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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by Jerry Ford <je...@katzenjammer.us> on 2002/12/18 23:09:09 UTC
[off-topic] Re: jsps and servlets don't work
/***********************************
*
* Caution: LONG Rant Warning :)
*
**********************************/
Turner, John wrote:
>I don't think they are poorly documented at all. Just the HOWTOs written by
>myself and others on this list alone provide comprehensive documentation.
>
>
John:
// begin rant:
With all due respect and recognition to the enormous efforts you
personally appear to have put into making Tomcat accessible, the
documentation is neither comprehensive nor adequate, for either Tomcat
or whatever is the connector du jour. There are pockets of good
documentation, such as your how-tos and seemingly tireless presence on
this mail list, surrounded by lots of chaffe---incomplete, inaccurate,
out-of-date, even non-existent files inside of tarballs or littered
around the jakarta.apache.org website.
I don't mean to rag on you, or the Apache group.
I know it's all free software and, though it may not sound like it, I am
an appreciative fan, now that I have stumbled onto this list and located
your how-to page.
But I've spent a lot of time fruitlessly searching the
jakarta.apache.org website for answers to my questions and I have found
the doc set taken as a whole to be contradictory, poorly organized, and
in some cases downright misleading.
If you have any pull with the development team, IMHO, you ought to ask
them give the website a thorough going over, removing old, out of date
stuff (if mod_webapp and mod_jk are deprecated, why are they included in
the connectors tarball with nothing in the READMEs to suggest they are
out of date?) and updating whats left so that the entire doc set
accurately reflects the current state of the software.
// end rant :)
Jerry
>My point was that Tomcat is free, and it is developed in the open source
>model. That means the quickest way to get your suggestions implemented is
>to do them yourself.
>
>The source for the ApacheConfig class is in the Tomcat source bundle, where
>it should be. The package name is the same name as used in server.xml.
>
>Please keep in mind that the ApacheConfig class is a convenience feature,
>and is not a core feature of Tomcat. The fact that it is there at all is
>gravy, not a requirement, and more a feature of connector development than
>Tomcat development.
>
>John
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Joseph Shraibman [mailto:jks@selectacast.net]
>>Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 3:02 PM
>>To: Tomcat Users List
>>Subject: Re: jsps and servlets don't work
>>
>>
>>How can I patch if I can't even figure out how to set it up?
>>Tomat and mod_jk are very
>>poorly documented. I'm not even sure where the source to the
>>autogenerator is.
>>
>>Turner, John wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Maybe so. Seems pretty straightforward to me. I'm sure
>>>
>>>
>>the dev team would
>>
>>
>>>welcome a patch.
>>>
>>>Since the dev team is focusing on JK2, and ApacheConfig
>>>
>>>
>>only works for JK,
>>
>>
>>>I'm not sure they will give it much attention. Worth a
>>>
>>>
>>shot, though.
>>
>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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>
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Re: Tomcat Documentation WAS: jsps and servlets don't work
Posted by Jerry Ford <je...@katzenjammer.us>.
Rasputin wrote:
>* Joseph Shraibman <jk...@selectacast.net> [1233 03:33]:
>
>
>
>>Jerry Ford wrote:
>>
>>
>>>With all due respect and recognition to the enormous efforts you
>>>personally appear to have put into making Tomcat accessible, the
>>>documentation is neither comprehensive nor adequate, for either Tomcat
>>>or whatever is the connector du jour. There are pockets of good
>>>documentation, such as your how-tos and seemingly tireless presence on
>>>this mail list, surrounded by lots of chaffe---incomplete, inaccurate,
>>>out-of-date, even non-existent files inside of tarballs or littered
>>>around the jakarta.apache.org website.
>>>
>>>
>
>Definitely. But at the end of the day this is an Open Source project.
>If people don't want to write documentation, they won't, and there's not
>a lot you can do to persuade them.
>I'm not playing the 'use the source Luke' card, I'm just telling you
>how it is. In my experience of Open Source projects, all ranting does
>is getting you killfiled.
>
>
That is the last thing I want. :)
I still need help and hope to get answers to my questions when I plunge
back in and try to get a working mod_jk.
And really, I do understand how open source works, and how nobody is
obligated to document to my standards. And I also hear John when he
says "put up or shut up."
Since I can't "put up" until I know more and can make it work on my own
damn machine, I'll shut up now (until I start posting the Qs).
Jerry
>The real fix for this is to put the website docs into CVS and let people
>send patches. Then people who like writing documentation can write docs,
>and the coders can get on with coding.
>
>Maybe it's already in CVS. I couldn't find any docum... oh :D
>
>Craig (or anyone), do we have an address to recieve doc patches?
>
>
>
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Re: Tomcat Documentation WAS: jsps and servlets don't work
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Rasputin wrote:
> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:59:37 +0000
> From: Rasputin <ra...@idoru.mine.nu>
> Reply-To: Tomcat Users List <to...@jakarta.apache.org>,
> Rasputin <ra...@idoru.mine.nu>
> To: Tomcat Users List <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Tomcat Documentation WAS: jsps and servlets don't work
>
> * Joseph Shraibman <jk...@selectacast.net> [1233 03:33]:
>
> > Jerry Ford wrote:
> > >With all due respect and recognition to the enormous efforts you
> > >personally appear to have put into making Tomcat accessible, the
> > >documentation is neither comprehensive nor adequate, for either Tomcat
> > >or whatever is the connector du jour. There are pockets of good
> > >documentation, such as your how-tos and seemingly tireless presence on
> > >this mail list, surrounded by lots of chaffe---incomplete, inaccurate,
> > >out-of-date, even non-existent files inside of tarballs or littered
> > >around the jakarta.apache.org website.
>
> Definitely. But at the end of the day this is an Open Source project.
> If people don't want to write documentation, they won't, and there's not
> a lot you can do to persuade them.
> I'm not playing the 'use the source Luke' card, I'm just telling you
> how it is. In my experience of Open Source projects, all ranting does
> is getting you killfiled.
>
> The real fix for this is to put the website docs into CVS and let people
> send patches. Then people who like writing documentation can write docs,
> and the coders can get on with coding.
>
It's already there :-). The source code for the Tomcat documentation pages
is in the "webapps/tomcat-docs" subdirectory of the source distribution.
Nearly all of it is XML, and there's an XSLT stylesheet used to transform
it into the HTML that you actually read. The Ant build.xml file in this
directory uses Ant's <style> task to actually perform the transformation.
> Maybe it's already in CVS. I couldn't find any docum... oh :D
>
> Craig (or anyone), do we have an address to recieve doc patches?
>
Same as for code-related bug reports and patches:
http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/
Use category "Webapps:Documentation" for documentation bugs.
Craig
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Re: Tomcat Documentation WAS: jsps and servlets don't work
Posted by Rasputin <ra...@idoru.mine.nu>.
* Joseph Shraibman <jk...@selectacast.net> [1233 03:33]:
> Jerry Ford wrote:
> >With all due respect and recognition to the enormous efforts you
> >personally appear to have put into making Tomcat accessible, the
> >documentation is neither comprehensive nor adequate, for either Tomcat
> >or whatever is the connector du jour. There are pockets of good
> >documentation, such as your how-tos and seemingly tireless presence on
> >this mail list, surrounded by lots of chaffe---incomplete, inaccurate,
> >out-of-date, even non-existent files inside of tarballs or littered
> >around the jakarta.apache.org website.
Definitely. But at the end of the day this is an Open Source project.
If people don't want to write documentation, they won't, and there's not
a lot you can do to persuade them.
I'm not playing the 'use the source Luke' card, I'm just telling you
how it is. In my experience of Open Source projects, all ranting does
is getting you killfiled.
The real fix for this is to put the website docs into CVS and let people
send patches. Then people who like writing documentation can write docs,
and the coders can get on with coding.
Maybe it's already in CVS. I couldn't find any docum... oh :D
Craig (or anyone), do we have an address to recieve doc patches?
--
Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
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Tomcat Documentation WAS: jsps and servlets don't work
Posted by Joseph Shraibman <jk...@selectacast.net>.
Jerry Ford wrote:
>
> With all due respect and recognition to the enormous efforts you
> personally appear to have put into making Tomcat accessible, the
> documentation is neither comprehensive nor adequate, for either Tomcat
> or whatever is the connector du jour. There are pockets of good
> documentation, such as your how-tos and seemingly tireless presence on
> this mail list, surrounded by lots of chaffe---incomplete, inaccurate,
> out-of-date, even non-existent files inside of tarballs or littered
> around the jakarta.apache.org website.
>
I have to agree. Someone on this mailing list said that jk2 is beta. You say jk is
deprecated. All I know is I got mod_jk to work, but couldn't get jk2 to work because the
documentation was so bad. I didn't even know what the JkMount directive took, so I
couldn't figure out that ajp13 needed to be replaced with the name of my worker. As a
starting point there should be nice documentation for the conf directives like the ones
found at http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/ for those modules.
Among the things I can't find:
*) A list of properties to set in the workers.properties (and workers2.properties)
*) A list of conf directives (see above) for mod_jk and mod_jk2
*) A list of valves available in tomcat (besides the ones listed in the tomcat javadocs,
which are now up again, are there more?)
*) Besides valves there is no list of available Engines and Loggers and a whole bunch of
other great things that are out there. I found that putting some of the Loggers in my
server.xml broken the auto-generator for no apparent reason. I don't know why I have to
include:
<Realm className="org.apache.catalina.realm.UserDatabaseRealm"
debug="0" resourceName="UserDatabase"/>
or the autogeneration fails.
> I don't mean to rag on you, or the Apache group.
ditto
>
> I know it's all free software and, though it may not sound like it, I am
> an appreciative fan, now that I have stumbled onto this list and located
> your how-to page.
> But I've spent a lot of time fruitlessly searching the
> jakarta.apache.org website for answers to my questions and I have found
> the doc set taken as a whole to be contradictory, poorly organized, and
> in some cases downright misleading.
>
ditto. Especially since jk contains refrences to jk2, which really confuse me. For example
when I start tomcat I see in catalina.out:
INFO: Jk running ID=0 time=3/219 config=/usr/local/tomcat/conf/jk2.properties
... and I have no idea why jk would be accessing jk2.properties, or what I can set in there.
>
>
>> My point was that Tomcat is free, and it is developed in the open source
>> model. That means the quickest way to get your suggestions
>> implemented is
>> to do them yourself.
But in order to do that, I first need to have a basic knowledge of how things work, which
I currently don't. And I can't log into bugzilla to post patches (who do I mail for that?)
>>
>> The source for the ApacheConfig class is in the Tomcat source bundle,
>> where
>> it should be.
But I thought it should have been in the mod_jk tarball, which has a build.xml file but no
java code. Like I said I am confused. In fact there are all sorts of directories in that
tarball (and especially in mod_jk2) that serve no purpose I can see, besides native.
Tomcat is a mess. I'm just upgrading from jserv now, and I thought it would take a day or
two. It has already taken a week.
And btw what is the official status of webapp, jk, and jk2?
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