Am I using the right CMS?

[Rovi <ro...@yahoo.com>]

Hi,
I intend to create a handful of personal web sites and I thought I'd use a CMS 
for the purpose instead of creating the sites using Adobe GoLive, or 
Dreamweaver, etc. My reasons were that I wanted to focus on content, and not 
the technology or programming.
I chose Lenya because its opensource and uses Java and XML (no database), and 
because its an Apache project.
I would like to keep my life simple and be able to do simple things like add 
Javascript, pictures, documents, simple forms, etc. to my pages. But it seems 
Lenya out of the box is too inflexible and is mired in a very strict DTD. I 
would like your advice as to whether I should continue with using Lenya or 
not. I totally believe that user acceptance is a very important piece to make 
product popular and successful. I may just be a wrong kind of user here, but 
would like to know the opinion of people who are behind Lenya. Thanks!


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Re: Am I using the right CMS?

[Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>]

Rovi wrote:

>Hi,
>I intend to create a handful of personal web sites and I thought I'd use a CMS 
>for the purpose instead of creating the sites using Adobe GoLive, or 
>Dreamweaver, etc. My reasons were that I wanted to focus on content, and not 
>the technology or programming.
>I chose Lenya because its opensource and uses Java and XML (no database), and 
>because its an Apache project.
>I would like to keep my life simple and be able to do simple things like add 
>Javascript, pictures, documents, simple forms, etc. to my pages.
>

Javascript is a bit tricky because of well-formedness, resp. that most 
existing
Javascript is not well-formed. One trick is to reference it from the head.

Pictures, Documents and assets in general can be easily be attached to 
pages, but the sample
publications might not show that as nicely as it could be. You might 
want to take a look at the
University of Zurich publication:

Demo: https://cms.unizh.ch/lenya/sandbox/authoring/index.html

Source Code: http://svn.wyona.org/repos/public/lenya/unicms/trunk/ 
(anonymous:anonymous)

Forms are also supported, but also no nice examples within the sample 
publications, but:

http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/lenya/sandbox/cforms-default-pub/

... so I think a lot of stuff your are asking for is there, but kind of 
hidden.

> But it seems 
>Lenya out of the box is too inflexible and is mired in a very strict DTD.
>

DTDs are not required, but only well-formedness, but yes, they are being 
used sometimes
for various reasons

> I 
>would like your advice as to whether I should continue with using Lenya or 
>not. I totally believe that user acceptance is a very important piece to make 
>product popular and successful.
>

I very much agree (also see Jonathan's email) and I think Lenya could do 
much better, but
there are all kind of reasons why that's not the case.

HTH

Michi

> I may just be a wrong kind of user here, but 
>would like to know the opinion of people who are behind Lenya. Thanks!
>
>
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>To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@lenya.apache.org
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>
>  
>


-- 
Michael Wechner
Wyona      -   Open Source Content Management   -    Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com                      http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com                        michi@apache.org


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Re: Am I using the right CMS?

[Jonathan Linczak <gr...@mac.com>]

> Hi,
> I intend to create a handful of personal web sites and I thought I'd  
> use a CMS
> for the purpose instead of creating the sites using Adobe GoLive, or
> Dreamweaver, etc. My reasons were that I wanted to focus on content,  
> and not
> the technology or programming.
> I chose Lenya because its opensource and uses Java and XML (no  
> database), and
> because its an Apache project.
> I would like to keep my life simple and be able to do simple things  
> like add
> Javascript, pictures, documents, simple forms, etc. to my pages. But  
> it seems
> Lenya out of the box is too inflexible and is mired in a very strict  
> DTD. I
> would like your advice as to whether I should continue with using  
> Lenya or
> not. I totally believe that user acceptance is a very important piece  
> to make
> product popular and successful. I may just be a wrong kind of user  
> here, but
> would like to know the opinion of people who are behind Lenya. Thanks!

Implementing and using Lenya now for nearly two years, I think I can  
safely say that while Lenya isn't necessarily the easiest to pick up  
and understand from the administrative prospective, it does have one of  
the nicest approaches to content management I've seen from the user  
prospective.  I think a lot of people who have never used a CMS before  
and start using Lenya for the first time are a bit frustrated by the  
lack of polish on the application - if that's a safe thing to say on  
this mailing list.

But in all honesty, there isn't a single CMS out there that is  
incredibly simple to use and yet is fully featured.  It's the nature of  
the beast really.  CMS's are usually built by people well-versed in  
database design, Java development (or pick your own language), or  
website development.  Very rarely do you see so much emphasis being  
placed on the user's prospective, particularly from those users who  
don't have a clue about website development.

And this is what makes Lenya so interesting.  I haven't tested every  
CMS out there, but Lenya is certainly the first I came across that made  
it really easy for the user to understand how to get to a page they  
want to edit and start editing it.  Too many times I've installed a  
CMS, logged in for the first time, and stared at the screen thinking,  
"Now what?"

Yes, there are details that still make some parts of editing difficult  
(like your PDF question earlier) and there are bug reports and plans  
out there to attend to those issues, but as an open-source package, it  
doesn't operate like a paid piece of software in that the developers  
rely on the happiness of their customers to maintain their livelihood,  
so naturally, these issues will take some time to resolve.  But the  
beauty of open-source is if you spot an issue, you have the power to  
correct it and (hopefully) give it back to the community.

Some of the issues you described: inflexibility and a very strict DTD,  
are, I think, merely products of not understanding the software and a  
lack of good documentation for those just wanting to know where to  
start with Lenya.  I'm not saying it's your's or anyone's fault for not  
understanding the software - no doubt that an introductory document (a  
book, perhaps?) might be all that is needed to make Lenya seem more  
appealing to the less-technical.

In the mean time, here's some additional help: Lenya is installed by  
default with the XHTML strict doctype, but this is easily customizable.  
  This mailing list entry:  
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/lenya-user/200412.mbox/ 
%3C41C5F1CA.5000800@apache.org%3E should help you in getting to change  
the default doctype.  And once you have that, and you have other  
specific (or general!) concerns, don't hesitate to let us know.  We're  
here to help as best we can.

I wholeheartedly agree that user acceptance is the key to making a  
software application (or any product for that matter) successful.   
Based on my experience, in general, users were happy with Lenya because  
they were able to update simple pieces of text when needed on their  
websites.  More advanced users began to grumble because they didn't  
have more control.  You'll have to base your decision on a CMS based on  
your user's needs.  If your users are relatively advanced, perhaps  
Lenya isn't right for you.  If your users need to update simple text  
items and add new pages here and there, then Lenya might be a good  
solution.  If you have a lot of administrators and none of them know  
Java or XML, then perhaps Lenya isn't right for you.  There are lots of  
variables mixed into the decision.

The point is this: once you know who your main users are and what your  
goals are, come back to us and ask us if Lenya can meet your specific  
goals.  We'll be honest.  If it doesn't, we'll say so.  :)  But if it  
does, we'll be here to help in your implementation or further research  
too.

Sorry for the long response - just wanted to be thorough.  Hope this  
helps somewhat.

Jon


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