You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@esme.apache.org by Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> on 2010/09/08 12:41:28 UTC
Filters / actions
Ray Wang just wrote an interesting blog about activity streams /
filters - http://blog.softwareinsider.org/2010/08/30/mondays-musings-why-next-gen-apps-must-improve-existing-activity-streams/
Reminds me of our actions.
By the way, I had lunch with David Pollack during my vacation and we
talked about a related idea of his - I've been trying to find time to
write about it here but I have been under water doing other stuff. It
is on my list ....
D.
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> 1. A wizard-based UI for setting up actions (we can keep the
>>> expert-mode, but I think we need a guided way to set these up)
>>
>> lift has a new wizard framework - maybe we should take a look at that
>
> My thoughts exactly :-)
>
>> There are also some things missing that Ray mentions (like location.)
>> I've been thinking about have an action test that looks at a message
>> meta-data - we could probably cover a lot with that - I don't exactly
>> what sort of syntax would be necessary (XPath?)
>
> Regarding location, my preference would be to canonicalize the way
> that ESME stores location data in the metadata. We could just do it in
> the web client and document it, basically saying, "If you want to
> store location data in a way that ESME knows about, do it this way,
> and if you want to store it some other way in the metadata, that's
> fine too."
look at the twitter annotations for 'place' for a good foundation :
http://dev.twitter.com/pages/annotations_overview
>
> Regarding actions that filter arbitrarily based on metadata, the
> metadata isn't necessarily XML so XPath would be of limited use. In
> the discussion a couple months ago we stopped short of deciding on the
> structure of the metadata, so it is hard to say how we would allow
> filtering it. It's probably a discussion we should finish first,
> before deciding on location or filtering.
Agreed
>
> Ethan
>
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 1. A wizard-based UI for setting up actions (we can keep the
>> expert-mode, but I think we need a guided way to set these up)
>
> lift has a new wizard framework - maybe we should take a look at that
My thoughts exactly :-)
> There are also some things missing that Ray mentions (like location.)
> I've been thinking about have an action test that looks at a message
> meta-data - we could probably cover a lot with that - I don't exactly
> what sort of syntax would be necessary (XPath?)
Regarding location, my preference would be to canonicalize the way
that ESME stores location data in the metadata. We could just do it in
the web client and document it, basically saying, "If you want to
store location data in a way that ESME knows about, do it this way,
and if you want to store it some other way in the metadata, that's
fine too."
Regarding actions that filter arbitrarily based on metadata, the
metadata isn't necessarily XML so XPath would be of limited use. In
the discussion a couple months ago we stopped short of deciding on the
structure of the metadata, so it is hard to say how we would allow
filtering it. It's probably a discussion we should finish first,
before deciding on location or filtering.
Ethan
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Interesting post. I agree that our actions get us part-way there from
> a functionality standpoint. It seems to me that the biggest challenge
> for users of our actions right now is that they are really a very
> expert-oriented UI. I'd like to see a couple of things done around the
> actions UI, pretty much in line with part of what Ray writes about:
>
> 1. A wizard-based UI for setting up actions (we can keep the
> expert-mode, but I think we need a guided way to set these up)
lift has a new wizard framework - maybe we should take a look at that
>
> 2. Real-time feedback on what messages a test will catch, based on
> user's current timeline (kind of like the Gmail filter UI). I realize
> that this will probably be difficult and might be performance
> intensive, so it should probably wait. Though I think it will be OK if
> we just do the test on the user's mailbox, right?
This a good idea but I have no idea how it / if world really work.
>
> 3. Restore the help text explaining the allowed syntax to the expert
> view - it seems to have disappeared.
I've thought about this and it might be easy to create larger tool
tips with the missing details. Definitely doable for 1.2
>
> Do you think that gets us further towards what Ray is talking about?
There are also some things missing that Ray mentions (like location.)
I've been thinking about have an action test that looks at a message
meta-data - we could probably cover a lot with that - I don't exactly
what sort of syntax would be necessary (XPath?)
>
> Ethan
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ray Wang just wrote an interesting blog about activity streams /
>> filters - http://blog.softwareinsider.org/2010/08/30/mondays-musings-why-next-gen-apps-must-improve-existing-activity-streams/
>>
>> Reminds me of our actions.
>>
>> By the way, I had lunch with David Pollack during my vacation and we
>> talked about a related idea of his - I've been trying to find time to
>> write about it here but I have been under water doing other stuff. It
>> is on my list ....
>>
>> D.
>>
>
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Anne Kathrine Petterøe <yo...@gmail.com>.
Ok, sounds good to me.
On 10 September 2010 19:17, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd probably just take the text from the old help page and just have
> the help icon next to the label
>
> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > How much text will we have?
> > And where exactly would you have the tooltip?
> >
> >
> > On 10 September 2010 08:49, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I was thinking of using something like this
> >>
> >> http://www.expbuilder.com/testpages/helptooltip/
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
> >> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hahah the jquery site is down for maintenance.
> >> > It is basically the same kind of dialogue windows we already use, in
> this
> >> > case they would display text only.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 8 September 2010 22:35, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> do you have a link - I haven't found anything
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
> >> >> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > Just some simple jquery interaction overlay.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 8 September 2010 22:24, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> what sort of a overlay are you talking about?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
> >> >> >> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> > Wouldn't an overlay maybe be better (because of the amount of
> >> text)?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > On 8 September 2010 15:23, Richard Hirsch <
> hirsch.dick@gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Vassil Dichev <
> vdichev@apache.org
> >> >
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > The help screen used to be on a separate tab for a while,
> which
> >> is
> >> >> >> >> > also not very useful- it helps to look at it while you're
> >> composing
> >> >> >> >> > the action. Otherwise the action text fields are pretty
> useless
> >> >> even
> >> >> >> >> > if you're familiar with actions, because you always tend to
> >> forget
> >> >> >> >> > some of the syntax.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I was thinking of a tool tip that displays the basic syntax
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>.
I'd probably just take the text from the old help page and just have
the help icon next to the label
On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
<yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How much text will we have?
> And where exactly would you have the tooltip?
>
>
> On 10 September 2010 08:49, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was thinking of using something like this
>>
>> http://www.expbuilder.com/testpages/helptooltip/
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
>> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hahah the jquery site is down for maintenance.
>> > It is basically the same kind of dialogue windows we already use, in this
>> > case they would display text only.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 8 September 2010 22:35, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> do you have a link - I haven't found anything
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
>> >> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Just some simple jquery interaction overlay.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 8 September 2010 22:24, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> what sort of a overlay are you talking about?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
>> >> >> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > Wouldn't an overlay maybe be better (because of the amount of
>> text)?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On 8 September 2010 15:23, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Vassil Dichev <vdichev@apache.org
>> >
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > The help screen used to be on a separate tab for a while, which
>> is
>> >> >> >> > also not very useful- it helps to look at it while you're
>> composing
>> >> >> >> > the action. Otherwise the action text fields are pretty useless
>> >> even
>> >> >> >> > if you're familiar with actions, because you always tend to
>> forget
>> >> >> >> > some of the syntax.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I was thinking of a tool tip that displays the basic syntax
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Anne Kathrine Petterøe <yo...@gmail.com>.
How much text will we have?
And where exactly would you have the tooltip?
On 10 September 2010 08:49, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was thinking of using something like this
>
> http://www.expbuilder.com/testpages/helptooltip/
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hahah the jquery site is down for maintenance.
> > It is basically the same kind of dialogue windows we already use, in this
> > case they would display text only.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8 September 2010 22:35, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> do you have a link - I haven't found anything
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
> >> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Just some simple jquery interaction overlay.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 8 September 2010 22:24, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> what sort of a overlay are you talking about?
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
> >> >> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > Wouldn't an overlay maybe be better (because of the amount of
> text)?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 8 September 2010 15:23, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Vassil Dichev <vdichev@apache.org
> >
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> > The help screen used to be on a separate tab for a while, which
> is
> >> >> >> > also not very useful- it helps to look at it while you're
> composing
> >> >> >> > the action. Otherwise the action text fields are pretty useless
> >> even
> >> >> >> > if you're familiar with actions, because you always tend to
> forget
> >> >> >> > some of the syntax.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I was thinking of a tool tip that displays the basic syntax
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>.
I was thinking of using something like this
http://www.expbuilder.com/testpages/helptooltip/
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
<yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hahah the jquery site is down for maintenance.
> It is basically the same kind of dialogue windows we already use, in this
> case they would display text only.
>
>
>
> On 8 September 2010 22:35, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> do you have a link - I haven't found anything
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
>> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Just some simple jquery interaction overlay.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 8 September 2010 22:24, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> what sort of a overlay are you talking about?
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
>> >> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Wouldn't an overlay maybe be better (because of the amount of text)?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 8 September 2010 15:23, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > The help screen used to be on a separate tab for a while, which is
>> >> >> > also not very useful- it helps to look at it while you're composing
>> >> >> > the action. Otherwise the action text fields are pretty useless
>> even
>> >> >> > if you're familiar with actions, because you always tend to forget
>> >> >> > some of the syntax.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I was thinking of a tool tip that displays the basic syntax
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Anne Kathrine Petterøe <yo...@gmail.com>.
Hahah the jquery site is down for maintenance.
It is basically the same kind of dialogue windows we already use, in this
case they would display text only.
On 8 September 2010 22:35, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> do you have a link - I haven't found anything
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Just some simple jquery interaction overlay.
> >
> >
> > On 8 September 2010 22:24, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> what sort of a overlay are you talking about?
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
> >> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Wouldn't an overlay maybe be better (because of the amount of text)?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 8 September 2010 15:23, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> > The help screen used to be on a separate tab for a while, which is
> >> >> > also not very useful- it helps to look at it while you're composing
> >> >> > the action. Otherwise the action text fields are pretty useless
> even
> >> >> > if you're familiar with actions, because you always tend to forget
> >> >> > some of the syntax.
> >> >>
> >> >> I was thinking of a tool tip that displays the basic syntax
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>.
do you have a link - I haven't found anything
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
<yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just some simple jquery interaction overlay.
>
>
> On 8 September 2010 22:24, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> what sort of a overlay are you talking about?
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
>> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Wouldn't an overlay maybe be better (because of the amount of text)?
>> >
>> >
>> > On 8 September 2010 15:23, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> > The help screen used to be on a separate tab for a while, which is
>> >> > also not very useful- it helps to look at it while you're composing
>> >> > the action. Otherwise the action text fields are pretty useless even
>> >> > if you're familiar with actions, because you always tend to forget
>> >> > some of the syntax.
>> >>
>> >> I was thinking of a tool tip that displays the basic syntax
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Anne Kathrine Petterøe <yo...@gmail.com>.
Just some simple jquery interaction overlay.
On 8 September 2010 22:24, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> what sort of a overlay are you talking about?
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
> <yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Wouldn't an overlay maybe be better (because of the amount of text)?
> >
> >
> > On 8 September 2010 15:23, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> > The help screen used to be on a separate tab for a while, which is
> >> > also not very useful- it helps to look at it while you're composing
> >> > the action. Otherwise the action text fields are pretty useless even
> >> > if you're familiar with actions, because you always tend to forget
> >> > some of the syntax.
> >>
> >> I was thinking of a tool tip that displays the basic syntax
> >>
> >
>
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>.
what sort of a overlay are you talking about?
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Anne Kathrine Petterøe
<yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wouldn't an overlay maybe be better (because of the amount of text)?
>
>
> On 8 September 2010 15:23, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > The help screen used to be on a separate tab for a while, which is
>> > also not very useful- it helps to look at it while you're composing
>> > the action. Otherwise the action text fields are pretty useless even
>> > if you're familiar with actions, because you always tend to forget
>> > some of the syntax.
>>
>> I was thinking of a tool tip that displays the basic syntax
>>
>
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Anne Kathrine Petterøe <yo...@gmail.com>.
Wouldn't an overlay maybe be better (because of the amount of text)?
On 8 September 2010 15:23, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org> wrote:
> > The help screen used to be on a separate tab for a while, which is
> > also not very useful- it helps to look at it while you're composing
> > the action. Otherwise the action text fields are pretty useless even
> > if you're familiar with actions, because you always tend to forget
> > some of the syntax.
>
> I was thinking of a tool tip that displays the basic syntax
>
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org> wrote:
> The help screen used to be on a separate tab for a while, which is
> also not very useful- it helps to look at it while you're composing
> the action. Otherwise the action text fields are pretty useless even
> if you're familiar with actions, because you always tend to forget
> some of the syntax.
I was thinking of a tool tip that displays the basic syntax
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org>.
Good points Ethan. I've already had similar thoughts about creating a
wizard, and might have mentioned it in the email. It will probably be
post-1.2 though.
The help screen used to be on a separate tab for a while, which is
also not very useful- it helps to look at it while you're composing
the action. Otherwise the action text fields are pretty useless even
if you're familiar with actions, because you always tend to forget
some of the syntax.
Vassil
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Interesting post. I agree that our actions get us part-way there from
> a functionality standpoint. It seems to me that the biggest challenge
> for users of our actions right now is that they are really a very
> expert-oriented UI. I'd like to see a couple of things done around the
> actions UI, pretty much in line with part of what Ray writes about:
>
> 1. A wizard-based UI for setting up actions (we can keep the
> expert-mode, but I think we need a guided way to set these up)
>
> 2. Real-time feedback on what messages a test will catch, based on
> user's current timeline (kind of like the Gmail filter UI). I realize
> that this will probably be difficult and might be performance
> intensive, so it should probably wait. Though I think it will be OK if
> we just do the test on the user's mailbox, right?
>
> 3. Restore the help text explaining the allowed syntax to the expert
> view - it seems to have disappeared.
>
> Do you think that gets us further towards what Ray is talking about?
>
> Ethan
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ray Wang just wrote an interesting blog about activity streams /
>> filters - http://blog.softwareinsider.org/2010/08/30/mondays-musings-why-next-gen-apps-must-improve-existing-activity-streams/
>>
>> Reminds me of our actions.
>>
>> By the way, I had lunch with David Pollack during my vacation and we
>> talked about a related idea of his - I've been trying to find time to
>> write about it here but I have been under water doing other stuff. It
>> is on my list ....
>>
>> D.
>>
>
Re: Filters / actions
Posted by Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>.
Interesting post. I agree that our actions get us part-way there from
a functionality standpoint. It seems to me that the biggest challenge
for users of our actions right now is that they are really a very
expert-oriented UI. I'd like to see a couple of things done around the
actions UI, pretty much in line with part of what Ray writes about:
1. A wizard-based UI for setting up actions (we can keep the
expert-mode, but I think we need a guided way to set these up)
2. Real-time feedback on what messages a test will catch, based on
user's current timeline (kind of like the Gmail filter UI). I realize
that this will probably be difficult and might be performance
intensive, so it should probably wait. Though I think it will be OK if
we just do the test on the user's mailbox, right?
3. Restore the help text explaining the allowed syntax to the expert
view - it seems to have disappeared.
Do you think that gets us further towards what Ray is talking about?
Ethan
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ray Wang just wrote an interesting blog about activity streams /
> filters - http://blog.softwareinsider.org/2010/08/30/mondays-musings-why-next-gen-apps-must-improve-existing-activity-streams/
>
> Reminds me of our actions.
>
> By the way, I had lunch with David Pollack during my vacation and we
> talked about a related idea of his - I've been trying to find time to
> write about it here but I have been under water doing other stuff. It
> is on my list ....
>
> D.
>