys
decide will be fine with me.
David
On Oct 6, 2016 7:01 AM, "Emmanuel Lécharny" <el...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Le 06/10/16 à 12:11, Daniel Gruno a écrit :
> > On 10/06/2016 11:23 AM, Emmanuel Lécharny wrote:
> >> Le 06/10/16 à 10:31, Bertrand Delacretaz a écrit :
> >>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Geertjan Wielenga
> >>> <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>>> ...We need to set up the Wiki with as the first item to address in
> detail is a
> >>>> community-driven transition plan, with what we want to move, when, in
> what
> >>>> order, etc....
> >>> Agreed, we can just request that but we need to select between
> >>> MoinMoin and Confluence, examples:
> >>>
> >>> http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/FrontPage
> >>>
> >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SLING/Index
> >>>
> >>> We're using Confluence in the projects where I'm active and it works
> >>> well but it's IMO becoming more and more bloated with every release,
> >>> whereas MoinMoin is simpler and more lightweight.
> >>>
> >>> If NetBeans has existing wiki content to migrate we might also look at
> >>> which migration path is easier.
> >>>
> >>> -Bertrand
> >> You can also stop using a wiki, and switch to the Apache CMS system
> >> (http://www.apache.org/dev/cms
> >>
> >> Ok, it requires a bit of work, but it's quite efficient. It's not a wiki
> >> per se, but editing a page and pushing it can be done through the
> >> browser. More important : you can't lose anything if you work with the
> >> pages on your disk ! (who has never lost hours of work because
> >> Confluence had a bump in the raod ?)
> >>
> > Nope, nope, nope. We do not support adding new projects to the CMS
> > currently.
> That's a sad news ...
>
> > And the moin wiki is sadly terrible by design, so unless we
> > want a 200 second delay when trying to edit things (which also freezes
> > moin completely for everyone else, yay), it's best to to with confluence
> > for the wiki part.
>
> :/
>
>
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing
lists)
Posted by Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>.
Le 06/10/16 � 12:11, Daniel Gruno a �crit :
> On 10/06/2016 11:23 AM, Emmanuel L�charny wrote:
>> Le 06/10/16 � 10:31, Bertrand Delacretaz a �crit :
>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Geertjan Wielenga
>>> <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>> ...We need to set up the Wiki with as the first item to address in detail is a
>>>> community-driven transition plan, with what we want to move, when, in what
>>>> order, etc....
>>> Agreed, we can just request that but we need to select between
>>> MoinMoin and Confluence, examples:
>>>
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/FrontPage
>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SLING/Index
>>>
>>> We're using Confluence in the projects where I'm active and it works
>>> well but it's IMO becoming more and more bloated with every release,
>>> whereas MoinMoin is simpler and more lightweight.
>>>
>>> If NetBeans has existing wiki content to migrate we might also look at
>>> which migration path is easier.
>>>
>>> -Bertrand
>> You can also stop using a wiki, and switch to the Apache CMS system
>> (http://www.apache.org/dev/cms
>>
>> Ok, it requires a bit of work, but it's quite efficient. It's not a wiki
>> per se, but editing a page and pushing it can be done through the
>> browser. More important : you can't lose anything if you work with the
>> pages on your disk ! (who has never lost hours of work because
>> Confluence had a bump in the raod ?)
>>
> Nope, nope, nope. We do not support adding new projects to the CMS
> currently.
That's a sad news ...
> And the moin wiki is sadly terrible by design, so unless we
> want a 200 second delay when trying to edit things (which also freezes
> moin completely for everyone else, yay), it's best to to with confluence
> for the wiki part.
:/
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing
lists)
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 10/06/2016 11:23 AM, Emmanuel L�charny wrote:
> Le 06/10/16 � 10:31, Bertrand Delacretaz a �crit :
>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Geertjan Wielenga
>> <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> ...We need to set up the Wiki with as the first item to address in detail is a
>>> community-driven transition plan, with what we want to move, when, in what
>>> order, etc....
>> Agreed, we can just request that but we need to select between
>> MoinMoin and Confluence, examples:
>>
>> http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/FrontPage
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SLING/Index
>>
>> We're using Confluence in the projects where I'm active and it works
>> well but it's IMO becoming more and more bloated with every release,
>> whereas MoinMoin is simpler and more lightweight.
>>
>> If NetBeans has existing wiki content to migrate we might also look at
>> which migration path is easier.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>
> You can also stop using a wiki, and switch to the Apache CMS system
> (http://www.apache.org/dev/cms
>
> Ok, it requires a bit of work, but it's quite efficient. It's not a wiki
> per se, but editing a page and pushing it can be done through the
> browser. More important : you can't lose anything if you work with the
> pages on your disk ! (who has never lost hours of work because
> Confluence had a bump in the raod ?)
>
Nope, nope, nope. We do not support adding new projects to the CMS
currently. And the moin wiki is sadly terrible by design, so unless we
want a 200 second delay when trying to edit things (which also freezes
moin completely for everyone else, yay), it's best to to with confluence
for the wiki part.
As for web site, there's the choice between a static site where we just
have a pubsub system (you commit html to svn or git and it gets
published), or we can have a build bot generate the site with whatever
tech we want and just commit the...markdown/rst/whatever docs we use,
kind'a like GitHub pages etc.
So, to sum up:
- CMS: NO
- Moin Wiki: NO
- Confluence: POSSIBLE
- Static web site: POSSIBLE
- Dynamic site via buildbot/jenkins: POSSIBLE
With regards,
Daniel.
Re: Wiki setup (was: The various Apache NetBeans (incubating) mailing
lists)
Posted by Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>.
Le 06/10/16 � 10:31, Bertrand Delacretaz a �crit :
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> ...We need to set up the Wiki with as the first item to address in detail is a
>> community-driven transition plan, with what we want to move, when, in what
>> order, etc....
> Agreed, we can just request that but we need to select between
> MoinMoin and Confluence, examples:
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/FrontPage
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SLING/Index
>
> We're using Confluence in the projects where I'm active and it works
> well but it's IMO becoming more and more bloated with every release,
> whereas MoinMoin is simpler and more lightweight.
>
> If NetBeans has existing wiki content to migrate we might also look at
> which migration path is easier.
>
> -Bertrand
You can also stop using a wiki, and switch to the Apache CMS system
(http://www.apache.org/dev/cms
Ok, it requires a bit of work, but it's quite efficient. It's not a wiki
per se, but editing a page and pushing it can be done through the
browser. More important : you can't lose anything if you work with the
pages on your disk ! (who has never lost hours of work because
Confluence had a bump in the raod ?)