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Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by Berin Loritsch <bl...@citi-us.com> on 2002/12/03 14:28:23 UTC
Context is flawed, long live Context
I honestly have to say that the Context object in and of itself
is a flawed implementation. Don't get me wrong, the idea behind
it is wonderful. The problem with the whole Context concept is
that the Context is very dependent on its environment.
Concidering all the hubbub surrounding this one innocent looking
object, no-one can come to agreement on its best use. In order
to better understand how and when to use a Context we need to
look at other systems that have their own Context object. Those
include Servlets, Mailets, and Phoenix Context (AKA BlockContext).
Truth be told, we don't have a unified concept beyond we get
Objects by name out of it. The Phoenix variation exposes what
IMNSHO are dangerous services that no component should ever have
access to. However it shares a few things in common with Servlets,
but not Mailets. Same thing with the other two. There really is
only one thing that might be the same across all three--but that
is summed up in the current Context interface.
Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
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Re: Context is flawed, long live Context
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2002-12-03 at 15:31, Peter Donald wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:28, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
> > standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
> > the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
> > that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
> > Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
> > a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
> > container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
>
> Do I get to say I told you so yet ? ;)
not yet, you don't ;)
cheers,
- Leo
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Re: Context is flawed, long live Context
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2002-12-03 at 15:31, Peter Donald wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:28, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
> > standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
> > the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
> > that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
> > Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
> > a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
> > container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
>
> Do I get to say I told you so yet ? ;)
not yet, you don't ;)
cheers,
- Leo
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Re: Context is flawed, long live Context
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2002-12-03 at 15:31, Peter Donald wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:28, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
> > standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
> > the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
> > that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
> > Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
> > a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
> > container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
>
> Do I get to say I told you so yet ? ;)
not yet, you don't ;)
cheers,
- Leo
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Re: Context is flawed, long live Context
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:29, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@realityforge.org]
> >
> > On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:28, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > > Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
> > > standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
> > > the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
> > > that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
> > > Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
> > > a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
> > > container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
> >
> > Do I get to say I told you so yet ? ;)
>
> No, because history shows that you introduced Context.
Not quite - Context was here before I got here. I believe it predates
ComponentManager which was split out from it.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
*------------------------------------------------*
| Those who know how to think need no teachers. |
| - Gandhi |
*------------------------------------------------*
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Re: Context is flawed, long live Context
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:29, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@realityforge.org]
> >
> > On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:28, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > > Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
> > > standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
> > > the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
> > > that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
> > > Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
> > > a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
> > > container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
> >
> > Do I get to say I told you so yet ? ;)
>
> No, because history shows that you introduced Context.
Not quite - Context was here before I got here. I believe it predates
ComponentManager which was split out from it.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
*------------------------------------------------*
| Those who know how to think need no teachers. |
| - Gandhi |
*------------------------------------------------*
--
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Re: Context is flawed, long live Context
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:29, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@realityforge.org]
> >
> > On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:28, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > > Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
> > > standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
> > > the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
> > > that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
> > > Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
> > > a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
> > > container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
> >
> > Do I get to say I told you so yet ? ;)
>
> No, because history shows that you introduced Context.
Not quite - Context was here before I got here. I believe it predates
ComponentManager which was split out from it.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
*------------------------------------------------*
| Those who know how to think need no teachers. |
| - Gandhi |
*------------------------------------------------*
--
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RE: Context is flawed, long live Context
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@citi-us.com>.
> From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@realityforge.org]
>
> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:28, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
> > standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
> > the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
> > that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
> > Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
> > a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
> > container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
>
> Do I get to say I told you so yet ? ;)
No, because history shows that you introduced Context.
BTW, the "I told you so" remarks do not help to build
community. Can you tell yourself "so"?
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RE: Context is flawed, long live Context
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@citi-us.com>.
> From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@realityforge.org]
>
> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:28, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
> > standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
> > the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
> > that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
> > Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
> > a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
> > container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
>
> Do I get to say I told you so yet ? ;)
No, because history shows that you introduced Context.
BTW, the "I told you so" remarks do not help to build
community. Can you tell yourself "so"?
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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RE: Context is flawed, long live Context
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@citi-us.com>.
> From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@realityforge.org]
>
> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:28, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
> > standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
> > the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
> > that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
> > Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
> > a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
> > container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
>
> Do I get to say I told you so yet ? ;)
No, because history shows that you introduced Context.
BTW, the "I told you so" remarks do not help to build
community. Can you tell yourself "so"?
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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Re: Context is flawed, long live Context
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:28, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
> standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
> the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
> that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
> Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
> a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
> container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
Do I get to say I told you so yet ? ;)
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
*------------------------------------------------------*
| "Religion is what the common people see as true, the |
| wise people see as false, and the rulers see as |
| useful" --Seneca |
*------------------------------------------------------*
--
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Re: Context is flawed, long live Context
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:28, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
> standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
> the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
> that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
> Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
> a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
> container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
Do I get to say I told you so yet ? ;)
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
*------------------------------------------------------*
| "Religion is what the common people see as true, the |
| wise people see as false, and the rulers see as |
| useful" --Seneca |
*------------------------------------------------------*
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Context is flawed, long live Context
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:28, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Truth be told, the best we can do with Avalon's context is define
> standards for what information gets bound in there. That will be
> the Avalon context. There are other application specific components
> that follow a different model from Avalon--examples include EJBs,
> Servlets, and Axis components (web services). Each of those need
> a container for their components that is domain specific. The new
> container needs to be extensible enough to satisfy them.
Do I get to say I told you so yet ? ;)
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
*------------------------------------------------------*
| "Religion is what the common people see as true, the |
| wise people see as false, and the rulers see as |
| useful" --Seneca |
*------------------------------------------------------*
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>