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Posted to dev@pivot.apache.org by Greg Brown <gk...@mac.com> on 2009/08/21 16:13:56 UTC
Re: Preferences Demo
>> Since preferences APIs are generally built on top of persistence
>> APIs, it might be more valuable to write a persistence demo - I'd
>> especially like to see an example that uses the JNLP APIs to
>> support local storage in untrusted code. That way, readers can
>> apply the example to a wider range of use cases.
>
> Ok, that's why I was thinking of a simple TODO List ... otherwise
> ideas (as you said, saving/loading the current window position, etc
> could be enough) ?
I think it would be more valuable to show a "persistence" example than
a "preferences" example, since you can build preferences on top of
persistence.
> And a last thing, to use Web Start, I have to put also a jnlp file
> (and jnlp files must have the right codebase path inside them, or
> there should be a servlet that handle this ...), but we need to
> publish also this stuff inside the demos, if i remember well you or
> Todd have done an ant task to package a webapp, right ? Or put this
> only on wiki with only an on-line demo (with source code) ?
> Should i use something like this ? Ideas / suggestions ?
You should be able to add a JSP to the demos WAR that generates a JNLP
file with the correct codebase.
Persistence (was: Re: Preferences Demo)
Posted by Thomas Guretzki <Th...@tik.info>.
Hello Pivoteers,
the current discussion about preferences and persistence
just inspired me to pose a question:
Is there currently a possibility, or could it be made possible,
to bind Entity Objects (used in a pivot application as storage for the ui)
via JDBC to Rows in a Database? Without going through the
web services of an application server?
An ORM Framework could be used, though.
Would be great for our in-house enterprise application.
And another one: is it possible (there might even be a sample somewhere)
to easily create a transparent web service on some "dumb" appserver,
which just routes the requests via JDBC to a database?
Maybe even with authentication of the database passed through
(perhaps as a simple "https://login"-Webservice).
No session pooling wanted, just 1:1 cookie-sessions : db-sessions.
I have found http://sqlrest.sourceforge.net/ , but has anyone
tried such a thing, maybe with Pivot?
Apache Pivot is really great work, I'm considering the platform
as a replacement for Oracle Forms in our enterprise.
Greetings
Thomas
------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Guretzki
Telefon +49 511 7631 334; Fax +49 511 7631 718
T.I.K. GmbH - Datenbankadministration & Softwareentwicklung
Königsworther Platz 6 30167 Hannover Germany
Steuer-Nr. 2520601056
Geschäftsführer: Dr. Rainer Koch, Sitz: Hannover
Registereintrag: HRB 58144, Amtsgericht Hannover
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Greg Brown [mailto:gkbrown@mac.com]
Gesendet: Freitag, 21. August 2009 16:14
An: pivot-dev@incubator.apache.org
Cc: pivot-user@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Preferences Demo
X-ESAFE-STATUS:[dschafar] Mail clean
X-ESAFE-DETAILS:[dschafar]
>> Since preferences APIs are generally built on top of persistence
>> APIs, it might be more valuable to write a persistence demo - I'd
>> especially like to see an example that uses the JNLP APIs to
>> support local storage in untrusted code. That way, readers can
>> apply the example to a wider range of use cases.
>
> Ok, that's why I was thinking of a simple TODO List ... otherwise
> ideas (as you said, saving/loading the current window position, etc
> could be enough) ?
I think it would be more valuable to show a "persistence" example than
a "preferences" example, since you can build preferences on top of
persistence.
> And a last thing, to use Web Start, I have to put also a jnlp file
> (and jnlp files must have the right codebase path inside them, or
> there should be a servlet that handle this ...), but we need to
> publish also this stuff inside the demos, if i remember well you or
> Todd have done an ant task to package a webapp, right ? Or put this
> only on wiki with only an on-line demo (with source code) ?
> Should i use something like this ? Ideas / suggestions ?
You should be able to add a JSP to the demos WAR that generates a JNLP
file with the correct codebase.
Re: Persistence (was: Re: Preferences Demo)
Posted by Sandro Martini <sa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Thomas,
sorry for the delay in the answer ... I'm come more from Java
Enterprise than in core Pivot, but I'll try to give an answer. Tell me
if some things are not clear, or for problems.
> Is there currently a possibility, or could it be made possible,
> to bind Entity Objects (used in a pivot application as storage for the ui)
> via JDBC to Rows in a Database? Without going through the
> web services of an application server?
> An ORM Framework could be used, though.
Here you are speaking of EJB Entity, right ?
I don't think it's the right thing to make JDBC calls directly (in
intranet environments could be right, but via Internet not, for
firewall polices, etc).
If I remember well, EJB could be published in remote (via their Remote
interface, if implemented) via RMI, but probably in this case you'll
have to bind to some vendor-specific class (like for JNDI lookup,
etc).
Otherwise I suggest to you to use other ways to publish your remote
objects, for example you can use Spring Remoting, Hessian, Burlap,
RMI, or one solution that i like very much: cajo (
https://cajo.dev.java.net/ ).
Or expose them as Web Services (for example XFire, or the newer Apache
CXF), or an in-house solution to expose your data in xml, json, or
other formats.
Many time ago I wrote an application that used Java Serialization to
exchange Java (Serializable) Objects (for example a Map containing all
your business data with any record contained in a POJO) between a Java
Client (Applet or Web Start) and a Java Server, via HTTP, and in Pivot
this is done using the BinarySerializer.
And in Pivot now we have other Serializers.
As a sample you can read this:
http://cwiki.apache.org/PIVOT/web-queries.html
on Web Query and related classes (some for Client and some for Server).
> And another one: is it possible (there might even be a sample somewhere)
> to easily create a transparent web service on some "dumb" appserver,
> which just routes the requests via JDBC to a database?
This depends on your server-side architecture, but many modern
frameworks have something like this, but always transforming the data,
and not with straight JDBC (time ago I've seen some products that
implements a sort of DB Proxy, and let your application connect to it
instead of the real DB, but I've never used them, sorry).
In any case, in Pivot something is done by the
org.apache.pivot.web.server.QueryServlet.
For this Todd or Greg can explain better how it work, but we should
have a Tutorial on this.
> Maybe even with authentication of the database passed through
> (perhaps as a simple "https://login"-Webservice).
> No session pooling wanted, just 1:1 cookie-sessions : db-sessions.
This is a complex problem: if you use Basic authentication, ok.
We have in stand-by something for Digest authentication, but at the
moment it's not tested on many environments, and it's not public.
Then, if you use other authentication methods (usually application
server specific) this could become difficult, or require to use some
vendor-specific code and libraries.
> I have found http://sqlrest.sourceforge.net/ , but has anyone
> tried such a thing, maybe with Pivot?
I don't know, it looks interesting, but I've never used it ... maybe
in the future.
Comments ?
Bye,
Sandro
Re: Persistence (was: Re: Preferences Demo)
Posted by Todd Volkert <tv...@gmail.com>.
I realized that Thomas probably intended to only send the message to
pivot-user, so he may not have gotten the reply on pivot-dev...
-T
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Greg Brown <gk...@mac.com> wrote:
> Is there currently a possibility, or could it be made possible,
>> to bind Entity Objects (used in a pivot application as storage for the ui)
>> via JDBC to Rows in a Database? Without going through the
>> web services of an application server?
>> An ORM Framework could be used, though.
>>
>
> I'm not terribly familiar with Java EE terminology, but are the entity
> objects Java Beans? If so, you should already be able to bind to them.
>
> And another one: is it possible (there might even be a sample somewhere)
>> to easily create a transparent web service on some "dumb" appserver,
>> which just routes the requests via JDBC to a database?
>> Maybe even with authentication of the database passed through
>> (perhaps as a simple "https://login"-Webservice).
>> No session pooling wanted, just 1:1 cookie-sessions : db-sessions.
>> I have found http://sqlrest.sourceforge.net/ , but has anyone
>> tried such a thing, maybe with Pivot?
>>
>
> I have toyed with the idea of creating something like this for a couple of
> years. For standalone tables, it's pretty easy to visualize. When you get
> into joined tables, though, it gets tougher. It would be useful, though.
>
>
>
Re: Persistence (was: Re: Preferences Demo)
Posted by Greg Brown <gk...@mac.com>.
> Is there currently a possibility, or could it be made possible,
> to bind Entity Objects (used in a pivot application as storage for
> the ui)
> via JDBC to Rows in a Database? Without going through the
> web services of an application server?
> An ORM Framework could be used, though.
I'm not terribly familiar with Java EE terminology, but are the entity
objects Java Beans? If so, you should already be able to bind to them.
> And another one: is it possible (there might even be a sample
> somewhere)
> to easily create a transparent web service on some "dumb" appserver,
> which just routes the requests via JDBC to a database?
> Maybe even with authentication of the database passed through
> (perhaps as a simple "https://login"-Webservice).
> No session pooling wanted, just 1:1 cookie-sessions : db-sessions.
> I have found http://sqlrest.sourceforge.net/ , but has anyone
> tried such a thing, maybe with Pivot?
I have toyed with the idea of creating something like this for a
couple of years. For standalone tables, it's pretty easy to visualize.
When you get into joined tables, though, it gets tougher. It would be
useful, though.
Re: Persistence (was: Re: Preferences Demo)
Posted by Sandro Martini <sa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Thomas,
sorry for the delay in the answer ... I'm come more from Java
Enterprise than in core Pivot, but I'll try to give an answer. Tell me
if some things are not clear, or for problems.
> Is there currently a possibility, or could it be made possible,
> to bind Entity Objects (used in a pivot application as storage for the ui)
> via JDBC to Rows in a Database? Without going through the
> web services of an application server?
> An ORM Framework could be used, though.
Here you are speaking of EJB Entity, right ?
I don't think it's the right thing to make JDBC calls directly (in
intranet environments could be right, but via Internet not, for
firewall polices, etc).
If I remember well, EJB could be published in remote (via their Remote
interface, if implemented) via RMI, but probably in this case you'll
have to bind to some vendor-specific class (like for JNDI lookup,
etc).
Otherwise I suggest to you to use other ways to publish your remote
objects, for example you can use Spring Remoting, Hessian, Burlap,
RMI, or one solution that i like very much: cajo (
https://cajo.dev.java.net/ ).
Or expose them as Web Services (for example XFire, or the newer Apache
CXF), or an in-house solution to expose your data in xml, json, or
other formats.
Many time ago I wrote an application that used Java Serialization to
exchange Java (Serializable) Objects (for example a Map containing all
your business data with any record contained in a POJO) between a Java
Client (Applet or Web Start) and a Java Server, via HTTP, and in Pivot
this is done using the BinarySerializer.
And in Pivot now we have other Serializers.
As a sample you can read this:
http://cwiki.apache.org/PIVOT/web-queries.html
on Web Query and related classes (some for Client and some for Server).
> And another one: is it possible (there might even be a sample somewhere)
> to easily create a transparent web service on some "dumb" appserver,
> which just routes the requests via JDBC to a database?
This depends on your server-side architecture, but many modern
frameworks have something like this, but always transforming the data,
and not with straight JDBC (time ago I've seen some products that
implements a sort of DB Proxy, and let your application connect to it
instead of the real DB, but I've never used them, sorry).
In any case, in Pivot something is done by the
org.apache.pivot.web.server.QueryServlet.
For this Todd or Greg can explain better how it work, but we should
have a Tutorial on this.
> Maybe even with authentication of the database passed through
> (perhaps as a simple "https://login"-Webservice).
> No session pooling wanted, just 1:1 cookie-sessions : db-sessions.
This is a complex problem: if you use Basic authentication, ok.
We have in stand-by something for Digest authentication, but at the
moment it's not tested on many environments, and it's not public.
Then, if you use other authentication methods (usually application
server specific) this could become difficult, or require to use some
vendor-specific code and libraries.
> I have found http://sqlrest.sourceforge.net/ , but has anyone
> tried such a thing, maybe with Pivot?
I don't know, it looks interesting, but I've never used it ... maybe
in the future.
Comments ?
Bye,
Sandro
Persistence (was: Re: Preferences Demo)
Posted by Thomas Guretzki <Th...@tik.info>.
Hello Pivoteers,
the current discussion about preferences and persistence
just inspired me to pose a question:
Is there currently a possibility, or could it be made possible,
to bind Entity Objects (used in a pivot application as storage for the ui)
via JDBC to Rows in a Database? Without going through the
web services of an application server?
An ORM Framework could be used, though.
Would be great for our in-house enterprise application.
And another one: is it possible (there might even be a sample somewhere)
to easily create a transparent web service on some "dumb" appserver,
which just routes the requests via JDBC to a database?
Maybe even with authentication of the database passed through
(perhaps as a simple "https://login"-Webservice).
No session pooling wanted, just 1:1 cookie-sessions : db-sessions.
I have found http://sqlrest.sourceforge.net/ , but has anyone
tried such a thing, maybe with Pivot?
Apache Pivot is really great work, I'm considering the platform
as a replacement for Oracle Forms in our enterprise.
Greetings
Thomas
------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Guretzki
Telefon +49 511 7631 334; Fax +49 511 7631 718
T.I.K. GmbH - Datenbankadministration & Softwareentwicklung
Königsworther Platz 6 30167 Hannover Germany
Steuer-Nr. 2520601056
Geschäftsführer: Dr. Rainer Koch, Sitz: Hannover
Registereintrag: HRB 58144, Amtsgericht Hannover
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Greg Brown [mailto:gkbrown@mac.com]
Gesendet: Freitag, 21. August 2009 16:14
An: pivot-dev@incubator.apache.org
Cc: pivot-user@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Preferences Demo
X-ESAFE-STATUS:[dschafar] Mail clean
X-ESAFE-DETAILS:[dschafar]
>> Since preferences APIs are generally built on top of persistence
>> APIs, it might be more valuable to write a persistence demo - I'd
>> especially like to see an example that uses the JNLP APIs to
>> support local storage in untrusted code. That way, readers can
>> apply the example to a wider range of use cases.
>
> Ok, that's why I was thinking of a simple TODO List ... otherwise
> ideas (as you said, saving/loading the current window position, etc
> could be enough) ?
I think it would be more valuable to show a "persistence" example than
a "preferences" example, since you can build preferences on top of
persistence.
> And a last thing, to use Web Start, I have to put also a jnlp file
> (and jnlp files must have the right codebase path inside them, or
> there should be a servlet that handle this ...), but we need to
> publish also this stuff inside the demos, if i remember well you or
> Todd have done an ant task to package a webapp, right ? Or put this
> only on wiki with only an on-line demo (with source code) ?
> Should i use something like this ? Ideas / suggestions ?
You should be able to add a JSP to the demos WAR that generates a JNLP
file with the correct codebase.
Re: Preferences Demo
Posted by Sandro Martini <sa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Michael,
welcome to pivot-dev :-) .
Any help / suggestion is welcome.
I'll wait your complete post to answer ... but from what I've just
read, I agree with you, and my intention was to write not-trivial
demos, so users could see and try more complex solutions, right ?
But i understand that at the moment this isn't an our priority.
Bye,
Sandro
RE: Preferences Demo
Posted by Michael Bushe <mi...@bushe.com>.
My first post and I messed it up. :-)
This is an incomplete email that I intended to save, not send.
I'll finish later today.
Michael
-- Sent from my Palm Pre
Michael Bushe wrote:
Demos are wicked important, and how you write them live with you forever.
When users kick Pivot's tires, they will cut and paste large chunks of into
their applications. How they understand and write Pivot will be most
influenced by that work.
For example, this post to an EventBus mailing list
May I suggest a series of simple to complex demos (Yes, I'm volunteering to
help.)
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandro Martini [mailto:sandro.martini@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:49 AM
To: pivot-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Preferences Demo
Mhhh Ok, I have so to think at a simpler demo ... but you know, reuse
(of what I've already written) is better for me :-) .
Bye
Re: Preferences Demo
Posted by Greg Brown <gk...@mac.com>.
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/PIVOT/stock-tracker-demo.html
>
> Right - that is a good one. :-) I guess I was thinking of something
> with
> charts, graphs, & local persistence (to Sandro's suggestion).
We won't be able to include charts unless we host this demo elsewhere,
since JFreeChart doesn't have a compatible license. However, we could
potentially add persistence to store the user's stock selections.
Re: Preferences Demo
Posted by Michael Bushe <mi...@bushe.com>.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Greg Brown <gk...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> So may I suggest a series of simple to complex demos that are reviewed for
>> their correctness - "what would a good Pivot developer do?"
>>
>
> If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that we not only build
> demos that showcase Pivot's features, but also good development practice,
> correct?
>
Yes - demo good practice.
> http://cwiki.apache.org/PIVOT/stock-tracker-demo.html
>
Right - that is a good one. :-) I guess I was thinking of something with
charts, graphs, & local persistence (to Sandro's suggestion).
Michael
Re: Preferences Demo
Posted by Greg Brown <gk...@mac.com>.
>> What's the best place to put something like that - on a new Dev or
>> Road Map
>> page on the wiki?
> Up to now we used mail on this list, but if someone likes the the
> wiki, why not (if not for technical problems, or if not to avoid
> publishing working concepts, and wait the final version of things,
> right Greg / Todd ?) ?
I would start with the mailing list and then move to the wiki, if
necessary.
Re: Preferences Demo
Posted by Sandro Martini <sa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Michael,
> Agreed on the coordination point.
Great, also to not waste the time of anyone (that's very little) ...
> I'll try to put together something in words about what we are agreeing to do
> for demo(s), so we can bash on the ideas before/while we move forward.
Great.
> What's the best place to put something like that - on a new Dev or Road Map
> page on the wiki?
Up to now we used mail on this list, but if someone likes the the
wiki, why not (if not for technical problems, or if not to avoid
publishing working concepts, and wait the final version of things,
right Greg / Todd ?) ?
Sandro
Re: Preferences Demo
Posted by Michael Bushe <mi...@bushe.com>.
Agreed on the coordination point.
I'll try to put together something in words about what we are agreeing to do
for demo(s), so we can bash on the ideas before/while we move forward.
What's the best place to put something like that - on a new Dev or Road Map
page on the wiki?
Michael
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Sandro Martini <sa...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hi to all,
>
> >> - System visualization/management app - since it lends itself to
> richness.
> >> I'm thinking there has to be some real data out there that would look
> >> interesting - whois breakdowns, whatever.
> >
> > Also a good idea. There are lots of web service APIs out there that might
> be
> > a good source of data for an app such as this.
>
> I agree, this is a great field for Pivot applications ... and why not
> also interaction with JMX ?
>
>
> > However, I still think some sort of "persistence demo", along the lines
> of
> > what Sandro is suggesting, would be valuable. Part of the "richness" in
> RIA
> > (at least, as it pertains to Pivot) is the Java runtime's ability to
> > interact with the native OS. This is something that differentiates RIAs
> from
> > AJAX apps and is worth drawing developer attention to.
> Thanks ... and another class of things we could try to show for
> example could be a real interaction with the OS, maybe using some
> libraries to gain direct access to some features, like JNA ...
>
>
> In any case, i think that in this Project, we should have more
> coordination of efforts, in Demos and in other parts of the project.
> Then put all in a clear RoadMap.
> For example: we (really, no marketing or promotions here) think that
> pivot is great for these application fields ..., so we could show
> users the following tutorial/demos, and in the future ...
>
> But don't get me wrong, this is a little complaint, (positive) ...
>
> Tell me what do you think.
>
>
> Bye,
> Sandro
>
Re: Preferences Demo
Posted by Sandro Martini <sa...@gmail.com>.
Hi to all,
>> - System visualization/management app - since it lends itself to richness.
>> I'm thinking there has to be some real data out there that would look
>> interesting - whois breakdowns, whatever.
>
> Also a good idea. There are lots of web service APIs out there that might be
> a good source of data for an app such as this.
I agree, this is a great field for Pivot applications ... and why not
also interaction with JMX ?
> However, I still think some sort of "persistence demo", along the lines of
> what Sandro is suggesting, would be valuable. Part of the "richness" in RIA
> (at least, as it pertains to Pivot) is the Java runtime's ability to
> interact with the native OS. This is something that differentiates RIAs from
> AJAX apps and is worth drawing developer attention to.
Thanks ... and another class of things we could try to show for
example could be a real interaction with the OS, maybe using some
libraries to gain direct access to some features, like JNA ...
In any case, i think that in this Project, we should have more
coordination of efforts, in Demos and in other parts of the project.
Then put all in a clear RoadMap.
For example: we (really, no marketing or promotions here) think that
pivot is great for these application fields ..., so we could show
users the following tutorial/demos, and in the future ...
But don't get me wrong, this is a little complaint, (positive) ...
Tell me what do you think.
Bye,
Sandro
Re: Preferences Demo
Posted by Greg Brown <gk...@mac.com>.
Hi Michael,
Welcome to the list.
> So may I suggest a series of simple to complex demos that are
> reviewed for
> their correctness - "what would a good Pivot developer do?"
If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that we not only
build demos that showcase Pivot's features, but also good development
practice, correct?
> - A Pivot bug tracker - a domain everyone understands.
This would be a good example. I've often thought about attempting to
create a Pivot-based front end to JIRA.
> - A stock tracker - most people get it, and it's suitable for
> liveliness
We already have this one. :-)
http://cwiki.apache.org/PIVOT/stock-tracker-demo.html
> - System visualization/management app - since it lends itself to
> richness.
> I'm thinking there has to be some real data out there that would look
> interesting - whois breakdowns, whatever.
Also a good idea. There are lots of web service APIs out there that
might be a good source of data for an app such as this.
However, I still think some sort of "persistence demo", along the
lines of what Sandro is suggesting, would be valuable. Part of the
"richness" in RIA (at least, as it pertains to Pivot) is the Java
runtime's ability to interact with the native OS. This is something
that differentiates RIAs from AJAX apps and is worth drawing developer
attention to.
Greg
RE: Preferences Demo
Posted by Michael Bushe <mi...@bushe.com>.
OK, let me try this post again...
How demos are written is wicked important because:
- Demos lay down the unwritten rules about how to structure apps and
accomplish tasks.
- They will be cut and pasted and form the basis of real apps.
- They will be cut and pasted and form the basis of bug reports, email
posts, articles, etc. (they come back to haunt you)
- Newbies, not only to Pivot, but to Java, will learn about both Pivot and
Java from examples and demos.
For example, in the EventBus project (http://eventbus.dev.java.net), someone
was very happy about using the EventBus publish/subscribe API in a desktop
music player and posted some examples.
One example was something like this class that was responsible for fetching
the files in a directory:
public MusicFileFetcher(...) {
public void getFiles(File dir[]) {
....
EventBus.publish(new StatusBarEvent(...));
}
}
The strange thing is that main purpose of the EventBus is to decouple
objects so that they don't know about each other, yet, here was a
MusicFileFetcher that knew about the StatusBar (or at least its events).
Of course, the first example on the main page of the EventBus project has a
StatusBarEvent! I led this user down a dark road with an example that was
too simple...
I used a StatusBarEvent because I was intending to be real simple, real
quick and real clear, but it turns out that people often don't see when code
"cuts to the chase."
So may I suggest a series of simple to complex demos that are reviewed for
their correctness - "what would a good Pivot developer do?"
Yes, I'm volunteering to help because Greg asked me to look into what
pub/sub in Pivot would look like and having good demos would be most helpful
to working it out. The demos I'm thinking of are of the "Pet Store" variety
- real full blown apps. However, I tend to think that doing something real
would be more pedantic. A full demo would exercise all the concerns of a UI
- preferences, persistence, live updates, menus, status bars, skins,
windowing, forms, etc., etc. I strongly believe that Swing would still be a
major player if the Swing team had been tasked with creating apps beyond
bare bones Paint and smiley faces.
Real apps that I think might be useful:
- A Pivot bug tracker - a domain everyone understands.
- A stock tracker - most people get it, and it's suitable for liveliness
- System visualization/management app - since it lends itself to richness.
I'm thinking there has to be some real data out there that would look
interesting - whois breakdowns, whatever.
Thoughts?
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Bushe [mailto:michael@bushe.com]
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:03 AM
To: pivot-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Preferences Demo
Demos are wicked important, and how you write them live with you forever.
When users kick Pivot's tires, they will cut and paste large chunks of into
their applications. How they understand and write Pivot will be most
influenced by that work.
For example, this post to an EventBus mailing list
May I suggest a series of simple to complex demos (Yes, I'm volunteering to
help.)
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandro Martini [mailto:sandro.martini@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:49 AM
To: pivot-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Preferences Demo
Mhhh Ok, I have so to think at a simpler demo ... but you know, reuse
(of what I've already written) is better for me :-) .
Bye
RE: Preferences Demo
Posted by Michael Bushe <mi...@bushe.com>.
Demos are wicked important, and how you write them live with you forever.
When users kick Pivot's tires, they will cut and paste large chunks of into
their applications. How they understand and write Pivot will be most
influenced by that work.
For example, this post to an EventBus mailing list
May I suggest a series of simple to complex demos (Yes, I'm volunteering to
help.)
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandro Martini [mailto:sandro.martini@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:49 AM
To: pivot-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Preferences Demo
Mhhh Ok, I have so to think at a simpler demo ... but you know, reuse
(of what I've already written) is better for me :-) .
Bye
Re: Preferences Demo
Posted by Sandro Martini <sa...@gmail.com>.
Mhhh Ok, I have so to think at a simpler demo ... but you know, reuse
(of what I've already written) is better for me :-) .
Bye
Re: Preferences Demo
Posted by Greg Brown <gk...@mac.com>.
> Ok, but Preferences was a Pivot version of Java Preferences (a Map of
> <String, String>), with a default format of json, and standard
> placement in the storage (user home in the case of File System, or Web
> Start storage for Web Start deploy).
Right, but we eliminated that class because it didn't seem like it
would offer enough value. Again, if you create a demo that shows how
to use JNLP persistence in a Pivot app, developers can use that
information to create their own preferences classes.
> I don't like too much things like "SimplePersistence" ...
> Do you have some idea instead ?
It's your demo, so it's really up to you. To me, that sounds like you
are trying to create a general-purpose, re-usable class. I'm not sure
that's necessary, because I think the JNLP APIs already provide that
for us.
If I were building it, I would start by creating an app that simply
demonstrates how a basic Pivot app can take advantage of JNLP
persistence. If some re-usable code happens to come out of it, that
would be great.
Re: Preferences Demo
Posted by Sandro Martini <sa...@gmail.com>.
> I think it would be more valuable to show a "persistence" example than a
> "preferences" example, since you can build preferences on top of
> persistence.
Ok, but Preferences was a Pivot version of Java Preferences (a Map of
<String, String>), with a default format of json, and standard
placement in the storage (user home in the case of File System, or Web
Start storage for Web Start deploy).
Do you agree on this vision, or i have to modify some concept (or
maybe only the name) ?
I don't like too much things like "SimplePersistence" ...
Do you have some idea instead ?
> You should be able to add a JSP to the demos WAR that generates a JNLP file
> with the correct codebase.
Ok, but so what do you thing on put all this stuff into the same
webapp generated by the ant task (if there is one for demos, or if
not, create one like pivot-demos.war) ?
Bye