You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org> on 2011/07/31 22:59:50 UTC
Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
On ooo-dev, we continue to ponder how we can support the existing OpenOffice.org web site and the subdomains thereof with minimal friction and maximum preservation of the accumulated material. Here is a thumbnail of what the objectives are:
<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Transition+Planning> (with the understanding that development-focused aspects would move, at least in part, to Apache locations from the OpenOffice.org location).
Assuming
1. That the OpenOffice.org domain lease is transferred to the Apache Software Foundation
2. That sufficient volunteers come forward to support whatever the infrastructure support requirements are, and
3. There are no legal@ objections,
Question
4. Is it technically feasible and acceptable to have, operating on Apache infrastructure, the OpenOffice.org web site and subdomains as open public sites operating with software that would otherwise not be very tasty on Apache (PHPBB which is GPLd and may have some customizations, for example)?
I know that is very hypothetical in this form, but it is not worth navigating (1-3) unless 4 would work at the end of the day.
- Dennis
Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by Terry Ellison <Te...@ellisons.org.uk>.
On 01/08/11 10:01, Gavin McDonald wrote:
> Hi Terry, I have no issues with mysql, we have a few under VMs and are ok, we could move
> to postgres at a later date if needed - if we went that far I'd also consider moving to FreeBSD.
>
> Anyway, for now, can you give me some Ubuntu VM specs so I can create them for the Forums
> and the Wiki -- we can then get them setup and working as a test and ready for a final dump/load
> when we switch over, in the meantime we can check the loads of the VM hosts etc to be sure
> all will be ok.
>
> Just amount of RAM and disk space required should be all I need - and 1 or 2 cpu , then I'll get an
> Ubuntu VM up for each. We try and stick to LTS releases so will get it to 10.04.3 LTS version unless
> you have a reason we should use a later Ubuntu release.
I track Ubuntu current for my laptop and home server, and use Ubuntu LTS
by preference for my LAMP VMs. I use a 2 disk split with a common
immutable system image and an app-specific /var (with callback hooks in
the startup so the app can tailor the system). I've just rebaseline my
VMs from 10.04-1 LTS to 10.03-1 LTS. If you guys have already developed
an Ubuntu VM template then I can always pick up that. If not then I'll
write up my template and make sure the licensing of my IPR / content is
OK, so you have the option to reuse it.
I would prefer to stick with Ubuntu VMs for now because I like to keep
local mirrors of any prod system for release development/rehearsal and
hunting down live problems. I currently use VirtualBox, but I can
reinstall VMserver on my local server so that I can switch my VMs from
VBox Guest Utils to VMware Tools. (I like to exactly mirror any prod
systems locally.)
Installing and getting to grips with the bowels of FreeBSD server is
just another learning curve that I would like to avoid at the moment.
I've already got a learning curve on compliance with your own
infrastructure standards on Identification & Access Control, Backup,
Logging, Intrusion Detection, Status Report, ....
//Terry
Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by C <sm...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 11:01, Gavin McDonald <ga...@16degrees.com.au> wrote:
> Hi Terry, I have no issues with mysql, we have a few under VMs and are ok, we could move
> to postgres at a later date if needed - if we went that far I'd also consider moving to FreeBSD.
>
> Anyway, for now, can you give me some Ubuntu VM specs so I can create them for the Forums
> and the Wiki -- we can then get them setup and working as a test and ready for a final dump/load
> when we switch over, in the meantime we can check the loads of the VM hosts etc to be sure
> all will be ok.
>
> Just amount of RAM and disk space required should be all I need - and 1 or 2 cpu , then I'll get an
> Ubuntu VM up for each. We try and stick to LTS releases so will get it to 10.04.3 LTS version unless
> you have a reason we should use a later Ubuntu release.
Ubuntu LTS should not be an issue for the OOoWiki. The software
dependencies for the Wiki are not so high. It's currently running on
MySQL 5.0.33 and pHp 5.2.0, so that or newer is fine. Any recent
Imagemagick should work for thumbnailing. We should use this
opportunity to shift over to the latest MediaWiki release as well.
Beyond that... I can't think of any exotic requirements... just a
standard LAMP stack from the 10.04 LTS should be enough. Terry...
have I missed anything?
Terry is the best one to recommend the virtual hardware requirements.
We've talked a bit off and on about the optimizations. If we have a
chance in the move to implement things like Squid, APC etc, it'll
substantially reduce the current load on the web server side and thus
reduce the VM requirements.
Clayton
RE: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by Gavin McDonald <ga...@16degrees.com.au>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TerryE [mailto:ooo@ellisons.org.uk]
> Sent: Monday, 1 August 2011 9:14 AM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Wolf Halton
> Subject: Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
>
> Hi Wolf,
>
> Long time, no speak. It would be good to catch up.
>
> On 31/07/11 23:15, Wolf Halton wrote:
> > Hi Terry,
> > Welcome to the party!
> > I have heard that database software runs less well on VMs and I am
> > working on developing a project using postgresql at work to test that.
> >
> Yup, but the main issue here is for I/O intensive apps, unless the
> virtualisation technology has accelerated I/O paths (for example VMware ESX
> does this). With the forums if the VM has a 2Gb or more then enough
> content is memory cached that I/O performance isn't really an issue
> whatever the VM technology.
>
> MediaWiki is a different story. It is D/B heavy. However, most of the current
> access is guest access so using a Squid or Varnish cache would drop the
> database I/O by a factory of up to 10 with current transaction patterns. We
> can work these issues. And yes, I can move back from MySQL to PostgreSQL
> as the forums used to run on this in the past, but its another task on the
> migration plan that I would prefer to avoid.
>
> Regards Terry
Hi Terry, I have no issues with mysql, we have a few under VMs and are ok, we could move
to postgres at a later date if needed - if we went that far I'd also consider moving to FreeBSD.
Anyway, for now, can you give me some Ubuntu VM specs so I can create them for the Forums
and the Wiki -- we can then get them setup and working as a test and ready for a final dump/load
when we switch over, in the meantime we can check the loads of the VM hosts etc to be sure
all will be ok.
Just amount of RAM and disk space required should be all I need - and 1 or 2 cpu , then I'll get an
Ubuntu VM up for each. We try and stick to LTS releases so will get it to 10.04.3 LTS version unless
you have a reason we should use a later Ubuntu release.
Thanks
Gav...
Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by TerryE <oo...@ellisons.org.uk>.
Hi Wolf,
Long time, no speak. It would be good to catch up.
On 31/07/11 23:15, Wolf Halton wrote:
> Hi Terry,
> Welcome to the party!
> I have heard that database software runs less well on VMs and I am working
> on developing a project using postgresql at work to test that.
>
Yup, but the main issue here is for I/O intensive apps, unless the
virtualisation technology has accelerated I/O paths (for example VMware
ESX does this). With the forums if the VM has a 2Gb or more then enough
content is memory cached that I/O performance isn't really an issue
whatever the VM technology.
MediaWiki is a different story. It is D/B heavy. However, most of the
current access is guest access so using a Squid or Varnish cache would
drop the database I/O by a factory of up to 10 with current transaction
patterns. We can work these issues. And yes, I can move back from
MySQL to PostgreSQL as the forums used to run on this in the past, but
its another task on the migration plan that I would prefer to avoid.
Regards Terry
Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by Wolf Halton <wo...@gmail.com>.
Hi Terry,
Welcome to the party!
I have heard that database software runs less well on VMs and I am working
on developing a project using postgresql at work to test that.
-Wolf
On Jul 31, 2011 6:07 PM, "Terry Ellison" <Te...@ellisons.org.uk> wrote:
> On 31/07/11 22:23, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
>> <de...@acm.org> wrote:
>>
>> (Taking Infrastructure off the cc. We should go to them when we have
>> something a bit more concrete. Also, remember that we have mentors
>> from Apache Infrastructure on this list.)
>>
>>> On ooo-dev, we continue to ponder how we can support the existing
OpenOffice.org web site and the subdomains thereof with minimal friction and
maximum preservation of the accumulated material. Here is a thumbnail of
what the objectives are:
>>> <
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Transition+Planning>
(with the understanding that development-focused aspects would move, at
least in part, to Apache locations from the OpenOffice.org location).
>>>
>>> Assuming
>>>
>>> 1. That the OpenOffice.org domain lease is transferred to the Apache
Software Foundation
>>> 2. That sufficient volunteers come forward to support whatever the
infrastructure support requirements are, and
>>> 3. There are no legal@ objections,
>>>
>>> Question
>>>
>>> 4. Is it technically feasible and acceptable to have, operating on
Apache infrastructure, the OpenOffice.org web site and subdomains as open
public sites operating with software that would otherwise not be very tasty
on Apache (PHPBB which is GPLd and may have some customizations, for
example)?
>>>
> We need to differentiate between software that Apache.org will formally
> distribute to third parties (here licensing is a critical issue), and
> software that it might use internally to deliver its own services such
> as the provision of forums (Linux, MySQL, PHP, ...). Here it only needs
> to satisfy the terms the software licence and GPL isn't an issue. So I
> don't see any problems here for phpBB and MediaWiki. As to the OOo
> forum-specific mods -- I wrote them all and Apache can have them under
> any licence that is required.
>> So you're asking a 1-sentence technical feasibility question for an
>> extremely complex topic with no supporting proposal, plan or other
>> supporting details? What kind of answer would you expect to this?
>> What answer would you give if someone asked you this question? Would
>> you expect anything but "well, it depends"?
>>
>>> I know that is very hypothetical in this form, but it is not worth
navigating (1-3) unless 4 would work at the end of the day.
>>>
>> Doing 1-2 is what makes 4 possible to discuss. And we should focus on
>> 2. If volunteers do it, then it is technically feasible.
>>
> Both the OOo forums and the OOo wiki can run on a standard LAMP stack.
> I've pretty much optimised the forums for a LAMP stack; they need a
> one-core equivalent CPU load and with 4Gb RAM enough is memory-cached to
> have a tiny I/O load.
>
> The wiki is a bit more of a hog and need 4-cores, but it currently
> doesn't use a PHP opcode cache and this would halve this load. Most of
> the access is guest, so using a squid or varnish front-end will drop
> this significantly.
>
> The simplest way to provide this service would be to use VMs and AFAIK
> this is a model that the a.o infrastructure guys understand.
>
> Regards Terry
Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by Terry Ellison <Te...@ellisons.org.uk>.
On 31/07/11 22:23, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
> <de...@acm.org> wrote:
>
> (Taking Infrastructure off the cc. We should go to them when we have
> something a bit more concrete. Also, remember that we have mentors
> from Apache Infrastructure on this list.)
>
>> On ooo-dev, we continue to ponder how we can support the existing OpenOffice.org web site and the subdomains thereof with minimal friction and maximum preservation of the accumulated material. Here is a thumbnail of what the objectives are:
>> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Transition+Planning> (with the understanding that development-focused aspects would move, at least in part, to Apache locations from the OpenOffice.org location).
>>
>> Assuming
>>
>> 1. That the OpenOffice.org domain lease is transferred to the Apache Software Foundation
>> 2. That sufficient volunteers come forward to support whatever the infrastructure support requirements are, and
>> 3. There are no legal@ objections,
>>
>> Question
>>
>> 4. Is it technically feasible and acceptable to have, operating on Apache infrastructure, the OpenOffice.org web site and subdomains as open public sites operating with software that would otherwise not be very tasty on Apache (PHPBB which is GPLd and may have some customizations, for example)?
>>
We need to differentiate between software that Apache.org will formally
distribute to third parties (here licensing is a critical issue), and
software that it might use internally to deliver its own services such
as the provision of forums (Linux, MySQL, PHP, ...). Here it only needs
to satisfy the terms the software licence and GPL isn't an issue. So I
don't see any problems here for phpBB and MediaWiki. As to the OOo
forum-specific mods -- I wrote them all and Apache can have them under
any licence that is required.
> So you're asking a 1-sentence technical feasibility question for an
> extremely complex topic with no supporting proposal, plan or other
> supporting details? What kind of answer would you expect to this?
> What answer would you give if someone asked you this question? Would
> you expect anything but "well, it depends"?
>
>> I know that is very hypothetical in this form, but it is not worth navigating (1-3) unless 4 would work at the end of the day.
>>
> Doing 1-2 is what makes 4 possible to discuss. And we should focus on
> 2. If volunteers do it, then it is technically feasible.
>
Both the OOo forums and the OOo wiki can run on a standard LAMP stack.
I've pretty much optimised the forums for a LAMP stack; they need a
one-core equivalent CPU load and with 4Gb RAM enough is memory-cached to
have a tiny I/O load.
The wiki is a bit more of a hog and need 4-cores, but it currently
doesn't use a PHP opcode cache and this would halve this load. Most of
the access is guest, so using a squid or varnish front-end will drop
this significantly.
The simplest way to provide this service would be to use VMs and AFAIK
this is a model that the a.o infrastructure guys understand.
Regards Terry
Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<de...@acm.org> wrote:
(Taking Infrastructure off the cc. We should go to them when we have
something a bit more concrete. Also, remember that we have mentors
from Apache Infrastructure on this list.)
> On ooo-dev, we continue to ponder how we can support the existing OpenOffice.org web site and the subdomains thereof with minimal friction and maximum preservation of the accumulated material. Here is a thumbnail of what the objectives are:
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Transition+Planning> (with the understanding that development-focused aspects would move, at least in part, to Apache locations from the OpenOffice.org location).
>
> Assuming
>
> 1. That the OpenOffice.org domain lease is transferred to the Apache Software Foundation
> 2. That sufficient volunteers come forward to support whatever the infrastructure support requirements are, and
> 3. There are no legal@ objections,
>
> Question
>
> 4. Is it technically feasible and acceptable to have, operating on Apache infrastructure, the OpenOffice.org web site and subdomains as open public sites operating with software that would otherwise not be very tasty on Apache (PHPBB which is GPLd and may have some customizations, for example)?
>
So you're asking a 1-sentence technical feasibility question for an
extremely complex topic with no supporting proposal, plan or other
supporting details? What kind of answer would you expect to this?
What answer would you give if someone asked you this question? Would
you expect anything but "well, it depends"?
> I know that is very hypothetical in this form, but it is not worth navigating (1-3) unless 4 would work at the end of the day.
>
Doing 1-2 is what makes 4 possible to discuss. And we should focus on
2. If volunteers do it, then it is technically feasible.
> - Dennis
>
>
>
>
Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 31/07/2011 23:46, TerryE wrote:
> On 31/07/11 23:09, Mark Thomas wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> I would imagine that these services would be hosted on project managed
>> virtual machines of some form and whoever manages them now would
>> continue to manage them. The central infra team may end up managing some
>> aspects such as DNS. The detail can be worked on as part of the
>> incubation process.
>>
>> The much more important question is who will support it. There have been
>> far too many examples of projects requesting a service, promising to
>> help support it and then never being heard from again when it needs
>> maintenance. If the current maintenance is performed by Oracle rather
>> than the community there will be concerns about the viability of that
>> model.
>>
>> On a related note, infrastructure will not tolerate project managed
>> systems that are insecure. We will shut them down first and ask
>> questions later. Projects are expected to keep on top of security for
>> the services that they manage. We do arrange things so projects can only
>> shoot themselves in the foot but will still expect security to be
>> maintained.
>>
>> Mark
>>
> Mark,
>
> I've been administering the forums for 4 years, including bringing on 8
> new languages, a migration from PostgreSQL to MySQL (when Sun bought
> MySQL LoL), and 5 phpBB upgrades. The only service outages that we've
> had were when there were H/W problems in the Sun Datacentre. I've
> automated just about all of the housekeeping, so there is no daily /
> weekly / monthly manual invention required. So I think that we have a
> good track record here.
>
> The wiki is more problematic since this was run by Oracle employees who
> have now been 'let-go'. However, I used to help with the main guy with
> advice on Apache / MediaWiki / PHP / MySQL tuning and so I know and
> have interactive access to the systen. I can rehost this and continue
> to run it on a 'sustain' basis so that we can continue to provide the
> service until the project works out its migration / retirement plans.
>
> Yes, I am a single point of failure, but I am more than willing to
> document the SysOps and or train up someone else. It's just that
> there's a dearth of LAMP developer / admins amongst the OOo user
> community. Another member of the ooo-dev list used help until I
> automated everything and he had other priorities in the project. I used
> to be the operations CTO for EDS in Europe before I retired early and
> went back to the simple stuff as a hobby, so I understand all about the
> security side!
That all sounds good to me.
> I've got D/R / maintenance copies of both the forums and the wiki on a
> couple of standard Ubuntu 10.04-3 LTS VMs, but if you have any
> guidelines / VM templates / management interface documentation then send
> me a copy and I'll reflect them in my plans / work.
That is mostly all in the infra svn repository.
> And BTW, a simple Q: what virtualisation technology are using in your
> prod environment? VMware, KVM or what?
VMware, Solaris Zones (on the way out - slowly), FreeBSD jails.
See
http://monitoring.apache.org/status/
and
http://www.apache.org/dev/machines.html
for more details.
Mark
Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 31/07/2011 23:46, TerryE wrote:
> On 31/07/11 23:09, Mark Thomas wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> I would imagine that these services would be hosted on project managed
>> virtual machines of some form and whoever manages them now would
>> continue to manage them. The central infra team may end up managing some
>> aspects such as DNS. The detail can be worked on as part of the
>> incubation process.
>>
>> The much more important question is who will support it. There have been
>> far too many examples of projects requesting a service, promising to
>> help support it and then never being heard from again when it needs
>> maintenance. If the current maintenance is performed by Oracle rather
>> than the community there will be concerns about the viability of that
>> model.
>>
>> On a related note, infrastructure will not tolerate project managed
>> systems that are insecure. We will shut them down first and ask
>> questions later. Projects are expected to keep on top of security for
>> the services that they manage. We do arrange things so projects can only
>> shoot themselves in the foot but will still expect security to be
>> maintained.
>>
>> Mark
>>
> Mark,
>
> I've been administering the forums for 4 years, including bringing on 8
> new languages, a migration from PostgreSQL to MySQL (when Sun bought
> MySQL LoL), and 5 phpBB upgrades. The only service outages that we've
> had were when there were H/W problems in the Sun Datacentre. I've
> automated just about all of the housekeeping, so there is no daily /
> weekly / monthly manual invention required. So I think that we have a
> good track record here.
>
> The wiki is more problematic since this was run by Oracle employees who
> have now been 'let-go'. However, I used to help with the main guy with
> advice on Apache / MediaWiki / PHP / MySQL tuning and so I know and
> have interactive access to the systen. I can rehost this and continue
> to run it on a 'sustain' basis so that we can continue to provide the
> service until the project works out its migration / retirement plans.
>
> Yes, I am a single point of failure, but I am more than willing to
> document the SysOps and or train up someone else. It's just that
> there's a dearth of LAMP developer / admins amongst the OOo user
> community. Another member of the ooo-dev list used help until I
> automated everything and he had other priorities in the project. I used
> to be the operations CTO for EDS in Europe before I retired early and
> went back to the simple stuff as a hobby, so I understand all about the
> security side!
That all sounds good to me.
> I've got D/R / maintenance copies of both the forums and the wiki on a
> couple of standard Ubuntu 10.04-3 LTS VMs, but if you have any
> guidelines / VM templates / management interface documentation then send
> me a copy and I'll reflect them in my plans / work.
That is mostly all in the infra svn repository.
> And BTW, a simple Q: what virtualisation technology are using in your
> prod environment? VMware, KVM or what?
VMware, Solaris Zones (on the way out - slowly), FreeBSD jails.
See
http://monitoring.apache.org/status/
and
http://www.apache.org/dev/machines.html
for more details.
Mark
Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by TerryE <oo...@ellisons.org.uk>.
On 31/07/11 23:09, Mark Thomas wrote:
<snip>
> I would imagine that these services would be hosted on project managed
> virtual machines of some form and whoever manages them now would
> continue to manage them. The central infra team may end up managing some
> aspects such as DNS. The detail can be worked on as part of the
> incubation process.
>
> The much more important question is who will support it. There have been
> far too many examples of projects requesting a service, promising to
> help support it and then never being heard from again when it needs
> maintenance. If the current maintenance is performed by Oracle rather
> than the community there will be concerns about the viability of that model.
>
> On a related note, infrastructure will not tolerate project managed
> systems that are insecure. We will shut them down first and ask
> questions later. Projects are expected to keep on top of security for
> the services that they manage. We do arrange things so projects can only
> shoot themselves in the foot but will still expect security to be
> maintained.
>
> Mark
>
Mark,
I've been administering the forums for 4 years, including bringing on 8
new languages, a migration from PostgreSQL to MySQL (when Sun bought
MySQL LoL), and 5 phpBB upgrades. The only service outages that we've
had were when there were H/W problems in the Sun Datacentre. I've
automated just about all of the housekeeping, so there is no daily /
weekly / monthly manual invention required. So I think that we have a
good track record here.
The wiki is more problematic since this was run by Oracle employees who
have now been 'let-go'. However, I used to help with the main guy with
advice on Apache / MediaWiki / PHP / MySQL tuning and so I know and
have interactive access to the systen. I can rehost this and continue
to run it on a 'sustain' basis so that we can continue to provide the
service until the project works out its migration / retirement plans.
Yes, I am a single point of failure, but I am more than willing to
document the SysOps and or train up someone else. It's just that
there's a dearth of LAMP developer / admins amongst the OOo user
community. Another member of the ooo-dev list used help until I
automated everything and he had other priorities in the project. I used
to be the operations CTO for EDS in Europe before I retired early and
went back to the simple stuff as a hobby, so I understand all about the
security side!
I've got D/R / maintenance copies of both the forums and the wiki on a
couple of standard Ubuntu 10.04-3 LTS VMs, but if you have any
guidelines / VM templates / management interface documentation then send
me a copy and I'll reflect them in my plans / work.
And BTW, a simple Q: what virtualisation technology are using in your
prod environment? VMware, KVM or what?
Regards Terry
Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by TerryE <oo...@ellisons.org.uk>.
On 31/07/11 23:09, Mark Thomas wrote:
<snip>
> I would imagine that these services would be hosted on project managed
> virtual machines of some form and whoever manages them now would
> continue to manage them. The central infra team may end up managing some
> aspects such as DNS. The detail can be worked on as part of the
> incubation process.
>
> The much more important question is who will support it. There have been
> far too many examples of projects requesting a service, promising to
> help support it and then never being heard from again when it needs
> maintenance. If the current maintenance is performed by Oracle rather
> than the community there will be concerns about the viability of that model.
>
> On a related note, infrastructure will not tolerate project managed
> systems that are insecure. We will shut them down first and ask
> questions later. Projects are expected to keep on top of security for
> the services that they manage. We do arrange things so projects can only
> shoot themselves in the foot but will still expect security to be
> maintained.
>
> Mark
>
Mark,
I've been administering the forums for 4 years, including bringing on 8
new languages, a migration from PostgreSQL to MySQL (when Sun bought
MySQL LoL), and 5 phpBB upgrades. The only service outages that we've
had were when there were H/W problems in the Sun Datacentre. I've
automated just about all of the housekeeping, so there is no daily /
weekly / monthly manual invention required. So I think that we have a
good track record here.
The wiki is more problematic since this was run by Oracle employees who
have now been 'let-go'. However, I used to help with the main guy with
advice on Apache / MediaWiki / PHP / MySQL tuning and so I know and
have interactive access to the systen. I can rehost this and continue
to run it on a 'sustain' basis so that we can continue to provide the
service until the project works out its migration / retirement plans.
Yes, I am a single point of failure, but I am more than willing to
document the SysOps and or train up someone else. It's just that
there's a dearth of LAMP developer / admins amongst the OOo user
community. Another member of the ooo-dev list used help until I
automated everything and he had other priorities in the project. I used
to be the operations CTO for EDS in Europe before I retired early and
went back to the simple stuff as a hobby, so I understand all about the
security side!
I've got D/R / maintenance copies of both the forums and the wiki on a
couple of standard Ubuntu 10.04-3 LTS VMs, but if you have any
guidelines / VM templates / management interface documentation then send
me a copy and I'll reflect them in my plans / work.
And BTW, a simple Q: what virtualisation technology are using in your
prod environment? VMware, KVM or what?
Regards Terry
Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 31/07/2011 21:59, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> On ooo-dev, we continue to ponder how we can support the existing OpenOffice.org web site and the subdomains thereof with minimal friction and maximum preservation of the accumulated material. Here is a thumbnail of what the objectives are:
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Transition+Planning> (with the understanding that development-focused aspects would move, at least in part, to Apache locations from the OpenOffice.org location).
>
> Assuming
>
> 1. That the OpenOffice.org domain lease is transferred to the Apache Software Foundation
> 2. That sufficient volunteers come forward to support whatever the infrastructure support requirements are, and
> 3. There are no legal@ objections,
>
> Question
>
> 4. Is it technically feasible and acceptable to have, operating on Apache infrastructure, the OpenOffice.org web site and subdomains as open public sites operating with software that would otherwise not be very tasty on Apache (PHPBB which is GPLd and may have some customizations, for example)?
Why would GPL be an issue? Last time I checked large parts of Linux were
GPL and we happily run that. We prefer to eat our own dogfood but will
happily run most things if it is the right tool for the task at hand. If
you look at what infra runs today, there is a wide range of proprietary
and open source software with a very wide range of licences.
> I know that is very hypothetical in this form, but it is not worth navigating (1-3) unless 4 would work at the end of the day.
I would imagine that these services would be hosted on project managed
virtual machines of some form and whoever manages them now would
continue to manage them. The central infra team may end up managing some
aspects such as DNS. The detail can be worked on as part of the
incubation process.
The much more important question is who will support it. There have been
far too many examples of projects requesting a service, promising to
help support it and then never being heard from again when it needs
maintenance. If the current maintenance is performed by Oracle rather
than the community there will be concerns about the viability of that model.
On a related note, infrastructure will not tolerate project managed
systems that are insecure. We will shut them down first and ask
questions later. Projects are expected to keep on top of security for
the services that they manage. We do arrange things so projects can only
shoot themselves in the foot but will still expect security to be
maintained.
Mark
Re: Questions: LAMP and PHPBB for OpenOffice.org
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 31/07/2011 21:59, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> On ooo-dev, we continue to ponder how we can support the existing OpenOffice.org web site and the subdomains thereof with minimal friction and maximum preservation of the accumulated material. Here is a thumbnail of what the objectives are:
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Transition+Planning> (with the understanding that development-focused aspects would move, at least in part, to Apache locations from the OpenOffice.org location).
>
> Assuming
>
> 1. That the OpenOffice.org domain lease is transferred to the Apache Software Foundation
> 2. That sufficient volunteers come forward to support whatever the infrastructure support requirements are, and
> 3. There are no legal@ objections,
>
> Question
>
> 4. Is it technically feasible and acceptable to have, operating on Apache infrastructure, the OpenOffice.org web site and subdomains as open public sites operating with software that would otherwise not be very tasty on Apache (PHPBB which is GPLd and may have some customizations, for example)?
Why would GPL be an issue? Last time I checked large parts of Linux were
GPL and we happily run that. We prefer to eat our own dogfood but will
happily run most things if it is the right tool for the task at hand. If
you look at what infra runs today, there is a wide range of proprietary
and open source software with a very wide range of licences.
> I know that is very hypothetical in this form, but it is not worth navigating (1-3) unless 4 would work at the end of the day.
I would imagine that these services would be hosted on project managed
virtual machines of some form and whoever manages them now would
continue to manage them. The central infra team may end up managing some
aspects such as DNS. The detail can be worked on as part of the
incubation process.
The much more important question is who will support it. There have been
far too many examples of projects requesting a service, promising to
help support it and then never being heard from again when it needs
maintenance. If the current maintenance is performed by Oracle rather
than the community there will be concerns about the viability of that model.
On a related note, infrastructure will not tolerate project managed
systems that are insecure. We will shut them down first and ask
questions later. Projects are expected to keep on top of security for
the services that they manage. We do arrange things so projects can only
shoot themselves in the foot but will still expect security to be
maintained.
Mark