ofbiz with no JavaScript

[BJ Freeman <bj...@free-man.net>]

For sometime I have been promoting ofbiz to a larger Company.
it is National with headquarters in One City and Multiple manufacturing
and Assembly Plants in multiple States.
They use VPN to tie all together.

My contact was impressed in ofbiz I showed him on the Demo site, while
he was at home. He went to show others at work and it did not work well.
His Company has a security rule that does not allow any JavaScript into
their computers, as well all their internal websites can not use javascript.

You can See the results by disabling JavaScript in your browser and look
at the Ofbiz Demo.

I have been given to the end of Sept to come up with a proposal on
delivering the functionality but without JavaScript.
The staffing for doing this is an additional 10-20 positions for 1-5 years.

My problem is I have not found  enough people that:
1)Understand the Design of Ofbiz
2)Understand the Modeling used based on the videos David did
3)willing to work with the tools that was developed in Ofbiz.
4)Know Ofbiz well enough to reuse code already available.
5)be able to develop code that will do the what is done in JavaScript
but no use javascript.

This project is worth 100's thousand US dollars. Of that, I am willing
of use 10% to fund those working on the project to augment ofbiz in the
same spirit.

The focus of this email is maybe the ofbiz team should re-think the
direction OFbiz is going.

Re: ofbiz with no JavaScript

[BJ Freeman <bj...@free-man.net>]

Hi Ruth:
it seems like double work, but do first design everything using the
<handler name="ftl" type="view"
class="org.ofbiz.webapp.ftl.FreeMarkerViewHandler"/>
    <handler name="http" type="view"
class="org.ofbiz.webapp.view.HttpViewHandler"/>
along with widgets to created the functionality is my first Goal.
this of course would generate all HTML, that has no "routines" in it.

Then build output of any one of many other Handlers to generate the
output that is enhanced but changed in the controller view-map calls.

I have not come up with a way  to deactivate a specific view-map based
on  view-map.type


Ruth Hoffman sent the following on 9/3/2011 12:28 PM:
> Hi BJ:
> Just to give a little more info:
> 
> At one time the US Defense Department did not allow Javascript on its
> computers (as you describe below). Not sure if this is still a mandate.
> They also have a very strict accessibility requirement called Section
> 508 which details how web pages should be usable by visually impaired
> individuals. I know for a fact that Section 508 is still enforce and
> that OFBiz does not meet many those standards.
> 
> I'm wondering how HTML5 might help take up some of the slack?
> 
> Anyhow, I tend to agree with you. At the very least, all webpages should
> degrade "nicely" when Javascript is disabled.
> Best regards,
> Ruth
> 
> On 9/3/11 11:44 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>> For sometime I have been promoting ofbiz to a larger Company.
>> it is National with headquarters in One City and Multiple manufacturing
>> and Assembly Plants in multiple States.
>> They use VPN to tie all together.
>>
>> My contact was impressed in ofbiz I showed him on the Demo site, while
>> he was at home. He went to show others at work and it did not work well.
>> His Company has a security rule that does not allow any JavaScript into
>> their computers, as well all their internal websites can not use
>> javascript.
>>
>> You can See the results by disabling JavaScript in your browser and look
>> at the Ofbiz Demo.
>>
>> I have been given to the end of Sept to come up with a proposal on
>> delivering the functionality but without JavaScript.
>> The staffing for doing this is an additional 10-20 positions for 1-5
>> years.
>>
>> My problem is I have not found  enough people that:
>> 1)Understand the Design of Ofbiz
>> 2)Understand the Modeling used based on the videos David did
>> 3)willing to work with the tools that was developed in Ofbiz.
>> 4)Know Ofbiz well enough to reuse code already available.
>> 5)be able to develop code that will do the what is done in JavaScript
>> but no use javascript.
>>
>> This project is worth 100's thousand US dollars. Of that, I am willing
>> of use 10% to fund those working on the project to augment ofbiz in the
>> same spirit.
>>
>> The focus of this email is maybe the ofbiz team should re-think the
>> direction OFbiz is going.
>>
> 

Re: ofbiz with no JavaScript

[BJ Freeman <bj...@free-man.net>]

Thanks
I am busy doing a Design review of the complete ofbiz finding all the
commits that need to be revised.
I put the original of this email thread in the Jira. Will put what you
have in the Jira in my project manager to track resources needed.

Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 9/4/2011 4:23 AM:
> I think you could reopen and start from
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4120 (see also subtasks)
> 
> My last comments were a bit disenchanted...
> 
> Jacques
> 
> From: "BJ Freeman" <bj...@free-man.net>
>> things like Sticky keys and Ctrl+ to increase fonts is provided in the
>> browser.
>> At 70 it seems the Type is getting smaller :)
>>
>> I understand about enabling Javascript as you described.
>> the probem is the functionality goes away since JavaScript,  does not
>> use the rendering.
>>
>>
>>
>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 9/3/2011 12:54 PM:
>>> The requirement is not that strict as far as I can tell:
>>>
>>> http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?fuseAction=stdsdoc#Web
>>>
>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is intended to be used by visually impaired
>>> users. Also, the last time I checked, our screen renderers check to see
>>> if JavaScript is enabled, and if not they produce alternate markup.
>>>
>>> I have a screen reader installed on my development machine and I use it
>>> now and then to test the OFBiz UI. I also test the UI by putting my
>>> mouse in a drawer to force myself to use only the keyboard. I find that
>>> OFBiz is still usable under those conditions.
>>>
>>> If anyone would like to contribute modifications to bring OFBiz into
>>> compliance with US Defense Department Section 508, all they need to do
>>> is submit patches to Jira and I would be happy to review them.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> On 9/3/2011 8:28 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote:
>>>> Hi BJ:
>>>> Just to give a little more info:
>>>>
>>>> At one time the US Defense Department did not allow Javascript on its
>>>> computers (as you describe below). Not sure if this is still a
>>>> mandate. They also have a very strict accessibility requirement called
>>>> Section 508 which details how web pages should be usable by visually
>>>> impaired individuals. I know for a fact that Section 508 is still
>>>> enforce and that OFBiz does not meet many those standards.
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering how HTML5 might help take up some of the slack?
>>>>
>>>> Anyhow, I tend to agree with you. At the very least, all webpages
>>>> should degrade "nicely" when Javascript is disabled.
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Ruth
>>>>
>>>> On 9/3/11 11:44 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>> For sometime I have been promoting ofbiz to a larger Company.
>>>>> it is National with headquarters in One City and Multiple
>>>>> manufacturing
>>>>> and Assembly Plants in multiple States.
>>>>> They use VPN to tie all together.
>>>>>
>>>>> My contact was impressed in ofbiz I showed him on the Demo site, while
>>>>> he was at home. He went to show others at work and it did not work
>>>>> well.
>>>>> His Company has a security rule that does not allow any JavaScript
>>>>> into
>>>>> their computers, as well all their internal websites can not use
>>>>> javascript.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can See the results by disabling JavaScript in your browser and
>>>>> look
>>>>> at the Ofbiz Demo.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been given to the end of Sept to come up with a proposal on
>>>>> delivering the functionality but without JavaScript.
>>>>> The staffing for doing this is an additional 10-20 positions for 1-5
>>>>> years.
>>>>>
>>>>> My problem is I have not found  enough people that:
>>>>> 1)Understand the Design of Ofbiz
>>>>> 2)Understand the Modeling used based on the videos David did
>>>>> 3)willing to work with the tools that was developed in Ofbiz.
>>>>> 4)Know Ofbiz well enough to reuse code already available.
>>>>> 5)be able to develop code that will do the what is done in JavaScript
>>>>> but no use javascript.
>>>>>
>>>>> This project is worth 100's thousand US dollars. Of that, I am willing
>>>>> of use 10% to fund those working on the project to augment ofbiz in
>>>>> the
>>>>> same spirit.
>>>>>
>>>>> The focus of this email is maybe the ofbiz team should re-think the
>>>>> direction OFbiz is going.
>>>>>
>>>
> 
> 

Re: ofbiz with no JavaScript

[Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>]

I think you could reopen and start from https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4120 (see also subtasks)

My last comments were a bit disenchanted...

Jacques

From: "BJ Freeman" <bj...@free-man.net>
> things like Sticky keys and Ctrl+ to increase fonts is provided in the
> browser.
> At 70 it seems the Type is getting smaller :)
> 
> I understand about enabling Javascript as you described.
> the probem is the functionality goes away since JavaScript,  does not
> use the rendering.
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian Crum sent the following on 9/3/2011 12:54 PM:
>> The requirement is not that strict as far as I can tell:
>> 
>> http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?fuseAction=stdsdoc#Web
>> 
>> The Flat Grey visual theme is intended to be used by visually impaired
>> users. Also, the last time I checked, our screen renderers check to see
>> if JavaScript is enabled, and if not they produce alternate markup.
>> 
>> I have a screen reader installed on my development machine and I use it
>> now and then to test the OFBiz UI. I also test the UI by putting my
>> mouse in a drawer to force myself to use only the keyboard. I find that
>> OFBiz is still usable under those conditions.
>> 
>> If anyone would like to contribute modifications to bring OFBiz into
>> compliance with US Defense Department Section 508, all they need to do
>> is submit patches to Jira and I would be happy to review them.
>> 
>> -Adrian
>> 
>> On 9/3/2011 8:28 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote:
>>> Hi BJ:
>>> Just to give a little more info:
>>>
>>> At one time the US Defense Department did not allow Javascript on its
>>> computers (as you describe below). Not sure if this is still a
>>> mandate. They also have a very strict accessibility requirement called
>>> Section 508 which details how web pages should be usable by visually
>>> impaired individuals. I know for a fact that Section 508 is still
>>> enforce and that OFBiz does not meet many those standards.
>>>
>>> I'm wondering how HTML5 might help take up some of the slack?
>>>
>>> Anyhow, I tend to agree with you. At the very least, all webpages
>>> should degrade "nicely" when Javascript is disabled.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Ruth
>>>
>>> On 9/3/11 11:44 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>> For sometime I have been promoting ofbiz to a larger Company.
>>>> it is National with headquarters in One City and Multiple manufacturing
>>>> and Assembly Plants in multiple States.
>>>> They use VPN to tie all together.
>>>>
>>>> My contact was impressed in ofbiz I showed him on the Demo site, while
>>>> he was at home. He went to show others at work and it did not work well.
>>>> His Company has a security rule that does not allow any JavaScript into
>>>> their computers, as well all their internal websites can not use
>>>> javascript.
>>>>
>>>> You can See the results by disabling JavaScript in your browser and look
>>>> at the Ofbiz Demo.
>>>>
>>>> I have been given to the end of Sept to come up with a proposal on
>>>> delivering the functionality but without JavaScript.
>>>> The staffing for doing this is an additional 10-20 positions for 1-5
>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> My problem is I have not found  enough people that:
>>>> 1)Understand the Design of Ofbiz
>>>> 2)Understand the Modeling used based on the videos David did
>>>> 3)willing to work with the tools that was developed in Ofbiz.
>>>> 4)Know Ofbiz well enough to reuse code already available.
>>>> 5)be able to develop code that will do the what is done in JavaScript
>>>> but no use javascript.
>>>>
>>>> This project is worth 100's thousand US dollars. Of that, I am willing
>>>> of use 10% to fund those working on the project to augment ofbiz in the
>>>> same spirit.
>>>>
>>>> The focus of this email is maybe the ofbiz team should re-think the
>>>> direction OFbiz is going.
>>>>
>>

Re: ofbiz with no JavaScript

[BJ Freeman <bj...@free-man.net>]

things like Sticky keys and Ctrl+ to increase fonts is provided in the
browser.
At 70 it seems the Type is getting smaller :)

I understand about enabling Javascript as you described.
the probem is the functionality goes away since JavaScript,  does not
use the rendering.



Adrian Crum sent the following on 9/3/2011 12:54 PM:
> The requirement is not that strict as far as I can tell:
> 
> http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?fuseAction=stdsdoc#Web
> 
> The Flat Grey visual theme is intended to be used by visually impaired
> users. Also, the last time I checked, our screen renderers check to see
> if JavaScript is enabled, and if not they produce alternate markup.
> 
> I have a screen reader installed on my development machine and I use it
> now and then to test the OFBiz UI. I also test the UI by putting my
> mouse in a drawer to force myself to use only the keyboard. I find that
> OFBiz is still usable under those conditions.
> 
> If anyone would like to contribute modifications to bring OFBiz into
> compliance with US Defense Department Section 508, all they need to do
> is submit patches to Jira and I would be happy to review them.
> 
> -Adrian
> 
> On 9/3/2011 8:28 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote:
>> Hi BJ:
>> Just to give a little more info:
>>
>> At one time the US Defense Department did not allow Javascript on its
>> computers (as you describe below). Not sure if this is still a
>> mandate. They also have a very strict accessibility requirement called
>> Section 508 which details how web pages should be usable by visually
>> impaired individuals. I know for a fact that Section 508 is still
>> enforce and that OFBiz does not meet many those standards.
>>
>> I'm wondering how HTML5 might help take up some of the slack?
>>
>> Anyhow, I tend to agree with you. At the very least, all webpages
>> should degrade "nicely" when Javascript is disabled.
>> Best regards,
>> Ruth
>>
>> On 9/3/11 11:44 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>> For sometime I have been promoting ofbiz to a larger Company.
>>> it is National with headquarters in One City and Multiple manufacturing
>>> and Assembly Plants in multiple States.
>>> They use VPN to tie all together.
>>>
>>> My contact was impressed in ofbiz I showed him on the Demo site, while
>>> he was at home. He went to show others at work and it did not work well.
>>> His Company has a security rule that does not allow any JavaScript into
>>> their computers, as well all their internal websites can not use
>>> javascript.
>>>
>>> You can See the results by disabling JavaScript in your browser and look
>>> at the Ofbiz Demo.
>>>
>>> I have been given to the end of Sept to come up with a proposal on
>>> delivering the functionality but without JavaScript.
>>> The staffing for doing this is an additional 10-20 positions for 1-5
>>> years.
>>>
>>> My problem is I have not found  enough people that:
>>> 1)Understand the Design of Ofbiz
>>> 2)Understand the Modeling used based on the videos David did
>>> 3)willing to work with the tools that was developed in Ofbiz.
>>> 4)Know Ofbiz well enough to reuse code already available.
>>> 5)be able to develop code that will do the what is done in JavaScript
>>> but no use javascript.
>>>
>>> This project is worth 100's thousand US dollars. Of that, I am willing
>>> of use 10% to fund those working on the project to augment ofbiz in the
>>> same spirit.
>>>
>>> The focus of this email is maybe the ofbiz team should re-think the
>>> direction OFbiz is going.
>>>
> 

Re: ofbiz with no JavaScript

[Adrian Crum <ad...@sandglass-software.com>]

The requirement is not that strict as far as I can tell:

http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?fuseAction=stdsdoc#Web

The Flat Grey visual theme is intended to be used by visually impaired 
users. Also, the last time I checked, our screen renderers check to see 
if JavaScript is enabled, and if not they produce alternate markup.

I have a screen reader installed on my development machine and I use it 
now and then to test the OFBiz UI. I also test the UI by putting my 
mouse in a drawer to force myself to use only the keyboard. I find that 
OFBiz is still usable under those conditions.

If anyone would like to contribute modifications to bring OFBiz into 
compliance with US Defense Department Section 508, all they need to do 
is submit patches to Jira and I would be happy to review them.

-Adrian

On 9/3/2011 8:28 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote:
> Hi BJ:
> Just to give a little more info:
>
> At one time the US Defense Department did not allow Javascript on its 
> computers (as you describe below). Not sure if this is still a 
> mandate. They also have a very strict accessibility requirement called 
> Section 508 which details how web pages should be usable by visually 
> impaired individuals. I know for a fact that Section 508 is still 
> enforce and that OFBiz does not meet many those standards.
>
> I'm wondering how HTML5 might help take up some of the slack?
>
> Anyhow, I tend to agree with you. At the very least, all webpages 
> should degrade "nicely" when Javascript is disabled.
> Best regards,
> Ruth
>
> On 9/3/11 11:44 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>> For sometime I have been promoting ofbiz to a larger Company.
>> it is National with headquarters in One City and Multiple manufacturing
>> and Assembly Plants in multiple States.
>> They use VPN to tie all together.
>>
>> My contact was impressed in ofbiz I showed him on the Demo site, while
>> he was at home. He went to show others at work and it did not work well.
>> His Company has a security rule that does not allow any JavaScript into
>> their computers, as well all their internal websites can not use 
>> javascript.
>>
>> You can See the results by disabling JavaScript in your browser and look
>> at the Ofbiz Demo.
>>
>> I have been given to the end of Sept to come up with a proposal on
>> delivering the functionality but without JavaScript.
>> The staffing for doing this is an additional 10-20 positions for 1-5 
>> years.
>>
>> My problem is I have not found  enough people that:
>> 1)Understand the Design of Ofbiz
>> 2)Understand the Modeling used based on the videos David did
>> 3)willing to work with the tools that was developed in Ofbiz.
>> 4)Know Ofbiz well enough to reuse code already available.
>> 5)be able to develop code that will do the what is done in JavaScript
>> but no use javascript.
>>
>> This project is worth 100's thousand US dollars. Of that, I am willing
>> of use 10% to fund those working on the project to augment ofbiz in the
>> same spirit.
>>
>> The focus of this email is maybe the ofbiz team should re-think the
>> direction OFbiz is going.
>>

Re: ofbiz with no JavaScript

[Ruth Hoffman <rh...@aesolves.com>]

Hi BJ:
Just to give a little more info:

At one time the US Defense Department did not allow Javascript on its 
computers (as you describe below). Not sure if this is still a mandate. 
They also have a very strict accessibility requirement called Section 
508 which details how web pages should be usable by visually impaired 
individuals. I know for a fact that Section 508 is still enforce and 
that OFBiz does not meet many those standards.

I'm wondering how HTML5 might help take up some of the slack?

Anyhow, I tend to agree with you. At the very least, all webpages should 
degrade "nicely" when Javascript is disabled.
Best regards,
Ruth

On 9/3/11 11:44 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:
> For sometime I have been promoting ofbiz to a larger Company.
> it is National with headquarters in One City and Multiple manufacturing
> and Assembly Plants in multiple States.
> They use VPN to tie all together.
>
> My contact was impressed in ofbiz I showed him on the Demo site, while
> he was at home. He went to show others at work and it did not work well.
> His Company has a security rule that does not allow any JavaScript into
> their computers, as well all their internal websites can not use javascript.
>
> You can See the results by disabling JavaScript in your browser and look
> at the Ofbiz Demo.
>
> I have been given to the end of Sept to come up with a proposal on
> delivering the functionality but without JavaScript.
> The staffing for doing this is an additional 10-20 positions for 1-5 years.
>
> My problem is I have not found  enough people that:
> 1)Understand the Design of Ofbiz
> 2)Understand the Modeling used based on the videos David did
> 3)willing to work with the tools that was developed in Ofbiz.
> 4)Know Ofbiz well enough to reuse code already available.
> 5)be able to develop code that will do the what is done in JavaScript
> but no use javascript.
>
> This project is worth 100's thousand US dollars. Of that, I am willing
> of use 10% to fund those working on the project to augment ofbiz in the
> same spirit.
>
> The focus of this email is maybe the ofbiz team should re-think the
> direction OFbiz is going.
>