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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by Méresse Christophe <ch...@nagra.com> on 2006/10/09 14:13:26 UTC
RE: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
> > Why don't you just redo the conversion, this time telling
> cvs2svn not
> > to apply svn:eol style properties? I think it has some
> option(s) for
> > controlling that. It only did it by default because you had the
> > corresponding CVS 'k' flags on those files, in fact.
>
> CVS would have been doing native eol conversion by default
> for everything not marked binary. Normally that's what
> you want at least in a cross platform environment (or one
> that might ever be). If that was working for you under CVS,
> why don't you want it under subversion?
>
Well, the fact is that with CVS, they were working on unix only but now that they have discovered TortoiseSVN, they often do their subversion operations on windows (throught samba) and work on unix. I know that may seem a bit strange... but anyway, that's like that. And that's why they don't want the versioning system to deal with the content of their files. (They are not the first developers I encountered who have this point of view (that this should not be the versioning system job), and I must admit that they may be right, but that's a long debate... :) )
My advice is that it would be great if subversion could overload the svn:eol-style property in the client configuration (or/and in the command lines options), but that's an other story.
Christophe Méresse
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Re: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Ted Dennison <de...@ssd.fsi.com>.
Duncan Murdoch wrote:
> What makes you think Unix text files wouldn't work under Windows?
> Most programmers' editors in Windows are quite happy with either style
> of line ending.
Emacs has no problem with it. Notepad can't handle it, but, as Duncan
alluded to, Notepad is not a programmer's editor. There's a lot it can't
handle.
--
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Home - mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage - http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html
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Re: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Travis P <sv...@castle.fastmail.fm>.
On Oct 10, 2006, at 4:17 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 09:56 -0500, Travis P wrote:
>
>> If you can identify the 'text' files, then you can avoid the
>> repository becoming non-uniform by adding a pre-commit hook that will
>> flag and prevent any commit of a text-file with anything but Unix-
>> style LF-only EOLs.
>
> Wouldn't the native cr/lf and cr-only types consider that
> antisocial and discriminatory?
There are none at our party. AIX, Linux, MacOS X, Solaris, HP-UX:
all get along well with only-LF allowed in our source repos. :-) And
all reap the significant performance benefits of no svn:eol-style
keywords on network filesystem working-copies (necessary for <=
Subversion 1.3 anyway).
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Re: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 09:56 -0500, Travis P wrote:
> If you can identify the 'text' files, then you can avoid the
> repository becoming non-uniform by adding a pre-commit hook that will
> flag and prevent any commit of a text-file with anything but Unix-
> style LF-only EOLs.
Wouldn't the native cr/lf and cr-only types consider that
antisocial and discriminatory?
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Re: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Travis P <sv...@castle.fastmail.fm>.
On Oct 10, 2006, at 10:04 AM, Erik Huelsmann wrote:
> On 10/10/06, Travis P <sv...@castle.fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> I've also found removing all svn:eol-style properties to be of great
>> worth: it speeds up WC access dramatically (where most WCs are on
>> AFS volumes and most access is on Un*x, including MacOS X, systems).
>
> But that is solved in 1.4.
Ah, good point, and I'm very much looking forward to transitioning to
1.4 in the near future. :-)
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Re: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Erik Huelsmann <eh...@gmail.com>.
On 10/10/06, Travis P <sv...@castle.fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> I've lost track who wrote: :-)
> > My editor used to default to CR-LF style text files, and that
> > caused occasional problems for the Unix users when I committed the
> > wrong EOLs, but I've got it set to use Unix style all the time now,
> > and it's just an easier way to live.
> [followed by some discussion of the implications about that]
>
> I've also found removing all svn:eol-style properties to be of great
> worth: it speeds up WC access dramatically (where most WCs are on
> AFS volumes and most access is on Un*x, including MacOS X, systems).
But that is solved in 1.4.
> If you can identify the 'text' files, then you can avoid the
> repository becoming non-uniform by adding a pre-commit hook that will
> flag and prevent any commit of a text-file with anything but Unix-
> style LF-only EOLs.
bye,
Erik.
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Re: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Travis P <sv...@castle.fastmail.fm>.
I've lost track who wrote: :-)
> My editor used to default to CR-LF style text files, and that
> caused occasional problems for the Unix users when I committed the
> wrong EOLs, but I've got it set to use Unix style all the time now,
> and it's just an easier way to live.
[followed by some discussion of the implications about that]
I've also found removing all svn:eol-style properties to be of great
worth: it speeds up WC access dramatically (where most WCs are on
AFS volumes and most access is on Un*x, including MacOS X, systems).
If you can identify the 'text' files, then you can avoid the
repository becoming non-uniform by adding a pre-commit hook that will
flag and prevent any commit of a text-file with anything but Unix-
style LF-only EOLs.
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Re: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 05:46, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
> >
> >> My editor used to default to CR-LF style text files, and that caused
> >> occasional problems for the Unix users when I committed the wrong EOLs,
> >> but I've got it set to use Unix style all the time now, and it's just an
> >> easier way to live.
> >
> > That's fine as long as you can dictate that everyone involved has to
> > use the same tools. What happens when you have to share text files
> > with someone who has made the opposite choice?
>
> Obviously then one of us will have to worry about conversion, and it'll
> be error prone. However, it isn't really a big problem, in that a smart
> editor will usually get the EOL style right by looking at a file: it's
> only new files that are likely to be wrong. So you need to be careful
> to agree on standards at the beginning of the conversation, and keep an
> eye out for mistakes.
>
> It's not exactly a unique problem. It's just the same thing with word
> processor files: I receive .doc, .wpd, .odf, and .rtf, and it's a bit
> of a pain when I get one that I don't use a lot, but I think it would be
> a lot worse if the communications channel tried to do automatic
> conversions for me.
The problem is that if you were pretending that a text file
was a binary file in your source control system, once anyone
else has treated it in this normal manner for some choice of
OS other than your own, every line becomes changed. While
you are correct about that happening with real binary files,
it doesn't have to happen to text if you treat it as text.
That is, you can cooperate with peers making different
choices and still be able to track changes.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Re: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Duncan Murdoch <mu...@stats.uwo.ca>.
On 10/9/2006 11:04 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
> On 10/9/06, Duncan Murdoch <mu...@stats.uwo.ca> wrote:
>
>> My editor used to default to CR-LF style text files, and that caused
>> occasional problems for the Unix users when I committed the wrong EOLs,
>> but I've got it set to use Unix style all the time now, and it's just an
>> easier way to live.
>
> That's fine as long as you can dictate that everyone involved has to
> use the same tools. What happens when you have to share text files
> with someone who has made the opposite choice?
Obviously then one of us will have to worry about conversion, and it'll
be error prone. However, it isn't really a big problem, in that a smart
editor will usually get the EOL style right by looking at a file: it's
only new files that are likely to be wrong. So you need to be careful
to agree on standards at the beginning of the conversation, and keep an
eye out for mistakes.
It's not exactly a unique problem. It's just the same thing with word
processor files: I receive .doc, .wpd, .odf, and .rtf, and it's a bit
of a pain when I get one that I don't use a lot, but I think it would be
a lot worse if the communications channel tried to do automatic
conversions for me.
Duncan Murdoch
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Re: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com>.
On 10/9/06, Duncan Murdoch <mu...@stats.uwo.ca> wrote:
> My editor used to default to CR-LF style text files, and that caused
> occasional problems for the Unix users when I committed the wrong EOLs,
> but I've got it set to use Unix style all the time now, and it's just an
> easier way to live.
That's fine as long as you can dictate that everyone involved has to
use the same tools. What happens when you have to share text files
with someone who has made the opposite choice?
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Re: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Duncan Murdoch <mu...@stats.uwo.ca>.
On 10/9/2006 2:11 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 12:41 -0400, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
>>>> My advice is that it would be great if subversion could overload
>>>> the svn:eol-style property in the client configuration (or/and in
>>>> the command lines options), but that's an other story.
>>> It would be great if text was portable. It isn't.
>> Sure it is, if you use the right tools. There are tools that don't
>> handle Unix style text, but I've found them easy to avoid.
>
> I guess we have different definitions of 'portable'. Mine
> would be that you don't need special tools. And as long as
> you do, why not use the one that fixes it in the right place?
I don't need special tools. The editor (Textpad) I use on all text
files was chosen before I started working on Unix-style files. Same for
most of the other tools I use, with the exception of the Cygwin ones,
which I adopted around the same time, not coincidentally. I don't use
Notepad, but I avoid it because it's a piece of crap in so many ways,
not just this one.
The reason the native eol-style property is a bad idea is because it
means the copy of the file in your working copy is not the same as
someone else's. You can only transmit files back and forth by
committing and checking them out. You can't pass someone a thumb drive
with a file on it (or email a file, or pass one on a CD, etc.) and
expect them to only see the changes you made: they'll also see all the
changes svn made, at the end of every line. You can't move whole
working copies from machine to machine, because they're not the same
everywhere.
My editor used to default to CR-LF style text files, and that caused
occasional problems for the Unix users when I committed the wrong EOLs,
but I've got it set to use Unix style all the time now, and it's just an
easier way to live.
Duncan Murdoch
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Re: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 12:41 -0400, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
> >
> >> My advice is that it would be great if subversion could overload
> >> the svn:eol-style property in the client configuration (or/and in
> >> the command lines options), but that's an other story.
> >
> > It would be great if text was portable. It isn't.
>
> Sure it is, if you use the right tools. There are tools that don't
> handle Unix style text, but I've found them easy to avoid.
I guess we have different definitions of 'portable'. Mine
would be that you don't need special tools. And as long as
you do, why not use the one that fixes it in the right place?
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Re: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Duncan Murdoch <mu...@stats.uwo.ca>.
On 10/9/2006 12:20 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 16:13 +0200, Méresse Christophe wrote:
>
>>> CVS would have been doing native eol conversion by default
>>> for everything not marked binary. Normally that's what
>>> you want at least in a cross platform environment (or one
>>> that might ever be). If that was working for you under CVS,
>>> why don't you want it under subversion?
>>>
>> Well, the fact is that with CVS, they were working on unix only
>> but now that they have discovered TortoiseSVN, they often do
>> their subversion operations on windows (throught samba) and
>> work on unix. I know that may seem a bit strange...
>> but anyway, that's like that. And that's why they don't want
>> the versioning system to deal with the content of their files.
>
> That's just bizarre. They want to check out files that won't
> work under the OS where they do it??
What makes you think Unix text files wouldn't work under Windows? Most
programmers' editors in Windows are quite happy with either style of
line ending.
>
>> (They are not the first developers I encountered who have this
>> point of view (that this should not be the versioning system job),
>> and I must admit that they may be right, but that's a long debate... :) )
>
> Given that text doesn't work unless converted for the native style
> and developers tend to work with text, I don't really get that
> concept. Wouldn't it be better to learn to use the native tools
> (maybe eclipse/subeclipse) in the first place instead of building
> something that will break when you do? If they want to work
> under windows, I also expect them to want to edit there too.
> Hasn't that come up?
>
>> My advice is that it would be great if subversion could overload
>> the svn:eol-style property in the client configuration (or/and in
>> the command lines options), but that's an other story.
>
> It would be great if text was portable. It isn't.
Sure it is, if you use the right tools. There are tools that don't
handle Unix style text, but I've found them easy to avoid.
Duncan Murdoch
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RE: How to remove all the svn:eol-style native from the repository?
Posted by Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 16:13 +0200, Méresse Christophe wrote:
> > CVS would have been doing native eol conversion by default
> > for everything not marked binary. Normally that's what
> > you want at least in a cross platform environment (or one
> > that might ever be). If that was working for you under CVS,
> > why don't you want it under subversion?
> >
>
> Well, the fact is that with CVS, they were working on unix only
> but now that they have discovered TortoiseSVN, they often do
> their subversion operations on windows (throught samba) and
> work on unix. I know that may seem a bit strange...
> but anyway, that's like that. And that's why they don't want
> the versioning system to deal with the content of their files.
That's just bizarre. They want to check out files that won't
work under the OS where they do it??
> (They are not the first developers I encountered who have this
> point of view (that this should not be the versioning system job),
> and I must admit that they may be right, but that's a long debate... :) )
Given that text doesn't work unless converted for the native style
and developers tend to work with text, I don't really get that
concept. Wouldn't it be better to learn to use the native tools
(maybe eclipse/subeclipse) in the first place instead of building
something that will break when you do? If they want to work
under windows, I also expect them to want to edit there too.
Hasn't that come up?
> My advice is that it would be great if subversion could overload
> the svn:eol-style property in the client configuration (or/and in
> the command lines options), but that's an other story.
It would be great if text was portable. It isn't.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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