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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org> on 2002/08/01 01:29:47 UTC
RE: [VOTE] Promotion of 'jakarta-site' to project status and additionof Rob Oxspring as committer to same
> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > It's entirely reasonable that our website and related materials be a
> > project. It requires the same care, vision and participation
> as any other
> > project.
I also agree with this, I think that making non-coding contributors
commiters to commons is more of an indefensable fudge than elevating the
web-site to project status.
d.
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Re: [VOTE] Promotion of 'jakarta-site' to project status and additionof
Rob Oxspring as committer to same
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
costinm@covalent.net wrote:
...
> My point was that jakarta-site was a shared space where anyone who asked
> was added. I liked that, and that was the main reason I voted -1 on
> changing it to 'send patches, get nominated, have a vote'.
>
> The proposal to change this into a real project doesn't include any
> mention about the initial set of commiters - I assume from your answer
> that anyone that happens to be on the list will remain there, and
> they'll add more commiters.
>
> Most people on the list just made ocasional changes ( me for
> example ), I don't consider myself a 'commiter' on jakarta-site
> based on that.
>
> There is also the question of 'rules' - will jakarta-site commiters
> decide ( majority vote ? ) on 'releases' or on the technology used to
> generate the site ? How will 'commit-then-review' work - since
> the information will be on the first page and very hard
> to take it back ? Will we have a delay between commits to cvs and
> the site generation so the review can happen ?
>
> You know, the kind of stuff one would expect to see in a top-level
> project proposal, besides 'let's just create a new project'
Over at xml.apache we have Forrest, that will be creating the new
xml-apache site.
It's more than evident that using a common repository for the website
hasen't worked, and Forrest will be publishing the site automatically
based on the docs in the projects' CVS.
It's quite some time that we have been using Forrest to publish a test
site automatically from CVS every hour, and now we are testing the new
facility for doing it for registered projects ala Gump, with which full
integration is sought.
We support skinning, PDF generation and a revised Document DTD. Avalon,
for example, is starting to use a Forrest-like system with a tigris-like
skin, and will probably migrate to full Forrest soon.
The latest Forrest site generated automatically every 2 hours is at
http://www.outerthought.net/forrest/ .
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: [VOTE] Promotion of 'jakarta-site' to project status and
additionof Rob Oxspring as committer to same
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
I agree here. Top level projects need some kind of charter. Jakarta-site
deserves one as well.
It already has one, except it is not clearly written down and has never
been voted upon. This should be written down so we know all votes are
for exactly the same proposal.
Not wanting to mess with PMC business too much, just a little concerned
I'll have to start parsing yet another mailing list for [VOTE] tags I'm
obliged to concern myself with as a committer....
cheers,
Leo Simons
> My point was that jakarta-site was a shared space where anyone who asked
> was added. I liked that, and that was the main reason I voted -1 on
> changing it to 'send patches, get nominated, have a vote'.
>
> The proposal to change this into a real project doesn't include any
> mention about the initial set of commiters - I assume from your answer
> that anyone that happens to be on the list will remain there, and
> they'll add more commiters.
>
> Most people on the list just made ocasional changes ( me for
> example ), I don't consider myself a 'commiter' on jakarta-site
> based on that.
>
> There is also the question of 'rules' - will jakarta-site commiters
> decide ( majority vote ? ) on 'releases' or on the technology used to
> generate the site ? How will 'commit-then-review' work - since
> the information will be on the first page and very hard
> to take it back ? Will we have a delay between commits to cvs and
> the site generation so the review can happen ?
>
> You know, the kind of stuff one would expect to see in a top-level
> project proposal, besides 'let's just create a new project'
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Re: [VOTE] Promotion of 'jakarta-site' to project status and additionof
Rob Oxspring as committer to same
Posted by co...@covalent.net.
On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Sam Ruby wrote:
> costinm@covalent.net wrote:
> >
> > My -1 was conditional on the existence of jakarta-site as a project - if
> > it becomes a project, then only it's commiters vote will cound and so
> > far we don't know any commiter. So the vote on something that doesn't
> > exist where we don't know who can vote doesn't make sense.
>
> Current committers to jakarta-site: duncan jon stefano pier costin rubys
> ...
My point was that jakarta-site was a shared space where anyone who asked
was added. I liked that, and that was the main reason I voted -1 on
changing it to 'send patches, get nominated, have a vote'.
The proposal to change this into a real project doesn't include any
mention about the initial set of commiters - I assume from your answer
that anyone that happens to be on the list will remain there, and
they'll add more commiters.
Most people on the list just made ocasional changes ( me for
example ), I don't consider myself a 'commiter' on jakarta-site
based on that.
There is also the question of 'rules' - will jakarta-site commiters
decide ( majority vote ? ) on 'releases' or on the technology used to
generate the site ? How will 'commit-then-review' work - since
the information will be on the first page and very hard
to take it back ? Will we have a delay between commits to cvs and
the site generation so the review can happen ?
You know, the kind of stuff one would expect to see in a top-level
project proposal, besides 'let's just create a new project'
Costin
> akv jhunter preston shemnon shachor arnout bergsten craigmcc ed alex
> bodewig remm jvanzyl gstein nacho hgomez ceki donaldp husted keith
> danmil larryi marcsaeg fede bburns mstover1 chrise mpoeschl geirm sgala
> charlesb criley sanders glenn bloritsch dfs dlr vmassol bip paulsp
> cutting bojan jstrachan martinc andya dion acoliver paulo morgand
> acoliver hammant carlson umagesh danny rdonkin leosimons
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Promotion of 'jakarta-site' to project status and additionof
Rob Oxspring as committer to same
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
costinm@covalent.net wrote:
>
> My -1 was conditional on the existence of jakarta-site as a project - if
> it becomes a project, then only it's commiters vote will cound and so
> far we don't know any commiter. So the vote on something that doesn't
> exist where we don't know who can vote doesn't make sense.
Current committers to jakarta-site: duncan jon stefano pier costin rubys
akv jhunter preston shemnon shachor arnout bergsten craigmcc ed alex
bodewig remm jvanzyl gstein nacho hgomez ceki donaldp husted keith
danmil larryi marcsaeg fede bburns mstover1 chrise mpoeschl geirm sgala
charlesb criley sanders glenn bloritsch dfs dlr vmassol bip paulsp
cutting bojan jstrachan martinc andya dion acoliver paulo morgand
acoliver hammant carlson umagesh danny rdonkin leosimons
- Sam Ruby
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Re: [VOTE] Promotion of 'jakarta-site' to project status and additionof Rob Oxspring as committer to same
Posted by Daniel Rall <dl...@finemaltcoding.com>.
"Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com> writes:
> We already have quite a few committers to jakarta-site2, and I think they
> should be grandfathered in.
+1
--
Daniel Rall <dl...@finemaltcoding.com>
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Re: jakarta-site2 commiters (was RE: [VOTE] Promotion of 'jakarta-site'
to project status andadditionof Rob Oxspring as committer to same)
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Danny Angus wrote:
>>Seems like we have quite a few committers :
>>
>>
>
>two of who appear to both be andy oliver,
>One of him is enough to cope with..
>;-)
>
You're just jealous.
>. ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>>avail|duncan,jon,stefano,costin,rubys,akv,jhunter,preston,shemnon,
>>shachor,ar
>>nout,bergsten,craigmcc,ed,alex,bodewig,remm,jvanzyl,gstein,nacho,h
>>gomez,ceki
>>,donaldp,husted,keith,danmil,larryi,marcsaeg,fede,bburns,mstover1,
>>chrise,mpo
>>eschl,geirm,sgala,charlesb,criley,sanders,glenn,bloritsch,dfs,dlr,
>>vmassol,bi
>>p,paulsp,cutting,bojan,jstrachan,martinc,andya,dion,acoliver,paulo
>>,morgand,a
>>coliver,hammant,carlson,umagesh,danny,rdonkin,leosimons|jakarta-si
>>te,jakarta
>>-site2,jakarta-site-old
>>
>>
>
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jakarta-site2 commiters (was RE: [VOTE] Promotion of 'jakarta-site' to project status andadditionof Rob Oxspring as committer to same)
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> Seems like we have quite a few committers :
two of who appear to both be andy oliver,
One of him is enough to cope with..
;-)
> avail|duncan,jon,stefano,costin,rubys,akv,jhunter,preston,shemnon,
> shachor,ar
> nout,bergsten,craigmcc,ed,alex,bodewig,remm,jvanzyl,gstein,nacho,h
> gomez,ceki
> ,donaldp,husted,keith,danmil,larryi,marcsaeg,fede,bburns,mstover1,
> chrise,mpo
> eschl,geirm,sgala,charlesb,criley,sanders,glenn,bloritsch,dfs,dlr,
> vmassol,bi
> p,paulsp,cutting,bojan,jstrachan,martinc,andya,dion,acoliver,paulo
> ,morgand,a
> coliver,hammant,carlson,umagesh,danny,rdonkin,leosimons|jakarta-si
> te,jakarta
> -site2,jakarta-site-old
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Re: [VOTE] Promotion of 'jakarta-site' to project status and
additionof Rob Oxspring as committer to same
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com>.
On 8/2/02 12:47 PM, "costinm@covalent.net" <co...@covalent.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Rob Oxspring wrote:
>
>> as I can see. So how does this get resolved? - does the PMC vote overrule
>> Costin? - do we need to wait for more pmc votes? (Can't remember who's in
>> the PMC and therefore whether 3/4 is fulfilled).
>
> There is no 'overrule' or 'veto' on a majority vote. For jakarta-site
> project I think we have to wait - I think there are still 2 vote2 missing
> and it can affect the result.
>
> I hope that we'll at least have 2 more commiters proposed in jakarta-site
> - so they can add more and decide the rules/goals of the project. Until
> now it was an open repository where any commiter could just ask and get
> access ( or was it everyone has access by default ? ). So people who
> want to make last-minute fixes - hurry up.
>
We already have quite a few committers to jakarta-site2, and I think they
should be grandfathered in.
>
>> PMC VOTE : Proposal - to declare jakarta-site to be a Jakarta project
>> +1 Geir Magnusson Jr, Stefan Bodewig, Sam Ruby, Andrew Oliver, Ceki Gülcü?,
>> Martin Cooper?, Craig McClanahan, Scott Sanders
>> -1 Costin
>
> Conor and Diane haven't voted, so far is a 4-1 vote so after the 'timeout'
> it'll pass.
>
>> ALL WITH JAKARTA-SITE PRIVS : Proposal - add Rob as a member of the
>> jakarta-site project
>> +1 Geir Magnusson Jr, Stefan Bodewig, Sam Ruby, Andrew Oliver, Daniel Rall,
>> Ceki Gülcü, Martin Cooper?, Craig McClanahan, Glenn Nielsen, Scott Sanders,
>> Danny Angus
>> -1 Costin
>
> My -1 was conditional on the existence of jakarta-site as a project - if
> it becomes a project, then only it's commiters vote will cound and so
> far we don't know any commiter. So the vote on something that doesn't
> exist where we don't know who can vote doesn't make sense.
Seems like we have quite a few committers :
avail|duncan,jon,stefano,costin,rubys,akv,jhunter,preston,shemnon,shachor,ar
nout,bergsten,craigmcc,ed,alex,bodewig,remm,jvanzyl,gstein,nacho,hgomez,ceki
,donaldp,husted,keith,danmil,larryi,marcsaeg,fede,bburns,mstover1,chrise,mpo
eschl,geirm,sgala,charlesb,criley,sanders,glenn,bloritsch,dfs,dlr,vmassol,bi
p,paulsp,cutting,bojan,jstrachan,martinc,andya,dion,acoliver,paulo,morgand,a
coliver,hammant,carlson,umagesh,danny,rdonkin,leosimons|jakarta-site,jakarta
-site2,jakarta-site-old
--
Geir Magnusson Jr.
Research & Development, Adeptra Inc.
geirm@adeptra.com
+1-203-247-1713
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Re: [VOTE] Promotion of 'jakarta-site' to project status and additionof
Rob Oxspring as committer to same
Posted by co...@covalent.net.
On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Rob Oxspring wrote:
> as I can see. So how does this get resolved? - does the PMC vote overrule
> Costin? - do we need to wait for more pmc votes? (Can't remember who's in
> the PMC and therefore whether 3/4 is fulfilled).
There is no 'overrule' or 'veto' on a majority vote. For jakarta-site
project I think we have to wait - I think there are still 2 vote2 missing
and it can affect the result.
I hope that we'll at least have 2 more commiters proposed in jakarta-site
- so they can add more and decide the rules/goals of the project. Until
now it was an open repository where any commiter could just ask and get
access ( or was it everyone has access by default ? ). So people who
want to make last-minute fixes - hurry up.
> PMC VOTE : Proposal - to declare jakarta-site to be a Jakarta project
> +1 Geir Magnusson Jr, Stefan Bodewig, Sam Ruby, Andrew Oliver, Ceki Gülcü?,
> Martin Cooper?, Craig McClanahan, Scott Sanders
> -1 Costin
Conor and Diane haven't voted, so far is a 4-1 vote so after the 'timeout'
it'll pass.
> ALL WITH JAKARTA-SITE PRIVS : Proposal - add Rob as a member of the
> jakarta-site project
> +1 Geir Magnusson Jr, Stefan Bodewig, Sam Ruby, Andrew Oliver, Daniel Rall,
> Ceki Gülcü, Martin Cooper?, Craig McClanahan, Glenn Nielsen, Scott Sanders,
> Danny Angus
> -1 Costin
My -1 was conditional on the existence of jakarta-site as a project - if
it becomes a project, then only it's commiters vote will cound and so
far we don't know any commiter. So the vote on something that doesn't
exist where we don't know who can vote doesn't make sense.
Costin
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Re: Difference between Jakarta-Site / Jakarta-Site2
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>on 8/2/02 7:36 AM, "Berin Loritsch" <bl...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
>>>
>>>use jakarta-site2.
>>>
>>>
>>I see. Then I have some subprojects that use info from "*site"
>>by default that need to be changed.
>>
>>
>
>Actually, use jakarta-site since that is where we should head back to...they
>are just symlinked internally...
>
>
OOps, sorry Berin, I was not up to date. I'll update the appropriate
web pages to this
effect once I've time.
-Andy
>-jon
>
>
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RE: Difference between Jakarta-Site / Jakarta-Site2
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Thanks.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:jon@latchkey.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 3:01 PM
> To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Difference between Jakarta-Site / Jakarta-Site2
>
>
> on 8/2/02 7:36 AM, "Berin Loritsch" <bl...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> >> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
> >>
> >> use jakarta-site2.
> >
> >
> > I see. Then I have some subprojects that use info from "*site" by
> > default that need to be changed.
>
> Actually, use jakarta-site since that is where we should head
> back to...they are just symlinked internally...
>
> -jon
>
>
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Re: Difference between Jakarta-Site / Jakarta-Site2
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 8/2/02 7:36 AM, "Berin Loritsch" <bl...@apache.org> wrote:
>> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
>>
>> use jakarta-site2.
>
>
> I see. Then I have some subprojects that use info from "*site"
> by default that need to be changed.
Actually, use jakarta-site since that is where we should head back to...they
are just symlinked internally...
-jon
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RE: Difference between Jakarta-Site / Jakarta-Site2
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
>
> use jakarta-site2.
I see. Then I have some subprojects that use info from "*site"
by default that need to be changed.
>
> Berin Loritsch wrote:
>
> >What exactly is the difference between the jakarta-site and
> >jakarta-site2 CVS repositories? Are they somehow linked
> internally?
> >How do we know which one to use and commit changes to?
> >
> >
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Re: Difference between Jakarta-Site / Jakarta-Site2
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
use jakarta-site2.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
>What exactly is the difference between the jakarta-site and
>jakarta-site2 CVS repositories? Are they somehow linked
>internally? How do we know which one to use and commit
>changes to?
>
>
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Difference between Jakarta-Site / Jakarta-Site2
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
What exactly is the difference between the jakarta-site and
jakarta-site2 CVS repositories? Are they somehow linked
internally? How do we know which one to use and commit
changes to?
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Re: [VOTE] Promotion of 'jakarta-site' to project status and additionof Rob Oxspring as committer to same
Posted by Rob Oxspring <ro...@imapmail.org>.
Firstly thanks for the vote of confidence from everyone!
I've been trying to keep quiet through this lot partly so as not be pushy
and partly because I'm pretty busy at the minute but things look to have
fizzled out a bit... So what's the status / next move? I think I have the
tally about right for the various votes below (sorry if any were missed -
some +1s changed the statement a bit and I wasn't sure whether to include
them) and it looks to me that I'm probably in but with dispute over which of
the following describe me:
- Jakarta Site subproject member
- Jakarta member with jakarta-site access
An interesting situation where the organisational differences seem to have
little or no affect on the actual rights & responsibilities involved as far
as I can see. So how does this get resolved? - does the PMC vote overrule
Costin? - do we need to wait for more pmc votes? (Can't remember who's in
the PMC and therefore whether 3/4 is fulfilled).
It would be nice if I could get things set up and gain access before posting
draft / final copies of the newsletter next week sometime but I can continue
with the pestering "can someone commit this" mails for now if the situation
is deadlocked.
Anyway, thanks again,
Rob
I want Rob to be a voting member of the Jakarta community
+1 Pier Fumagalli, Daniel Rall, Conor MacNeill, Peter Donald, Scott Sanders,
Mark Womack, Stefan Bodewig, Dirk Verbeeck, Leo Simons, Sam Ruby, Costin,
Craig McClanahan, Danny Angus, Rainer Klute
I vote to make Rob a committer of "jakarta-site" and related CVS
repositories.
+1 Pier Fumagalli ,Daniel Rall, Conor MacNeill, Peter Donald, Scott Sanders,
Mark Womack, Stefan Bodewig, Dirk Verbeeck, Leo Simons, Sam Ruby, Costin,
Craig McClanahan, Danny Angus,Rainer Klute, Andrew Oliver
I want the institution of a new figure of "non committer voting member"
+1 Pier Fumagalli,Peter Donald, Costin
0 Daniel Rall, Leo Simons, Sam Ruby
-1 Conor MacNeill, Scott Sanders, Mark Womack, Dirk Verbeeck, Danny Angus,
Rainer Klute
PMC VOTE : Proposal - to declare jakarta-site to be a Jakarta project
+1 Geir Magnusson Jr, Stefan Bodewig, Sam Ruby, Andrew Oliver, Ceki Gülcü?,
Martin Cooper?, Craig McClanahan, Scott Sanders
-1 Costin
ALL WITH JAKARTA-SITE PRIVS : Proposal - add Rob as a member of the
jakarta-site project
+1 Geir Magnusson Jr, Stefan Bodewig, Sam Ruby, Andrew Oliver, Daniel Rall,
Ceki Gülcü, Martin Cooper?, Craig McClanahan, Glenn Nielsen, Scott Sanders,
Danny Angus
-1 Costin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Angus" <da...@apache.org>
To: "Jakarta General List" <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:29 AM
Subject: RE: [VOTE] Promotion of 'jakarta-site' to project status and
additionof Rob Oxspring as committer to same
>
> > Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> > > It's entirely reasonable that our website and related materials be a
> > > project. It requires the same care, vision and participation
> > as any other
> > > project.
>
> I also agree with this, I think that making non-coding contributors
> commiters to commons is more of an indefensable fudge than elevating the
> web-site to project status.
>
> d.
>
>
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