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Posted to user@lenya.apache.org by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> on 2005/04/19 18:06:55 UTC
URL space/scheme of default publication
Hi
I finally remember why I dislike the URL space/scheme of the default
publication.
It's because of linking resp. the parent always needs to be specified.
Let me make an example (it currently works as follows):
developers.html (developers/index_LANG.xml)
developers/andreas.html (developers/andreas/index_LANG.xml)
developers/edith.html (developers/edith/index_LANG.xml)
...
so if you want to make links to the developers from the overview
(developers.html) to then one needs to specify the developers "dir" as
follows:
<a href="developers/andreas.html">...
<a href="developers/edith.html">...
instead which would be nice
<a href="andreas/">...
<a href="edith/">...
This leads to all kind of overhead and confusion.
I think we should change the default behaviour of the default publication.
I also post this to the user list (instead dev list), because I think
it's important that the users give some feedback on this as well.
So WDYT?
Thanks
Michi
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: URL space/scheme of default publication
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I finally remember why I dislike the URL space/scheme of the default
>> publication.
>>
>> It's because of linking resp. the parent always needs to be specified.
>>
>> Let me make an example (it currently works as follows):
>>
>> developers.html (developers/index_LANG.xml)
>> developers/andreas.html (developers/andreas/index_LANG.xml)
>> developers/edith.html (developers/edith/index_LANG.xml)
>
>
> did you really mean to leave out the language on the left?
no, that's a typo (resp. the default language), but this is the
description how it currently works, not how I think it should be. Any
comments re the rest of my email?
Michi
>
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--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: URL space/scheme of default publication
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Hi
>
> I finally remember why I dislike the URL space/scheme of the default
> publication.
>
> It's because of linking resp. the parent always needs to be specified.
>
> Let me make an example (it currently works as follows):
>
> developers.html (developers/index_LANG.xml)
> developers/andreas.html (developers/andreas/index_LANG.xml)
> developers/edith.html (developers/edith/index_LANG.xml)
did you really mean to leave out the language on the left?
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Re: URL space/scheme of default publication
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Dave Sunerton-Burl wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> ...so if you want to make links to the developers from the overview
>> (developers.html) to then one needs to specify the developers "dir"
>> as follows:
>>
>> <a href="developers/andreas.html">...
>> <a href="developers/edith.html">...
>>
>> instead which would be nice
>>
>> <a href="andreas/">...
>> <a href="edith/">...
>>
>
> I would like to see an easier method for putting in links generally (in
> the form based editor) where the <a> tag isn't used at all - just a link
> based on the document id, e.g. (in a paragraph tag)
>
> This is a <linkto documentId="andreas">neat link</linkto>.
>
> I know this breaks the XHTML spec for the default pub,
no, it doesn't break if we are going to use a different namespace
> but it is a good
> example of how to use XML to make your content easier to manage. It
> would also prevent broken links if the target page gets moved.
yes, we definitely need a centralized link management (also because
of performance resp. scalability).
But this is worth another thread and actually this thread is not about
the links ;-)
Michi
>
> I was going to try and implement something like this (I suspect, being a
> Coccon app, that this can be done with very few, if any, changes) but
> unfortunately ran out of time :(
>
> Dave S-B
>
>
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--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: URL space/scheme of default publication
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Dave Sunerton-Burl wrote:
> I would like to see an easier method for putting in links generally (in
> the form based editor) where the <a> tag isn't used at all - just a link
> based on the document id, e.g. (in a paragraph tag)
> This is a <linkto documentId="andreas">neat link</linkto>.
or even easier, integrate the link popup that we already have for bxe. i
don't think adding new link syntax is very user friendly.
> I know this breaks the XHTML spec for the default pub, but it is a good
> example of how to use XML to make your content easier to manage. It
> would also prevent broken links if the target page gets moved.
true. lenya currently does not enforce unique document ids, which you'd
need for that to work, unless you have a site tree to pick the link
from, and the internal link could be a uuid or something.
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Re: URL space/scheme of default publication
Posted by Dave Sunerton-Burl <da...@lledr-solutions.co.uk>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> ...so if you want to make links to the developers from the overview
> (developers.html) to then one needs to specify the developers "dir" as
> follows:
>
> <a href="developers/andreas.html">...
> <a href="developers/edith.html">...
>
> instead which would be nice
>
> <a href="andreas/">...
> <a href="edith/">...
>
I would like to see an easier method for putting in links generally (in
the form based editor) where the <a> tag isn't used at all - just a link
based on the document id, e.g. (in a paragraph tag)
This is a <linkto documentId="andreas">neat link</linkto>.
I know this breaks the XHTML spec for the default pub, but it is a good
example of how to use XML to make your content easier to manage. It
would also prevent broken links if the target page gets moved.
I was going to try and implement something like this (I suspect, being a
Coccon app, that this can be done with very few, if any, changes) but
unfortunately ran out of time :(
Dave S-B
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Re: URL space/scheme of default publication
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> or another one which can often be seen
>>
>> developers/andreas/index.html
>> it/developers/andreas/index.html
>> de/developers/andreas/index.html
>
>
> -1
>
> sites that have this structure make it unnecessarily hard to switch
> between languages by duplicating the whole site structure
I don't fully understand what you mean ...
>
>
>> maybe it would make sense to write down the pros and cons of the
>> various schemes
>> as the default and then decide.
>
>
> sure
I will do that within the Wiki
>
>> But it seems to me that the current version is the one which makes
>> least sense
>> (at least compared with the ones above)
>
>
> i disagree. unfortunately, we did not write down our design discussion
> at the time (early 2003), but i recall that we specifically decided
> against the 'language selection at the site root'
language selection at the root is just one possibility if have listed.
What about the others?
Well, let's list the pros and cons on the Wiki and take the discussion
from there.
Michi
>
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--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: URL space/scheme of default publication
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> or another one which can often be seen
>
> developers/andreas/index.html
> it/developers/andreas/index.html
> de/developers/andreas/index.html
-1
sites that have this structure make it unnecessarily hard to switch
between languages by duplicating the whole site structure
> maybe it would make sense to write down the pros and cons of the various
> schemes
> as the default and then decide.
sure
> But it seems to me that the current version is the one which makes least
> sense
> (at least compared with the ones above)
i disagree. unfortunately, we did not write down our design discussion
at the time (early 2003), but i recall that we specifically decided
against the 'language selection at the site root'
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Re: URL space/scheme of default publication
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> <a href="developers/andreas.html">...
>> <a href="developers/edith.html">...
>>
>> instead which would be nice
>>
>> <a href="andreas/">...
>> <a href="edith/">...
>
>
> i guess you mean
>
> developers/andreas/ maps to developers/andreas/index.xml
> developers/andreas_it/ maps to developers/andreas/index_it.xml
> developers/andreas_de/ maps to developers/andreas/index_de.xml
that would be one possibilty. Another one would be
developers/andreas/ resp. developers/andreas/index.html resp.
index_en.html if en is default
developers/andreas/index_it.html
developers/andreas/index_de.html
or another one which can often be seen
developers/andreas/index.html
it/developers/andreas/index.html
de/developers/andreas/index.html
whereas the internal representation could of course always be the same
as you noted above
>
> i think it is important to keep the language versions together in one
> directory.
>
> there is a patch for this:
>
> http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25009
>
> there are some concerns around such a scheme that we'd need to
> research, see the zilla entry for details.
maybe it would make sense to write down the pros and cons of the various
schemes
as the default and then decide.
But it seems to me that the current version is the one which makes least
sense
(at least compared with the ones above)
Michi
>
>
> -gregor
>
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--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: URL space/scheme of default publication
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> <a href="developers/andreas.html">...
> <a href="developers/edith.html">...
>
> instead which would be nice
>
> <a href="andreas/">...
> <a href="edith/">...
i guess you mean
developers/andreas/ maps to developers/andreas/index.xml
developers/andreas_it/ maps to developers/andreas/index_it.xml
developers/andreas_de/ maps to developers/andreas/index_de.xml
i think it is important to keep the language versions together in one
directory.
there is a patch for this:
http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25009
there are some concerns around such a scheme that we'd need to research,
see the zilla entry for details.
-gregor
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