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Posted to dev@hivemind.apache.org by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> on 2004/08/02 16:19:54 UTC
[VOTE] Discard SDL?
All this divisive talk about SDL vs. XML (vs. ???) is getting to be a
distraction from what HiveMind is all about. I think people are very
correct with the idea that the important thing is to minimize the
*amount* of content in the XML, regardless of the expression of that
content. That's where we should be concentrating ... and I have a few
ideas along that line.
Anyway, a +1 vote indicates that you feel SDL should be stripped out
of HiveMind (as a failed experment). I'm cool with that, as long as
people piitch in to convert the many SDL into XML.
Howard Lewis Ship: -0 (binding)
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
http://howardlewisship.com
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Re: [VOTE] Discard SDL?
Posted by robert kuzelj <ro...@yahoo.com>.
Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> All this divisive talk about SDL vs. XML (vs. ???) is getting to be a
> distraction from what HiveMind is all about. I think people are very
> correct with the idea that the important thing is to minimize the
> *amount* of content in the XML, regardless of the expression of that
> content. That's where we should be concentrating ... and I have a few
> ideas along that line.
>
> Anyway, a +1 vote indicates that you feel SDL should be stripped out
> of HiveMind (as a failed experment). I'm cool with that, as long as
> people piitch in to convert the many SDL into XML.
>
> Howard Lewis Ship: -0 (binding)
>
pleeeeaaaaseee dont do that.
sdl is exactly the simple data definition language yaml should have
been some 2 years ago.
it has so much value on and in itself.
--1
ciao robertj
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Re: [VOTE] Discard SDL?
Posted by Marcus Brito <mb...@gmail.com>.
+1 (non-binding)
HiveMind should stick with XML for it's core (bundled with the
distribution) configuration files for now. Plenty of reason has been
given alredy, with tool support being the one I really care. HiveMind
is already agnostic to the configuration format, so if anything SDL
should be conducted as a separate project, with no relations
whatsoever to HiveMind.
-- Marcus Brito
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Re: [VOTE] Discard SDL?
Posted by Harish Krishnaswamy <hk...@comcast.net>.
Erik Hatcher wrote:
> Perhaps scripting (Groovy is great, and the leading contender IMO) is
> the right way to go for configuration - but I'm not quite convinced yet.
>
Consider configurations where you have to write tons of schema
definitions and translators and such only to create an object and cache
it in the registry. IMO the whole schema thing is simply a burden.
-Harish
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Re: [VOTE] Discard SDL?
Posted by Erik Hatcher <er...@ehatchersolutions.com>.
+1 on removing SDL. It's an orthogonal issue to HiveMind and not worth
the battle. As for me, editing XML in IntelliJ is quite sweet when a
DTD or Schema is linked to it. I'd likely never get that same support
for variations like SDL.
As long as XML is not a mandatory way to configure things then someone
can always write a way to configure HiveMind in whatever way they want.
I've done this with Tapestry itself (where there is some weirdnesses
with XML-centric properties on objects that don't need it), and it
works fine.
Perhaps scripting (Groovy is great, and the leading contender IMO) is
the right way to go for configuration - but I'm not quite convinced
yet.
Erik
On Aug 2, 2004, at 10:19 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> All this divisive talk about SDL vs. XML (vs. ???) is getting to be a
> distraction from what HiveMind is all about. I think people are very
> correct with the idea that the important thing is to minimize the
> *amount* of content in the XML, regardless of the expression of that
> content. That's where we should be concentrating ... and I have a few
> ideas along that line.
>
> Anyway, a +1 vote indicates that you feel SDL should be stripped out
> of HiveMind (as a failed experment). I'm cool with that, as long as
> people piitch in to convert the many SDL into XML.
>
> Howard Lewis Ship: -0 (binding)
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: hivemind-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: hivemind-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Discard SDL?
Posted by Harish Krishnaswamy <hk...@comcast.net>.
SDL is simpler in context to XML. Although, I am still in favor of a
scripting language; I have done my experimentation and I am convinced a
scripting language is a much better fit considering configurations.
Between SDL and XML, I don't see much of a difference as such, but when
considering tool support, XML would probably win.
Harish Krishnaswamy: +0 (binding)
Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>All this divisive talk about SDL vs. XML (vs. ???) is getting to be a
>distraction from what HiveMind is all about. I think people are very
>correct with the idea that the important thing is to minimize the
>*amount* of content in the XML, regardless of the expression of that
>content. That's where we should be concentrating ... and I have a few
>ideas along that line.
>
>Anyway, a +1 vote indicates that you feel SDL should be stripped out
>of HiveMind (as a failed experment). I'm cool with that, as long as
>people piitch in to convert the many SDL into XML.
>
>Howard Lewis Ship: -0 (binding)
>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Discard SDL?
Posted by Pablo Lalloni <pl...@afip.gov.ar>.
XML is too verbose and not really very readable by humans, we read it
just because we're used to it... it was meant to be read & written by
machines, not us.
An eclipse SDL editor plugin would be a very nice thing to have, of
course.
So, here is my -1
Besides that I think that a standard SDL-like language is really needed,
on my current project we didn't wanted to be reading / writing our
configuration files on XML or plain properties files so we embraced
GroovyMarkup, then SDL came for HiveMind... so we currently have to deal
with two different but very alike syntaxes, this is really a pain.
Not to mention all those other framework's XMLs...
Hey, Howard, when we'll have SDL for every Tapestry descriptor? :D
Let's VOTE THAT!
El lun, 02-08-2004 a las 11:19, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
> All this divisive talk about SDL vs. XML (vs. ???) is getting to be a
> distraction from what HiveMind is all about. I think people are very
> correct with the idea that the important thing is to minimize the
> *amount* of content in the XML, regardless of the expression of that
> content. That's where we should be concentrating ... and I have a few
> ideas along that line.
>
> Anyway, a +1 vote indicates that you feel SDL should be stripped out
> of HiveMind (as a failed experment). I'm cool with that, as long as
> people piitch in to convert the many SDL into XML.
>
> Howard Lewis Ship: -0 (binding)
--
Pablo I. Lalloni <pl...@afip.gov.ar>
Teléfono +54 (11) 4347-3177
Proyecto Pampa
Dirección Informática Tributaria
AFIP
> In 2010, M$ Windows will be a quantum processing emulation layer for a
> 128-bit mod of a 64-bit hack of a 32-bit patch to a 16-bit GUI for an
> 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor from a 2-bit
> company that can't stand 1 bit of competition.
Re: [VOTE] Discard SDL?
Posted by Achim Huegen <ah...@gmx-topmail.de>.
I feel guilty. Probably it was my wiki entry that caused this vote
and I hate to destroy other peoples work.
Nevertheless I regard a proprietary language as wrong approach.
At least it should stand back from xml and be the secondary language only.
Achim Huegen: +1 (not binding)
Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> All this divisive talk about SDL vs. XML (vs. ???) is getting to be a
> distraction from what HiveMind is all about. I think people are very
> correct with the idea that the important thing is to minimize the
> *amount* of content in the XML, regardless of the expression of that
> content. That's where we should be concentrating ... and I have a few
> ideas along that line.
>
> Anyway, a +1 vote indicates that you feel SDL should be stripped out
> of HiveMind (as a failed experment). I'm cool with that, as long as
> people piitch in to convert the many SDL into XML.
>
> Howard Lewis Ship: -0 (binding)
>
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Re: [VOTE] Discard SDL?
Posted by Naresh Sikha <na...@gmail.com>.
+1 (non-binding)
I think *tools* should be provided to make authoring HiveMind
descriptors a simpler task. I think focusing on the verbosity of the
final descriptor detracts from, IMHO, this more important issue.
Eclipse plugins (or other IDE plugins) that can validate that
descriptors are valid over an entire .ear file will quickly settle the
debate over XML/SDL.
I vote in favor of dedicating more resources to tools.
Cheers.
-Naresh Sikha
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:34:45 -0400, James Carman
<ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
> I vote +1 (non-binding). Editing SDL in Intellij (as someone else already
> pointed out) is a burden. XML is THE de-facto standard (whether it is
> justified or not) for these types of configuration/deployment descriptor
> documents. Everyone (well, everyone who's anyone) already knows and
> understands XML and how it works. This scripting idea sounds interesting,
> but I'd like to see an example of how it is going to work.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard Lewis Ship [mailto:hlship@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:20 AM
> To: hivemind-dev@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: [VOTE] Discard SDL?
>
> All this divisive talk about SDL vs. XML (vs. ???) is getting to be a
> distraction from what HiveMind is all about. I think people are very
> correct with the idea that the important thing is to minimize the
> *amount* of content in the XML, regardless of the expression of that
> content. That's where we should be concentrating ... and I have a few
> ideas along that line.
>
> Anyway, a +1 vote indicates that you feel SDL should be stripped out
> of HiveMind (as a failed experment). I'm cool with that, as long as
> people piitch in to convert the many SDL into XML.
>
> Howard Lewis Ship: -0 (binding)
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: hivemind-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: hivemind-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: hivemind-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: hivemind-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Discard SDL?
Posted by Harish Krishnaswamy <hk...@comcast.net>.
James Carman wrote:
>This scripting idea sounds interesting,
>but I'd like to see an example of how it is going to work.
>
There is an example in the wiki at
http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-hivemind/NotXMLProposal.
-Harish
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RE: [VOTE] Discard SDL?
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
I vote +1 (non-binding). Editing SDL in Intellij (as someone else already
pointed out) is a burden. XML is THE de-facto standard (whether it is
justified or not) for these types of configuration/deployment descriptor
documents. Everyone (well, everyone who's anyone) already knows and
understands XML and how it works. This scripting idea sounds interesting,
but I'd like to see an example of how it is going to work.
-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Lewis Ship [mailto:hlship@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:20 AM
To: hivemind-dev@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: [VOTE] Discard SDL?
All this divisive talk about SDL vs. XML (vs. ???) is getting to be a
distraction from what HiveMind is all about. I think people are very
correct with the idea that the important thing is to minimize the
*amount* of content in the XML, regardless of the expression of that
content. That's where we should be concentrating ... and I have a few
ideas along that line.
Anyway, a +1 vote indicates that you feel SDL should be stripped out
of HiveMind (as a failed experment). I'm cool with that, as long as
people piitch in to convert the many SDL into XML.
Howard Lewis Ship: -0 (binding)
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
http://howardlewisship.com
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