os-windows/3988: Apache 1.3.4 will not operate in Win95

[Brian Costner <bc...@emeraldnet.net>]

>Number:         3988
>Category:       os-windows
>Synopsis:       Apache 1.3.4 will not operate in Win95
>Confidential:   no
>Severity:       critical
>Priority:       medium
>Responsible:    apache
>State:          open
>Class:          sw-bug
>Submitter-Id:   apache
>Arrival-Date:   Wed Mar  3 05:50:01 PST 1999
>Last-Modified:
>Originator:     bcostner@emeraldnet.net
>Organization:
apache
>Release:        1.3.4
>Environment:
Win95 4.00.950 B
>Description:
I have installed Apache 1.3.4 three times in Win95. Each time, when I click "Apache Server" on the Start menu, a DOS window opens, about one sentence is printed on the screen, and the DOS window closes well before I can read even the first word. I've tried running Apache several times after each install. Always the same result.


Before my last install, I searched the bug database and found reference from an earlier to the need to rename the extension of .conf files. So, I installed and checked all the .conf files. Only highperformance.conf appeared to need a change. I made the change and started Apache. Same result as above.


Another thing I noticed. I did the first install to Program Files/Apache. When the installation was complete, I got a message saying the computer needed to be restarted. I restarted it. Apache didn't work. I uninstalled and was pleasantly surprised to find that the entire Apache directory had been removed. I made the second installation to Apache's default (Program Files/Apache Group/Apache). This time, at the end of the installation process, I got a screen asking me whether I want to view the readme file and a "Finish" button. This screen did not appear after the first install. There was no indication of a need to restart the computer. When I uninstalled the second installation, the directory was not deleted. I did the third installation to Program Files/Apache and this time got the readme file/finish screen as in the second installation. I've not yet uninstalled this set up.
>How-To-Repeat:

>Fix:
No
>Audit-Trail:
>Unformatted:
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Re: os-windows/3988: Apache 1.3.4 will not operate in Win95

[Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com>]

bhyde@pobox.com wrote:
> 
> Oh! we should send Mr. Costner a thank you.

No-one has, yet.  At least not in the PR..  If this has been
truly fixed in 1.3.6, we should definitely credit him for
providing key information.
-- 
#ken	P-)}

Ken Coar                    <http://Web.Golux.Com/coar/>
Apache Group member         <http://www.apache.org/>
"Apache Server for Dummies" <http://Web.Golux.Com/coar/ASFD/>

Re: os-windows/3988: Apache 1.3.4 will not operate in Win95

[Paul Sutton <pa...@awe.com>]

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 bhyde@pobox.com wrote:
> Oh! we should send Mr. Costner a thank you.

Indeed. Let's fix the problem (see below) and test it, then let him know
it was his information that solved it for us.

> Now I believe this is install shield announcing that it has to
> modify
>  (1) the OS DLL directory, either because 
>   (a) MSVCRT.dll is
>      - just arrived for the first time
>      - newer
>      - older?
>   (b) XXXX.dll possibly some organ of install shield?
>  (2) something else triggered it that we don't understand
>     - first uninstallable piece of software.
> 
> The absense of the do you want to read the readme means
> "all bets are off"... what else "didn't happen"?
> 
> If it is case 1a then maybe we just don't know how to
> modify the OS DLL directory in a manner that lets Install
> Shield wait to tell the user to reboot, and if we had
> that right the "didn't happen" would "happen".

Ah yes, that's it. If the IS reboot prompt does the reboot before
displaying the final prompt ("Do you want to read the README") then IS
probably isn't even attempting to run the install DLL which is triggered
by that final README prompt. So we have to run the DLL slightly earlier,
but after the files have been installed. I haven't got IS here to see if
there is an opportunity to run the DLL earlier. I'll check tomorrow.

> > > I restarted it. Apache
> > > didn't work. 
> 
> This only makes sense if:
>  (a) the user was confused (seems unlikely)
>  (b) other things "didn't happen".
> 
> > > I uninstalled and was pleasantly surprised to find that
> > > the entire Apache directory had been removed. 
> 
> That's nice, but... 

The word "entire" is the clue here: if the install DLL runs it creates the
conf files, which since they are not installed by the installer are *not*
removed by the uninstaller. Since he says everything is removed, the DLL
can't have been run. And he tied this behaviour up nicely with the
rebooting.

> > > When I uninstalled
> > > the second installation, the directory was not deleted. 
> 
> He doesn't mention if it worked at this point, let's assume it did?  The
> uninstall not removing the directory is bug - presumably unrelated to the
> reboot/no-workie syndrome mystery.

No, it is a feature -- really. The conf files have been configured by the
install DLL and may have been later updated by the user, so uninstall
doesn't remove them (ditto for whatever is in htdocs, cgi-bin, etc, though
I think it does remove the log files). Of course if Apache was a real
Windows application it would probably have some sort of extension
"uninstall" DLL to prompt and the actually remove these extra files... (if
IS can trigger a DLL during the uninstall process, of course). Maybe once
we've got the installer working properly we can think about that (or about
a decent upgrade process).
 
Paul

Re: os-windows/3988: Apache 1.3.4 will not operate in Win95

[bh...@pobox.com]

Oh! we should send Mr. Costner a thank you.

Paul Sutton writes:
> On 3 Mar 1999, Brian Costner wrote:
> > >Number:         3988
> > >Category:       os-windows
> > >Synopsis:       Apache 1.3.4 will not operate in Win95
> 
> > Another thing I noticed. I did the first install to Program
> > Files/Apache. When the installation was complete, I got a message
> > saying the computer needed to be restarted. 

Now I believe this is install shield announcing that it has to
modify
 (1) the OS DLL directory, either because 
  (a) MSVCRT.dll is
     - just arrived for the first time
     - newer
     - older?
  (b) XXXX.dll possibly some organ of install shield?
 (2) something else triggered it that we don't understand
    - first uninstallable piece of software.

The absense of the do you want to read the readme means
"all bets are off"... what else "didn't happen"?

If it is case 1a then maybe we just don't know how to
modify the OS DLL directory in a manner that lets Install
Shield wait to tell the user to reboot, and if we had
that right the "didn't happen" would "happen".

> > I restarted it. Apache
> > didn't work. 

This only makes sense if:
 (a) the user was confused (seems unlikely)
 (b) other things "didn't happen".

> > I uninstalled and was pleasantly surprised to find that
> > the entire Apache directory had been removed. 

That's nice, but... 

> > I made the second
> > installation to Apache's default (Program Files/Apache Group/Apache).
> > This time, at the end of the installation process, I got a screen
> > asking me whether I want to view the readme file and a "Finish"
> > button.  This screen did not appear after the first install. There was
> > no indication of a need to restart the computer. 

... apparently it didn't undo what ever state
the first install tripped.  Such is life, persumably he now has
our "better" MSVCRT.

> > When I uninstalled
> > the second installation, the directory was not deleted. 

He doesn't mention if it worked at this point, let's assume it did?  The
uninstall not removing the directory is bug - presumably unrelated to the
reboot/no-workie syndrome mystery.

> > I did the
> > third installation to Program Files/Apache and this time got the
> > readme file/finish screen as in the second installation. I've not yet
> > uninstalled this set up. 

Again he doesn't mention if it worked, lets assume it did?

> Ah, finally, an excellently detailed description of what happens when the
> DLL doesn't run. 

> Looks like it doesn't run when the installer asks for a
> reboot, 

yes.

> which occurs when MSVCRT.DLL is installed or upgraded. 

presumably?

> Maybe
> the instal DLL requires MSVCRT.DLL to be available.

Maybe install shield needed it or even something else, say
an uninstaller fragment dll?

> It shouldn't, since
> it should be linked against the non-DLL runtime (that is, with /MT not
> /MD).

yes.

> Anyway I would guess that putting MSVCRT.DLL into the Apache install
> directory (where both Apache.exe and install.dll live) would fix both
> problems: allowing the DLL to work and not requiring the user to reboot.

Sigh, yes that's probably best.  

I'm concerned that MSVCRT will be using undocumented O/S APIs and
that having two variations alive on the machine will create yet 
other surprises.  This platform makes for too much superstitious
behavior.

> Paul

  - ben

Re: os-windows/3988: Apache 1.3.4 will not operate in Win95

[Paul Sutton <pa...@awe.com>]

On 3 Mar 1999, Brian Costner wrote:
> >Number:         3988
> >Category:       os-windows
> >Synopsis:       Apache 1.3.4 will not operate in Win95

> Another thing I noticed. I did the first install to Program
> Files/Apache. When the installation was complete, I got a message
> saying the computer needed to be restarted. I restarted it. Apache
> didn't work. I uninstalled and was pleasantly surprised to find that
> the entire Apache directory had been removed. I made the second
> installation to Apache's default (Program Files/Apache Group/Apache).
> This time, at the end of the installation process, I got a screen
> asking me whether I want to view the readme file and a "Finish"
> button. This screen did not appear after the first install. There was
> no indication of a need to restart the computer. When I uninstalled
> the second installation, the directory was not deleted. I did the
> third installation to Program Files/Apache and this time got the
> readme file/finish screen as in the second installation. I've not yet
> uninstalled this set up. 

Ah, finally, an excellently detailed description of what happens when the
DLL doesn't run. Looks like it doesn't run when the installer asks for a
reboot, which occurs when MSVCRT.DLL is installed or upgraded. Maybe
the instal DLL requires MSVCRT.DLL to be available. It shouldn't, since
it should be linked against the non-DLL runtime (that is, with /MT not
/MD). 

Anyway I would guess that putting MSVCRT.DLL into the Apache install
directory (where both Apache.exe and install.dll live) would fix both
problems: allowing the DLL to work and not requiring the user to reboot.

Paul