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Posted to dev@thrift.apache.org by "James E. King III" <jk...@apache.org> on 2019/01/02 14:24:12 UTC
Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5. The
differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two projects. Do
we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
- Jim
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>.
Hey Jens,
Problems with a .Net Standard lib?
--Randy
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:39 AM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Great idea. Not.
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> From: Randy Abernethy
> Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 7:18 PM
> To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
>
> A .Net Standard library should work with a .NET Core app, a .NET
> Framework/Mono app or a Xamarin app. I think it would be best to make
> Thrift a .net standard lib exclusively. Given our lack of need for GUI
> features it seems we should be easily able to comply with .Net
> Standard. Probably should get rid of csharp (and and maybe netcore)
> dir and merge everything (into a netstandard dir?). If .Net Framework
> 4.5 support is important we could do .net Standard 1.0. For testing
> netcore seems the right approach as it is likely the choice for cloud
> native microservices and offers the most direct impl of the standard.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 7:45 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > To clarify, voting on C++03 and Cocoa ends tomorrow.
> > We'll call for votes on others.
> >
> > If we could merge netcore into lib/csharp and have a single project
> > produce
> > both net45 and netstandard2.0 targets that would be ideal... I'm not sure
> > how compatible the code is though.
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 8:34 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > @jking yes /lib/netcore is the .Net Core impl, I am suggesting we
> > > ultimately remove /lib/csharp, which is the .Net Framework impl. I am
> > > _not_ suggesting we just del it, I am suggesting we direct all new
> > > contrib to netcore and stop taking pulls for csharp and create an
> > > incentive to port everything in C# missing from netcore (simple in
> > > most cases I've looked at).
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Allen George <al...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
> > > >
> > > > Approved:
> > > >
> > > > Cocoa
> > > > C++03 or less
> > > >
> > > > Open:
> > > >
> > > > JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment
> > > > and
> > > > using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
> > > > .net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
> > > > Silverlight
> > > > One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there legitimate
> > > > differences between the two was the question)
> > > >
> > > > Allen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com)
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not
> > > > available
> > > > on
> > > > their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no
> > > > longer
> > > the
> > > > case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
> > > >
> > > > And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is
> > > > still
> > > > supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses
> > > > it
> > > > except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote
> > > > about
> > > > that too.
> > > >
> > > > Have fun,
> > > > JensG
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > From: James E. King III
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
> > > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> > > >
> > > > We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
> > > > lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
> > > > (build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
> > > > against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
> > > > whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
> > > > really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still
> > > > on
> > > > .NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
> > > >
> > > > - Jim
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <
> > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> > > > > should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> > > > > Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework
> > > > > can
> > > > > run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> > > > > forward looking stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two
> > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > Do
> > > > > > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Jim
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Randy Abernethy
> > > > > Managing Partner
> > > > > RX-M, LLC
> > > > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > > > o 415-800-2922
> > > > > c 415-624-6447
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > --
> > > Randy Abernethy
> > > Managing Partner
> > > RX-M, LLC
> > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > o 415-800-2922
> > > c 415-624-6447
> > >
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Randy Abernethy
> Managing Partner
> RX-M, LLC
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> o 415-800-2922
> c 415-624-6447
>
--
--
Randy Abernethy
Managing Partner
RX-M, LLC
randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
o 415-800-2922
c 415-624-6447
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com>.
Great idea. Not.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
From: Randy Abernethy
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 7:18 PM
To: dev@thrift.apache.org
Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
A .Net Standard library should work with a .NET Core app, a .NET
Framework/Mono app or a Xamarin app. I think it would be best to make
Thrift a .net standard lib exclusively. Given our lack of need for GUI
features it seems we should be easily able to comply with .Net
Standard. Probably should get rid of csharp (and and maybe netcore)
dir and merge everything (into a netstandard dir?). If .Net Framework
4.5 support is important we could do .net Standard 1.0. For testing
netcore seems the right approach as it is likely the choice for cloud
native microservices and offers the most direct impl of the standard.
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 7:45 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> To clarify, voting on C++03 and Cocoa ends tomorrow.
> We'll call for votes on others.
>
> If we could merge netcore into lib/csharp and have a single project
> produce
> both net45 and netstandard2.0 targets that would be ideal... I'm not sure
> how compatible the code is though.
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 8:34 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
> wrote:
>
> > @jking yes /lib/netcore is the .Net Core impl, I am suggesting we
> > ultimately remove /lib/csharp, which is the .Net Framework impl. I am
> > _not_ suggesting we just del it, I am suggesting we direct all new
> > contrib to netcore and stop taking pulls for csharp and create an
> > incentive to port everything in C# missing from netcore (simple in
> > most cases I've looked at).
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Allen George <al...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
> > >
> > > Approved:
> > >
> > > Cocoa
> > > C++03 or less
> > >
> > > Open:
> > >
> > > JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment
> > > and
> > > using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
> > > .net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
> > > Silverlight
> > > One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there legitimate
> > > differences between the two was the question)
> > >
> > > Allen
> > >
> > >
> > > On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com)
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not
> > > available
> > > on
> > > their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no
> > > longer
> > the
> > > case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
> > >
> > > And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is
> > > still
> > > supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses
> > > it
> > > except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote
> > > about
> > > that too.
> > >
> > > Have fun,
> > > JensG
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > From: James E. King III
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
> > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> > >
> > > We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
> > > lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
> > > (build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
> > > against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
> > > whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
> > > really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still
> > > on
> > > .NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
> > >
> > > - Jim
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> > > > should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> > > > Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework
> > > > can
> > > > run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> > > > forward looking stuff.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5.
> > > > > The
> > > > > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two
> > > > > projects.
> > > > > Do
> > > > > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> > > > >
> > > > > - Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Randy Abernethy
> > > > Managing Partner
> > > > RX-M, LLC
> > > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > > o 415-800-2922
> > > > c 415-624-6447
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > Randy Abernethy
> > Managing Partner
> > RX-M, LLC
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > o 415-800-2922
> > c 415-624-6447
> >
--
--
Randy Abernethy
Managing Partner
RX-M, LLC
randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
o 415-800-2922
c 415-624-6447
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>.
A .Net Standard library should work with a .NET Core app, a .NET
Framework/Mono app or a Xamarin app. I think it would be best to make
Thrift a .net standard lib exclusively. Given our lack of need for GUI
features it seems we should be easily able to comply with .Net
Standard. Probably should get rid of csharp (and and maybe netcore)
dir and merge everything (into a netstandard dir?). If .Net Framework
4.5 support is important we could do .net Standard 1.0. For testing
netcore seems the right approach as it is likely the choice for cloud
native microservices and offers the most direct impl of the standard.
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 7:45 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> To clarify, voting on C++03 and Cocoa ends tomorrow.
> We'll call for votes on others.
>
> If we could merge netcore into lib/csharp and have a single project produce
> both net45 and netstandard2.0 targets that would be ideal... I'm not sure
> how compatible the code is though.
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 8:34 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
> wrote:
>
> > @jking yes /lib/netcore is the .Net Core impl, I am suggesting we
> > ultimately remove /lib/csharp, which is the .Net Framework impl. I am
> > _not_ suggesting we just del it, I am suggesting we direct all new
> > contrib to netcore and stop taking pulls for csharp and create an
> > incentive to port everything in C# missing from netcore (simple in
> > most cases I've looked at).
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Allen George <al...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
> > >
> > > Approved:
> > >
> > > Cocoa
> > > C++03 or less
> > >
> > > Open:
> > >
> > > JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment and
> > > using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
> > > .net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
> > > Silverlight
> > > One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there legitimate
> > > differences between the two was the question)
> > >
> > > Allen
> > >
> > >
> > > On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com)
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not available
> > > on
> > > their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no longer
> > the
> > > case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
> > >
> > > And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is still
> > > supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses it
> > > except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote about
> > > that too.
> > >
> > > Have fun,
> > > JensG
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > From: James E. King III
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
> > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> > >
> > > We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
> > > lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
> > > (build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
> > > against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
> > > whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
> > > really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still on
> > > .NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
> > >
> > > - Jim
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> > > > should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> > > > Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework can
> > > > run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> > > > forward looking stuff.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5. The
> > > > > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two projects.
> > > > > Do
> > > > > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> > > > >
> > > > > - Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Randy Abernethy
> > > > Managing Partner
> > > > RX-M, LLC
> > > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > > o 415-800-2922
> > > > c 415-624-6447
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > Randy Abernethy
> > Managing Partner
> > RX-M, LLC
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > o 415-800-2922
> > c 415-624-6447
> >
--
--
Randy Abernethy
Managing Partner
RX-M, LLC
randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
o 415-800-2922
c 415-624-6447
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by "James E. King III" <jk...@apache.org>.
To clarify, voting on C++03 and Cocoa ends tomorrow.
We'll call for votes on others.
If we could merge netcore into lib/csharp and have a single project produce
both net45 and netstandard2.0 targets that would be ideal... I'm not sure
how compatible the code is though.
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 8:34 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
wrote:
> @jking yes /lib/netcore is the .Net Core impl, I am suggesting we
> ultimately remove /lib/csharp, which is the .Net Framework impl. I am
> _not_ suggesting we just del it, I am suggesting we direct all new
> contrib to netcore and stop taking pulls for csharp and create an
> incentive to port everything in C# missing from netcore (simple in
> most cases I've looked at).
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Allen George <al...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
> >
> > Approved:
> >
> > Cocoa
> > C++03 or less
> >
> > Open:
> >
> > JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment and
> > using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
> > .net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
> > Silverlight
> > One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there legitimate
> > differences between the two was the question)
> >
> > Allen
> >
> >
> > On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com)
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not available
> > on
> > their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no longer
> the
> > case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
> >
> > And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is still
> > supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses it
> > except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote about
> > that too.
> >
> > Have fun,
> > JensG
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > From: James E. King III
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
> > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> >
> > We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
> > lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
> > (build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
> > against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
> > whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
> > really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still on
> > .NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
> >
> > - Jim
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> > > should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> > > Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework can
> > > run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> > > forward looking stuff.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5. The
> > > > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two projects.
> > > > Do
> > > > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> > > >
> > > > - Jim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > --
> > > Randy Abernethy
> > > Managing Partner
> > > RX-M, LLC
> > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > o 415-800-2922
> > > c 415-624-6447
> > >
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Randy Abernethy
> Managing Partner
> RX-M, LLC
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> o 415-800-2922
> c 415-624-6447
>
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com>.
That's the reason why I just started doing it to find out all the gaps and
loose ends. I will make tickets and patches for all roadbumps I run into.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
From: James E. King III
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 11:58 PM
To: dev@thrift.apache.org
Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Agree, it's not good that the interfaces are so different that is just
doesn't work straight through.
We should be able to build the lib/csharp code targeting netstandard2.0,
correct?
What are the changes in netcore that are enhancements over csharp? I see
some async I/O
but not sure what else.
- Jim
On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 5:34 PM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> That's going to be a tough sled. Just started to migrate a complete
> solution
> from c# to netstandard and had about 5 problems in 10 minutes. And that's
> just the beginning, I'm far from being through yet.
>
> We really should think about how we can make migration easier for folks
> trying the same. We absolutely have to when we going to cut off C#,
> otherwise the sh*t storm we will get will be of biblical proportions.
>
> Have fun,
> JensG
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> From: James E. King III
> Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 9:10 PM
> To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
>
> The nuget package I published for 0.12.0 contains a build for net35,
> net45,
> and netstandard2.0.
> This means .NET Framework for Windows Desktop v3.5 and v4.5 as well as
> .NET
> Standard 2.0.
>
> There are some optimizations that we use in net45 (they came in net40
> actually) that are not
> available in net35, hence to two targets. Then the lib/netcore stuff was
> made and has separated
> from lib/csharp and there have been some changes, but it doesn't look like
> a ton. I assume some
> of the changes take advantage of new things in netstandard.
>
> All I am suggesting is that net35 is long in the tooth, and folks can use
> 0.12.0 to work with it,
> and that we consider having only net45 or netstandard*.* (version to be
> decided; we're on 2.0
> at the moment and we likely don't require 2.0). I'm not as convinced
> someone could use netstandard
> with a windows desktop app - that's .NET Framework and quite different and
> that's what lib/csharp provides.
>
> Ideally we'll get to a point where there's only one C# implementation
> again, but I'm not sure
> how quickly that will happen. In the meantime we have to be careful that
> changes made
> in one that are applicable to the other get done. It would be a good idea
> to analyze what's been
> changed to make sure nothing has been missed.
>
> - Jim
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 2:07 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ya, I think that is a prereq for sure.
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:01 AM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Can we make sure all fixes to the C# bindings made in the meantime are
> > also
> > > in netcore? Otherwise I'm against it.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > From: Randy Abernethy
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 2:34 AM
> > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> > >
> > > @jking yes /lib/netcore is the .Net Core impl, I am suggesting we
> > > ultimately remove /lib/csharp, which is the .Net Framework impl. I am
> > > _not_ suggesting we just del it, I am suggesting we direct all new
> > > contrib to netcore and stop taking pulls for csharp and create an
> > > incentive to port everything in C# missing from netcore (simple in
> > > most cases I've looked at).
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Allen George <al...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
> > > >
> > > > Approved:
> > > >
> > > > Cocoa
> > > > C++03 or less
> > > >
> > > > Open:
> > > >
> > > > JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment
> > and
> > > > using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
> > > > .net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
> > > > Silverlight
> > > > One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there
> legitimate
> > > > differences between the two was the question)
> > > >
> > > > Allen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com)
> > wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not
> > available
> > > > on
> > > > their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no
> > > > longer
> > > > the
> > > > case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
> > > >
> > > > And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is
> > > > still
> > > > supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses
> > > > it
> > > > except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote
> > about
> > > > that too.
> > > >
> > > > Have fun,
> > > > JensG
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > From: James E. King III
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
> > > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> > > >
> > > > We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
> > > > lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
> > > > (build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
> > > > against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
> > > > whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
> > > > really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are
> > > > still
> > on
> > > > .NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
> > > >
> > > > - Jim
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> > > > > should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core
> (2.2).
> > > > > Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework
> > > > > can
> > > > > run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> > > > > forward looking stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jking@apache.org
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two
> > projects.
> > > > > > Do
> > > > > > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Jim
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Randy Abernethy
> > > > > Managing Partner
> > > > > RX-M, LLC
> > > > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > > > o 415-800-2922
> > > > > c 415-624-6447
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > --
> > > Randy Abernethy
> > > Managing Partner
> > > RX-M, LLC
> > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > o 415-800-2922
> > > c 415-624-6447
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > Randy Abernethy
> > Managing Partner
> > RX-M, LLC
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > o 415-800-2922
> > c 415-624-6447
> >
>
>
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by "James E. King III" <jk...@apache.org>.
Agree, it's not good that the interfaces are so different that is just
doesn't work straight through.
We should be able to build the lib/csharp code targeting netstandard2.0,
correct?
What are the changes in netcore that are enhancements over csharp? I see
some async I/O
but not sure what else.
- Jim
On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 5:34 PM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> That's going to be a tough sled. Just started to migrate a complete
> solution
> from c# to netstandard and had about 5 problems in 10 minutes. And that's
> just the beginning, I'm far from being through yet.
>
> We really should think about how we can make migration easier for folks
> trying the same. We absolutely have to when we going to cut off C#,
> otherwise the sh*t storm we will get will be of biblical proportions.
>
> Have fun,
> JensG
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> From: James E. King III
> Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 9:10 PM
> To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
>
> The nuget package I published for 0.12.0 contains a build for net35, net45,
> and netstandard2.0.
> This means .NET Framework for Windows Desktop v3.5 and v4.5 as well as .NET
> Standard 2.0.
>
> There are some optimizations that we use in net45 (they came in net40
> actually) that are not
> available in net35, hence to two targets. Then the lib/netcore stuff was
> made and has separated
> from lib/csharp and there have been some changes, but it doesn't look like
> a ton. I assume some
> of the changes take advantage of new things in netstandard.
>
> All I am suggesting is that net35 is long in the tooth, and folks can use
> 0.12.0 to work with it,
> and that we consider having only net45 or netstandard*.* (version to be
> decided; we're on 2.0
> at the moment and we likely don't require 2.0). I'm not as convinced
> someone could use netstandard
> with a windows desktop app - that's .NET Framework and quite different and
> that's what lib/csharp provides.
>
> Ideally we'll get to a point where there's only one C# implementation
> again, but I'm not sure
> how quickly that will happen. In the meantime we have to be careful that
> changes made
> in one that are applicable to the other get done. It would be a good idea
> to analyze what's been
> changed to make sure nothing has been missed.
>
> - Jim
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 2:07 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ya, I think that is a prereq for sure.
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:01 AM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Can we make sure all fixes to the C# bindings made in the meantime are
> > also
> > > in netcore? Otherwise I'm against it.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > From: Randy Abernethy
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 2:34 AM
> > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> > >
> > > @jking yes /lib/netcore is the .Net Core impl, I am suggesting we
> > > ultimately remove /lib/csharp, which is the .Net Framework impl. I am
> > > _not_ suggesting we just del it, I am suggesting we direct all new
> > > contrib to netcore and stop taking pulls for csharp and create an
> > > incentive to port everything in C# missing from netcore (simple in
> > > most cases I've looked at).
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Allen George <al...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
> > > >
> > > > Approved:
> > > >
> > > > Cocoa
> > > > C++03 or less
> > > >
> > > > Open:
> > > >
> > > > JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment
> > and
> > > > using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
> > > > .net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
> > > > Silverlight
> > > > One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there
> legitimate
> > > > differences between the two was the question)
> > > >
> > > > Allen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com)
> > wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not
> > available
> > > > on
> > > > their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no
> > > > longer
> > > > the
> > > > case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
> > > >
> > > > And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is
> > > > still
> > > > supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses
> > > > it
> > > > except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote
> > about
> > > > that too.
> > > >
> > > > Have fun,
> > > > JensG
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > From: James E. King III
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
> > > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> > > >
> > > > We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
> > > > lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
> > > > (build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
> > > > against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
> > > > whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
> > > > really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still
> > on
> > > > .NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
> > > >
> > > > - Jim
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> > > > > should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core
> (2.2).
> > > > > Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework
> > > > > can
> > > > > run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> > > > > forward looking stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jking@apache.org
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two
> > projects.
> > > > > > Do
> > > > > > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Jim
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Randy Abernethy
> > > > > Managing Partner
> > > > > RX-M, LLC
> > > > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > > > o 415-800-2922
> > > > > c 415-624-6447
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > --
> > > Randy Abernethy
> > > Managing Partner
> > > RX-M, LLC
> > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > o 415-800-2922
> > > c 415-624-6447
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > Randy Abernethy
> > Managing Partner
> > RX-M, LLC
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > o 415-800-2922
> > c 415-624-6447
> >
>
>
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com>.
Hi,
I just created THRIFT-4723 for this. I think that's the best solution.
Have fun,
JensG
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
From: Jens Geyer
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 11:34 PM
To: dev@thrift.apache.org
Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Hi,
That's going to be a tough sled. Just started to migrate a complete solution
from c# to netstandard and had about 5 problems in 10 minutes. And that's
just the beginning, I'm far from being through yet.
We really should think about how we can make migration easier for folks
trying the same. We absolutely have to when we going to cut off C#,
otherwise the sh*t storm we will get will be of biblical proportions.
Have fun,
JensG
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
From: James E. King III
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 9:10 PM
To: dev@thrift.apache.org
Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
The nuget package I published for 0.12.0 contains a build for net35, net45,
and netstandard2.0.
This means .NET Framework for Windows Desktop v3.5 and v4.5 as well as .NET
Standard 2.0.
There are some optimizations that we use in net45 (they came in net40
actually) that are not
available in net35, hence to two targets. Then the lib/netcore stuff was
made and has separated
from lib/csharp and there have been some changes, but it doesn't look like
a ton. I assume some
of the changes take advantage of new things in netstandard.
All I am suggesting is that net35 is long in the tooth, and folks can use
0.12.0 to work with it,
and that we consider having only net45 or netstandard*.* (version to be
decided; we're on 2.0
at the moment and we likely don't require 2.0). I'm not as convinced
someone could use netstandard
with a windows desktop app - that's .NET Framework and quite different and
that's what lib/csharp provides.
Ideally we'll get to a point where there's only one C# implementation
again, but I'm not sure
how quickly that will happen. In the meantime we have to be careful that
changes made
in one that are applicable to the other get done. It would be a good idea
to analyze what's been
changed to make sure nothing has been missed.
- Jim
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 2:07 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
wrote:
> Ya, I think that is a prereq for sure.
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:01 AM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Can we make sure all fixes to the C# bindings made in the meantime are
> also
> > in netcore? Otherwise I'm against it.
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > From: Randy Abernethy
> > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 2:34 AM
> > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> >
> > @jking yes /lib/netcore is the .Net Core impl, I am suggesting we
> > ultimately remove /lib/csharp, which is the .Net Framework impl. I am
> > _not_ suggesting we just del it, I am suggesting we direct all new
> > contrib to netcore and stop taking pulls for csharp and create an
> > incentive to port everything in C# missing from netcore (simple in
> > most cases I've looked at).
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Allen George <al...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
> > >
> > > Approved:
> > >
> > > Cocoa
> > > C++03 or less
> > >
> > > Open:
> > >
> > > JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment
> and
> > > using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
> > > .net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
> > > Silverlight
> > > One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there legitimate
> > > differences between the two was the question)
> > >
> > > Allen
> > >
> > >
> > > On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com)
> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not
> available
> > > on
> > > their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no
> > > longer
> > > the
> > > case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
> > >
> > > And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is
> > > still
> > > supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses
> > > it
> > > except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote
> about
> > > that too.
> > >
> > > Have fun,
> > > JensG
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > From: James E. King III
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
> > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> > >
> > > We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
> > > lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
> > > (build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
> > > against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
> > > whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
> > > really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still
> on
> > > .NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
> > >
> > > - Jim
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> > > > should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> > > > Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework
> > > > can
> > > > run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> > > > forward looking stuff.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5.
> > > > > The
> > > > > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two
> projects.
> > > > > Do
> > > > > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> > > > >
> > > > > - Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Randy Abernethy
> > > > Managing Partner
> > > > RX-M, LLC
> > > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > > o 415-800-2922
> > > > c 415-624-6447
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > Randy Abernethy
> > Managing Partner
> > RX-M, LLC
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > o 415-800-2922
> > c 415-624-6447
> >
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Randy Abernethy
> Managing Partner
> RX-M, LLC
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> o 415-800-2922
> c 415-624-6447
>
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com>.
Hi,
That's going to be a tough sled. Just started to migrate a complete solution
from c# to netstandard and had about 5 problems in 10 minutes. And that's
just the beginning, I'm far from being through yet.
We really should think about how we can make migration easier for folks
trying the same. We absolutely have to when we going to cut off C#,
otherwise the sh*t storm we will get will be of biblical proportions.
Have fun,
JensG
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
From: James E. King III
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 9:10 PM
To: dev@thrift.apache.org
Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
The nuget package I published for 0.12.0 contains a build for net35, net45,
and netstandard2.0.
This means .NET Framework for Windows Desktop v3.5 and v4.5 as well as .NET
Standard 2.0.
There are some optimizations that we use in net45 (they came in net40
actually) that are not
available in net35, hence to two targets. Then the lib/netcore stuff was
made and has separated
from lib/csharp and there have been some changes, but it doesn't look like
a ton. I assume some
of the changes take advantage of new things in netstandard.
All I am suggesting is that net35 is long in the tooth, and folks can use
0.12.0 to work with it,
and that we consider having only net45 or netstandard*.* (version to be
decided; we're on 2.0
at the moment and we likely don't require 2.0). I'm not as convinced
someone could use netstandard
with a windows desktop app - that's .NET Framework and quite different and
that's what lib/csharp provides.
Ideally we'll get to a point where there's only one C# implementation
again, but I'm not sure
how quickly that will happen. In the meantime we have to be careful that
changes made
in one that are applicable to the other get done. It would be a good idea
to analyze what's been
changed to make sure nothing has been missed.
- Jim
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 2:07 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
wrote:
> Ya, I think that is a prereq for sure.
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:01 AM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Can we make sure all fixes to the C# bindings made in the meantime are
> also
> > in netcore? Otherwise I'm against it.
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > From: Randy Abernethy
> > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 2:34 AM
> > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> >
> > @jking yes /lib/netcore is the .Net Core impl, I am suggesting we
> > ultimately remove /lib/csharp, which is the .Net Framework impl. I am
> > _not_ suggesting we just del it, I am suggesting we direct all new
> > contrib to netcore and stop taking pulls for csharp and create an
> > incentive to port everything in C# missing from netcore (simple in
> > most cases I've looked at).
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Allen George <al...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
> > >
> > > Approved:
> > >
> > > Cocoa
> > > C++03 or less
> > >
> > > Open:
> > >
> > > JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment
> and
> > > using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
> > > .net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
> > > Silverlight
> > > One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there legitimate
> > > differences between the two was the question)
> > >
> > > Allen
> > >
> > >
> > > On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com)
> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not
> available
> > > on
> > > their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no
> > > longer
> > > the
> > > case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
> > >
> > > And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is
> > > still
> > > supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses
> > > it
> > > except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote
> about
> > > that too.
> > >
> > > Have fun,
> > > JensG
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > From: James E. King III
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
> > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> > >
> > > We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
> > > lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
> > > (build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
> > > against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
> > > whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
> > > really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still
> on
> > > .NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
> > >
> > > - Jim
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> > > > should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> > > > Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework
> > > > can
> > > > run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> > > > forward looking stuff.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5.
> > > > > The
> > > > > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two
> projects.
> > > > > Do
> > > > > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> > > > >
> > > > > - Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Randy Abernethy
> > > > Managing Partner
> > > > RX-M, LLC
> > > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > > o 415-800-2922
> > > > c 415-624-6447
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > Randy Abernethy
> > Managing Partner
> > RX-M, LLC
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > o 415-800-2922
> > c 415-624-6447
> >
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Randy Abernethy
> Managing Partner
> RX-M, LLC
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> o 415-800-2922
> c 415-624-6447
>
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by "James E. King III" <jk...@apache.org>.
The nuget package I published for 0.12.0 contains a build for net35, net45,
and netstandard2.0.
This means .NET Framework for Windows Desktop v3.5 and v4.5 as well as .NET
Standard 2.0.
There are some optimizations that we use in net45 (they came in net40
actually) that are not
available in net35, hence to two targets. Then the lib/netcore stuff was
made and has separated
from lib/csharp and there have been some changes, but it doesn't look like
a ton. I assume some
of the changes take advantage of new things in netstandard.
All I am suggesting is that net35 is long in the tooth, and folks can use
0.12.0 to work with it,
and that we consider having only net45 or netstandard*.* (version to be
decided; we're on 2.0
at the moment and we likely don't require 2.0). I'm not as convinced
someone could use netstandard
with a windows desktop app - that's .NET Framework and quite different and
that's what lib/csharp provides.
Ideally we'll get to a point where there's only one C# implementation
again, but I'm not sure
how quickly that will happen. In the meantime we have to be careful that
changes made
in one that are applicable to the other get done. It would be a good idea
to analyze what's been
changed to make sure nothing has been missed.
- Jim
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 2:07 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
wrote:
> Ya, I think that is a prereq for sure.
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:01 AM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Can we make sure all fixes to the C# bindings made in the meantime are
> also
> > in netcore? Otherwise I'm against it.
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > From: Randy Abernethy
> > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 2:34 AM
> > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> >
> > @jking yes /lib/netcore is the .Net Core impl, I am suggesting we
> > ultimately remove /lib/csharp, which is the .Net Framework impl. I am
> > _not_ suggesting we just del it, I am suggesting we direct all new
> > contrib to netcore and stop taking pulls for csharp and create an
> > incentive to port everything in C# missing from netcore (simple in
> > most cases I've looked at).
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Allen George <al...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
> > >
> > > Approved:
> > >
> > > Cocoa
> > > C++03 or less
> > >
> > > Open:
> > >
> > > JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment
> and
> > > using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
> > > .net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
> > > Silverlight
> > > One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there legitimate
> > > differences between the two was the question)
> > >
> > > Allen
> > >
> > >
> > > On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com)
> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not
> available
> > > on
> > > their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no longer
> > > the
> > > case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
> > >
> > > And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is still
> > > supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses it
> > > except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote
> about
> > > that too.
> > >
> > > Have fun,
> > > JensG
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > From: James E. King III
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
> > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> > >
> > > We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
> > > lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
> > > (build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
> > > against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
> > > whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
> > > really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still
> on
> > > .NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
> > >
> > > - Jim
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> > > > should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> > > > Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework can
> > > > run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> > > > forward looking stuff.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5. The
> > > > > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two
> projects.
> > > > > Do
> > > > > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> > > > >
> > > > > - Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Randy Abernethy
> > > > Managing Partner
> > > > RX-M, LLC
> > > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > > o 415-800-2922
> > > > c 415-624-6447
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > Randy Abernethy
> > Managing Partner
> > RX-M, LLC
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > o 415-800-2922
> > c 415-624-6447
> >
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Randy Abernethy
> Managing Partner
> RX-M, LLC
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> o 415-800-2922
> c 415-624-6447
>
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>.
Ya, I think that is a prereq for sure.
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:01 AM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Can we make sure all fixes to the C# bindings made in the meantime are also
> in netcore? Otherwise I'm against it.
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> From: Randy Abernethy
> Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 2:34 AM
> To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
>
> @jking yes /lib/netcore is the .Net Core impl, I am suggesting we
> ultimately remove /lib/csharp, which is the .Net Framework impl. I am
> _not_ suggesting we just del it, I am suggesting we direct all new
> contrib to netcore and stop taking pulls for csharp and create an
> incentive to port everything in C# missing from netcore (simple in
> most cases I've looked at).
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Allen George <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
> >
> > Approved:
> >
> > Cocoa
> > C++03 or less
> >
> > Open:
> >
> > JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment and
> > using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
> > .net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
> > Silverlight
> > One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there legitimate
> > differences between the two was the question)
> >
> > Allen
> >
> >
> > On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com) wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not available
> > on
> > their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no longer
> > the
> > case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
> >
> > And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is still
> > supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses it
> > except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote about
> > that too.
> >
> > Have fun,
> > JensG
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > From: James E. King III
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
> > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
> >
> > We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
> > lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
> > (build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
> > against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
> > whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
> > really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still on
> > .NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
> >
> > - Jim
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> > > should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> > > Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework can
> > > run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> > > forward looking stuff.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5. The
> > > > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two projects.
> > > > Do
> > > > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> > > >
> > > > - Jim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > --
> > > Randy Abernethy
> > > Managing Partner
> > > RX-M, LLC
> > > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > > o 415-800-2922
> > > c 415-624-6447
> > >
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Randy Abernethy
> Managing Partner
> RX-M, LLC
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> o 415-800-2922
> c 415-624-6447
>
--
--
Randy Abernethy
Managing Partner
RX-M, LLC
randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
o 415-800-2922
c 415-624-6447
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com>.
Can we make sure all fixes to the C# bindings made in the meantime are also
in netcore? Otherwise I'm against it.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
From: Randy Abernethy
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 2:34 AM
To: dev@thrift.apache.org
Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
@jking yes /lib/netcore is the .Net Core impl, I am suggesting we
ultimately remove /lib/csharp, which is the .Net Framework impl. I am
_not_ suggesting we just del it, I am suggesting we direct all new
contrib to netcore and stop taking pulls for csharp and create an
incentive to port everything in C# missing from netcore (simple in
most cases I've looked at).
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Allen George <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
>
> Approved:
>
> Cocoa
> C++03 or less
>
> Open:
>
> JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment and
> using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
> .net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
> Silverlight
> One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there legitimate
> differences between the two was the question)
>
> Allen
>
>
> On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not available
> on
> their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no longer
> the
> case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
>
> And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is still
> supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses it
> except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote about
> that too.
>
> Have fun,
> JensG
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> From: James E. King III
> Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
> To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
>
> We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
> lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
> (build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
> against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
> whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
> really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still on
> .NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
>
> - Jim
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
> wrote:
>
> > While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> > should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> > Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework can
> > run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> > forward looking stuff.
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5. The
> > > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two projects.
> > > Do
> > > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> > >
> > > - Jim
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > Randy Abernethy
> > Managing Partner
> > RX-M, LLC
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > o 415-800-2922
> > c 415-624-6447
> >
--
--
Randy Abernethy
Managing Partner
RX-M, LLC
randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
o 415-800-2922
c 415-624-6447
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>.
@jking yes /lib/netcore is the .Net Core impl, I am suggesting we
ultimately remove /lib/csharp, which is the .Net Framework impl. I am
_not_ suggesting we just del it, I am suggesting we direct all new
contrib to netcore and stop taking pulls for csharp and create an
incentive to port everything in C# missing from netcore (simple in
most cases I've looked at).
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Allen George <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
>
> Approved:
>
> Cocoa
> C++03 or less
>
> Open:
>
> JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment and
> using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
> .net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
> Silverlight
> One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there legitimate
> differences between the two was the question)
>
> Allen
>
>
> On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not available
> on
> their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no longer the
> case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
>
> And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is still
> supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses it
> except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote about
> that too.
>
> Have fun,
> JensG
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> From: James E. King III
> Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
> To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
>
> We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
> lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
> (build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
> against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
> whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
> really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still on
> .NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
>
> - Jim
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
> wrote:
>
> > While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> > should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> > Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework can
> > run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> > forward looking stuff.
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5. The
> > > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two projects.
> > > Do
> > > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> > >
> > > - Jim
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > Randy Abernethy
> > Managing Partner
> > RX-M, LLC
> > randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> > o 415-800-2922
> > c 415-624-6447
> >
--
--
Randy Abernethy
Managing Partner
RX-M, LLC
randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
o 415-800-2922
c 415-624-6447
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by Allen George <al...@gmail.com>.
So, just to be clear, proposed language removals are:
Approved:
Cocoa
C++03 or less
Open:
JavaME (potential; I’ll look at setting up an Android CI environment and
using the standard Java lib there to see if it’s feasible)
.net 4.5 or less (no vote yet)
Silverlight
One of nodets/ts (can we end up only with one, or are there legitimate
differences between the two was the question)
Allen
On January 2, 2019 at 15:55:41, Jens Geyer (jensgeyer@hotmail.com) wrote:
Hi,
start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not available
on
their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no longer the
case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is still
supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses it
except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote about
that too.
Have fun,
JensG
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
From: James E. King III
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
To: dev@thrift.apache.org
Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
(build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still on
.NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
- Jim
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
wrote:
> While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework can
> run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> forward looking stuff.
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org>
wrote:
> >
> > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5. The
> > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two projects.
> > Do
> > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> >
> > - Jim
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Randy Abernethy
> Managing Partner
> RX-M, LLC
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> o 415-800-2922
> c 415-624-6447
>
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com>.
Hi,
start a vote. A while ago some people claimed that 4.5+ was not available on
their particular subset of Mono. I tend to think that this is no longer the
case anymore, so we should drop anything below 4.5.
And since wer'e at it: Same for Silverlight, if you ask me. It is still
supported until 2012 by Microsoft, but I doubt if anyone really uses it
except for maintaining legacy projects. Maybe we should have a vote about
that too.
Have fun,
JensG
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
From: James E. King III
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:08 PM
To: dev@thrift.apache.org
Subject: Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
(build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still on
.NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
- Jim
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
wrote:
> While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework can
> run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> forward looking stuff.
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5. The
> > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two projects.
> > Do
> > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> >
> > - Jim
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Randy Abernethy
> Managing Partner
> RX-M, LLC
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> o 415-800-2922
> c 415-624-6447
>
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by "James E. King III" <jk...@apache.org>.
We already support netstandard2.0 (.NET Core SDK 2.0) and build
lib/netcore and run cross tests with that. The docker build image
(build/docker/ubuntu-bionic/Dockerfile) defines the version we build
against. I was wondering about the .NET 3.5 in lib/csharp and
whether we really need a 3.5 and a 4.5 csproj. It's not a big deal
really, just a small simplification, but if a lot of people are still on
.NET 3.5 then we may decide not to remove support for it yet.
- Jim
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>
wrote:
> While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
> should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
> Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework can
> run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
> forward looking stuff.
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5. The
> > differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two projects. Do
> > we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
> >
> > - Jim
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Randy Abernethy
> Managing Partner
> RX-M, LLC
> randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
> o 415-800-2922
> c 415-624-6447
>
Re: Support for lib/csharp .NET Framework before 4.5?
Posted by Randy Abernethy <ra...@rx-m.com>.
While we're in the process of dropping old lang vers, I think we
should consider only tracking the latest version of .Net Core (2.2).
Core is CLI build friendly and cross platform. The .Net Framework can
run all Core apps AFAIK so no loss in dropping the Framework for
forward looking stuff.
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:24 AM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> We currently have two projects to support.NET 3.5 and .NET 4.5. The
> differences are minor but it causes us to have to build two projects. Do
> we need to continue to maintain support for .NET < 4.5 ?
>
> - Jim
--
--
Randy Abernethy
Managing Partner
RX-M, LLC
randy.abernethy@rx-m.com
o 415-800-2922
c 415-624-6447