Re: How to replace normal html-from through html:form in Struts? Example

[Laurie Harper <la...@holoweb.net>]

I think your 'semantics' arugment may be confusing two orthogonal sets 
of semantics, but I do see where you're coming from.

We're well off-topic so I'm keeping this brief, but feel free to follow 
up off-list if you want to discuss further.

L.

Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
> 
> On Wed, September 14, 2005 6:35 am, Laurie Harper said:
> 
>>I never said you *shouldn't* use 'class' to style elements :-)
> 
> 
> True enough :)
> 
> 
>>That's the right answer when you want to apply the same set of styles to
>>multiple elements (although even without the 'class' attribute here,
>>you'd still only need to define one rule in the stylesheet... it would
>>just jave 3 selectors).
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's true.  Even still though, 3 selectors feels like a little
> more complexity than there needs to be.  I suppose it's like preferring
> a++; over a=a+1; ... neither is complicated by any stretch, but the
> postfix just seems slightly cleaner.  I know some people feel the exact
> opposite though, so I'm coming down to personal preference, not the basis
> of a strong argument :)
> 
> 
>>>Specifically, the first sentence of the last paragraph:
>>>
>>>"The use of ID is appropriate when a style only needs to be applied once
>>>in any document."
>>>
>>>That's another way of saying what I was trying to say above :)
>>
>>Note that there's no corollary there that this is in any way
>>inappropriate, though. If I only *want* to apply styles to one element
>>in the document, this is the way to do it.
> 
> 
> Yes, I definitely agree there is nothing saying that is inappropriate.  I
> would still make the argument however that it semantically doesn't feel
> right... it's almost as if instead of saying:
> 
> class B extends A { }
> 
> ...I instead did something like:
> 
> B b(extendsA) = new B();
> 
> That's of course not real syntax, but pretend it is :)  What I'm trying to
> say is that it's almost like I'm tying what class B extends into the
> identification of an instance of B.  That's what using the ID feels like
> to me.
> 
> 
>>There's a difference between class and style, though. Class and ID are
>>two different 'hooks' by which you can associate style with (one or
>>more) elements. CSS provides all sorts of selectors besides class
>>selectors, after all.
> 
> 
> True enough :)
> 
> 
>>'id' is guaranteed unique in any valid document, whereas 'class' is
>>(obviously) not. So, if I know that the thing I want to style should
>>occur exactly once (for example, a title at the start of an article) I
>>can assign it an ID. By attaching styles via the ID, I can be sure those
>>styles will never be applied anywhere else in the document, because the
>>ID must be unique. If it's not, I'll get an error when I validate the
>>document.
>>
>>On the other hand, if I use 'class' instead of 'id', that class could be
>>re-used elsewhere in the document. That won't be caught by validation,
>>or anything else but visual inspection of the result.
> 
> 
> Ah, gotcha.
> 
> 
>>OK, so it probably not something you care about very often ;-) My point
>>was just that, while IDs must be unique and that uniqueness is checked
>>during validation, no such restriction applies to 'class'.
> 
> 
> Makes sense.  Yeah, I'm not sure how often it would come up, but if
> someone knew it would be a concern, and I could see where it might be if
> you have a lot of page designers working in parallel, you might be able to
> convince me on this basis.
> 
> 
>>Heh :) Have you had any experiences where using CSS ID selectors was
>>actually bad, or caused problems?
> 
> 
> No, I can't say that I have.
> 
> Ok, I will amend my original comment after this discussion...
> 
> It's considered a bad practice, but only by me :)  And not for any real,
> concrete technical reasons, just because it doesn't quite *feel* right :)
> 
> 
>>L.
> 
> 
> (F)rank :)


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Re: How to replace normal html-from through html:form in Struts? Example

["Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>]

On Wed, September 14, 2005 11:15 am, Laurie Harper said:
> I think your 'semantics' arugment may be confusing two orthogonal sets
> of semantics, but I do see where you're coming from.

Could be.  Wouldn't be the first time :)

> We're well off-topic so I'm keeping this brief, but feel free to follow
> up off-list if you want to discuss further.

Yeah, definitely OT now... probably no need to continue... it's not in the
end a big deal either way I suppose... both our approaches work and
neither is so much more right than the other (if at all) that we're going
to convince everyone either way, so I'm content to call it a draw and
continue on our merry ways :)

> L.

Frank

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