I'm afraid I might have to report this list as a spam source

[ga...@netrox.net]

You see, it does not allow me to unsubscribe.

Some goofball running the SA list (or a server front-end for the list)
decided to 100% block on incoming email to the list with the SORBS dynamic
IP list (which is high false positives).

Now, the problem is, and what makes this list now a spam source, is that I
have no way to unsubscribe my email account that was allowed to sign up to
the list months ago, but is now not worthy to post with.

I am using a standard fixed IP address business class DSL (paid extra for
it), as more and more small companies are doing these days. I follow all
the rules, and I am not black listed for spamming anyone.

Now it would seem intuitive to me that an SA list would have more trust in
the SA program to tag or block spammers that to rely on a high false
positive dynamic IP list for 100% blocking, but I guess maybe I expect too
much from SA list these days? Maybe I got lucky setting my SA up to block
nearly 100% of spam but the list owners (or someone) can't figure out how
to use it.

So, here is my dilemma. I can't unsubscribe from the other account (this
list has it blocked as I described), and there is no alternate method
presented in the emails from the list (such as a weblink to opt-out).

So, I feel in all good conscience I must now report this list as a ‘spam
source’.

If you sign up to a list that won't let you unsubscribe, isn't that one of
the key indicators of spam? I know that will get you a block at most all
major ISP systems these days real quick, which would probably be hard to
get off of.

What do others think?

SA list spam source now?

Thanks...

Re: I'm afraid I might have to report this list as a spam source

[Rick Macdougall <ri...@ummm-beer.com>]

Theo Van Dinter wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 06:59:37PM -0500, gallen2@netrox.net wrote:
>> If you sign up to a list that won't let you unsubscribe, isn't that one of
>> the key indicators of spam? I know that will get you a block at most all
>> major ISP systems these days real quick, which would probably be hard to
>> get off of.
> 
> Typically one would make a reasonable effort to unsubscribe, not try once and
> complain.  Obviously your address makes it to the list, so you could have sent
> mail to the owner alias and asked to be unsubscribed.
> 
> Anyway, I've removed your address from the list.
> 

Ahhh yes, but which address did you remove ?  The one he can post from 
or the one he can't post from ?

heheheh,

Rick

Re: I'm afraid I might have to report this list as a spam source

[Theo Van Dinter <fe...@apache.org>]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 06:59:37PM -0500, gallen2@netrox.net wrote:
> If you sign up to a list that won't let you unsubscribe, isn't that one of
> the key indicators of spam? I know that will get you a block at most all
> major ISP systems these days real quick, which would probably be hard to
> get off of.

Typically one would make a reasonable effort to unsubscribe, not try once and
complain.  Obviously your address makes it to the list, so you could have sent
mail to the owner alias and asked to be unsubscribed.

Anyway, I've removed your address from the list.

-- 
Randomly Generated Tagline:
"The difference between war and sex is that sex is a lot more fun ...
 I don't know if you've had sex, but it's really fantastic!"
         - Jake Johannsen, Politically Incorrect 8/10/2001

Re: I'm afraid I might have to report this list as a spam source

[Tony Finch <do...@dotat.at>]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005, gallen2@netrox.net wrote:

> You see, it does not allow me to unsubscribe.

It's ezmlm, so you can just reject all messages from the list and it will
unsubscribe you :-)

Tony.
-- 
f.a.n.finch  <do...@dotat.at>  http://dotat.at/
BISCAY: WEST 5 OR 6 BECOMING VARIABLE 3 OR 4. SHOWERS AT FIRST. MODERATE OR
GOOD.

Re: I'm afraid I might have to report this list as a spam source

["Jim C. Nasby" <de...@decibel.org>]

On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 11:58:24AM -0800, Justin Mason wrote:
> However, as an Apache project, we're hosting our lists at apache.org, and
> they get *insane* quantities of spam, viruses, and blowback -- far too
> many for the hardware to cope with, without upfront DNSBL use, apparently.
> 
> It's not our call alone -- it's up to the ASF infrastructure volunteers.
> We can *ask* them nicely, but considering we get it for free, it's
> their call.

Sounds to me what's needed is a sort of 'SA-uberfast' that can be used
as an MTA filter. For starters, this would allow for polling multiple
RBLs instead of filtering on the results of just one. (Yes, I know you
can poll multiple ones now, but the point is if you show up in any of
them you get dropped. This we each RBL could be assigned a weight, and
you only drop email based on total score).

Hmm.. there's other tests that could be done quickly as well; checking
for matching reverse DNS, for example.

And having a score of some kind available, you could also decide how to
handle the email based on the score. If the score is low, let the email
right in. If it's medium, greylist it. If it's high, drop it completely.

The one issue I can think of is this would have to perform better than a
full-blown SA check does. If much of SA's time is spent doing things
like BAYES checks then hopefully that wouldn't be an issue.
-- 
Jim C. Nasby, Database Architect                decibel@decibel.org 
Give your computer some brain candy! www.distributed.net Team #1828

Windows: "Where do you want to go today?"
Linux: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
FreeBSD: "Are you guys coming, or what?"

Re: I'm afraid I might have to report this list as a spam source

["Jim C. Nasby" <de...@decibel.org>]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 08:55:21PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 December 2005 18:59, gallen2@netrox.net wrote:
> >You see, it does not allow me to unsubscribe.
> >
> >Some goofball running the SA list (or a server front-end for the
> > list) decided to 100% block on incoming email to the list with the
> > SORBS dynamic IP list (which is high false positives).
> >
> >Now, the problem is, and what makes this list now a spam source, is
> > that I have no way to unsubscribe my email account that was allowed
> > to sign up to the list months ago, but is now not worthy to post
> > with.
> 
> Ahh, but you just did, or didn't you consider that?

Did anyone bother to read the email? He states that he's mailing from
another account.

BTW, this email is a great example of why it's a horrible idea to filter
mail based on an RBL. It's surprising to me that the SA lists aren't
just run through SA. Spam making it past that is a good indication of
where SA could be improved afterall.
-- 
Jim C. Nasby, Database Architect                decibel@decibel.org 
Give your computer some brain candy! www.distributed.net Team #1828

Windows: "Where do you want to go today?"
Linux: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
FreeBSD: "Are you guys coming, or what?"

Re: I'm afraid I might have to report this list as a spam source

[Gene Heskett <ge...@verizon.net>]

On Wednesday 21 December 2005 18:59, gallen2@netrox.net wrote:
>You see, it does not allow me to unsubscribe.
>
>Some goofball running the SA list (or a server front-end for the
> list) decided to 100% block on incoming email to the list with the
> SORBS dynamic IP list (which is high false positives).
>
>Now, the problem is, and what makes this list now a spam source, is
> that I have no way to unsubscribe my email account that was allowed
> to sign up to the list months ago, but is now not worthy to post
> with.

Ahh, but you just did, or didn't you consider that?

>I am using a standard fixed IP address business class DSL (paid extra
> for it), as more and more small companies are doing these days. I
> follow all the rules, and I am not black listed for spamming anyone.
>
>Now it would seem intuitive to me that an SA list would have more
> trust in the SA program to tag or block spammers that to rely on a
> high false positive dynamic IP list for 100% blocking, but I guess
> maybe I expect too much from SA list these days? Maybe I got lucky
> setting my SA up to block nearly 100% of spam but the list owners
> (or someone) can't figure out how to use it.
>
>So, here is my dilemma. I can't unsubscribe from the other account
> (this list has it blocked as I described), and there is no alternate
> method presented in the emails from the list (such as a weblink to
> opt-out).
>
>So, I feel in all good conscience I must now report this list as a
> ‘spam source’.
>
>If you sign up to a list that won't let you unsubscribe, isn't that
> one of the key indicators of spam? I know that will get you a block
> at most all major ISP systems these days real quick, which would
> probably be hard to get off of.
>
>What do others think?
>
>SA list spam source now?
>
>Thanks...

No, and the last time I looked, there was indeed a web page where you 
can handle this.  However, I also think it will send you a message at 
that subscriptions address asking for confirmation of the unsub.  That 
must be returned, and usually all you have to do is hit the reply 
button, then send it.  If thats being filtered, then I'd assume the 
list manager will have to intervene.

But I don't think your coming in here with threats is going to be very 
well received.  Goto <http://spamdassassin.apache.org> and you should 
be able to find an address that will take care of your 'problem'.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
People having trouble with vz bouncing email to me should add the word
'online' between the 'verizon', and the dot which bypasses vz's
stupid bounce rules.  I do use spamassassin too. :-)
Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above
message by Gene Heskett are:
Copyright 2005 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.