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Posted to dev@openaz.apache.org by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org> on 2016/07/09 15:42:26 UTC
No report?
OpenAz,
We previously had a vote to retire this podling, and this would have been
your third month reporting monthly since that. Your report is missing.
Are we now in a situation where the retirement vote should restart? I saw
that there was little mailing list activity other than the board report.
John
Re: No report?
Posted by Sam Barrett <sa...@gmail.com>.
Hadrian,
Yeah, really I'm just a troll. I prefer to live life mocking others for
success/progress than actually writing code myself or being productive.
While I could suggest that some "members" of this team ingest feces and
expire, I'm really not intellectual enough to command a true breadth of the
English language; I'll just continue to be lazy and use blue language.
Hey, also, what have you done since David Ash tried to resurrect this? I
see a note regarding process on weed day and a positive vote for David and
nothing else. I've been more active in communications than you, and I'm a
complete piece of shit. Maybe you and others really just wanted this to die
and were happy to subvert, stall and otherwise choke the life out of the
momentum?
If you dildos can run off one of the most talented and passionate devs I've
ever met, you REALLY should be proud of your accomplishment.
Fuck off.
Oops, I mean, enjoy this splendid day, good sir.
For the life of me, I cannot understand you point Sam. Besides throwing
some swear words that are probably intended to solicit some emotional
response it's not clear at all what you're referring to.
Is the 'colossal bit of fuckery' the way ASF works or the way the openaz
project evolved? If you're insulting your way through life I really pity
you.
That aside, David, I think you're assessment is close enough to reality.
The ASF gives ample time to all projects and podlings in particular to grow
an active, vibrant and diverse community. It's ASF's belief that strong
communities build great projects. For now the only thing that was expected
was a report. The community, unfortunately, was not able to produce that.
The question is what it the best and more productive way forward. John
suggested retirement, again. I personally would +1 that as I don't see
sufficient momentum in the project.
Now one suggestion for you. You mention the 3 categories of projects
suitable for the ASF and I believe you imply that OpenAz doesn't fit in any
of them. I believed OpenAz fits in the 3rd category *before* the incubation
proposal. I don't know if that was true or not, but if it was the
tightly-knit team disintegrated fast. Now you mention that your preference
is on the Kanban side of agile. All good. In my experience that cannot
continue forever. The project either gets traction, adoption and the
community grows (and that takes a lot of non coding effort, like
documentation, presentations online and at various events, hand-holding
early adopters; all not the most rewarding activities for a coder) or the
community doesn't grow and coders get frustrated, feel like nobody
understands their efforts and move to other interesting things. The ASF
does not have a magic wand that makes any project successful, but we're
happy to share our experience knowledge and some time to help out. Just
something to think about.
If you feel the ASF is not for you, everybody respects that. I would
mention though that if you really care about the openaz project and hope it
will survive (and see enough value to spend your time on it) nobody
prevents from forking it and take it in whatever direction you want.
We also wish you the best!
Hadrian
On 07/10/2016 01:48 PM, Sam Barrett wrote:
> What a colossal bit of fuckery.
>
> I'm SO thankful I didn't spend much time on this.
>
> Ass-clownery 1, well-intentioned passionate developers 0.
>
> Well played, dinosaur; well played.
> On Jul 10, 2016 11:15 AM, "David Ash" <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think the retirement talks should resume.
>>
>> What little steam I had three months ago for keeping it alive is gone. We
>> lost momentum more quickly than we gained it. I had quickly lost the two
>> other volunteers I brought on (within days). And I have not managed to
>> get
>> any additional individuals interested. Without significantly more people,
>> it's not viable. I also don't think I ever got the commit status I had
>> applied for (or at least I never got a reply to my question regarding that
>> status). But I also never performed any significant work that went
>> uncommitted, so I'd like to avoid that being an excuse for my own
>> shortcomings. I feel like losing momentum and having an exceptionally
>> busy
>> schedule (even for me) was more to blame there -- I spent two weeks in
>> Japan, and have been working 16-hour days finishing a project that I will
>> be demonstrating at an MIT symposium in the near future. Those are great
>> things for me personally, but have not been good for my involvement in
>> OpenAz.
>>
>> Further, it has become apparent that Apache is not the right kind of
>> organization for me or this project. It seems to be a process-heavy,
>> patience-driven, slow-and-steady wins the race kind of approach geared
>> toward maximizing small amounts of work by large numbers of people across
>> the globe. Although I recognize the value of that approach, I feel like
>> it
>> is geared more toward developing software that is either 1) In high demand
>> (and will thus have numerous volunteers); 2) Already quite mature (ready
>> for its first release on the first day of incubation); or 3) Has a small,
>> tightly-knit team largely working outside the Apache process but following
>> just enough of the rules to stay alive until the popularity catches on or
>> it has become mature enough for natural survival.
>>
>> My preferred approach is on the Kanban side of Agile: process-light,
>> informal, momentum-driven development with minimal oversight, release
>> early
>> and often, with tight feedback loops everywhere, and real-time
>> communications between a very small number of highly-dedicated developers.
>> That's the startup methodology, and I feel like it is better geared toward
>> bringing new things to market. I can also understand and respect why it
>> might not be the best general methodology for Apache, and with their track
>> record I could hardly say they're "doing it wrong." But I don't think
>> it's
>> for me.
>>
>> I still hope the project can somehow survive, but I won't be part of it.
>> Good luck to everyone in their projects, present and future. I wish you
>> all success in your ventures.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> David Ash
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 9:42 AM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> OpenAz,
>>>
>>> We previously had a vote to retire this podling, and this would have been
>>> your third month reporting monthly since that. Your report is missing.
>>>
>>> Are we now in a situation where the retirement vote should restart? I
>>>
>> saw
>>
>>> that there was little mailing list activity other than the board report.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: No report?
Posted by Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>.
For the life of me, I cannot understand you point Sam. Besides throwing
some swear words that are probably intended to solicit some emotional
response it's not clear at all what you're referring to.
Is the 'colossal bit of fuckery' the way ASF works or the way the openaz
project evolved? If you're insulting your way through life I really pity
you.
That aside, David, I think you're assessment is close enough to reality.
The ASF gives ample time to all projects and podlings in particular to
grow an active, vibrant and diverse community. It's ASF's belief that
strong communities build great projects. For now the only thing that was
expected was a report. The community, unfortunately, was not able to
produce that. The question is what it the best and more productive way
forward. John suggested retirement, again. I personally would +1 that as
I don't see sufficient momentum in the project.
Now one suggestion for you. You mention the 3 categories of projects
suitable for the ASF and I believe you imply that OpenAz doesn't fit in
any of them. I believed OpenAz fits in the 3rd category *before* the
incubation proposal. I don't know if that was true or not, but if it was
the tightly-knit team disintegrated fast. Now you mention that your
preference is on the Kanban side of agile. All good. In my experience
that cannot continue forever. The project either gets traction, adoption
and the community grows (and that takes a lot of non coding effort, like
documentation, presentations online and at various events, hand-holding
early adopters; all not the most rewarding activities for a coder) or
the community doesn't grow and coders get frustrated, feel like nobody
understands their efforts and move to other interesting things. The ASF
does not have a magic wand that makes any project successful, but we're
happy to share our experience knowledge and some time to help out. Just
something to think about.
If you feel the ASF is not for you, everybody respects that. I would
mention though that if you really care about the openaz project and hope
it will survive (and see enough value to spend your time on it) nobody
prevents from forking it and take it in whatever direction you want.
We also wish you the best!
Hadrian
On 07/10/2016 01:48 PM, Sam Barrett wrote:
> What a colossal bit of fuckery.
>
> I'm SO thankful I didn't spend much time on this.
>
> Ass-clownery 1, well-intentioned passionate developers 0.
>
> Well played, dinosaur; well played.
> On Jul 10, 2016 11:15 AM, "David Ash" <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think the retirement talks should resume.
>>
>> What little steam I had three months ago for keeping it alive is gone. We
>> lost momentum more quickly than we gained it. I had quickly lost the two
>> other volunteers I brought on (within days). And I have not managed to get
>> any additional individuals interested. Without significantly more people,
>> it's not viable. I also don't think I ever got the commit status I had
>> applied for (or at least I never got a reply to my question regarding that
>> status). But I also never performed any significant work that went
>> uncommitted, so I'd like to avoid that being an excuse for my own
>> shortcomings. I feel like losing momentum and having an exceptionally busy
>> schedule (even for me) was more to blame there -- I spent two weeks in
>> Japan, and have been working 16-hour days finishing a project that I will
>> be demonstrating at an MIT symposium in the near future. Those are great
>> things for me personally, but have not been good for my involvement in
>> OpenAz.
>>
>> Further, it has become apparent that Apache is not the right kind of
>> organization for me or this project. It seems to be a process-heavy,
>> patience-driven, slow-and-steady wins the race kind of approach geared
>> toward maximizing small amounts of work by large numbers of people across
>> the globe. Although I recognize the value of that approach, I feel like it
>> is geared more toward developing software that is either 1) In high demand
>> (and will thus have numerous volunteers); 2) Already quite mature (ready
>> for its first release on the first day of incubation); or 3) Has a small,
>> tightly-knit team largely working outside the Apache process but following
>> just enough of the rules to stay alive until the popularity catches on or
>> it has become mature enough for natural survival.
>>
>> My preferred approach is on the Kanban side of Agile: process-light,
>> informal, momentum-driven development with minimal oversight, release early
>> and often, with tight feedback loops everywhere, and real-time
>> communications between a very small number of highly-dedicated developers.
>> That's the startup methodology, and I feel like it is better geared toward
>> bringing new things to market. I can also understand and respect why it
>> might not be the best general methodology for Apache, and with their track
>> record I could hardly say they're "doing it wrong." But I don't think it's
>> for me.
>>
>> I still hope the project can somehow survive, but I won't be part of it.
>> Good luck to everyone in their projects, present and future. I wish you
>> all success in your ventures.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> David Ash
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 9:42 AM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> OpenAz,
>>>
>>> We previously had a vote to retire this podling, and this would have been
>>> your third month reporting monthly since that. Your report is missing.
>>>
>>> Are we now in a situation where the retirement vote should restart? I
>> saw
>>> that there was little mailing list activity other than the board report.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>
>
Re: No report?
Posted by Sam Barrett <sa...@gmail.com>.
What a colossal bit of fuckery.
I'm SO thankful I didn't spend much time on this.
Ass-clownery 1, well-intentioned passionate developers 0.
Well played, dinosaur; well played.
On Jul 10, 2016 11:15 AM, "David Ash" <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the retirement talks should resume.
>
> What little steam I had three months ago for keeping it alive is gone. We
> lost momentum more quickly than we gained it. I had quickly lost the two
> other volunteers I brought on (within days). And I have not managed to get
> any additional individuals interested. Without significantly more people,
> it's not viable. I also don't think I ever got the commit status I had
> applied for (or at least I never got a reply to my question regarding that
> status). But I also never performed any significant work that went
> uncommitted, so I'd like to avoid that being an excuse for my own
> shortcomings. I feel like losing momentum and having an exceptionally busy
> schedule (even for me) was more to blame there -- I spent two weeks in
> Japan, and have been working 16-hour days finishing a project that I will
> be demonstrating at an MIT symposium in the near future. Those are great
> things for me personally, but have not been good for my involvement in
> OpenAz.
>
> Further, it has become apparent that Apache is not the right kind of
> organization for me or this project. It seems to be a process-heavy,
> patience-driven, slow-and-steady wins the race kind of approach geared
> toward maximizing small amounts of work by large numbers of people across
> the globe. Although I recognize the value of that approach, I feel like it
> is geared more toward developing software that is either 1) In high demand
> (and will thus have numerous volunteers); 2) Already quite mature (ready
> for its first release on the first day of incubation); or 3) Has a small,
> tightly-knit team largely working outside the Apache process but following
> just enough of the rules to stay alive until the popularity catches on or
> it has become mature enough for natural survival.
>
> My preferred approach is on the Kanban side of Agile: process-light,
> informal, momentum-driven development with minimal oversight, release early
> and often, with tight feedback loops everywhere, and real-time
> communications between a very small number of highly-dedicated developers.
> That's the startup methodology, and I feel like it is better geared toward
> bringing new things to market. I can also understand and respect why it
> might not be the best general methodology for Apache, and with their track
> record I could hardly say they're "doing it wrong." But I don't think it's
> for me.
>
> I still hope the project can somehow survive, but I won't be part of it.
> Good luck to everyone in their projects, present and future. I wish you
> all success in your ventures.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> David Ash
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 9:42 AM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > OpenAz,
> >
> > We previously had a vote to retire this podling, and this would have been
> > your third month reporting monthly since that. Your report is missing.
> >
> > Are we now in a situation where the retirement vote should restart? I
> saw
> > that there was little mailing list activity other than the board report.
> >
> > John
> >
>
Re: No report?
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
David,
This might be a good place to start:
http://www.apache.org/dev/new-committers-guide.html#set-up-subversion-or-git-access
John
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 8:37 PM David Ash <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are there instructions somewhere of how a committer may clone an official
> Apache writable repo? I found some limited information perusing Apache's
> site via Google, but I didn't find enough information to make it work.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:16 PM, David Ash <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Gotcha. So anyone that cloned our repo on github, made changes, and put
> > in a pull request, couldn't really easily get their changes merged in?
> >
> > Well, I was intentionally working out of Github. Obviously that was a
> > mistake. Maybe I'll take that code, rebase it, and commit and push to
> the
> > root repo.
> >
> > There wasn't anything significant there, just the Apache CMS directory.
> > It was kind of a process POC for me. But I can commit and push that at
> > least.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:19 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 2:10 PM David Ash <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Bump:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Emmanuel,
> >> > > If the incubator status is retired, what actually does happen beside
> >> the
> >> > > removal of the project from the incubator.apache.org web site?
> >> > > Thanks!
> >> > > Yanik Grignon
> >> > > Product Owner and Software Engineering Architect
> >> > > Salesforce
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Also, https://github.com/apache/incubator-openaz-site/pull/1
> >> >
> >> > That was committed in March. Still no merge. And the fact that I
> can't
> >> > merge it is what tells me I was never made a committer.
> >> >
> >>
> >> No one has write access in github. YOu would need to merge directly
> into
> >> the ASF repo. You do have write access, I just checked the "dash"
> >> account.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Yanik Grignon <
> >> ygrignon@salesforce.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi Emmanuel,
> >> > >
> >> > > If the incubator status is retired, what actually does happen beside
> >> the
> >> > > removal of the project from the incubator.apache.org web site?
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks!
> >> > >
> >> > > Yanik Grignon
> >> > > Product Owner and Software Engineering Architect
> >> > > Salesforce
> >> > >
> >> > > On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Emmanuel Lécharny <
> >> elecharny@gmail.com>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > If anyone likes to fork it somewhere else, it's always a
> >> possibility :
> >> > > > the code won't disappear from The ASF repository. There are plenty
> >> of
> >> > > > other possibilities.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
Re: No report?
Posted by David Ash <gr...@gmail.com>.
Are there instructions somewhere of how a committer may clone an official
Apache writable repo? I found some limited information perusing Apache's
site via Google, but I didn't find enough information to make it work.
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:16 PM, David Ash <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gotcha. So anyone that cloned our repo on github, made changes, and put
> in a pull request, couldn't really easily get their changes merged in?
>
> Well, I was intentionally working out of Github. Obviously that was a
> mistake. Maybe I'll take that code, rebase it, and commit and push to the
> root repo.
>
> There wasn't anything significant there, just the Apache CMS directory.
> It was kind of a process POC for me. But I can commit and push that at
> least.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:19 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 2:10 PM David Ash <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Bump:
>> >
>> > Hi Emmanuel,
>> > > If the incubator status is retired, what actually does happen beside
>> the
>> > > removal of the project from the incubator.apache.org web site?
>> > > Thanks!
>> > > Yanik Grignon
>> > > Product Owner and Software Engineering Architect
>> > > Salesforce
>> >
>> >
>> > Also, https://github.com/apache/incubator-openaz-site/pull/1
>> >
>> > That was committed in March. Still no merge. And the fact that I can't
>> > merge it is what tells me I was never made a committer.
>> >
>>
>> No one has write access in github. YOu would need to merge directly into
>> the ASF repo. You do have write access, I just checked the "dash"
>> account.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Yanik Grignon <
>> ygrignon@salesforce.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Emmanuel,
>> > >
>> > > If the incubator status is retired, what actually does happen beside
>> the
>> > > removal of the project from the incubator.apache.org web site?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks!
>> > >
>> > > Yanik Grignon
>> > > Product Owner and Software Engineering Architect
>> > > Salesforce
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Emmanuel Lécharny <
>> elecharny@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > If anyone likes to fork it somewhere else, it's always a
>> possibility :
>> > > > the code won't disappear from The ASF repository. There are plenty
>> of
>> > > > other possibilities.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
Re: No report?
Posted by David Ash <gr...@gmail.com>.
Gotcha. So anyone that cloned our repo on github, made changes, and put in
a pull request, couldn't really easily get their changes merged in?
Well, I was intentionally working out of Github. Obviously that was a
mistake. Maybe I'll take that code, rebase it, and commit and push to the
root repo.
There wasn't anything significant there, just the Apache CMS directory. It
was kind of a process POC for me. But I can commit and push that at least.
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:19 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 2:10 PM David Ash <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Bump:
> >
> > Hi Emmanuel,
> > > If the incubator status is retired, what actually does happen beside
> the
> > > removal of the project from the incubator.apache.org web site?
> > > Thanks!
> > > Yanik Grignon
> > > Product Owner and Software Engineering Architect
> > > Salesforce
> >
> >
> > Also, https://github.com/apache/incubator-openaz-site/pull/1
> >
> > That was committed in March. Still no merge. And the fact that I can't
> > merge it is what tells me I was never made a committer.
> >
>
> No one has write access in github. YOu would need to merge directly into
> the ASF repo. You do have write access, I just checked the "dash" account.
>
> John
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Yanik Grignon <ygrignon@salesforce.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Emmanuel,
> > >
> > > If the incubator status is retired, what actually does happen beside
> the
> > > removal of the project from the incubator.apache.org web site?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Yanik Grignon
> > > Product Owner and Software Engineering Architect
> > > Salesforce
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Emmanuel Lécharny <
> elecharny@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > If anyone likes to fork it somewhere else, it's always a possibility
> :
> > > > the code won't disappear from The ASF repository. There are plenty of
> > > > other possibilities.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: No report?
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 2:10 PM David Ash <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bump:
>
> Hi Emmanuel,
> > If the incubator status is retired, what actually does happen beside the
> > removal of the project from the incubator.apache.org web site?
> > Thanks!
> > Yanik Grignon
> > Product Owner and Software Engineering Architect
> > Salesforce
>
>
> Also, https://github.com/apache/incubator-openaz-site/pull/1
>
> That was committed in March. Still no merge. And the fact that I can't
> merge it is what tells me I was never made a committer.
>
No one has write access in github. YOu would need to merge directly into
the ASF repo. You do have write access, I just checked the "dash" account.
John
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Yanik Grignon <yg...@salesforce.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Emmanuel,
> >
> > If the incubator status is retired, what actually does happen beside the
> > removal of the project from the incubator.apache.org web site?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Yanik Grignon
> > Product Owner and Software Engineering Architect
> > Salesforce
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > If anyone likes to fork it somewhere else, it's always a possibility :
> > > the code won't disappear from The ASF repository. There are plenty of
> > > other possibilities.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: No report?
Posted by David Ash <gr...@gmail.com>.
Bump:
Hi Emmanuel,
> If the incubator status is retired, what actually does happen beside the
> removal of the project from the incubator.apache.org web site?
> Thanks!
> Yanik Grignon
> Product Owner and Software Engineering Architect
> Salesforce
Also, https://github.com/apache/incubator-openaz-site/pull/1
That was committed in March. Still no merge. And the fact that I can't
merge it is what tells me I was never made a committer.
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Yanik Grignon <yg...@salesforce.com>
wrote:
> Hi Emmanuel,
>
> If the incubator status is retired, what actually does happen beside the
> removal of the project from the incubator.apache.org web site?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Yanik Grignon
> Product Owner and Software Engineering Architect
> Salesforce
>
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > If anyone likes to fork it somewhere else, it's always a possibility :
> > the code won't disappear from The ASF repository. There are plenty of
> > other possibilities.
> >
> >
>
Re: No report?
Posted by Yanik Grignon <yg...@salesforce.com>.
Hi Emmanuel,
If the incubator status is retired, what actually does happen beside the
removal of the project from the incubator.apache.org web site?
Thanks!
Yanik Grignon
Product Owner and Software Engineering Architect
Salesforce
On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> If anyone likes to fork it somewhere else, it's always a possibility :
> the code won't disappear from The ASF repository. There are plenty of
> other possibilities.
>
>
Re: No report?
Posted by Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>.
Le 10/07/16 � 19:14, David Ash a �crit :
> I think the retirement talks should resume.
>
> What little steam I had three months ago for keeping it alive is gone. We
> lost momentum more quickly than we gained it. I had quickly lost the two
> other volunteers I brought on (within days). And I have not managed to get
> any additional individuals interested. Without significantly more people,
> it's not viable. I also don't think I ever got the commit status I had
> applied for (or at least I never got a reply to my question regarding that
> status). But I also never performed any significant work that went
> uncommitted, so I'd like to avoid that being an excuse for my own
> shortcomings. I feel like losing momentum and having an exceptionally busy
> schedule (even for me) was more to blame there -- I spent two weeks in
> Japan, and have been working 16-hour days finishing a project that I will
> be demonstrating at an MIT symposium in the near future. Those are great
> things for me personally, but have not been good for my involvement in
> OpenAz.
>
> Further, it has become apparent that Apache is not the right kind of
> organization for me or this project. It seems to be a process-heavy,
> patience-driven, slow-and-steady wins the race kind of approach geared
> toward maximizing small amounts of work by large numbers of people across
> the globe. Although I recognize the value of that approach, I feel like it
> is geared more toward developing software that is either 1) In high demand
> (and will thus have numerous volunteers); 2) Already quite mature (ready
> for its first release on the first day of incubation); or 3) Has a small,
> tightly-knit team largely working outside the Apache process but following
> just enough of the rules to stay alive until the popularity catches on or
> it has become mature enough for natural survival.
>
> My preferred approach is on the Kanban side of Agile: process-light,
> informal, momentum-driven development with minimal oversight, release early
> and often, with tight feedback loops everywhere, and real-time
> communications between a very small number of highly-dedicated developers.
> That's the startup methodology, and I feel like it is better geared toward
> bringing new things to market. I can also understand and respect why it
> might not be the best general methodology for Apache, and with their track
> record I could hardly say they're "doing it wrong." But I don't think it's
> for me.
>
> I still hope the project can somehow survive, but I won't be part of it.
> Good luck to everyone in their projects, present and future. I wish you
> all success in your ventures.
David,
many thanks for your efforts in the past few months. Not every projects
survive the Incubator period, and actually, this is the exact reason why
we have an incubator at the ASF.
Gathering new people to get the project kicking, and making it a TLP is
a tough thing. It takes time, energy, generates some frustration. Don't
blame yourself for anything, it's just that OpenAZ was not mature enough
to get traction, despite the efforts being put in it.
It can't be a one-man effort though, for the exact reasons you listed :
just because you were unable to participate for a few weeks demonstrated
that you were the only one ready to put some energy on the project,
making it non viable in the long run.
At least, you tried.
If anyone likes to fork it somewhere else, it's always a possibility :
the code won't disappear from The ASF repository. There are plenty of
other possibilities.
thanks !
Re: No report?
Posted by David Ash <gr...@gmail.com>.
I think the retirement talks should resume.
What little steam I had three months ago for keeping it alive is gone. We
lost momentum more quickly than we gained it. I had quickly lost the two
other volunteers I brought on (within days). And I have not managed to get
any additional individuals interested. Without significantly more people,
it's not viable. I also don't think I ever got the commit status I had
applied for (or at least I never got a reply to my question regarding that
status). But I also never performed any significant work that went
uncommitted, so I'd like to avoid that being an excuse for my own
shortcomings. I feel like losing momentum and having an exceptionally busy
schedule (even for me) was more to blame there -- I spent two weeks in
Japan, and have been working 16-hour days finishing a project that I will
be demonstrating at an MIT symposium in the near future. Those are great
things for me personally, but have not been good for my involvement in
OpenAz.
Further, it has become apparent that Apache is not the right kind of
organization for me or this project. It seems to be a process-heavy,
patience-driven, slow-and-steady wins the race kind of approach geared
toward maximizing small amounts of work by large numbers of people across
the globe. Although I recognize the value of that approach, I feel like it
is geared more toward developing software that is either 1) In high demand
(and will thus have numerous volunteers); 2) Already quite mature (ready
for its first release on the first day of incubation); or 3) Has a small,
tightly-knit team largely working outside the Apache process but following
just enough of the rules to stay alive until the popularity catches on or
it has become mature enough for natural survival.
My preferred approach is on the Kanban side of Agile: process-light,
informal, momentum-driven development with minimal oversight, release early
and often, with tight feedback loops everywhere, and real-time
communications between a very small number of highly-dedicated developers.
That's the startup methodology, and I feel like it is better geared toward
bringing new things to market. I can also understand and respect why it
might not be the best general methodology for Apache, and with their track
record I could hardly say they're "doing it wrong." But I don't think it's
for me.
I still hope the project can somehow survive, but I won't be part of it.
Good luck to everyone in their projects, present and future. I wish you
all success in your ventures.
Thanks!
David Ash
On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 9:42 AM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> OpenAz,
>
> We previously had a vote to retire this podling, and this would have been
> your third month reporting monthly since that. Your report is missing.
>
> Are we now in a situation where the retirement vote should restart? I saw
> that there was little mailing list activity other than the board report.
>
> John
>