RE: Stepping Back to Move Foward (WAS: RE: [VOTE] Stephen McConne ll as a committer)

["Farr, Aaron" <Aa...@am.sony.com>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen McConnell [mailto:mcconnell@apache.org]
>
> So the first question is - yes or no - do we agree on that point 1-3 are
> points that justify our attention?  If there is general consensus that
> these points should be addressed then deal with them individually.

You don't need a vote to determine if you'll address these issues.  They've
already been pointed out by the Board and the PMC to you.  Do you honestly
believe they might not be worthy of your attention?  If you won't address
them, then others will and you will have to deal with the consequences.

J. Aaron Farr
  SONY ELECTRONICS
  STP SYSTEMS
  (724) 696-7653

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RE: Stepping Back to Move Foward (WAS: RE: [VOTE] Stephen McConnell as a committer)

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

> the three questions I think we should be looking in the
> short term include:

>  1. concerns related to the breakup of Avalon and how
>     this would impact users here at apache and outside

This is why I have been pushing for a single steward, and the Excalibur
project has finally agreed to take on that role.

>  2. concerns related to the historical patterns of conflict-
>     centered processes and in particular - the potential for
>     that process model to be carried over within future endeavors

Excalibur seems free from conflict to date, as are most ASF projects.

As for a potential Metro incubation (which appears to be the only option
available within the ASF infrastructure), it would be "just" the Merlin
community.  You'd be building anew somewhat, but I'm not aware of any
internal conflicts, nor any reason for anyone to come trying to "make
trouble" for the project.  Leo Sutic has already outlined a proposal for the
Frameworks, and Niclas appears to believe that it is workable.

>  3. concerns that the separation is driven by an inability
>     of people to get along together

Whatever inabilities to get along together existed should not have any
effect on the Merlin incubation unless you spawn them anew in that project.
No one is going to come around looking to catalyze failure.  And Incubation
would give the Merlin community an opportunity to develop the right habits.

You are an extremely talented developer with a strong and charismatic
personality.  You have the opportunity to be a leader, step up and take
responsibility, and show how to effect real and sincere change in one's
dealings with peers.

I have said it privately, but I'll say in public that if someone is looking
for a role model, they could do far worse than to look at Alex Karasulu.
Alex brought a project to the ASF that he feels passionate about.  Easily as
passionate as you do about Merlin.  Although he's made mistakes along the
way in terms of community building, he's tried to learn from them.  Yes, he
has also exhibited a temper, gone overboard, acted out.  But he has taken
responsibility for his actions, adjusted his behavior *and maintained* those
changes, and actively sought solutions to build the community and empower
others to do more and more of the heavy lifting.

	--- Noel



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RE: Stepping Back to Move Foward (WAS: RE: [VOTE] Stephen McConnell as a committer)

[Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Farr, Aaron [mailto:Aaron.Farr@am.sony.com]
> Sent: 29 September 2004 22:13
> To: 'Avalon Developers List'
> Subject: RE: Stepping Back to Move Foward (WAS: RE: [VOTE] Stephen
> McConnell as a committer)
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stephen McConnell [mailto:mcconnell@apache.org]
> >
> > So the first question is - yes or no - do we agree on that point 1-3
are
> > points that justify our attention?  If there is general consensus
that
> > these points should be addressed then deal with them individually.
> 
> You don't need a vote to determine if you'll address these issues.
> They've
> already been pointed out by the Board and the PMC to you.  Do you
honestly
> believe they might not be worthy of your attention?  If you won't
address
> them, then others will and you will have to deal with the
consequences.

Aaron.

Please go back and re-read my message.  It summarizes from my point of
view the three concerns that are present and the three concerns that
need to be addressed.  I am not calling for a vote - I simply want to
establish if my assumptions of the key subjects is on the mark or if we
should be focusing elsewhere.

Just to repeat - the three questions I think we should be looking in the
short term include:

  1. concerns related to the breakup of Avalon and how this would impact
     users here at apache and outside

  2. concerns related to the historical patterns of conflict-centered 
     processes and in particular - the potential for that process model
     to be carried over within future endeavors

  3. concerns that the separation is driven by an inability of people
     to get along together

Put another way - does anyone think that these questions should not be
addressed?

Stephen.


> 
> J. Aaron Farr
>   SONY ELECTRONICS
>   STP SYSTEMS
>   (724) 696-7653
> 
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
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