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Posted to dev@ofbiz.apache.org by Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org> on 2019/06/13 05:22:20 UTC
Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Hi team,
It seems reply-to address configuration is missing for some emails from dev
and user mailing list (for reference see *Removing support for global
"ofbiz-containers.xml"*) while I can still find it on the notifications
mailing list.
Anyone having any idea about it?
Thanks and regards,
Aditya Sharma
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Richard Siddall <ri...@elirion.net>.
Should the reply-to header be the list address or the address of the
person whose post you are replying to?
Richard.
Deepak Dixit wrote:
> I think we can ask infra to add reply-to header for all the mailing list.
> Here is the reference infra ticket
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18478
>
> Thanks & Regards
> --
> Deepak Dixit
> ofbiz.apache.org
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:33 PM Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Jacques
>>
>> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>>
>>> 1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this
>>> answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are
>>> required as committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML
>>> emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually
>>> I have 263 such filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about
>>> you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So
>>> please guys, we don't need a copy ;)
>>
>> Asking every person on that list to remember your personnal preferences
>> and requiring them to manually remove your email address from recipients
>> when using “Replying all” does not scale. :-)
>>
>> Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to: dev@ofbiz.apache.org”
>> in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
>> allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
>> preferences.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Mathieu Lirzin
>> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>>
>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Deepak Dixit <de...@apache.org>.
I think we can ask infra to add reply-to header for all the mailing list.
Here is the reference infra ticket
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18478
Thanks & Regards
--
Deepak Dixit
ofbiz.apache.org
On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:33 PM Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>
wrote:
> Hello Jacques
>
> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>
> > 1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this
> > answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are
> > required as committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML
> > emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually
> > I have 263 such filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about
> > you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So
> > please guys, we don't need a copy ;)
>
> Asking every person on that list to remember your personnal preferences
> and requiring them to manually remove your email address from recipients
> when using “Replying all” does not scale. :-)
>
> Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to: dev@ofbiz.apache.org”
> in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
> allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
> preferences.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Mathieu Lirzin
> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Suraj Khurana <su...@hotwax.co>.
Hello,
I think if someone clicked on reply button, the originator of the email
should not be included directly in 'To'. This ia common industry best
practice. I am inclined with Aditya's thought here.
--
Best Regards,
Suraj Khurana
Technical Consultant
On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 6:49 PM Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>
wrote:
> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>
> > Le 13/06/2019 à 13:02, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
> >> Hello Jacques
> >>
> >> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
> >>
> >>> 1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this
> >>> answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are
> >>> required as committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML
> >>> emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually
> >>> I have 263 such filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about
> >>> you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So
> >>> please guys, we don't need a copy ;)
> >> Asking every person on that list to remember your personnal preferences
> >> and requiring them to manually remove your email address from recipients
> >> when using “Replying all” does not scale. :-)
> >
> > Actually we should never use “Replying all” when replying to an ML.
> > Else you get these useless and annoying duplicates not filtered, that's
> what I meant.
>
> If you have duplicates, then it's a bug in the mailing-list software
> that should be reported to INFRA. The right thing would be to not
> resend an email to user both present in the recipients and subscribed to
> a list (GNU Mailman is doing that).
>
> > We should use "Replied to List" when it exists. It appears for me in
> Thunderbird when fitting.
> > I hope other email clients and webmails are allowing the same.
> > I guess for that the reply-to value must be set to dev@ofbiz.apache.org
> and Infra can handle that.
> > It was working for a very long time and I suddenly these burst of
> duplicates, as Aditya found, don't you?
>
> Asking people to use “Reply to list” would be acceptable if we were
> assuming that everybody participating in the discussion is subscribed to
> the mailing-list which is only partially true in our case, given our
> current process which consist of accepting email from non-subscribed
> users but yelling at them for not not being subscribed.
>
> >> Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to:
> dev@ofbiz.apache.org”
> >> in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
> >> allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
> >> preferences.
> >
> > I don't agree, as an ASF member I reply to a lot of MLs. I don't want to
> be bothered by that for all of them.
> > Deepak's answer with INFRA-18478 seems to be the way we should handle
> that.
>
> I often don't want to cut the grass in my garden, but sometimes I have
> too. ;-)
>
> If you have a huge pile of ML subscriptions (50? 100?), you can
> configure your email client incrementally each time you send an email to
> a list that is not already configured and someday they will eventually
> all be properly configured. \o/
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Mathieu Lirzin
> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>.
Hello Jacques,
Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
> Le 14/06/2019 à 11:03, Aditya Sharma a écrit :
>> The sole purpose of the mailing list is served only when the emails are
>> sent on the list so reply being its primary action need to point to the
>> list only.
>
> Do we need a vote here to temporarily adopt the not optimal solution
> (as in INFRA-18478), Mathieu?
IMO There is no need to vote formally, it appears that my arguments
didn't convince anyone (except you who wanted to think more about it).
So let's go for the “wrong” solution for now. :-)
> And should we create a specific thread to decide on what do as optimal
> (ie based on a consensus or even a vote)?
>
> Please refer to the links I posted above as food for thoughts, I copy them here:
>
> http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
> http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html
Thanks.
--
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 14/06/2019 à 11:03, Aditya Sharma a écrit :
> The sole purpose of the mailing list is served only when the emails are
> sent on the list so reply being its primary action need to point to the
> list only.
Though I don't think
"The sole purpose of the mailing list is served only when the emails are sent on the list"
and I don't like much statistics (percentage of other uses here), I tend to agree with you Aditya.
I rarely answer directly to a person before exchanging with her/him and then sending to the dev ML.
And when I do that I simply use "Reply All" and remove the dev ML before sending.
I must though say that I'm lucky to use Thunderbird which has the "Reply list" button (not OOTB IIRW).
So I'm able to never send a respond to dev ML, AND other people, in much cases.
But at the moment those who have not a such functionality at hand and want the same (reply only to list) must manually change things.
It's a bummer when you have other more important things to think about and do.
Do we need a vote here to temporarily adopt the not optimal solution (as in INFRA-18478), Mathieu?
And should we create a specific thread to decide on what do as optimal (ie based on a consensus or even a vote)?
Please refer to the links I posted above as food for thoughts, I copy them here:
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html
Thanks
Jacques
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org>.
>> Answering myself: maybe we can ask infra to add reply-to as in
INFRA-18478 while we discuss a better solution.
+1
>> For instance, I received 2 versions (one to the dev ML, one directly to
me) from (almost?) all people welcoming Pawan and Deepak.
>> As it does not make sense to filter emails sent directly to me, all
those messages (both of them) end in my main inbox folder and I have to put
them manually in OFBiz.
Exactly. This way, we cannot ensure that people will exclude personal email
ids from reply-all and using reply it will always send the email
personally.
The sole purpose of the mailing list is served only when the emails are
sent on the list so reply being its primary action need to point to the
list only.
My 2 cents
Thanks and regards,
Aditya Sharma
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 1:30 PM Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> Hi Mathieu, All,
>
> I think it's an important discussion, but I fear there will be a lot of
> bikeshedding too
>
> Le 13/06/2019 à 15:19, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
> > Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
> >
> >> Le 13/06/2019 à 13:02, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
> >> Actually we should never use “Replying all” when replying to an ML.
> >> Else you get these useless and annoying duplicates not filtered, that's
> what I meant.
> > If you have duplicates, then it's a bug in the mailing-list software
> > that should be reported to INFRA. The right thing would be to not
> > resend an email to user both present in the recipients and subscribed to
> > a list (GNU Mailman is doing that).
>
> By duplicates I mean emails sent to the dev ML and to me directly. That
> depends mostly on sender I guess.
>
> For instance, I received 2 versions (one to the dev ML, one directly to
> me) from (almost?) all people welcoming Pawan and Deepak.
> As it does not make sense to filter emails sent directly to me, all those
> messages (both of them) end in my main inbox folder and I have to put them
> manually in OFBiz.
> I'd prefer to remove the duplicates (the ones sent directly to me) but
> it's too much work.
> So I now have twice the size in this folder. As I keep archives of all
> messages for easier later searches it's a real problem for future (13.8 Go,
> for
> all msgs today)
>
>
> >
> >> We should use "Replied to List" when it exists. It appears for me in
> Thunderbird when fitting.
> >> I hope other email clients and webmails are allowing the same.
> >> I guess for that the reply-to value must be set to dev@ofbiz.apache.org
> and Infra can handle that.
> >> It was working for a very long time and I suddenly these burst of
> duplicates, as Aditya found, don't you?
> > Asking people to use “Reply to list” would be acceptable if we were
> > assuming that everybody participating in the discussion is subscribed to
> > the mailing-list which is only partially true in our case, given our
> > current process which consist of accepting email from non-subscribed
> > users but yelling at them for not not being subscribed.
>
> As a moderator I think we don't chastise enough people sending mails to
> the MLs w/o being subscribed! :D
>
> Joke aside, I understand the "duplicates" issue depends on senders.
> And (it seems?) only people using Thunderbird have the opportunity to have
> a Reply-to-list button, based on List-Post header[1][2] So when they reply
> using Reply-to they send 2 emails.
>
> [1] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2369.txt
> [2] https://github.com/k9mail/k-9/issues/2588
>
> The ASF uses ezmlm, http://untroubled.org recommends (
> https://untroubled.org/ezmlmmanual/Replying.html)
>
> <<to type in the list address by hand or to use the “Reply-to-all”
> function of your mail reader>>
>
> I'm unsure, but it seems to me that I used “Reply-to” for years to send
> back only to the OFBiz MLs, before I had to turn to Reply to List and
> “Reply-to-all” (which fits to me. For me the problem is others senders)
> So I guess then we had the setting "Reply-To: list@host" maybe as (not
> recommended) in[3] and as suggested by Deepak.
>
> [3]
> http://untroubled.org/ezmlm/faq/Setting-Reply_002dTo-list_0040host.html#Setting-Reply_002dTo-list_0040host
>
>
> >>> Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to:
> dev@ofbiz.apache.org”
> >>> in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
> >>> allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
> >>> preferences.
>
> You mean that I do it once for a message to a list and then it's OK for
> all further messages to this list?
> I'm not even sure how to do that in Thunderbird :/
> And I want something quick to answer. A button to click, not to have to
> select in a drop-down or such. I pass already much time answering...
>
> Anyway I need to read carefully
> http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
> and
> http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html
>
> Before giving my opinion
>
> >> I don't agree, as an ASF member I reply to a lot of MLs. I don't want
> to be bothered by that for all of them.
> >> Deepak's answer with INFRA-18478 seems to be the way we should handle
> that.
> > I often don't want to cut the grass in my garden, but sometimes I have
> > too. ;-)
> >
> > If you have a huge pile of ML subscriptions (50? 100?), you can
> > configure your email client incrementally each time you send an email to
> > a list that is not already configured and someday they will eventually
> > all be properly configured. \o/
> >
> > Thanks.
> I tried but could not find a way in a reasonable time
>
> Jacques
>
>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
BTW, I also receive duplicates from myself when sending to some OFBiz MLs like private or security. I'm eager to set Thunderbird to avoid that :)
Le 18/06/2019 à 14:09, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
> Hi All,
>
> I read all articles and I agree with Mathieu and Paul.
>
> Here are my conclusions.
>
> TL;DR: like Mathieu and Paul said, it's not a list problem it's a sender problem. But the devil is in the details...
>
> More about that:
>
> I use Reply to list in Thunderbird, because I was forced to do so at some point. I can't exactly remember when and I did not think much about it
> then. Just that it was convenient for me. I was certainly using either Reply to all or Reply to before, I can't remember clearly.
>
> Reading http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html I know understand the implications of using Reply to list (when it's available). It's not fair
> for users who are not subscribed (but damn they earn it! :p).
>
> So as mentioned by Mathieu[1], there is a better solution than Reply to list in Thunderbird. BTW I financially support Thunderbird from time to
> time, hopefully it will live long.
> But [2] shows that it's the only MUA (Mail User Agent) doing so completely. And we don't know about webmail, notably Gmail!
>
> Now come some questions:
>
> I suspect users with Gmail are simply using Reply All when they involuntarilysend "duplicates" (1 to list, another directly to initial sender).
> I got much of them when I sent
> "Welcome to Pawan Verma as new committer!"
> and "Welcome to Deepak Nigam as new committer!"
>
> It seems this behaviour changed in 2011[3], and there is not much choice about it[4]
>
> So at this stage I'm not for changing things.
> Even adding "Mail-Followup-To" in header is not recommended[5].
>
> <<Should my mailing list manager set up Mail-Followup-To?
> No. This would prevent non-subscribers from receiving copies of messages. It would fragment cross-posted discussions, sending some followups to
> your list alone while other followups are sent to both lists. You should leave Mail-Followup-To control in the hands of the original author. >>
>
> I still can add it in Thunderbird though[5] \o/. For Gmail I don't know if there is a solution. Maybe extensions in Chrome (I guess Gmail users use
> the whole Alphabet's panoply)?
>
> [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Help_Documentation:Mail-Followup-To_and_Mail-Reply-To#Configure_Thunderbird
> [2] https://www.leptonite.org/mft/software.html
> [3] https://ask.metafilter.com/180457/gmail-reply-all-wierdness-with-mailing-lists
> [4] https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/37046/making-gmail-to-use-reply-all-automatically-in-mailing-list-replies
> [5] http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html
>
> I would add a -0.2 to Paul's vote if necessary :)
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 17/06/2019 à 14:24, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>> Thanks Mathieu and Paul,
>>
>> I began to prepare a formal answer to Mathieu, now I have to read 3 more articles before formally answering :D
>>
>> At least I have made my mind up
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 17/06/2019 à 04:00, Paul Foxworthy a écrit :
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Please do not set reply-to.
>>>
>>> I agree with Mathieu and Jacques, and the sentiment in
>>> http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html .
>>>
>>> In a formal vote I would want to say -0.8: if absolutely everybody was in
>>> favour, I could live with it, but it is still a bad idea. We are talking
>>> about guarding against mistakes, either sending to the list when the intent
>>> was to communicate with only one person, or the other way around. If
>>> someone mistakenly sends to just one person, the damage is minimal - the
>>> recipient may well notice and say "hey, did you intend this to go to the
>>> list?". A personal message mistakenly sent to the list could be much more
>>> embarrassing and damaging.
>>>
>>> I administer another mailing list for a non-profit group and this issue has
>>> cropped up. We added to the footer of the messages "Reply will send a
>>> response to the sender. Please use Reply To All to send a response to the
>>> list." That seemed to satisfy everyone.
>>>
>>> I have no problem with additional headers that some email clients might
>>> understand.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Paul Foxworthy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 at 20:08, Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Jacques,
>>>>
>>>> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 13/06/2019 à 15:19, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
>>>>>> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't agree, as an ASF member I reply to a lot of MLs. I don't want
>>>> to be bothered by that for all of them.
>>>>>>> Deepak's answer with INFRA-18478 seems to be the way we should handle
>>>> that.
>>>>>> If you have a huge pile of ML subscriptions (50? 100?), you can
>>>>>> configure your email client incrementally each time you send an email to
>>>>>> a list that is not already configured and someday they will eventually
>>>>>> all be properly configured. \o/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> I tried but could not find a way in a reasonable time
>>>> After doing some research I have found a documentation [1] which is not
>>>> directly about setting the ‘Reply-to’ header but the ‘Mail-Followup-To’
>>>> and ‘Mail-Reply-To’ headers which are workarounds for the “reply-to
>>>> munging” done by mailing-lists [2].
>>>>
>>>> After configuring Thunderbird this way, people using Mail User Agents
>>>> (MUA) understanding those headers [3] will not have to remember to
>>>> remove you from the recipient list when responding to the list.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't found any information regarding Gmail or other Webmail
>>>> clients, but hopefully they understand those headers too.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Help_Documentation:Mail-Followup-To_and_Mail-Reply-To
>>>> [2] http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html
>>>> [3] https://www.leptonite.org/mft/software.html
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mathieu Lirzin
>>>> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Hi All,
I read all articles and I agree with Mathieu and Paul.
Here are my conclusions.
TL;DR: like Mathieu and Paul said, it's not a list problem it's a sender problem. But the devil is in the details...
More about that:
I use Reply to list in Thunderbird, because I was forced to do so at some point. I can't exactly remember when and I did not think much about it then.
Just that it was convenient for me. I was certainly using either Reply to all or Reply to before, I can't remember clearly.
Reading http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html I know understand the implications of using Reply to list (when it's available). It's not fair for
users who are not subscribed (but damn they earn it! :p).
So as mentioned by Mathieu[1], there is a better solution than Reply to list in Thunderbird. BTW I financially support Thunderbird from time to time,
hopefully it will live long.
But [2] shows that it's the only MUA (Mail User Agent) doing so completely. And we don't know about webmail, notably Gmail!
Now come some questions:
I suspect users with Gmail are simply using Reply All when they involuntarilysend "duplicates" (1 to list, another directly to initial sender).
I got much of them when I sent
"Welcome to Pawan Verma as new committer!"
and "Welcome to Deepak Nigam as new committer!"
It seems this behaviour changed in 2011[3], and there is not much choice about it[4]
So at this stage I'm not for changing things.
Even adding "Mail-Followup-To" in header is not recommended[5].
<<Should my mailing list manager set up Mail-Followup-To?
No. This would prevent non-subscribers from receiving copies of messages. It would fragment cross-posted discussions, sending some followups to
your list alone while other followups are sent to both lists. You should leave Mail-Followup-To control in the hands of the original author. >>
I still can add it in Thunderbird though[5] \o/. For Gmail I don't know if there is a solution. Maybe extensions in Chrome (I guess Gmail users use
the whole Alphabet's panoply)?
[1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Help_Documentation:Mail-Followup-To_and_Mail-Reply-To#Configure_Thunderbird
[2] https://www.leptonite.org/mft/software.html
[3] https://ask.metafilter.com/180457/gmail-reply-all-wierdness-with-mailing-lists
[4] https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/37046/making-gmail-to-use-reply-all-automatically-in-mailing-list-replies
[5] http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html
I would add a -0.2 to Paul's vote if necessary :)
Jacques
Le 17/06/2019 à 14:24, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
> Thanks Mathieu and Paul,
>
> I began to prepare a formal answer to Mathieu, now I have to read 3 more articles before formally answering :D
>
> At least I have made my mind up
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 17/06/2019 à 04:00, Paul Foxworthy a écrit :
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Please do not set reply-to.
>>
>> I agree with Mathieu and Jacques, and the sentiment in
>> http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html .
>>
>> In a formal vote I would want to say -0.8: if absolutely everybody was in
>> favour, I could live with it, but it is still a bad idea. We are talking
>> about guarding against mistakes, either sending to the list when the intent
>> was to communicate with only one person, or the other way around. If
>> someone mistakenly sends to just one person, the damage is minimal - the
>> recipient may well notice and say "hey, did you intend this to go to the
>> list?". A personal message mistakenly sent to the list could be much more
>> embarrassing and damaging.
>>
>> I administer another mailing list for a non-profit group and this issue has
>> cropped up. We added to the footer of the messages "Reply will send a
>> response to the sender. Please use Reply To All to send a response to the
>> list." That seemed to satisfy everyone.
>>
>> I have no problem with additional headers that some email clients might
>> understand.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Paul Foxworthy
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 at 20:08, Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Jacques,
>>>
>>> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Le 13/06/2019 à 15:19, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
>>>>> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't agree, as an ASF member I reply to a lot of MLs. I don't want
>>> to be bothered by that for all of them.
>>>>>> Deepak's answer with INFRA-18478 seems to be the way we should handle
>>> that.
>>>>> If you have a huge pile of ML subscriptions (50? 100?), you can
>>>>> configure your email client incrementally each time you send an email to
>>>>> a list that is not already configured and someday they will eventually
>>>>> all be properly configured. \o/
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>> I tried but could not find a way in a reasonable time
>>> After doing some research I have found a documentation [1] which is not
>>> directly about setting the ‘Reply-to’ header but the ‘Mail-Followup-To’
>>> and ‘Mail-Reply-To’ headers which are workarounds for the “reply-to
>>> munging” done by mailing-lists [2].
>>>
>>> After configuring Thunderbird this way, people using Mail User Agents
>>> (MUA) understanding those headers [3] will not have to remember to
>>> remove you from the recipient list when responding to the list.
>>>
>>> I haven't found any information regarding Gmail or other Webmail
>>> clients, but hopefully they understand those headers too.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Help_Documentation:Mail-Followup-To_and_Mail-Reply-To
>>> [2] http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html
>>> [3] https://www.leptonite.org/mft/software.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mathieu Lirzin
>>> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>>>
>>
>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Thanks Mathieu and Paul,
I began to prepare a formal answer to Mathieu, now I have to read 3 more articles before formally answering :D
At least I have made my mind up
Jacques
Le 17/06/2019 à 04:00, Paul Foxworthy a écrit :
> Hi all,
>
> Please do not set reply-to.
>
> I agree with Mathieu and Jacques, and the sentiment in
> http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html .
>
> In a formal vote I would want to say -0.8: if absolutely everybody was in
> favour, I could live with it, but it is still a bad idea. We are talking
> about guarding against mistakes, either sending to the list when the intent
> was to communicate with only one person, or the other way around. If
> someone mistakenly sends to just one person, the damage is minimal - the
> recipient may well notice and say "hey, did you intend this to go to the
> list?". A personal message mistakenly sent to the list could be much more
> embarrassing and damaging.
>
> I administer another mailing list for a non-profit group and this issue has
> cropped up. We added to the footer of the messages "Reply will send a
> response to the sender. Please use Reply To All to send a response to the
> list." That seemed to satisfy everyone.
>
> I have no problem with additional headers that some email clients might
> understand.
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul Foxworthy
>
>
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 at 20:08, Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Jacques,
>>
>> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>>
>>> Le 13/06/2019 à 15:19, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
>>>> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't agree, as an ASF member I reply to a lot of MLs. I don't want
>> to be bothered by that for all of them.
>>>>> Deepak's answer with INFRA-18478 seems to be the way we should handle
>> that.
>>>> If you have a huge pile of ML subscriptions (50? 100?), you can
>>>> configure your email client incrementally each time you send an email to
>>>> a list that is not already configured and someday they will eventually
>>>> all be properly configured. \o/
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>> I tried but could not find a way in a reasonable time
>> After doing some research I have found a documentation [1] which is not
>> directly about setting the ‘Reply-to’ header but the ‘Mail-Followup-To’
>> and ‘Mail-Reply-To’ headers which are workarounds for the “reply-to
>> munging” done by mailing-lists [2].
>>
>> After configuring Thunderbird this way, people using Mail User Agents
>> (MUA) understanding those headers [3] will not have to remember to
>> remove you from the recipient list when responding to the list.
>>
>> I haven't found any information regarding Gmail or other Webmail
>> clients, but hopefully they understand those headers too.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Help_Documentation:Mail-Followup-To_and_Mail-Reply-To
>> [2] http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html
>> [3] https://www.leptonite.org/mft/software.html
>>
>> --
>> Mathieu Lirzin
>> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>>
>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Paul Foxworthy <pa...@cohsoft.com.au>.
Hi all,
Please do not set reply-to.
I agree with Mathieu and Jacques, and the sentiment in
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html .
In a formal vote I would want to say -0.8: if absolutely everybody was in
favour, I could live with it, but it is still a bad idea. We are talking
about guarding against mistakes, either sending to the list when the intent
was to communicate with only one person, or the other way around. If
someone mistakenly sends to just one person, the damage is minimal - the
recipient may well notice and say "hey, did you intend this to go to the
list?". A personal message mistakenly sent to the list could be much more
embarrassing and damaging.
I administer another mailing list for a non-profit group and this issue has
cropped up. We added to the footer of the messages "Reply will send a
response to the sender. Please use Reply To All to send a response to the
list." That seemed to satisfy everyone.
I have no problem with additional headers that some email clients might
understand.
Cheers
Paul Foxworthy
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 at 20:08, Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>
wrote:
> Hello Jacques,
>
> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>
> > Le 13/06/2019 à 15:19, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
> >> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
> >>
> >>> I don't agree, as an ASF member I reply to a lot of MLs. I don't want
> to be bothered by that for all of them.
> >>> Deepak's answer with INFRA-18478 seems to be the way we should handle
> that.
> >>
> >> If you have a huge pile of ML subscriptions (50? 100?), you can
> >> configure your email client incrementally each time you send an email to
> >> a list that is not already configured and someday they will eventually
> >> all be properly configured. \o/
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> > I tried but could not find a way in a reasonable time
>
> After doing some research I have found a documentation [1] which is not
> directly about setting the ‘Reply-to’ header but the ‘Mail-Followup-To’
> and ‘Mail-Reply-To’ headers which are workarounds for the “reply-to
> munging” done by mailing-lists [2].
>
> After configuring Thunderbird this way, people using Mail User Agents
> (MUA) understanding those headers [3] will not have to remember to
> remove you from the recipient list when responding to the list.
>
> I haven't found any information regarding Gmail or other Webmail
> clients, but hopefully they understand those headers too.
>
> Thanks.
>
> [1]
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Help_Documentation:Mail-Followup-To_and_Mail-Reply-To
> [2] http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html
> [3] https://www.leptonite.org/mft/software.html
>
> --
> Mathieu Lirzin
> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>
--
Coherent Software Australia Pty Ltd
PO Box 2773
Cheltenham Vic 3192
Australia
Phone: +61 3 9585 6788
Web: http://www.coherentsoftware.com.au/
Email: info@coherentsoftware.com.au
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>.
Hello Jacques,
Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
> Le 13/06/2019 à 15:19, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
>> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>>
>>> I don't agree, as an ASF member I reply to a lot of MLs. I don't want to be bothered by that for all of them.
>>> Deepak's answer with INFRA-18478 seems to be the way we should handle that.
>>
>> If you have a huge pile of ML subscriptions (50? 100?), you can
>> configure your email client incrementally each time you send an email to
>> a list that is not already configured and someday they will eventually
>> all be properly configured. \o/
>>
>> Thanks.
> I tried but could not find a way in a reasonable time
After doing some research I have found a documentation [1] which is not
directly about setting the ‘Reply-to’ header but the ‘Mail-Followup-To’
and ‘Mail-Reply-To’ headers which are workarounds for the “reply-to
munging” done by mailing-lists [2].
After configuring Thunderbird this way, people using Mail User Agents
(MUA) understanding those headers [3] will not have to remember to
remove you from the recipient list when responding to the list.
I haven't found any information regarding Gmail or other Webmail
clients, but hopefully they understand those headers too.
Thanks.
[1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Help_Documentation:Mail-Followup-To_and_Mail-Reply-To
[2] http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html
[3] https://www.leptonite.org/mft/software.html
--
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Hi Mathieu, All,
I think it's an important discussion, but I fear there will be a lot of bikeshedding too
Le 13/06/2019 à 15:19, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>
>> Le 13/06/2019 à 13:02, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
>> Actually we should never use “Replying all” when replying to an ML.
>> Else you get these useless and annoying duplicates not filtered, that's what I meant.
> If you have duplicates, then it's a bug in the mailing-list software
> that should be reported to INFRA. The right thing would be to not
> resend an email to user both present in the recipients and subscribed to
> a list (GNU Mailman is doing that).
By duplicates I mean emails sent to the dev ML and to me directly. That depends mostly on sender I guess.
For instance, I received 2 versions (one to the dev ML, one directly to me) from (almost?) all people welcoming Pawan and Deepak.
As it does not make sense to filter emails sent directly to me, all those messages (both of them) end in my main inbox folder and I have to put them
manually in OFBiz.
I'd prefer to remove the duplicates (the ones sent directly to me) but it's too much work.
So I now have twice the size in this folder. As I keep archives of all messages for easier later searches it's a real problem for future (13.8 Go, for
all msgs today)
>
>> We should use "Replied to List" when it exists. It appears for me in Thunderbird when fitting.
>> I hope other email clients and webmails are allowing the same.
>> I guess for that the reply-to value must be set to dev@ofbiz.apache.org and Infra can handle that.
>> It was working for a very long time and I suddenly these burst of duplicates, as Aditya found, don't you?
> Asking people to use “Reply to list” would be acceptable if we were
> assuming that everybody participating in the discussion is subscribed to
> the mailing-list which is only partially true in our case, given our
> current process which consist of accepting email from non-subscribed
> users but yelling at them for not not being subscribed.
As a moderator I think we don't chastise enough people sending mails to the MLs w/o being subscribed! :D
Joke aside, I understand the "duplicates" issue depends on senders.
And (it seems?) only people using Thunderbird have the opportunity to have a Reply-to-list button, based on List-Post header[1][2] So when they reply
using Reply-to they send 2 emails.
[1] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2369.txt
[2] https://github.com/k9mail/k-9/issues/2588
The ASF uses ezmlm, http://untroubled.org recommends (https://untroubled.org/ezmlmmanual/Replying.html)
<<to type in the list address by hand or to use the “Reply-to-all” function of your mail reader>>
I'm unsure, but it seems to me that I used “Reply-to” for years to send back only to the OFBiz MLs, before I had to turn to Reply to List and
“Reply-to-all” (which fits to me. For me the problem is others senders)
So I guess then we had the setting "Reply-To: list@host" maybe as (not recommended) in[3] and as suggested by Deepak.
[3] http://untroubled.org/ezmlm/faq/Setting-Reply_002dTo-list_0040host.html#Setting-Reply_002dTo-list_0040host
>>> Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to: dev@ofbiz.apache.org”
>>> in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
>>> allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
>>> preferences.
You mean that I do it once for a message to a list and then it's OK for all further messages to this list?
I'm not even sure how to do that in Thunderbird :/
And I want something quick to answer. A button to click, not to have to select in a drop-down or such. I pass already much time answering...
Anyway I need to read carefully
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
and
http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html
Before giving my opinion
>> I don't agree, as an ASF member I reply to a lot of MLs. I don't want to be bothered by that for all of them.
>> Deepak's answer with INFRA-18478 seems to be the way we should handle that.
> I often don't want to cut the grass in my garden, but sometimes I have
> too. ;-)
>
> If you have a huge pile of ML subscriptions (50? 100?), you can
> configure your email client incrementally each time you send an email to
> a list that is not already configured and someday they will eventually
> all be properly configured. \o/
>
> Thanks.
I tried but could not find a way in a reasonable time
Jacques
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>.
Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
> Le 13/06/2019 à 13:02, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
>> Hello Jacques
>>
>> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>>
>>> 1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this
>>> answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are
>>> required as committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML
>>> emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually
>>> I have 263 such filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about
>>> you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So
>>> please guys, we don't need a copy ;)
>> Asking every person on that list to remember your personnal preferences
>> and requiring them to manually remove your email address from recipients
>> when using “Replying all” does not scale. :-)
>
> Actually we should never use “Replying all” when replying to an ML.
> Else you get these useless and annoying duplicates not filtered, that's what I meant.
If you have duplicates, then it's a bug in the mailing-list software
that should be reported to INFRA. The right thing would be to not
resend an email to user both present in the recipients and subscribed to
a list (GNU Mailman is doing that).
> We should use "Replied to List" when it exists. It appears for me in Thunderbird when fitting.
> I hope other email clients and webmails are allowing the same.
> I guess for that the reply-to value must be set to dev@ofbiz.apache.org and Infra can handle that.
> It was working for a very long time and I suddenly these burst of duplicates, as Aditya found, don't you?
Asking people to use “Reply to list” would be acceptable if we were
assuming that everybody participating in the discussion is subscribed to
the mailing-list which is only partially true in our case, given our
current process which consist of accepting email from non-subscribed
users but yelling at them for not not being subscribed.
>> Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to: dev@ofbiz.apache.org”
>> in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
>> allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
>> preferences.
>
> I don't agree, as an ASF member I reply to a lot of MLs. I don't want to be bothered by that for all of them.
> Deepak's answer with INFRA-18478 seems to be the way we should handle that.
I often don't want to cut the grass in my garden, but sometimes I have
too. ;-)
If you have a huge pile of ML subscriptions (50? 100?), you can
configure your email client incrementally each time you send an email to
a list that is not already configured and someday they will eventually
all be properly configured. \o/
Thanks.
--
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 13/06/2019 à 13:02, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
> Hello Jacques
>
> Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
>
>> 1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this
>> answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are
>> required as committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML
>> emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually
>> I have 263 such filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about
>> you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So
>> please guys, we don't need a copy ;)
> Asking every person on that list to remember your personnal preferences
> and requiring them to manually remove your email address from recipients
> when using “Replying all” does not scale. :-)
Actually we should never use “Replying all” when replying to an ML.
Else you get these useless and annoying duplicates not filtered, that's what I meant.
We should use "Replied to List" when it exists. It appears for me in Thunderbird when fitting.
I hope other email clients and webmails are allowing the same.
I guess for that the reply-to value must be set to dev@ofbiz.apache.org and Infra can handle that.
It was working for a very long time and I suddenly these burst of duplicates, as Aditya found, don't you?
>
> Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to: dev@ofbiz.apache.org”
> in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
> allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
> preferences.
I don't agree, as an ASF member I reply to a lot of MLs. I don't want to be bothered by that for all of them.
Deepak's answer with INFRA-18478 seems to be the way we should handle that.
Jacques
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>.
Hello Jacques
Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> writes:
> 1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this
> answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are
> required as committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML
> emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually
> I have 263 such filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about
> you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So
> please guys, we don't need a copy ;)
Asking every person on that list to remember your personnal preferences
and requiring them to manually remove your email address from recipients
when using “Replying all” does not scale. :-)
Please configure your email client to add “Reply-to: dev@ofbiz.apache.org”
in the header of the messages you are sending to that list. That will
allow other email clients to automatically respect your personnal
preferences.
Thanks.
--
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Aditya,
1st please when you answer to dev ML don't add my email to this answer. I continuously and indefectibly follows this ML (as we are required as
committer). I have an email filter to redirect all dev ML emails to a dev ML folder in my email clients (Thunderbird). Actually I have 263 such
filters (OK I filter a lot :D). It's not much about you but I have seen a such pattern appearing these last times. So please guys, we don't need a copy ;)
OK I have not this problem because I tweaked Thunderbird to have only 2 buttons:
* "Reply to list" (it exists OOTB and works only for MLs) and
* "Reply to All" OOTB also I then remove the ones I don't want to send to.
This said I don't use Gmail (seen in your screenshots) and I'm not confident in any Google tools at all, I only use them when I'm forced to, paid work
generally. So I understand now this burst of copies I speak about above (striked out, but not in plain text). And I guess I had to make the changes I
speak above when this started to happen. I have no clues yet. I'll 1st look to see if we can resolved that by ourselves, I guess we will need Infra help.
I'll keep you informed
Jacques
Le 13/06/2019 à 11:41, Aditya Sharma a écrit :
> Hi Jacques,
>
> We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
> when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will be
> automatically in the *To* field.
>
> When you click on the reply button for notifications or commits emails it
> automatically adds dev@ofbiz.apache.org as *To *field but in case of dev or
> user list, the sender's email address is added. If I am replying to an
> email sent by you, only your email will be added to *To* field. Thus more
> chances of skipping the mailing list.
> You can see reply-to email address using the show details. I have attached
> some screenshots.
>
> Screenshot from 2019-06-13 14-41-14.png
> <https://drive.google.com/a/hotwaxsystems.com/file/d/13oRTEZr3825jYMXK8mx4F_He9BhzHy4I/view?usp=drive_web>
> Screenshot from 2019-06-13 14-44-23.png
> <https://drive.google.com/a/hotwaxsystems.com/file/d/15OEB-nBQIVkb6RN4E_06da3Pdw1az5fN/view?usp=drive_web>
>
> Earlier it was working fine(It works right see email titled Re:
> [DISCUSSION] Having to use parent tickets to group tickets).
> Screenshot from 2019-06-13 15-03-37.png
> <https://drive.google.com/a/hotwaxsystems.com/file/d/1AuKUmI3f2ewTlccHUqTmh5mSvH1vx922/view?usp=drive_web>
>
> We will now have to use reply-all every time.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 2:30 PM Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Aditya,
>>
>> I don't clearly understand the problem. I can see the thread <<Removing
>> support for global "ofbiz-containers.xml">> on both
>>
>> Markmail https://s.apache.org/H751 (needs Flash)
>>
>> and
>>
>> lists.apache.org: https://s.apache.org/X5If
>>
>> I can also respond to either dev ML, Mathieu or both from the initial
>> Mathieu's message (only Michael did so far)
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 13/06/2019 à 07:22, Aditya Sharma a écrit :
>>> Hi team,
>>> It seems reply-to address configuration is missing for some emails from
>> dev
>>> and user mailing list (for reference see *Removing support for global
>>> "ofbiz-containers.xml"*) while I can still find it on the notifications
>>> mailing list.
>>> Anyone having any idea about it?
>>>
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>> Aditya Sharma
>>>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 13/06/2019 à 13:35, Aditya Sharma a écrit :
> Sorry for bothering you for that Jacques. Even I like my inbox clean and it
> bothers me when any filtered email finds it's way to my inbox. Anyways I
> will be more careful further.
Oh I did not mean that, actually I did not get your mail at 1st reading and then striked the 1st section of my email out, but of course it does not
work for plain text.
> But yes we cannot expect everyone using the mailing list making sure to use
> the right way (manually removing the personal email ids).
>
> Thanks Deepak for sharing the ticket :)
Yes that's it. Who will handle it?
Jacques
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Aditya Sharma
>
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 5:00 PM Deepak Dixit <de...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Aditya,
>>>
>>> Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org> writes:
>>>
>>>> We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which
>> means
>>>> when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will
>>> be
>>>> automatically in the *To* field.
>>> I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
>>> appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
>>> that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
>>> sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
>>>
>>> Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
>>> accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
>>>
>> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to have
>> mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal preference.
>> We can ask infra for the same.
>>
>>
>> Thanks & Regards
>> --
>> Deepak Dixit
>> ofbiz.apache.org
>>
>>
>>>> When you click on the reply button for notifications or commits emails
>> it
>>>> automatically adds dev@ofbiz.apache.org as *To *field but in case of
>>> dev or
>>>> user list, the sender's email address is added.
>>> If things are properly configured then the ‘reply-to’ is set by
>>> ‘svnmailer’ (the program sending commit emails) not the mailing list
>>> administrator.
>>>
>>>> If I am replying to an email sent by you, only your email will be
>>>> added to *To* field. Thus more chances of skipping the mailing list.
>>> [...]
>>>> We will now have to use reply-all every time.
>>> Yes, this is how it is supposed to work, you should use "Reply all" when
>>> communicating with a group of people.
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mathieu Lirzin
>>> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>>>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org>.
Sorry for bothering you for that Jacques. Even I like my inbox clean and it
bothers me when any filtered email finds it's way to my inbox. Anyways I
will be more careful further.
But yes we cannot expect everyone using the mailing list making sure to use
the right way (manually removing the personal email ids).
Thanks Deepak for sharing the ticket :)
Thanks and Regards,
Aditya Sharma
On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 5:00 PM Deepak Dixit <de...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Aditya,
> >
> > Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org> writes:
> >
> > > We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which
> means
> > > when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will
> > be
> > > automatically in the *To* field.
> >
> > I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
> > appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
> > that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
> > sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
> >
> > Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
> > accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
> >
>
> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to have
> mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal preference.
> We can ask infra for the same.
>
>
> Thanks & Regards
> --
> Deepak Dixit
> ofbiz.apache.org
>
>
> >
> > > When you click on the reply button for notifications or commits emails
> it
> > > automatically adds dev@ofbiz.apache.org as *To *field but in case of
> > dev or
> > > user list, the sender's email address is added.
> >
> > If things are properly configured then the ‘reply-to’ is set by
> > ‘svnmailer’ (the program sending commit emails) not the mailing list
> > administrator.
> >
> > > If I am replying to an email sent by you, only your email will be
> > > added to *To* field. Thus more chances of skipping the mailing list.
> > [...]
> > > We will now have to use reply-all every time.
> >
> > Yes, this is how it is supposed to work, you should use "Reply all" when
> > communicating with a group of people.
> >
> > [1] http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
> >
> > --
> > Mathieu Lirzin
> > GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
> >
>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
+1
Jacques
Le 13/06/2019 à 13:30, Deepak Dixit a écrit :
> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to have
> mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal preference.
> We can ask infra for the same.
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 13/06/2019 à 14:27, Aditya Sharma a écrit :
>>> Yes that's it. Who will handle it?
> I will raise a Jira at infra if it's fine.
Please wait Aditya, I think Mathieu has a point here and we need to clarify
See my last previous message in response to him.
Thanks
Jacques
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org>.
>>It was working for a very long time and I suddenly these burst of
duplicates, as Aditya found, don't you?
Exactly
>> Yes that's it. Who will handle it?
I will raise a Jira at infra if it's fine.
On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 5:55 PM Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> Matthieu,
>
> Le 13/06/2019 à 14:08, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
> > Hello Deepak,
> >
> > Deepak Dixit <de...@apache.org> writes:
> >
> >> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <
> mathieu.lirzin@nereide.fr> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello Aditya,
> >>
> >> Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org> writes:
> >>
> >> > We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which
> means
> >> > when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address
> will be
> >> > automatically in the *To* field.
> >>
> >> I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
> >> appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list
> but
> >> that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
> >> sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
> >>
> >> Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
> >> accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
> >>
> >> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to
> >> have mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal
> >> preference. We can ask infra for the same.
> > I will answer to you by using a citation from
> > <http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>
> >
> > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> > Some administrators justify Reply-To munging by saying, "All responses
> > should go directly to the list anyway." This is arrogant. You should
> > allow me to decide exactly how I wish to respond to a message. If I feel
> > a public response is justified, I'll hit the "g" key and tell Elm to do
> > a group-reply. If I believe a private response is more appropriate, I'll
> > use "r" to send one. Please allow me the freedom to decide how to handle
> > a message.
> > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
> >
> > Please read the arguments provided by this short article. I hope it will
> > let you understand the drawbacks of what you are proposing.
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Then we should ask what Infra was doing before and discuss about it.
> I hope that we will find a consensus and in the process discover why this
> changed recently. I like the way it worked so far
>
> Jacques
>
>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 13/06/2019 à 14:37, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
> OK we need to clarify this with Infra, your link should help.
> We should discuss it before exposing our conclusions to Infra
>
> My 2cts
>
> Jacques
Answering myself: maybe we can ask infra to add reply-to as in INFRA-18478 while we discuss a better solution.
Doing that, we should let them know that we are not totally satisfied with the reply-to solution and are discussing about it. Maybe they will suggest
something!
At least in the meantime we will not get all those duplicates :/
Of course for that we must agree it's a temporary solution... At least as long as we can't agree on better....
Jacques
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 13/06/2019 à 14:23, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
> Matthieu,
>
> Le 13/06/2019 à 14:08, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
>> Hello Deepak,
>>
>> Deepak Dixit <de...@apache.org> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Aditya,
>>>
>>> Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org> writes:
>>>
>>> > We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
>>> > when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will be
>>> > automatically in the *To* field.
>>>
>>> I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
>>> appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
>>> that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
>>> sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
>>>
>>> Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
>>> accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
>>>
>>> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to
>>> have mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal
>>> preference. We can ask infra for the same.
>> I will answer to you by using a citation from
>> <http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>
>>
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>> Some administrators justify Reply-To munging by saying, "All responses
>> should go directly to the list anyway." This is arrogant. You should
>> allow me to decide exactly how I wish to respond to a message. If I feel
>> a public response is justified, I'll hit the "g" key and tell Elm to do
>> a group-reply. If I believe a private response is more appropriate, I'll
>> use "r" to send one. Please allow me the freedom to decide how to handle
>> a message.
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>>
>> Please read the arguments provided by this short article. I hope it will
>> let you understand the drawbacks of what you are proposing.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Then we should ask what Infra was doing before and discuss about it.
> I hope that we will find a consensus and in the process discover why this changed recently. I like the way it worked so far
>
> Jacques
>
>
Ah, I just tried something and I think I got your point.
You don't want to have to manually put the email address/es you want to respond to by hand.
And when I try to answer to myself to the message I answer here, I can only answer to the ML.
On the other hand, some months ago (in 2018 IIRW) I dropped the Reply to button.
It was because the behaviour then changed.
And it was easier then for me to have only a "Reply to list" and "Reply all" buttons.
Since then I use that and it's OK with me. I just have to remove now and then few email address I don't want to send when using the "Reply all" button.
And using "Reply all" for your last message I answer not only to you, but also to Deepak, Aditya and the ML.
So I clearly miss a "Reply to" button in this case (If I want to reply only to you).
OK we need to clarify this with Infra, your link should help.
We should discuss it before exposing our conclusions to Infra
My 2cts
Jacques
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Matthieu,
Le 13/06/2019 à 14:08, Mathieu Lirzin a écrit :
> Hello Deepak,
>
> Deepak Dixit <de...@apache.org> writes:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Aditya,
>>
>> Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org> writes:
>>
>> > We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
>> > when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will be
>> > automatically in the *To* field.
>>
>> I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
>> appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
>> that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
>> sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
>>
>> Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
>> accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
>>
>> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to
>> have mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal
>> preference. We can ask infra for the same.
> I will answer to you by using a citation from
> <http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> Some administrators justify Reply-To munging by saying, "All responses
> should go directly to the list anyway." This is arrogant. You should
> allow me to decide exactly how I wish to respond to a message. If I feel
> a public response is justified, I'll hit the "g" key and tell Elm to do
> a group-reply. If I believe a private response is more appropriate, I'll
> use "r" to send one. Please allow me the freedom to decide how to handle
> a message.
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> Please read the arguments provided by this short article. I hope it will
> let you understand the drawbacks of what you are proposing.
>
> Thanks.
Then we should ask what Infra was doing before and discuss about it.
I hope that we will find a consensus and in the process discover why this changed recently. I like the way it worked so far
Jacques
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>.
Hello Deepak,
Deepak Dixit <de...@apache.org> writes:
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr> wrote:
>
> Hello Aditya,
>
> Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org> writes:
>
> > We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
> > when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will be
> > automatically in the *To* field.
>
> I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
> appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
> that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
> sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
>
> Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
> accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
>
> I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to
> have mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal
> preference. We can ask infra for the same.
I will answer to you by using a citation from
<http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Some administrators justify Reply-To munging by saying, "All responses
should go directly to the list anyway." This is arrogant. You should
allow me to decide exactly how I wish to respond to a message. If I feel
a public response is justified, I'll hit the "g" key and tell Elm to do
a group-reply. If I believe a private response is more appropriate, I'll
use "r" to send one. Please allow me the freedom to decide how to handle
a message.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
Please read the arguments provided by this short article. I hope it will
let you understand the drawbacks of what you are proposing.
Thanks.
--
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Deepak Dixit <de...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:14 PM Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>
wrote:
> Hello Aditya,
>
> Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org> writes:
>
> > We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
> > when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will
> be
> > automatically in the *To* field.
>
> I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
> appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
> that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
> sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
>
> Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
> accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
>
I think if we are doing communication on the mailing list, its good to have
mailing list address in reply-to irrespective personal preference.
We can ask infra for the same.
Thanks & Regards
--
Deepak Dixit
ofbiz.apache.org
>
> > When you click on the reply button for notifications or commits emails it
> > automatically adds dev@ofbiz.apache.org as *To *field but in case of
> dev or
> > user list, the sender's email address is added.
>
> If things are properly configured then the ‘reply-to’ is set by
> ‘svnmailer’ (the program sending commit emails) not the mailing list
> administrator.
>
> > If I am replying to an email sent by you, only your email will be
> > added to *To* field. Thus more chances of skipping the mailing list.
> [...]
> > We will now have to use reply-all every time.
>
> Yes, this is how it is supposed to work, you should use "Reply all" when
> communicating with a group of people.
>
> [1] http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
>
> --
> Mathieu Lirzin
> GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Mathieu Lirzin <ma...@nereide.fr>.
Hello Aditya,
Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org> writes:
> We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
> when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will be
> automatically in the *To* field.
I know some people here prefer their personal email address to not
appear in the ‘To’ header when replying to them and the mailing-list but
that's a personnal preference that can/should be defined only by the
sender of a message not the administrators of a mailing-list. [1]
Please configure your email client to add the ‘Reply-to’ header
accordingly, but let others have different preferences. :-)
> When you click on the reply button for notifications or commits emails it
> automatically adds dev@ofbiz.apache.org as *To *field but in case of dev or
> user list, the sender's email address is added.
If things are properly configured then the ‘reply-to’ is set by
‘svnmailer’ (the program sending commit emails) not the mailing list
administrator.
> If I am replying to an email sent by you, only your email will be
> added to *To* field. Thus more chances of skipping the mailing list.
[...]
> We will now have to use reply-all every time.
Yes, this is how it is supposed to work, you should use "Reply all" when
communicating with a group of people.
[1] http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
--
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Aditya Sharma <ad...@apache.org>.
Hi Jacques,
We can configure reply-to email address for the mailing list which means
when the user clicks the reply button, the specified email address will be
automatically in the *To* field.
When you click on the reply button for notifications or commits emails it
automatically adds dev@ofbiz.apache.org as *To *field but in case of dev or
user list, the sender's email address is added. If I am replying to an
email sent by you, only your email will be added to *To* field. Thus more
chances of skipping the mailing list.
You can see reply-to email address using the show details. I have attached
some screenshots.
Screenshot from 2019-06-13 14-41-14.png
<https://drive.google.com/a/hotwaxsystems.com/file/d/13oRTEZr3825jYMXK8mx4F_He9BhzHy4I/view?usp=drive_web>
Screenshot from 2019-06-13 14-44-23.png
<https://drive.google.com/a/hotwaxsystems.com/file/d/15OEB-nBQIVkb6RN4E_06da3Pdw1az5fN/view?usp=drive_web>
Earlier it was working fine(It works right see email titled Re:
[DISCUSSION] Having to use parent tickets to group tickets).
Screenshot from 2019-06-13 15-03-37.png
<https://drive.google.com/a/hotwaxsystems.com/file/d/1AuKUmI3f2ewTlccHUqTmh5mSvH1vx922/view?usp=drive_web>
We will now have to use reply-all every time.
On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 2:30 PM Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> Hi Aditya,
>
> I don't clearly understand the problem. I can see the thread <<Removing
> support for global "ofbiz-containers.xml">> on both
>
> Markmail https://s.apache.org/H751 (needs Flash)
>
> and
>
> lists.apache.org: https://s.apache.org/X5If
>
> I can also respond to either dev ML, Mathieu or both from the initial
> Mathieu's message (only Michael did so far)
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 13/06/2019 à 07:22, Aditya Sharma a écrit :
> > Hi team,
> > It seems reply-to address configuration is missing for some emails from
> dev
> > and user mailing list (for reference see *Removing support for global
> > "ofbiz-containers.xml"*) while I can still find it on the notifications
> > mailing list.
> > Anyone having any idea about it?
> >
> > Thanks and regards,
> > Aditya Sharma
> >
>
Re: Reply-to address missing for dev and user mailing list
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Hi Aditya,
I don't clearly understand the problem. I can see the thread <<Removing support for global "ofbiz-containers.xml">> on both
Markmail https://s.apache.org/H751 (needs Flash)
and
lists.apache.org: https://s.apache.org/X5If
I can also respond to either dev ML, Mathieu or both from the initial Mathieu's message (only Michael did so far)
Jacques
Le 13/06/2019 à 07:22, Aditya Sharma a écrit :
> Hi team,
> It seems reply-to address configuration is missing for some emails from dev
> and user mailing list (for reference see *Removing support for global
> "ofbiz-containers.xml"*) while I can still find it on the notifications
> mailing list.
> Anyone having any idea about it?
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Aditya Sharma
>