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Posted to soap-user@ws.apache.org by William Brogden <wb...@bga.com> on 2000/12/11 16:17:00 UTC
Sun And SOAP
Sun just did an announcement about their support for XML
and business to business messaging and Java - SOAP was
conspicuously absent!
For example - the ebXML project
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/mproject/
I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
inside information about SUN's intentions?
--
WBB - wbrogden@lanw.com
Java Cert mock exams http://www.lanw.com/java/javacert/
Author of Java Developer's Guide to Servlets and JSP
ISBN 0-7821-2809-2
RE: Sun And SOAP
Posted by Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>.
1. Are WSDL and ebXML competing technologies ??
You can't directly compare WSDL and ebXML any better than you can compare
SOAP and ebXML. WSDL is to ebXML as a carborator is to a car. WSDL describes
a Web Services interface. ebXML describes a framework for international
trade. As part of the framework, ebXML has a mechanism that describes a
business interface, which is similar to but not the same as a Web Service
interface. An ebXML business interface specifies the contents of the
messages that need to be exchanged. Messages can contain both XML and
non-XML data. The business interface also describes other information
necessary to support business transactions.
2. Sun is a member or UDDI .. does it necessarily mean that
sun supports WSDL ?? I understand that the present UDDI specs does not
mention anything about WSDL but is there an effort to include it in near
future ??
Sun currently has no official position on WSDL.
Sun is a member of the UDDI Working Group, but WSDL is not part of UDDI.
According to the current UDDI specs, a UDDI registry doesn't specify an
actual Web Service interface. UDDI includes four types of information:
- White Pages: basic information about an organization such as name and
contact information
- Yellow Pages: a taxonomy that describes the types of business and services
in the registry
- Green Pages: a Web Service description, including a description of the
business process and a programming specification
- Service Type Registration: a common type for many service instances -- the
service type indicates things like what protocol is used to communicate with
services of this service type.
Conceivably, a WSDL interface definition could be included in a green pages
entry, but in many cases, a green pages entry will point to a URL or another
more detailed repository, which will provide the detailed information you
need to interface with the service (namespace, schema, service interface,
trade party agreements, etc.)
Regards,
Anne
-----Original Message-----
From: Navaneeth [mailto:nkris2000@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 6:03 AM
To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: Sun And SOAP
Hi Anne,
Just have a few questions for you ...
Sorry if they are amateurish ..
1. Are WSDL and ebXML competing technologies ??
2. Sun is a member or UDDI .. does it necessarily mean that
sun supports WSDL ?? I understand that the present UDDI specs does not
mention anything about WSDL but is there an effort to include it in near
future ??
Regards,
Navaneeth
----- Original Message -----
From: Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>
To: <so...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:14 AM
Subject: RE: Sun And SOAP
> >William Brogden asked:
> >
> >I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
> >power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
> >inside information about SUN's intentions?
>
> For the record:
>
> - SOAP is not a factor in any "Sun/Microsoft power struggle".
>
> - Sun is not building an alternative to SOAP. Sun views SOAP as a useful,
> lightweight XML protocol. Sun recommends using SOAP where a lightweight
XML
> protocol is appropriate.
>
> - Sun is not building a SOAP implementation because we don't think we need
> two different SOAP implementations for Java. Sun recommends using the
Apache
> SOAP implementation, which is a very true implementation of the SOAP V1.1
> specification.
>
> - Sun and iPlanet are adding support for SOAP in a number of products. For
> example iPlanet Integration Server (formally known as Forte Fusion)
provides
> a SOAP adapter.
>
> - Sun is a member of the UDDI Working Group (see www.uddi.org), which is
> defining specifications for a Web Services registry. The UDDI V1
> specification defines SOAP APIs.
>
> - Sun is actively participating in the W3C XML Protocol (XP) Working
Group,
> which is defining a standard, extensible, XML protocol. (see
> http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/) The XP Working Group is using the SOAP 1.1
> specification as a starting point. (Note that the final W3C XP
> Recommendation will be different from SOAP 1.1).
>
> - Sun is also engaged in other XML activities. In particular, Sun is a
> leading contributor to the Electronic Business XML (ebXML) initiative (see
> www.ebxml.org). ebXML is a joint initiative of UN/CEFACT (the United
Nations
> standards body that created EDI) and OASIS. ebXML was established to
develop
> an internationally-recognized standard technical framework for
international
> trade. ebXML is defining specifications that will enable XML to be
utilized
> in a consistent manner for the exchange of all electronic business data. A
> primary objective of ebXML is to lower the barrier of entry to electronic
> business in order to facilitate international trade, particularly with
> respect to small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and developing
> nations. ebXML is being developed entirely in the public eye. The process
is
> open to anyone who wants to participate. Currently there are more than
1000
> companies, organizations, institutions, standards bodies, and individuals
> from all over the world participating in the effort. (see
> http://www.ebxml.org/participants/participants.htm)
>
> - ebXML does not compete with SOAP. ebXML is to a motor vehicle as SOAP is
> to tires. ebXML defines a set of specifications that addresses the entire
> scope of business to business ecommerce (for example, how to establish a
> trade party agreement, or how to process a multi-currency transaction).
SOAP
> defines a messaging protocol. ebXML focuses on a specific type of
> application (international trade). SOAP is a generic protocol that can be
> used for a wide variety of applications. ebXML is not likely to be used
for
> device-to-device communications, yet SOAP is being used as the transport
> within UPnP.
>
> - ebXML provides provisions for specified levels of quality of service
> (QoS). You can certainly build a QoS-enabled international trade framework
> on top of SOAP, but the point is, you really only want to build that
> framework once, and then you want to get the international trade community
> to adopt it. ebXML is being developed by the international trade
community.
> One project within ebXML is the Transport/Routing and Packaging (TRP)
> project. The ebXML TRP team has looked at SOAP V1.1 and determined that
the
> specification does not support certain technical requirements. For
example,
> ebXML has determined that business messages might need to contain XML
> fragments, complete XML documents, multiple documents, and/or non-XML
data.
> SOAP V1.1 only transports XML fragments (including CDATA). Given that SOAP
> is not an internationally recognized official standard, and that it
doesn't
> effectively support the ebXML technical requirements, ebXML TRP elected
not
> to adopt SOAP, and it defined a different messaging protocol that used
> multipart MIME headers. The ebXML TRP protocol is similar to HP's SOAP
> Messages with Attachments specification (see
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/general/soapattachspec.asp), which wasn't
> available when ebXML TRP was developing its spec.
>
> - Representatives from ebXML are participating in the W3C XP Working
Group.
> There is a strong desire among many of the W3C XP participants to ensure
> convergence of W3C XP and ebXML TRP. In time this discussion will likely
> become moot.
>
> Regards,
>
> Anne Thomas Manes
> Director Market Innovation
> Sun Microsystems
> atm@sun.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Brogden [mailto:wbrogden@bga.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:17 AM
> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Sun And SOAP
>
>
> Sun just did an announcement about their support for XML
> and business to business messaging and Java - SOAP was
> conspicuously absent!
>
> For example - the ebXML project
> http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/mproject/
>
> I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
> power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
> inside information about SUN's intentions?
>
> --
> WBB - wbrogden@lanw.com
> Java Cert mock exams http://www.lanw.com/java/javacert/
> Author of Java Developer's Guide to Servlets and JSP
> ISBN 0-7821-2809-2
>
>
RE: Sun And SOAP
Posted by Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>.
1. Are WSDL and ebXML competing technologies ??
You can't directly compare WSDL and ebXML any better than you can compare
SOAP and ebXML. WSDL is to ebXML as a carborator is to a car. WSDL describes
a Web Services interface. ebXML describes a framework for international
trade. As part of the framework, ebXML has a mechanism that describes a
business interface, which is similar to but not the same as a Web Service
interface. An ebXML business interface specifies the contents of the
messages that need to be exchanged. Messages can contain both XML and
non-XML data. The business interface also describes other information
necessary to support business transactions.
2. Sun is a member or UDDI .. does it necessarily mean that
sun supports WSDL ?? I understand that the present UDDI specs does not
mention anything about WSDL but is there an effort to include it in near
future ??
Sun currently has no official position on WSDL.
Sun is a member of the UDDI Working Group, but WSDL is not part of UDDI.
According to the current UDDI specs, a UDDI registry doesn't specify an
actual Web Service interface. UDDI includes four types of information:
- White Pages: basic information about an organization such as name and
contact information
- Yellow Pages: a taxonomy that describes the types of business and services
in the registry
- Green Pages: a Web Service description, including a description of the
business process and a programming specification
- Service Type Registration: a common type for many service instances -- the
service type indicates things like what protocol is used to communicate with
services of this service type.
Conceivably, a WSDL interface definition could be included in a green pages
entry, but in many cases, a green pages entry will point to a URL or another
more detailed repository, which will provide the detailed information you
need to interface with the service (namespace, schema, service interface,
trade party agreements, etc.)
Regards,
Anne
-----Original Message-----
From: Navaneeth [mailto:nkris2000@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 6:03 AM
To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: Sun And SOAP
Hi Anne,
Just have a few questions for you ...
Sorry if they are amateurish ..
1. Are WSDL and ebXML competing technologies ??
2. Sun is a member or UDDI .. does it necessarily mean that
sun supports WSDL ?? I understand that the present UDDI specs does not
mention anything about WSDL but is there an effort to include it in near
future ??
Regards,
Navaneeth
----- Original Message -----
From: Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>
To: <so...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:14 AM
Subject: RE: Sun And SOAP
> >William Brogden asked:
> >
> >I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
> >power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
> >inside information about SUN's intentions?
>
> For the record:
>
> - SOAP is not a factor in any "Sun/Microsoft power struggle".
>
> - Sun is not building an alternative to SOAP. Sun views SOAP as a useful,
> lightweight XML protocol. Sun recommends using SOAP where a lightweight
XML
> protocol is appropriate.
>
> - Sun is not building a SOAP implementation because we don't think we need
> two different SOAP implementations for Java. Sun recommends using the
Apache
> SOAP implementation, which is a very true implementation of the SOAP V1.1
> specification.
>
> - Sun and iPlanet are adding support for SOAP in a number of products. For
> example iPlanet Integration Server (formally known as Forte Fusion)
provides
> a SOAP adapter.
>
> - Sun is a member of the UDDI Working Group (see www.uddi.org), which is
> defining specifications for a Web Services registry. The UDDI V1
> specification defines SOAP APIs.
>
> - Sun is actively participating in the W3C XML Protocol (XP) Working
Group,
> which is defining a standard, extensible, XML protocol. (see
> http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/) The XP Working Group is using the SOAP 1.1
> specification as a starting point. (Note that the final W3C XP
> Recommendation will be different from SOAP 1.1).
>
> - Sun is also engaged in other XML activities. In particular, Sun is a
> leading contributor to the Electronic Business XML (ebXML) initiative (see
> www.ebxml.org). ebXML is a joint initiative of UN/CEFACT (the United
Nations
> standards body that created EDI) and OASIS. ebXML was established to
develop
> an internationally-recognized standard technical framework for
international
> trade. ebXML is defining specifications that will enable XML to be
utilized
> in a consistent manner for the exchange of all electronic business data. A
> primary objective of ebXML is to lower the barrier of entry to electronic
> business in order to facilitate international trade, particularly with
> respect to small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and developing
> nations. ebXML is being developed entirely in the public eye. The process
is
> open to anyone who wants to participate. Currently there are more than
1000
> companies, organizations, institutions, standards bodies, and individuals
> from all over the world participating in the effort. (see
> http://www.ebxml.org/participants/participants.htm)
>
> - ebXML does not compete with SOAP. ebXML is to a motor vehicle as SOAP is
> to tires. ebXML defines a set of specifications that addresses the entire
> scope of business to business ecommerce (for example, how to establish a
> trade party agreement, or how to process a multi-currency transaction).
SOAP
> defines a messaging protocol. ebXML focuses on a specific type of
> application (international trade). SOAP is a generic protocol that can be
> used for a wide variety of applications. ebXML is not likely to be used
for
> device-to-device communications, yet SOAP is being used as the transport
> within UPnP.
>
> - ebXML provides provisions for specified levels of quality of service
> (QoS). You can certainly build a QoS-enabled international trade framework
> on top of SOAP, but the point is, you really only want to build that
> framework once, and then you want to get the international trade community
> to adopt it. ebXML is being developed by the international trade
community.
> One project within ebXML is the Transport/Routing and Packaging (TRP)
> project. The ebXML TRP team has looked at SOAP V1.1 and determined that
the
> specification does not support certain technical requirements. For
example,
> ebXML has determined that business messages might need to contain XML
> fragments, complete XML documents, multiple documents, and/or non-XML
data.
> SOAP V1.1 only transports XML fragments (including CDATA). Given that SOAP
> is not an internationally recognized official standard, and that it
doesn't
> effectively support the ebXML technical requirements, ebXML TRP elected
not
> to adopt SOAP, and it defined a different messaging protocol that used
> multipart MIME headers. The ebXML TRP protocol is similar to HP's SOAP
> Messages with Attachments specification (see
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/general/soapattachspec.asp), which wasn't
> available when ebXML TRP was developing its spec.
>
> - Representatives from ebXML are participating in the W3C XP Working
Group.
> There is a strong desire among many of the W3C XP participants to ensure
> convergence of W3C XP and ebXML TRP. In time this discussion will likely
> become moot.
>
> Regards,
>
> Anne Thomas Manes
> Director Market Innovation
> Sun Microsystems
> atm@sun.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Brogden [mailto:wbrogden@bga.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:17 AM
> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Sun And SOAP
>
>
> Sun just did an announcement about their support for XML
> and business to business messaging and Java - SOAP was
> conspicuously absent!
>
> For example - the ebXML project
> http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/mproject/
>
> I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
> power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
> inside information about SUN's intentions?
>
> --
> WBB - wbrogden@lanw.com
> Java Cert mock exams http://www.lanw.com/java/javacert/
> Author of Java Developer's Guide to Servlets and JSP
> ISBN 0-7821-2809-2
>
>
Re: Sun And SOAP
Posted by Navaneeth <nk...@hotmail.com>.
Hi Anne,
Just have a few questions for you ...
Sorry if they are amateurish ..
1. Are WSDL and ebXML competing technologies ??
2. Sun is a member or UDDI .. does it necessarily mean that
sun supports WSDL ?? I understand that the present UDDI specs does not
mention anything about WSDL but is there an effort to include it in near
future ??
Regards,
Navaneeth
----- Original Message -----
From: Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>
To: <so...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:14 AM
Subject: RE: Sun And SOAP
> >William Brogden asked:
> >
> >I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
> >power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
> >inside information about SUN's intentions?
>
> For the record:
>
> - SOAP is not a factor in any "Sun/Microsoft power struggle".
>
> - Sun is not building an alternative to SOAP. Sun views SOAP as a useful,
> lightweight XML protocol. Sun recommends using SOAP where a lightweight
XML
> protocol is appropriate.
>
> - Sun is not building a SOAP implementation because we don't think we need
> two different SOAP implementations for Java. Sun recommends using the
Apache
> SOAP implementation, which is a very true implementation of the SOAP V1.1
> specification.
>
> - Sun and iPlanet are adding support for SOAP in a number of products. For
> example iPlanet Integration Server (formally known as Forte Fusion)
provides
> a SOAP adapter.
>
> - Sun is a member of the UDDI Working Group (see www.uddi.org), which is
> defining specifications for a Web Services registry. The UDDI V1
> specification defines SOAP APIs.
>
> - Sun is actively participating in the W3C XML Protocol (XP) Working
Group,
> which is defining a standard, extensible, XML protocol. (see
> http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/) The XP Working Group is using the SOAP 1.1
> specification as a starting point. (Note that the final W3C XP
> Recommendation will be different from SOAP 1.1).
>
> - Sun is also engaged in other XML activities. In particular, Sun is a
> leading contributor to the Electronic Business XML (ebXML) initiative (see
> www.ebxml.org). ebXML is a joint initiative of UN/CEFACT (the United
Nations
> standards body that created EDI) and OASIS. ebXML was established to
develop
> an internationally-recognized standard technical framework for
international
> trade. ebXML is defining specifications that will enable XML to be
utilized
> in a consistent manner for the exchange of all electronic business data. A
> primary objective of ebXML is to lower the barrier of entry to electronic
> business in order to facilitate international trade, particularly with
> respect to small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and developing
> nations. ebXML is being developed entirely in the public eye. The process
is
> open to anyone who wants to participate. Currently there are more than
1000
> companies, organizations, institutions, standards bodies, and individuals
> from all over the world participating in the effort. (see
> http://www.ebxml.org/participants/participants.htm)
>
> - ebXML does not compete with SOAP. ebXML is to a motor vehicle as SOAP is
> to tires. ebXML defines a set of specifications that addresses the entire
> scope of business to business ecommerce (for example, how to establish a
> trade party agreement, or how to process a multi-currency transaction).
SOAP
> defines a messaging protocol. ebXML focuses on a specific type of
> application (international trade). SOAP is a generic protocol that can be
> used for a wide variety of applications. ebXML is not likely to be used
for
> device-to-device communications, yet SOAP is being used as the transport
> within UPnP.
>
> - ebXML provides provisions for specified levels of quality of service
> (QoS). You can certainly build a QoS-enabled international trade framework
> on top of SOAP, but the point is, you really only want to build that
> framework once, and then you want to get the international trade community
> to adopt it. ebXML is being developed by the international trade
community.
> One project within ebXML is the Transport/Routing and Packaging (TRP)
> project. The ebXML TRP team has looked at SOAP V1.1 and determined that
the
> specification does not support certain technical requirements. For
example,
> ebXML has determined that business messages might need to contain XML
> fragments, complete XML documents, multiple documents, and/or non-XML
data.
> SOAP V1.1 only transports XML fragments (including CDATA). Given that SOAP
> is not an internationally recognized official standard, and that it
doesn't
> effectively support the ebXML technical requirements, ebXML TRP elected
not
> to adopt SOAP, and it defined a different messaging protocol that used
> multipart MIME headers. The ebXML TRP protocol is similar to HP's SOAP
> Messages with Attachments specification (see
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/general/soapattachspec.asp), which wasn't
> available when ebXML TRP was developing its spec.
>
> - Representatives from ebXML are participating in the W3C XP Working
Group.
> There is a strong desire among many of the W3C XP participants to ensure
> convergence of W3C XP and ebXML TRP. In time this discussion will likely
> become moot.
>
> Regards,
>
> Anne Thomas Manes
> Director Market Innovation
> Sun Microsystems
> atm@sun.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Brogden [mailto:wbrogden@bga.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:17 AM
> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Sun And SOAP
>
>
> Sun just did an announcement about their support for XML
> and business to business messaging and Java - SOAP was
> conspicuously absent!
>
> For example - the ebXML project
> http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/mproject/
>
> I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
> power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
> inside information about SUN's intentions?
>
> --
> WBB - wbrogden@lanw.com
> Java Cert mock exams http://www.lanw.com/java/javacert/
> Author of Java Developer's Guide to Servlets and JSP
> ISBN 0-7821-2809-2
>
>
Re: Sun And SOAP
Posted by Dave Ford <df...@smart-soft.com>.
<<SOAP is not a factor in any "Sun/Microsoft power struggle">>
Despite your comments. I don't believe this to be true!
When looking at section 2 of the ebXML TRP spec, which lists all of the
participants, I noticed that MS is the one company whose name is not on
there.
The developer community already has many ways to send messages across
process boundaries:
- IIOP
- JRMP
- DCOM
- SOAP
While they each may differ slightly in features, the bottom line is, we
don't need another protocol. We need consensus - and interoperability. All
apps will not be written in java. All apps will not be written with MS
products.
Thus, when yet another way to send messages comes up, in this case "ebXML
TRP", I believe the main questions that need to be addressed are:
How does this compare to, compete with or compliment existing messaging
technologies.
Why the need for yet another?
Why not use one of the existing?
Does MS support it?
These are questions that intelligent IT customers will ask. Yet Sun doesn't
address these issues. Not because they are unimportant, but because Sun
doesn't want to acknowledge SOAP, something that MS started.
The fact the JSR #000067 "Java APIs for XML Messaging 1.0" doesn't even
"mention" SOAP has everything to do with the "Sun/Microsoft power struggle".
For that matter, they don't mention RMI, CORBA or JMS either.
Why has Sun not created an API for sending and receiving SOAP messages? Here
was your answer:
"Sun is not building a SOAP implementation because we don't think we need
two different SOAP implementations for Java."
If this were true, why the need for two xml parsers: Sun's JAXP and Apache's
Xerces.
The real reason is, I believe, political: MS is pushing SOAP. Sun and MS
are, once again, in the midst of a power struggle, to the detriment of the
community.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Dave Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anne Thomas Manes" <an...@manes.net>
To: <so...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: Sun And SOAP
> >William Brogden asked:
> >
> >I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
> >power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
> >inside information about SUN's intentions?
>
> For the record:
>
> - SOAP is not a factor in any "Sun/Microsoft power struggle".
>
> - Sun is not building an alternative to SOAP. Sun views SOAP as a useful,
> lightweight XML protocol. Sun recommends using SOAP where a lightweight
XML
> protocol is appropriate.
>
> - Sun is not building a SOAP implementation because we don't think we need
> two different SOAP implementations for Java. Sun recommends using the
Apache
> SOAP implementation, which is a very true implementation of the SOAP V1.1
> specification.
>
> - Sun and iPlanet are adding support for SOAP in a number of products. For
> example iPlanet Integration Server (formally known as Forte Fusion)
provides
> a SOAP adapter.
>
> - Sun is a member of the UDDI Working Group (see www.uddi.org), which is
> defining specifications for a Web Services registry. The UDDI V1
> specification defines SOAP APIs.
>
> - Sun is actively participating in the W3C XML Protocol (XP) Working
Group,
> which is defining a standard, extensible, XML protocol. (see
> http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/) The XP Working Group is using the SOAP 1.1
> specification as a starting point. (Note that the final W3C XP
> Recommendation will be different from SOAP 1.1).
>
> - Sun is also engaged in other XML activities. In particular, Sun is a
> leading contributor to the Electronic Business XML (ebXML) initiative (see
> www.ebxml.org). ebXML is a joint initiative of UN/CEFACT (the United
Nations
> standards body that created EDI) and OASIS. ebXML was established to
develop
> an internationally-recognized standard technical framework for
international
> trade. ebXML is defining specifications that will enable XML to be
utilized
> in a consistent manner for the exchange of all electronic business data. A
> primary objective of ebXML is to lower the barrier of entry to electronic
> business in order to facilitate international trade, particularly with
> respect to small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and developing
> nations. ebXML is being developed entirely in the public eye. The process
is
> open to anyone who wants to participate. Currently there are more than
1000
> companies, organizations, institutions, standards bodies, and individuals
> from all over the world participating in the effort. (see
> http://www.ebxml.org/participants/participants.htm)
>
> - ebXML does not compete with SOAP. ebXML is to a motor vehicle as SOAP is
> to tires. ebXML defines a set of specifications that addresses the entire
> scope of business to business ecommerce (for example, how to establish a
> trade party agreement, or how to process a multi-currency transaction).
SOAP
> defines a messaging protocol. ebXML focuses on a specific type of
> application (international trade). SOAP is a generic protocol that can be
> used for a wide variety of applications. ebXML is not likely to be used
for
> device-to-device communications, yet SOAP is being used as the transport
> within UPnP.
>
> - ebXML provides provisions for specified levels of quality of service
> (QoS). You can certainly build a QoS-enabled international trade framework
> on top of SOAP, but the point is, you really only want to build that
> framework once, and then you want to get the international trade community
> to adopt it. ebXML is being developed by the international trade
community.
> One project within ebXML is the Transport/Routing and Packaging (TRP)
> project. The ebXML TRP team has looked at SOAP V1.1 and determined that
the
> specification does not support certain technical requirements. For
example,
> ebXML has determined that business messages might need to contain XML
> fragments, complete XML documents, multiple documents, and/or non-XML
data.
> SOAP V1.1 only transports XML fragments (including CDATA). Given that SOAP
> is not an internationally recognized official standard, and that it
doesn't
> effectively support the ebXML technical requirements, ebXML TRP elected
not
> to adopt SOAP, and it defined a different messaging protocol that used
> multipart MIME headers. The ebXML TRP protocol is similar to HP's SOAP
> Messages with Attachments specification (see
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/general/soapattachspec.asp), which wasn't
> available when ebXML TRP was developing its spec.
>
> - Representatives from ebXML are participating in the W3C XP Working
Group.
> There is a strong desire among many of the W3C XP participants to ensure
> convergence of W3C XP and ebXML TRP. In time this discussion will likely
> become moot.
>
> Regards,
>
> Anne Thomas Manes
> Director Market Innovation
> Sun Microsystems
> atm@sun.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Brogden [mailto:wbrogden@bga.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:17 AM
> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Sun And SOAP
>
>
> Sun just did an announcement about their support for XML
> and business to business messaging and Java - SOAP was
> conspicuously absent!
>
> For example - the ebXML project
> http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/mproject/
>
> I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
> power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
> inside information about SUN's intentions?
>
> --
> WBB - wbrogden@lanw.com
> Java Cert mock exams http://www.lanw.com/java/javacert/
> Author of Java Developer's Guide to Servlets and JSP
> ISBN 0-7821-2809-2
>
Re: Sun And SOAP
Posted by Dave Ford <df...@smart-soft.com>.
<<SOAP is not a factor in any "Sun/Microsoft power struggle">>
Despite your comments. I don't believe this to be true!
When looking at section 2 of the ebXML TRP spec, which lists all of the
participants, I noticed that MS is the one company whose name is not on
there.
The developer community already has many ways to send messages across
process boundaries:
- IIOP
- JRMP
- DCOM
- SOAP
While they each may differ slightly in features, the bottom line is, we
don't need another protocol. We need consensus - and interoperability. All
apps will not be written in java. All apps will not be written with MS
products.
Thus, when yet another way to send messages comes up, in this case "ebXML
TRP", I believe the main questions that need to be addressed are:
How does this compare to, compete with or compliment existing messaging
technologies.
Why the need for yet another?
Why not use one of the existing?
Does MS support it?
These are questions that intelligent IT customers will ask. Yet Sun doesn't
address these issues. Not because they are unimportant, but because Sun
doesn't want to acknowledge SOAP, something that MS started.
The fact the JSR #000067 "Java APIs for XML Messaging 1.0" doesn't even
"mention" SOAP has everything to do with the "Sun/Microsoft power struggle".
For that matter, they don't mention RMI, CORBA or JMS either.
Why has Sun not created an API for sending and receiving SOAP messages? Here
was your answer:
"Sun is not building a SOAP implementation because we don't think we need
two different SOAP implementations for Java."
If this were true, why the need for two xml parsers: Sun's JAXP and Apache's
Xerces.
The real reason is, I believe, political: MS is pushing SOAP. Sun and MS
are, once again, in the midst of a power struggle, to the detriment of the
community.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Dave Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anne Thomas Manes" <an...@manes.net>
To: <so...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: Sun And SOAP
> >William Brogden asked:
> >
> >I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
> >power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
> >inside information about SUN's intentions?
>
> For the record:
>
> - SOAP is not a factor in any "Sun/Microsoft power struggle".
>
> - Sun is not building an alternative to SOAP. Sun views SOAP as a useful,
> lightweight XML protocol. Sun recommends using SOAP where a lightweight
XML
> protocol is appropriate.
>
> - Sun is not building a SOAP implementation because we don't think we need
> two different SOAP implementations for Java. Sun recommends using the
Apache
> SOAP implementation, which is a very true implementation of the SOAP V1.1
> specification.
>
> - Sun and iPlanet are adding support for SOAP in a number of products. For
> example iPlanet Integration Server (formally known as Forte Fusion)
provides
> a SOAP adapter.
>
> - Sun is a member of the UDDI Working Group (see www.uddi.org), which is
> defining specifications for a Web Services registry. The UDDI V1
> specification defines SOAP APIs.
>
> - Sun is actively participating in the W3C XML Protocol (XP) Working
Group,
> which is defining a standard, extensible, XML protocol. (see
> http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/) The XP Working Group is using the SOAP 1.1
> specification as a starting point. (Note that the final W3C XP
> Recommendation will be different from SOAP 1.1).
>
> - Sun is also engaged in other XML activities. In particular, Sun is a
> leading contributor to the Electronic Business XML (ebXML) initiative (see
> www.ebxml.org). ebXML is a joint initiative of UN/CEFACT (the United
Nations
> standards body that created EDI) and OASIS. ebXML was established to
develop
> an internationally-recognized standard technical framework for
international
> trade. ebXML is defining specifications that will enable XML to be
utilized
> in a consistent manner for the exchange of all electronic business data. A
> primary objective of ebXML is to lower the barrier of entry to electronic
> business in order to facilitate international trade, particularly with
> respect to small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and developing
> nations. ebXML is being developed entirely in the public eye. The process
is
> open to anyone who wants to participate. Currently there are more than
1000
> companies, organizations, institutions, standards bodies, and individuals
> from all over the world participating in the effort. (see
> http://www.ebxml.org/participants/participants.htm)
>
> - ebXML does not compete with SOAP. ebXML is to a motor vehicle as SOAP is
> to tires. ebXML defines a set of specifications that addresses the entire
> scope of business to business ecommerce (for example, how to establish a
> trade party agreement, or how to process a multi-currency transaction).
SOAP
> defines a messaging protocol. ebXML focuses on a specific type of
> application (international trade). SOAP is a generic protocol that can be
> used for a wide variety of applications. ebXML is not likely to be used
for
> device-to-device communications, yet SOAP is being used as the transport
> within UPnP.
>
> - ebXML provides provisions for specified levels of quality of service
> (QoS). You can certainly build a QoS-enabled international trade framework
> on top of SOAP, but the point is, you really only want to build that
> framework once, and then you want to get the international trade community
> to adopt it. ebXML is being developed by the international trade
community.
> One project within ebXML is the Transport/Routing and Packaging (TRP)
> project. The ebXML TRP team has looked at SOAP V1.1 and determined that
the
> specification does not support certain technical requirements. For
example,
> ebXML has determined that business messages might need to contain XML
> fragments, complete XML documents, multiple documents, and/or non-XML
data.
> SOAP V1.1 only transports XML fragments (including CDATA). Given that SOAP
> is not an internationally recognized official standard, and that it
doesn't
> effectively support the ebXML technical requirements, ebXML TRP elected
not
> to adopt SOAP, and it defined a different messaging protocol that used
> multipart MIME headers. The ebXML TRP protocol is similar to HP's SOAP
> Messages with Attachments specification (see
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/general/soapattachspec.asp), which wasn't
> available when ebXML TRP was developing its spec.
>
> - Representatives from ebXML are participating in the W3C XP Working
Group.
> There is a strong desire among many of the W3C XP participants to ensure
> convergence of W3C XP and ebXML TRP. In time this discussion will likely
> become moot.
>
> Regards,
>
> Anne Thomas Manes
> Director Market Innovation
> Sun Microsystems
> atm@sun.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Brogden [mailto:wbrogden@bga.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:17 AM
> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Sun And SOAP
>
>
> Sun just did an announcement about their support for XML
> and business to business messaging and Java - SOAP was
> conspicuously absent!
>
> For example - the ebXML project
> http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/mproject/
>
> I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
> power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
> inside information about SUN's intentions?
>
> --
> WBB - wbrogden@lanw.com
> Java Cert mock exams http://www.lanw.com/java/javacert/
> Author of Java Developer's Guide to Servlets and JSP
> ISBN 0-7821-2809-2
>
Re: Sun And SOAP
Posted by Navaneeth <nk...@hotmail.com>.
Hi Anne,
Just have a few questions for you ...
Sorry if they are amateurish ..
1. Are WSDL and ebXML competing technologies ??
2. Sun is a member or UDDI .. does it necessarily mean that
sun supports WSDL ?? I understand that the present UDDI specs does not
mention anything about WSDL but is there an effort to include it in near
future ??
Regards,
Navaneeth
----- Original Message -----
From: Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>
To: <so...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:14 AM
Subject: RE: Sun And SOAP
> >William Brogden asked:
> >
> >I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
> >power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
> >inside information about SUN's intentions?
>
> For the record:
>
> - SOAP is not a factor in any "Sun/Microsoft power struggle".
>
> - Sun is not building an alternative to SOAP. Sun views SOAP as a useful,
> lightweight XML protocol. Sun recommends using SOAP where a lightweight
XML
> protocol is appropriate.
>
> - Sun is not building a SOAP implementation because we don't think we need
> two different SOAP implementations for Java. Sun recommends using the
Apache
> SOAP implementation, which is a very true implementation of the SOAP V1.1
> specification.
>
> - Sun and iPlanet are adding support for SOAP in a number of products. For
> example iPlanet Integration Server (formally known as Forte Fusion)
provides
> a SOAP adapter.
>
> - Sun is a member of the UDDI Working Group (see www.uddi.org), which is
> defining specifications for a Web Services registry. The UDDI V1
> specification defines SOAP APIs.
>
> - Sun is actively participating in the W3C XML Protocol (XP) Working
Group,
> which is defining a standard, extensible, XML protocol. (see
> http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/) The XP Working Group is using the SOAP 1.1
> specification as a starting point. (Note that the final W3C XP
> Recommendation will be different from SOAP 1.1).
>
> - Sun is also engaged in other XML activities. In particular, Sun is a
> leading contributor to the Electronic Business XML (ebXML) initiative (see
> www.ebxml.org). ebXML is a joint initiative of UN/CEFACT (the United
Nations
> standards body that created EDI) and OASIS. ebXML was established to
develop
> an internationally-recognized standard technical framework for
international
> trade. ebXML is defining specifications that will enable XML to be
utilized
> in a consistent manner for the exchange of all electronic business data. A
> primary objective of ebXML is to lower the barrier of entry to electronic
> business in order to facilitate international trade, particularly with
> respect to small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and developing
> nations. ebXML is being developed entirely in the public eye. The process
is
> open to anyone who wants to participate. Currently there are more than
1000
> companies, organizations, institutions, standards bodies, and individuals
> from all over the world participating in the effort. (see
> http://www.ebxml.org/participants/participants.htm)
>
> - ebXML does not compete with SOAP. ebXML is to a motor vehicle as SOAP is
> to tires. ebXML defines a set of specifications that addresses the entire
> scope of business to business ecommerce (for example, how to establish a
> trade party agreement, or how to process a multi-currency transaction).
SOAP
> defines a messaging protocol. ebXML focuses on a specific type of
> application (international trade). SOAP is a generic protocol that can be
> used for a wide variety of applications. ebXML is not likely to be used
for
> device-to-device communications, yet SOAP is being used as the transport
> within UPnP.
>
> - ebXML provides provisions for specified levels of quality of service
> (QoS). You can certainly build a QoS-enabled international trade framework
> on top of SOAP, but the point is, you really only want to build that
> framework once, and then you want to get the international trade community
> to adopt it. ebXML is being developed by the international trade
community.
> One project within ebXML is the Transport/Routing and Packaging (TRP)
> project. The ebXML TRP team has looked at SOAP V1.1 and determined that
the
> specification does not support certain technical requirements. For
example,
> ebXML has determined that business messages might need to contain XML
> fragments, complete XML documents, multiple documents, and/or non-XML
data.
> SOAP V1.1 only transports XML fragments (including CDATA). Given that SOAP
> is not an internationally recognized official standard, and that it
doesn't
> effectively support the ebXML technical requirements, ebXML TRP elected
not
> to adopt SOAP, and it defined a different messaging protocol that used
> multipart MIME headers. The ebXML TRP protocol is similar to HP's SOAP
> Messages with Attachments specification (see
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/general/soapattachspec.asp), which wasn't
> available when ebXML TRP was developing its spec.
>
> - Representatives from ebXML are participating in the W3C XP Working
Group.
> There is a strong desire among many of the W3C XP participants to ensure
> convergence of W3C XP and ebXML TRP. In time this discussion will likely
> become moot.
>
> Regards,
>
> Anne Thomas Manes
> Director Market Innovation
> Sun Microsystems
> atm@sun.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Brogden [mailto:wbrogden@bga.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:17 AM
> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Sun And SOAP
>
>
> Sun just did an announcement about their support for XML
> and business to business messaging and Java - SOAP was
> conspicuously absent!
>
> For example - the ebXML project
> http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/mproject/
>
> I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
> power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
> inside information about SUN's intentions?
>
> --
> WBB - wbrogden@lanw.com
> Java Cert mock exams http://www.lanw.com/java/javacert/
> Author of Java Developer's Guide to Servlets and JSP
> ISBN 0-7821-2809-2
>
>
Re: Sun And SOAP
Posted by Jon Bosak <bo...@boethius.eng.sun.com>.
Excellent summary.
| The ebXML TRP protocol is similar to HP's SOAP Messages with
| Attachments specification (see
| http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/general/soapattachspec.asp), which
| wasn't available when ebXML TRP was developing its spec.
And which under the terms of the submission from Microsoft, HP, et al.
won't become licensable on fair and nondiscriminatory terms until XP
becomes a W3C Recommendation. Let's not forget this.
Jon
Re: Sun And SOAP
Posted by Jon Bosak <bo...@boethius.eng.sun.com>.
Excellent summary.
| The ebXML TRP protocol is similar to HP's SOAP Messages with
| Attachments specification (see
| http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/general/soapattachspec.asp), which
| wasn't available when ebXML TRP was developing its spec.
And which under the terms of the submission from Microsoft, HP, et al.
won't become licensable on fair and nondiscriminatory terms until XP
becomes a W3C Recommendation. Let's not forget this.
Jon
RE: Sun And SOAP
Posted by Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>.
>William Brogden asked:
>
>I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
>power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
>inside information about SUN's intentions?
For the record:
- SOAP is not a factor in any "Sun/Microsoft power struggle".
- Sun is not building an alternative to SOAP. Sun views SOAP as a useful,
lightweight XML protocol. Sun recommends using SOAP where a lightweight XML
protocol is appropriate.
- Sun is not building a SOAP implementation because we don't think we need
two different SOAP implementations for Java. Sun recommends using the Apache
SOAP implementation, which is a very true implementation of the SOAP V1.1
specification.
- Sun and iPlanet are adding support for SOAP in a number of products. For
example iPlanet Integration Server (formally known as Forte Fusion) provides
a SOAP adapter.
- Sun is a member of the UDDI Working Group (see www.uddi.org), which is
defining specifications for a Web Services registry. The UDDI V1
specification defines SOAP APIs.
- Sun is actively participating in the W3C XML Protocol (XP) Working Group,
which is defining a standard, extensible, XML protocol. (see
http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/) The XP Working Group is using the SOAP 1.1
specification as a starting point. (Note that the final W3C XP
Recommendation will be different from SOAP 1.1).
- Sun is also engaged in other XML activities. In particular, Sun is a
leading contributor to the Electronic Business XML (ebXML) initiative (see
www.ebxml.org). ebXML is a joint initiative of UN/CEFACT (the United Nations
standards body that created EDI) and OASIS. ebXML was established to develop
an internationally-recognized standard technical framework for international
trade. ebXML is defining specifications that will enable XML to be utilized
in a consistent manner for the exchange of all electronic business data. A
primary objective of ebXML is to lower the barrier of entry to electronic
business in order to facilitate international trade, particularly with
respect to small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and developing
nations. ebXML is being developed entirely in the public eye. The process is
open to anyone who wants to participate. Currently there are more than 1000
companies, organizations, institutions, standards bodies, and individuals
from all over the world participating in the effort. (see
http://www.ebxml.org/participants/participants.htm)
- ebXML does not compete with SOAP. ebXML is to a motor vehicle as SOAP is
to tires. ebXML defines a set of specifications that addresses the entire
scope of business to business ecommerce (for example, how to establish a
trade party agreement, or how to process a multi-currency transaction). SOAP
defines a messaging protocol. ebXML focuses on a specific type of
application (international trade). SOAP is a generic protocol that can be
used for a wide variety of applications. ebXML is not likely to be used for
device-to-device communications, yet SOAP is being used as the transport
within UPnP.
- ebXML provides provisions for specified levels of quality of service
(QoS). You can certainly build a QoS-enabled international trade framework
on top of SOAP, but the point is, you really only want to build that
framework once, and then you want to get the international trade community
to adopt it. ebXML is being developed by the international trade community.
One project within ebXML is the Transport/Routing and Packaging (TRP)
project. The ebXML TRP team has looked at SOAP V1.1 and determined that the
specification does not support certain technical requirements. For example,
ebXML has determined that business messages might need to contain XML
fragments, complete XML documents, multiple documents, and/or non-XML data.
SOAP V1.1 only transports XML fragments (including CDATA). Given that SOAP
is not an internationally recognized official standard, and that it doesn't
effectively support the ebXML technical requirements, ebXML TRP elected not
to adopt SOAP, and it defined a different messaging protocol that used
multipart MIME headers. The ebXML TRP protocol is similar to HP's SOAP
Messages with Attachments specification (see
http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/general/soapattachspec.asp), which wasn't
available when ebXML TRP was developing its spec.
- Representatives from ebXML are participating in the W3C XP Working Group.
There is a strong desire among many of the W3C XP participants to ensure
convergence of W3C XP and ebXML TRP. In time this discussion will likely
become moot.
Regards,
Anne Thomas Manes
Director Market Innovation
Sun Microsystems
atm@sun.com
-----Original Message-----
From: William Brogden [mailto:wbrogden@bga.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:17 AM
To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
Subject: Sun And SOAP
Sun just did an announcement about their support for XML
and business to business messaging and Java - SOAP was
conspicuously absent!
For example - the ebXML project
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/mproject/
I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
inside information about SUN's intentions?
--
WBB - wbrogden@lanw.com
Java Cert mock exams http://www.lanw.com/java/javacert/
Author of Java Developer's Guide to Servlets and JSP
ISBN 0-7821-2809-2
Re: Sun And SOAP
Posted by James Yegerlehner <ja...@kamiak.com>.
From: "Gus Delgado" <gu...@netquotient.com>
> I'm just starting to read about this new JMX which from what I heard is an
> alternative to SOAP, here is the link
Interesting, but JMX looks to me like it offers functionality similar to
UPnP, not general web services via SOAP. The docs at the URL you pointed to
for JMX even refer to a protocol adapter for Universal Plug and Play
(www.upnp.org). The "MBean" looks to me very much like a UPnP service, in as
much as it has attributes ( equiv to UPnP state variables), methods and
events.
Regards,
James Yegerlehner
james@kamiak.com
Re: Sun And SOAP
Posted by James Yegerlehner <ja...@kamiak.com>.
From: "Gus Delgado" <gu...@netquotient.com>
> I'm just starting to read about this new JMX which from what I heard is an
> alternative to SOAP, here is the link
Interesting, but JMX looks to me like it offers functionality similar to
UPnP, not general web services via SOAP. The docs at the URL you pointed to
for JMX even refer to a protocol adapter for Universal Plug and Play
(www.upnp.org). The "MBean" looks to me very much like a UPnP service, in as
much as it has attributes ( equiv to UPnP state variables), methods and
events.
Regards,
James Yegerlehner
james@kamiak.com
RE: Sun And SOAP
Posted by Gus Delgado <gu...@netquotient.com>.
I'm just starting to read about this new JMX which from what I heard is an
alternative to SOAP, here is the link
http://java.sun.com/products/JavaManagement/
Gus Delgado
Consultant
Net Quotienet Consulting Group
e-mail:gus.delgado@netquotient.com
cell: 512-587-6986
-----Original Message-----
From: William Brogden [mailto:wbrogden@bga.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 9:17 AM
To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
Subject: Sun And SOAP
Sun just did an announcement about their support for XML
and business to business messaging and Java - SOAP was
conspicuously absent!
For example - the ebXML project
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/mproject/
I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
inside information about SUN's intentions?
--
WBB - wbrogden@lanw.com
Java Cert mock exams http://www.lanw.com/java/javacert/
Author of Java Developer's Guide to Servlets and JSP
ISBN 0-7821-2809-2
RE: Sun And SOAP
Posted by Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>.
>William Brogden asked:
>
>I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
>power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
>inside information about SUN's intentions?
For the record:
- SOAP is not a factor in any "Sun/Microsoft power struggle".
- Sun is not building an alternative to SOAP. Sun views SOAP as a useful,
lightweight XML protocol. Sun recommends using SOAP where a lightweight XML
protocol is appropriate.
- Sun is not building a SOAP implementation because we don't think we need
two different SOAP implementations for Java. Sun recommends using the Apache
SOAP implementation, which is a very true implementation of the SOAP V1.1
specification.
- Sun and iPlanet are adding support for SOAP in a number of products. For
example iPlanet Integration Server (formally known as Forte Fusion) provides
a SOAP adapter.
- Sun is a member of the UDDI Working Group (see www.uddi.org), which is
defining specifications for a Web Services registry. The UDDI V1
specification defines SOAP APIs.
- Sun is actively participating in the W3C XML Protocol (XP) Working Group,
which is defining a standard, extensible, XML protocol. (see
http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/) The XP Working Group is using the SOAP 1.1
specification as a starting point. (Note that the final W3C XP
Recommendation will be different from SOAP 1.1).
- Sun is also engaged in other XML activities. In particular, Sun is a
leading contributor to the Electronic Business XML (ebXML) initiative (see
www.ebxml.org). ebXML is a joint initiative of UN/CEFACT (the United Nations
standards body that created EDI) and OASIS. ebXML was established to develop
an internationally-recognized standard technical framework for international
trade. ebXML is defining specifications that will enable XML to be utilized
in a consistent manner for the exchange of all electronic business data. A
primary objective of ebXML is to lower the barrier of entry to electronic
business in order to facilitate international trade, particularly with
respect to small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and developing
nations. ebXML is being developed entirely in the public eye. The process is
open to anyone who wants to participate. Currently there are more than 1000
companies, organizations, institutions, standards bodies, and individuals
from all over the world participating in the effort. (see
http://www.ebxml.org/participants/participants.htm)
- ebXML does not compete with SOAP. ebXML is to a motor vehicle as SOAP is
to tires. ebXML defines a set of specifications that addresses the entire
scope of business to business ecommerce (for example, how to establish a
trade party agreement, or how to process a multi-currency transaction). SOAP
defines a messaging protocol. ebXML focuses on a specific type of
application (international trade). SOAP is a generic protocol that can be
used for a wide variety of applications. ebXML is not likely to be used for
device-to-device communications, yet SOAP is being used as the transport
within UPnP.
- ebXML provides provisions for specified levels of quality of service
(QoS). You can certainly build a QoS-enabled international trade framework
on top of SOAP, but the point is, you really only want to build that
framework once, and then you want to get the international trade community
to adopt it. ebXML is being developed by the international trade community.
One project within ebXML is the Transport/Routing and Packaging (TRP)
project. The ebXML TRP team has looked at SOAP V1.1 and determined that the
specification does not support certain technical requirements. For example,
ebXML has determined that business messages might need to contain XML
fragments, complete XML documents, multiple documents, and/or non-XML data.
SOAP V1.1 only transports XML fragments (including CDATA). Given that SOAP
is not an internationally recognized official standard, and that it doesn't
effectively support the ebXML technical requirements, ebXML TRP elected not
to adopt SOAP, and it defined a different messaging protocol that used
multipart MIME headers. The ebXML TRP protocol is similar to HP's SOAP
Messages with Attachments specification (see
http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/general/soapattachspec.asp), which wasn't
available when ebXML TRP was developing its spec.
- Representatives from ebXML are participating in the W3C XP Working Group.
There is a strong desire among many of the W3C XP participants to ensure
convergence of W3C XP and ebXML TRP. In time this discussion will likely
become moot.
Regards,
Anne Thomas Manes
Director Market Innovation
Sun Microsystems
atm@sun.com
-----Original Message-----
From: William Brogden [mailto:wbrogden@bga.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:17 AM
To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
Subject: Sun And SOAP
Sun just did an announcement about their support for XML
and business to business messaging and Java - SOAP was
conspicuously absent!
For example - the ebXML project
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/mproject/
I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
inside information about SUN's intentions?
--
WBB - wbrogden@lanw.com
Java Cert mock exams http://www.lanw.com/java/javacert/
Author of Java Developer's Guide to Servlets and JSP
ISBN 0-7821-2809-2
RE: Sun And SOAP
Posted by Gus Delgado <gu...@netquotient.com>.
I'm just starting to read about this new JMX which from what I heard is an
alternative to SOAP, here is the link
http://java.sun.com/products/JavaManagement/
Gus Delgado
Consultant
Net Quotienet Consulting Group
e-mail:gus.delgado@netquotient.com
cell: 512-587-6986
-----Original Message-----
From: William Brogden [mailto:wbrogden@bga.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 9:17 AM
To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
Subject: Sun And SOAP
Sun just did an announcement about their support for XML
and business to business messaging and Java - SOAP was
conspicuously absent!
For example - the ebXML project
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/mproject/
I would really hate to get caught up in the SUN - MicroSoft
power struggle by working with SOAP. Does anybody have any
inside information about SUN's intentions?
--
WBB - wbrogden@lanw.com
Java Cert mock exams http://www.lanw.com/java/javacert/
Author of Java Developer's Guide to Servlets and JSP
ISBN 0-7821-2809-2